ST. MARY'S INDUSTRIAL SCHOOL, STOKE.

ROYAL. COMMISSION OF ENQUIRY. The Commission resumed at half -past ten o'clock yesterday.: , , . Mr Hogben asked leaved o. recall Mr Pope to explain certain statements in his evidence as reported in the Press. It had been stated that the Government had nothing to do with those inmates for whom the Charitable Aid Boards paid. The correct version was that the Department had nothing to do with the payment of those particular boys, but apart from this exercised exactly the same control over them as over boys paid foi' direct by the Government. Another point was . with regard to the age at which payment ceased. In the desire to shorten evidence this point had not been quite clearly set out. All boys committed prior to Ist January, 1893, were paid for by the Government up to the age of fifteen years. In the cases of boys committed since the Ist January, 1893, the Government paid up to the age of fourteen only, except in a few cases where the circumstances were exceptional, and so reported by the manager of an institution, when pay' ment was made up to the age of fifteen. Mr Pope, recalled, gave evidence upon the points mentioned by Air Hogben, and stated that the cases where boys committed since Ist January, 1893, were maintained to the age of 15 by the Government were those where the manager of an institution reported that through vicious habits, physical deformity, or other causes the boys were not suitable for placing out at service. The Department, however, considered each case upon its merits, and if it was seen fit payment was allowed up to the age of fifteen. By Mr Harley ; The maintenance of James Maher was chargeable to the Wellington Charitable Aid Board, and the boy James was committed before the first January 1893 ; tbe rule of payment ceasing at fourteen years of age did not apply to boys maintained by Charitable Aid Boards, as the Department interpreted the law to provide that the Boards were chargeable with maintenance as long as the inmate was maintained at the institution ; the boy Moore was, he thought, committed under Section 19 of the Act. Mr Pell then commencad his address on behalf of the management in reply to the complaints made. He pointed out that the whole matter was a serious one for the management of the School, and one of interest to the country at large, therefore this boing the first opportunity afforded ., the management to reply to the charges made, he would make no excuse if his remarks were lengthy, and \yould in as few words as possible give a history of the institution affected. Mr Wardell told Mir Pell that he need feel no hesitancy, but proceed. Mr Fell then acknowledged that his task hadbsen greatly lightened by the reasonable and moderate manner in which Mr Harley had brought before the Commissioners his side of the matter, and hoped to emulate his example in that respect. Proceeding, he said that in 1872, the late Father Garin, finding that no sort of refuge for Roman Catholic destitute children existed, applied to the Provincial Government, to find" out whether the same provision would be made for the destitute children of that denomination as for the children of other denominations, or of no denomination at; all. He found that a grant of 7s per week per child would be made, and on 7th Feptember, 1872, the Orphanage was gazetted, Mr Curtis then being Superintendent. In 1878, the prospects of the success of the Home appeared so wide, that a property opposite the church in Manuka-Street was purchased, at a cost of £800, 'and a cottage erected, at a further cost of £300. In 1881, the Nelson Provincial Orphanage had blossomed into an Industrial School, and £450 was spent upon additional buildings. The School: grew in numbers and importance, till it became generally recognised that it was not ' suitably situated in the centre of the town to fulfil its proper mission, and upon the advice of Sir Robert Stout, Dean Mahoney resolved to shift into the country;. He purchased a property at Stoke of 375 acres for" £2,800, in abundant faith of the aid which he would receive from co-religioni3ts and the general public; The success of the institution was assured, and in 1886 buildings costing £3600 were, erected, the original plan not being completed, however, till 10 years afterwards at a cost of another £1,000. It being desirable for the education of the boys in farming to increase the area of land, in 1895 Trolove's farm af 300 acres was acquired at a cost of £2,400." It had to beremembered that the land was mostly in the rough, and the expenditure on clearing, draining, fencing, etc., was considerable, but no account of this was taken in stating that, including £500 spent in stable 3 and necessary outbuildings, the land and buildings had from first to last cost £10,300, apart also from the costx>f Tip-keep. At-the outset a woman bad been employed in charge of the children, but as the institution 'grew a manager and wife with attendants 'was installed, and 'some time after its removal to Stoke ..this;::administration was in force, but proved uneuccessful. It liad, he believed; been the intention of the late Father-Garin that the Marist Brothers should manage the. School,

but in any casein 1890 Archbishop Redwood applied to Sydney; .the Australasian headquarters of the Maries Brotherhood (Little Brothers of Mary), the headquarters proper being in France. The Society was a large and important one engaged in the I work of teaching in all parts of the world. Finally arrangements were made under ! which the whole control of the place should be in the hands of the Marist Brothers. Dean Mahoney had been appointed legal manager of the school in 1886 and held the position ever since, the School was the great j work of his life, and for 13 years, including I the time he Was associatid with Father Garinj |he controlled the institution and devoted himself to it. ' From the time the Maiist Brothers took charge the real control passed [from his hands, though, by the ties of affection and religion, he still maintained a strong moral hold upon the government of the School, and was of course legal manager, j I Practically control was held by the Brothers and Dean Mahoney gradually relinquished | the datieS of chajjlain to his curates, arid at ' present Father George Mahoney, generally known as Father George, was chaplain. He thought that any man might justly be proud of building up such an institution as Dean Mahoney had done. (The 'Gazette' appointment of Dean Mahoney as manager I is dated sth November, 1884.) The Marist Brothers were not in; religious orders, but were vowed to celebacy and poverty, andj the only payment in any shape or form re- j ;ceived by those Brothers laboring at Stoke was the annual payment to Sydney of £15 ior each Brother in Return for which all the .clothing worn by ithe Brothers was supplied. ;He mentioned this as he had been informed cthatit was not uncommonly supposed that improprieties had been committed in connection with the Sehoolj and the money sent to the Marist Brotherhood outside the place,,-, MtFell having again referred to the eminently fair manner in which Mr Harley had conducted his case, went on to give particulars of the receipts and expenditure in connection with the Stoke ' Ihspitutioni; fturirig' > the past twd years the receipts had been: From Government, £2,504 185; from Charitable Aid Boards, £1,567 17s ; sale of skins* and wool, £350 11s; sale of hops, £409 13s 3d ; rent, £21 145 ; paid by visiting Marist Brothers as board during their religious retreat at Christmas, £90, Total, £4,944 13s 3d. This was cash, no account being taken of produce raised for the Orphanage. Full details of expenditure would be supplied by witnesses he would call, but he might mention that there were existing mortgages amounting to £5,000 at .6 per dentj and rates insurances and interest amounted to £697 10s for the period. The total expenditure was £4421 12s, and the balance £523 Isj3d was banked, and required to meet expenses as they fell due. Coming to the specific charges made by the Charitable Aid Board, Mr Fell referred first, to that that unmarried men were alone employed in the conduct of the School. It was a fact; but both systems had been tried in connection with St. Maryland the women assisting system found wanting. He did not offer any* suggestion which was the better, but in that particular case the change would mean a revolution which could not be thought of. For years past, Dean Mahoney said, the Brothers had done all in their -power to get anybody to take an interest in the institution, to visit it whenever they chose, without invitation and without preparation, at any reasonable hour.. Unfortunately, She invitations had not been responded to, flo doubt, as few people could spare the time to go so far away, from town frequently, and the result was.^ that visits were only made on special occasions. This had been a matter of regret to the Brothers, and also of substantial loss to them. He had to suggest that it would be with the greatest pleasure that Dean Mahoney and the Brothers would accept the appointment of official visitors, such as were appointed to the Lunatic Asylums, with power 4o visit the School when they pleased, and that both males and females be appointed; If this v/as done, one reproach Upon the institution would be removed. Replying to Mr Wardell, at this stage, Mr Fell said that boys were kept in charge of the Sisters of Mercy in Nelson, till they were nine or 10 years of age, then they were removed to Stoke. The School was technically one, but the girls,, with the younger boys, were kept in Nelson and controlled entirely by the Sisters, and there were at present thirty young boys under their charge. Mr Fell, continuing, said if anyvcbange regarding the age of drafting was required by the Education Department, the wishes would be readily met, • With regard to the complaint of boys being buried on the grounds, Mr Fell said that on the 12th of March, 1890, Dean Mahoney applied for a Roman Catholic cemetery to be sanctioned, and after the area had, at the suggestion of the Colonial Secretary, been increased from one to five acres, the late Sir Harry Atkinson gave his consent the following month, and it was duly gazetted and advertised in the local papars. There was no Roman Catholic section in the Richmond Cemetery, and Nelson and Appleby were the nearest burial grounds. As a matter of fact, several settlers, as well as the boys who had died at the School, were buried in the cemetery. .. With regard to the complaint that the School, stood- on: a different footing with regard to inspection and regulation to Government schools, Mr Fell said that if St. Mary's School could be brought into line with the Government schools, the management would be glad of it; they would be [ glad to have the assistance of Mr Hogben, as had Burnham, and had they been in in that position in the past, no complaint would have arisen ; they would be glad -oi similar inspection and similar control to that of the Government, schools. Regarding the complaint on the ground of punishment inflicted, Mr Fell said that it had to be borne in mind that maintenance of order among boys, of the class of those at St Mary's, was a matter of extreme difficulty, requiring the utmost good temper and skill. The Brothers were mortals only, and he claimed for them excuse to the extent that other mortals would be excused in similar circumstances. The evidence had been given with reasonable fairness, and that the" Brothers in the course of years had failed in restraint on occasions, he had no doubt, but some allowance had to be made for youthful exaggeration; The Brothers did not consider themselves bound by the" regulations > for Government schools, %rid : tried tb° govern by reasonable rules of their own. If they had been under the same supervision as the' Government schools, they would have been greatly helped hrtheir treatment of the boys, for it was; natural, that if a man in uncontrolled charge of children once lost restraint of his temper, his Tesißtance of his infirmity of temper would be weakened in the future. If all punishments had to be entered down in a book and submitted to the scrutiny of such a man as Mr Hogben, it must have] a-:beneficial,effeefc.a i: ; :/ ■= ;■ ■ : ].- : Mr Wardell asked. if he understood rightly! that if St. Mary's was put under the same rules as , the,^Government schools the management would gladly accept the change? r -Mr Fell, eaid^that this was so, and, continuing, said that if the chastisement attributed to Brother Kilian ooeured, he was undoubtedly a man not fit to be in his position, and he said this under direct instruction from the Brothers. Probably the extent of the punishment, t .inflicted: by ! Brother Kilian had .been., exaggerated, but ! his conduct was improper, and as long ago as Christmas Brother Kilian had asked to berelieyed of h's duties, believing that "he was not suited for the work. That he had not been relieved was due to all such mat-, tera having to be submitted; to. Sydney. ,His:OWJtv opinion^ twas -that; the local head should Ihave power to suspend in such cases, but he could do so only for gross breaches oi good.ponduct. > ' ! ' Mr" Bush said '" that the local manager should have the power to say that a Brother was unfit for hia position and suspend him. .

Mr F*llVu thai this was so, but the Brothers wmT not seitants. , Mr WafclST said they were not concerned -with the religious view ; ai Commissioners ; they had to take a practical view of the matter. . Mr Fell then referred to the good qualities of Dean Mahoney, to the high esteem in which" he was generally held as one of the Kindliest of riisn, a light in which he was also looked upon by the briys at the Schooh Dean Mahoney, he said, had been ignorant of the punishments inflicted, except where he had occasionally been consulted, and given priestly admonition. Of the confine^ ment in cells, he was completely in ignoran3e, and Brother Loetus would assume the 3 responsibility for that. Personally he (Mr Fell) did not agree with that form of punishment. When the building was _ erected certain rooms in the south-east portion were intended for the manager's family; one of these was sub-divided into three, with the intention of being used for cells for seclusion, as it was tenried. . . ■, Mr Bush pointed out that each of these' rooms (the group of three) had bolts and padlocks to the door. Mr Fell said the rooms were never used as cells as the sun never reached them, and it was found too cold, and the Brothers themselves fixed up the lower and f stairs cells where Maher and James were found; The window in the latter cell not allowing sufficient exclusion was boarded up. Bro; Loetus found that some means of repression were necessary and this was the means adopted, and as a matter of fact the" boys cared less for the punishment of the cells than being required to do extra lessons. The most severe punishment the boys could have was to be, kept from farifl workj and made to do lessons in the morning. Mr Bush said it was ft pity that this was not adopted in preference to the cell punishment, „•■•• Mr Fell , continuing, said that the cells were, puiled;do\yn after the Board's visit in keeping with the desire to nleet the wiaheg of the Board, though it had been made a matter of reproach. The boy Skelton was particularly, referred to, and Mr Fell detailed how [the. -.boy- had been kept about two - months waiting til Burnham was ready to receive him, he having been committed there at the Supreme Court. With regard to the punishment on the hands, that was the form approved by the Brotherhood, and no evidence had been given of any ferocity in that* Upon the question of food he contended that the food was ample in quantity, and quality, though perhaps not sufficiently varied in the style of being dressed or served. They not only had mutton; but beef; poultry; and even venison: was" flofc in^ frequently served, also there was plenty of vegetables, and altogether the boys had as good food as was possible to be given and as. much as reasonably could be required. The conditions of the boys he contended was proof of this. With regard to the clothing, the materials were of the best,, the cloth beingspecially imported from France, as Was also this linen used for shirts. The best proof of the sufficiency of the clothing was the, fact that there was not a case of phthisis or pulmonary complaint among the boys. Mr Fell shortly referred to the hill work being looked on by, the boys as more, of a jollification than anything else, and, in conclusion, spoke of his being aware that the ultimate court of appeal in the matter was the public, and gave his assurance that the authorities of St. Mary's, were determined to satisfy any reasonable demands of the public. He claimed he would be able to show that the boys were, in the main, well treated by the Brothers, who were* as a whole, kindly men; that the relations between the Brothers and boys* as a : whole, were kindly. As far as tho enquiry was concerned, it was welcomed as a means of removing misunderstandings and misconstructions. Mr Fell then* at 1,2.30, intimated that he was ready to call evidence. „-. ... Mr Wardell said that the Commissioners had reason for thinking it not desirable to call evidence then, and the Commission adjourned till 2.30. „■ On resuming at 2.30 Mr Fell began to call his evidenoe stating that he could not well call his witnessed in logical order as he had the baker and members of the school staff whom he could not delay. He called Charles Parnham, whose name in religion is Brother Cuthbert, stated that he was a member of the , Marist Brotherhood, and had been at Stoke since January 1896 ; in the mornings he was employed on the farm, in the evening was engaged as a teacher j the farm work waß very varied J during the past two years was at the hill work with boys on the following days J 11th November. 1898, September Bth.and 15th, and Octobar 13th, 1899, April 11th and 26th, 1900, and on the 28th April last made a trip once up and down with 16 boys ; the boys might have gone up 2or 3 times with Brother Damien ; as a rule 80 or 90 boys went with him each time; was not accompanied by anyone but himself ; the boys were told the night before of a hill expedition, and food would be got ready and packed ; it was. looked upon as a picnic by the boys J weather permitting would start at about 8 o'clock, after breakfast ; the boys a3 a whole, preceded witness ; the quickest climb he had made with the boys was one hour ; the boys had names for various stopping places; the first, 24 chains from the cricket ground, was known as the boundury fence ; thence to the first manuka was 18 chains; thence to the " cabstand " was ten chains ; and thence to the highest point was 44 chains, making 96 chains from' the cricket ground to the top ; arrived at the top the boys were taken down on the other side to Norgate's felled bush where there were split posts; the greatest distance the posts would be brought was 23 chains, and the shortest ten chains ; the posts were ordinary fencing posts ; if a boy could not carry a post by himself the number of boys was increased to as many as four ; witness mixed among the boys ; there was no ruxe that so many posts should be brought up ; the posts were carried up in short stages, a heap, being made in one spot and shifted onward in stages; would work from half past nine till noon ; would then have dinner; dinner consisted of bread, honey, jam, or dripping, and hot tea; after dinner the boys had an hour to run around and amuse themselves ; would then continue work till four o'clock ; would } arrange so: that by that time a post for each bey was on the top of the hill ;, a staple would be put in each post and flax attached and the boys would drag the posts down; a lay teacher who accompanied witness preceded the boys by about- fifteen minutes, and the boys then, started, each boy dragging a post ; the work was not hard; took about 20 minutes to go down the hill ; boys seemed to enjoy it; witness was the last to leave the top ; the lay teacher kept order as the boys assembled at the foot of the hill ; this was the class of work done on all the dates mentioned except November 11th and April 28th ; on the latter date the boys (16; went up the hill, and each brought down a post, no post being got from more than 10 chains from the top on the other side ; that was the only trip made that day; j on November 11th the boys fetched a post from the top to the boundary fence, .and then returned to the top and brought a post the, whole way down, equal to a trip and a half; boys never made three or four trips in a day from top to bottom ; never heard any complaints of the severity of the work; they did the work willingly ; selected the boys himself according to age and size; there may have been one or two under eleven; never went up once without having requests from boys not included to be allowed to go ; never punished any boy in connection with the bill work; been no firewood obtained from the bill during the last four or five years ; Mr Jacka supplied the firewood ; the hop-poles were brought from Poor Man's Valley. ' . ' . , By Mr Harley: It was a steep climb up the big hill; it was about as steep on the other side, where the posts where got from ; did not think it very harjl work for the boys carrying up the posts in short stages ; the boys did not work against time, and would take spells ; for- a boy to go from top to bottom of the big hill three times in a day

would be too much; had bJ|fa teacher for some years before coming to Stoke; did not have fires in the class-rooms, except that for the first and second standards, either raorniug or evening in winter } could not say whether there were fires in the firstfind !*ycrad standard' room during tne evening : had not seen them—was himself teaching in another room. Mr Bush, who had acquired a thorough knowledge of the locality, got witness to describe with more particularity where the poSfs were obtained from. Basil Mcilwairij a service-inmate licensed out to Messrs George and Albert Hunt, Wakefield, stated that he went to the School for two years, leaving sis months ago; had passed the sixth standard; had been at fflotmt Cook School, Wellington, previously; learned, algebra, shorthand, and EucliJ tit the Stole School; had been employed at farming and other work at the Sdboo! 5 had done hill work; always regarded it as amusement himself; a few of the boys did rioHllieit} they did not like work, but it was geneially regarded as a holiday. (Witness described the proceedings on the top of the hill in practically the same terms as Brother Cuthberfc.) He had never known a boy punished in connection with the hill work; had known two complete journey's from top to bottom to be made in a day, once in the morning, once in the afternoon; always had enough to eat; there was always tflentj*; oould got more for asking; somelime's there was enough waste from a meal to feed a dozen plougbitien < never heard complaints from boys of hunger J while he was there did not have a bath in winter;, but washed face, hands and feet; was always] sufficiently clothed; got new clothes for asking when old ones were worn out; used to get his socks wshed by the boys in the Washhouse when he saw fit; there was no arrangement about this; went without socks till he got his clean one 3 back ; had been 1 punished on the hands with a supplejack, I not otherwise. ' By Mr Harley: Did not have fires id ih§ class-room during winter; knew that Skelton was locked up more than once'; Maher had been locked up on one occasion previous to the last; remembered Willis, Lowe, Newman md Clements being locked up ; did not know of Moape being kicked j saw Brother Kilian saw a Maori boy named Davis with bis fist; that was the only case of the kind he had seen, though he had heard of others; had not seen the supplejack applied to the body. (Witness then described the scale of diet practically as given by former witnesses, adding that all last winter they got potato stew without meat for tea.) He was considered one of the good boys, but all the boys were treated alike. Francis Cunan said that he was an inmate for 10 years; had been baker for 2£ years on wages; had passed sixth standard ; baked five times a" Week an average of 95 loaves a day; seven or eight of the loaves would be 41b loaves, and the rest 2lb tin loaves ; the whole was consumed in the institution except what would go to the pigs; learned his trade at the School; baked cakes, &o.\ never heard of hoys complaining of shortness of food. By Mr Harley: The relations between Brother Kilian and the boys were not friendly; Brother Wybertus was not popular when he was prefect in charge of the boys, but he had ceased to Lave control of boys for over two years. Patrick Clark had been general farm hand at the School for nine years; was formerly an inmate of the Scbool; had heard boys make statements against certain Brothers, but the boys did not seem afraid of the Brothers. (Witness described the hill work.) Never knew of two trips to the top of the hill being made in one day; had shot half-a-dozen deer during the past two | years; the venison was consumed in the institution ; had seen enough food left from a meal to feed 20 more boys; this went into the waste tub. By Mr Harley: Brother Kilian was unpopular with the boys. John Naylor, master of State School at Stoke, stated that his place now adjoined the Industrial School property; formerly taught the drum and fife band at the Scbool, and had the right to take any friends to visit the place at any time ; was very often there at night and all times; observed the relations between the Brothers and the boys, and they appeared mo3t amicable; had seen a great deal of them; kept the Post Office, to which the boys came ] every day, and, altogether, had exceptional opportunities of hearing complaints from the boys, but never heard a word of the kind pas 3 the lips of the boys, though he had heard persons put questions to them ; was surprised to learn of the things he had heard lately. By Mr Harley: Had seen the boys at meals, and they seemed to enjoy what they j were eating, and it was such food as he would sit down to himself; did not knew what they had all the week round; had never seen the cell; bad been at the School eight or nine times during the last year: appeared to him. that there was very little difference between what the Brothers bad and what the boys had; he was referring to tea; the boys were not luxuriously clothed, but they were sufficiently clad. By Mr Fell; Observing what the boys at hi 3 own school usually had for dinner, he would prefer the stew at the Orphanage. James Wilfrid Marsden, Justice of the Peace, living at, Stoke; his property adjoined St. Mary's ; had been brought into frequent contact with both Brothers and boys, ever since the Orphanage was placed at Stoke; bo far as ha knew, from what he had seen of the boys working about the farm, the relations between Brothers and boys seemed to be exceedingly good and friendly; quite the contrary to anything approaching terrorism; boys did not appear to be over-worked. By Mr Harley: Had often been in the building itself. Harvey Clifton Jacka, resident at Stoke, contiguous to St. Mary's; stated that he supplied the School with firewood ; the relations between boya and Brothers seemed very good; the boys certainly were not over-worked; had not spoken to the boys much ; boys seemed to be the very reverse of being kept in terror, and ruled with a rod of iron ; went about their work singing and shouting in a happy-go-lucky style like any other boys. George Norgate, of Stoke: Owned the land over the top of the big hill where the posts were obtained from; gave the timber from which the posts were split; saw the boys at work bringing down the posts; knew that the boys were never hurt by what they did; did not believe the boys ever went up four times in one day; had seen them do it twice. ■ ■ ; - By Mr Harley: Could go up and down himself three times easily; could do it four .times if required. William Condell, farmer, Stoke, stated that he was a frequent visitor at St. Mary's, going in and about at all times as a friend and neighbor; the Brothers were good neighbors, too; the relations between the boys and Brothers were of the most friendly; the Brothers were far more patient with the boys than he would be; had seen the boys while out at work with the Brothers allowed to play about, and treated most leniently; never saw a stick in the hand of a Brother ; never heard a boy complain ; had seen the remains of a dinner, and remarked upon the quantity of waste sent to the fowls. James Best, laborer, Stoke, stated that he was working for Mr Norgate when the boys came up for posts ; the boys were not at all overworked, and were as merry as crickets; never knew the boys to go from top to bottom of the hill more than twice a day : the relations between boys and the Brothers were of the most friendly as far as be had seen while working about the Orphanage. By Mr Bush: The posts were cut from trees felled the winter before last. Robert Allan, draper, Bridge-street, Nelson, stated that he had an Orphanage boy at present with him in service ; the boy was very good except for being a little untruthful ; the first month, that the boy was with him he cried every day to get back to the Orphanage ; had the boy since November; .believed that he would willingly go back tomorrow ; formerly had Thomas Lane (a former witness) in service ; found him an

untruthful boy ; Lane obtained- permission to ro the Orphanage one Sunday afternoon, aud never returned to witness ; neither of the two boys ever complained of the treatment at the School ; the material produced was black moleskin, and very serviceable for coats and trouse/s 3 the other material was flax sheeting, it would make very good shirts, but rather hard 5 the third material was a finer sample of flax sheeting. By Ms Harley : Had had four boys from the Orphanage ; two ran away ; Lane went back, and the present one cried to go back ; bad supplied clothing to the Orphanage; on the 4th June last supplied 10 dozen shirts ; since then had supplied 53 dozen Oair of socks on the 16th June. William Wells de Castro, deputy land registrar, living at Stoke, stated that he had frequently visited the Orphanage ; so far as be had seen, the relations between Brothers and boys were good; the boys always Seemed to be well treated ; that was as far as" he was able to judge from seeing the boys at odd tiroes J never heard any complaint. By Mr Wardell : Had not been m conversation with boys under such circumstances, as they could complain very well. Arthur Henry Leaper, builder, and bandmaster of the School band, stated that he had held the position 4$ years ; there were 3-3 boys in the band j he went to the School three or four times a week ; from his experience should say the boys were friendly, very friendly with the Brothers; they seemed well fed ; all his boys were decently clothed ; had worked at his trade occasionally at the School; never heard a complaint of want of food. At this stage (5.10 p.m.) the Commission j adjourned till 10.30 this morning. ;