DUNEDIN CATHOLIC LITERARY SOCIETY.

New Zealand Tablet, Volume XXI, Issue 14, 4 August 1893, Page 29

DUNEDIN CATHOLIC LITERARY SOCIETY.

The weekly meeting was held on Wednesday everiag the 26th July. The rev president occupied the chair, and there waa a large attendance of members. The minutes of the previous meeting were read and confirmed. Measrß James Marlow and Thorold D. Waters were unanimously elected working members of the Society . Tbe formal business having been disposed of, Mr Speaker (Bey P. Lynch) took the chair at half-past eight o'clock. Mr J. B. Callan (Dunedin) proposed the motion (of which previous notice had been given) " That the bicameral system be contined in New Zealand, with this alteration, that the Members of the second Chamber be elected tmd not nominated aa at present." He Baid, Mr Speaker, considering the important and weighty nature of this motion, the question might be asked, why did not the Government introduce the meapure as their own? Well, as they bad just accepted office, and w'iuu the disorganised Btate of affairs left by their predecessors waa remembered, tbey were m that account excusable. A secun'i Legiblative Chamber had followed the Bntidh race all over tbe world where local government had been established, and not only tha', but had been copied by other nations aud found to work satisfactorily . Under the proposal now before the House, power would be exerci-e 1 by the people through two channels, whereas only one would be available weie the Becorjd Chamber abolished. The agitation in favour of its abortion was ca'culated to tickle the popular ear, and seemed to breathe a greater spirit of freedom. Where you have uncontrolled power there you have absolutism. The second Chamber had always acted as a check upon hasty legislation. Acts of injustioe were passed at times, and when the measures reached the Upper Houße paßeionß had cooled and palpable errors were rectified. It would, therefore, be unwise to remove this barrier, especially as under this proposal Members were responsible to the people, whereas under the nominated system they were independent aud no: aoßwerable to any one. Mr Alfred Quelch (Peninsula) seconded the motion. Mr Jameß P. Kager (Auckland) end be intended toputhooourable Members right as to the atitude of the Ministry on the important proposal juht introduced by the hon Member for Dunedin. He did not propose goiDg at any length into the merits of the question, but said Ministers ooe and all favoured the idea, and would, therefore, take up the question and stand or fall on the result of the division. As a measure of desirable reform and a step in the ngut direction tbe proposal commended itself to the Government. A nominated Chamber Is out of touch with the people, and, therefore, irresponsible. The hon Member for Dunedin's motion was worthy of the i-aiocst attention, consideration, and support of every Member of thia House. Mr Patrick Hally (Wellington) congratulated the hon Member for Dunedin on the tone und moderation of bis language, and hoped hon Members wouid follow the example so nobly set, Tho arguments indicated respect for the old time practices and customs of our forefathers. After listening to them, and looking round at the well-

filled Opposition benches he was tempted to exclaim — if it were not irreverent — with the disciples in the Bible story of the loaves and fishes, " What are these among so many ." He advocated the abolition of an Upper House, as the people of the Colony had already shown good governing qualities, find with an extended franchise all classes would be represented in the Lower House, and the control of power would lie with the people. Mr W. H. McKeay, junr., (Maori) heartily supported the motion, maintained that as the consiitution of the second Chamber would embody no class interest, but would be thoroughly representative, it could not, therefore, be offensive to anyone, and prophesied the abolition of the second Chamber would be disastrous in its consequencef. Mr P. Carolin (Westland) was of opinion the speech cf the hon Member for Dunedin would have done Credit to a statesman of greater pretensions, although he could not agree with bis argument!. On this question he (Mr Carolin) spoke from conviction, and not as a party man. From his earliest acquaintance with politics till now he had looked upon an Upper House as a political nuisance and a clog npon useful legislature and would not be satisfied until it was abolished. Mr T. D. Waters (Ashley) expressed his thanks for election as a member of the Society, and contended that the Upper House had not the interests of the people at heart. Its actions in times past and present hid shown this. If mistakes were made by Lower House the people had the remedy in their own hands through the Franchise. He was not satisfied with the half- hearted measure before the House but favoured the sweeping away altogether of the second chamber and its attendant evils, Mr Michael Miller (Awarua) considered the second chamber of great value, in shaping and bringing into proper form new measures Thehistoryof Upper Houses bad been fully gone into by members of the opposition and examples given where the desires of the people had been carried out. But all this was so mvc 1 } argument thrown away when the hon Member for Dunedin's motion was properly considered He could mention several historical instances both ancient and modern of the failure of single chambers to carry out the people's wishes. Tne motion wa9 totally in accord with democratic ideas. Mr D. W. Woods (Hawkas Bay) had not given the question sufficient attention to be able to say much about it but was strongly in favour of a second chamber, although he could not agree that it should be an elec'ive one. Rh J. J. Connor (Port Chalmers) said the few words he intended to express would be in support of the motion. Expedition seemed to be the tendency of the times in all things, and the 2nd chamber woIKI act as a corieciive against the unseemly haste which at times characterises the represesentative chamber. All recognißed the value of second thoughts. The idea of an elective Upper Chamber was a gojd one, and he would like to see it composed of a class of gentlemen who had served at least two sessions in the Lower House, aud that should entitle such persons to become, as it were, grand jurors upon the deliberations of the other Chamber. Mr H. McCoimack (Wairau) strongly opposed the motion, could not see that any good would be done by an elective Chamber and thought the representative Chamber sufficient for all purposes. Mr T. J. Lynch (Mount Ida) moved the adjournment of the debate till Wednesday the 2nd August.