THE IRISH UNIVERSITY QUESTION.

New Zealand Tablet, Volume XVII, Issue 40, 24 January 1890, Page 25

THE IRISH UNIVERSITY QUESTION.

(Concluded.) I have taken the trouble to analyse with some care the lists for the various years since 1885— tbat, as you know, being the first year in which our Catholic Colleges were in working order for the various examinations in the Faculty of Arts, ud to and including the examination for the degree of B.A. And, once for all, let me note that, as is necessary for the fairness of the comparison, I take account, of course, only of male students. Now wbai do we find ? I take the lists, firt-t of Honormen, and then of Exhibitioners, and I compare tbe results obtain el, on the one band, by students of tha two Queen's Colleges of Cork and GUway, and, on tbe other band, by students of the two leading colleges at the Catholic side — I mean, of course, University College in Stephen's-greei (cheers) and BUckrock College (renewed cheers). The results are a<* follows : Th<i n itnb^r of honours gained during the five years by students of Queen's College, Cork, was 65. In tbe case of Galway the corresponding number was 52, making for the two colleges combined a total of 117. Now as to the Catholic side. We find, in the first place, that one of our colleges, Blackrock, has carried off 1 18, or one more than the two colleges of Cork and Galway combined (loud applause). Tnen our University College in Stephens-green has the h'gber scora of 168 honours (great Cheering), making for our two representative colleges a total of 286 honours ea against a total of 117 honours from the two colleges, take together, of Cork and Galway (loud laughter). You will observe that in every case the result of our examination of these lists is to confirm a statement which I recollect having ma ie to you on the occasion of my last visit to this school. I then remarked that whereas our Catholic Colleges generally stand, as is but natural, in point of mere number of our U uversity students, far below the State endowed University Colleges of the oouutry, yet, when we pass from the test furnished by the mere counting of heads t > the more reputable test of success at the University examinations, our colleges at once begin to come into prominence. I added, as something more satisfactory, that the more closely we draw the lines — that is to say, the higher wrt go in the scale of excellence — leaving behind us the test of mere Pare Examinations, and even of the lower grades of University Honours, and confining our attention to the higher grades — to the First Honour list, for instance, and to the list of First Class Exhibitions— ihe higher we ascend in the academic scale, the more exacting the test we apply, the more and more prominently do the successes of our Catholic Colleges stand out into view, and the more brilliantly do they contrast, in point cot merely of relative but even of absolute numbers, with those obtained by the students of their favoured and well-endowed rivals (loud applause). Now let us apply all this to the lists before us. We have dealt with tbe number of Honours. Let us then proceed to apply the still more exacting test of the number of Exhibitions won b/ the students ot tbe four colleges respectively. Here are the figures. The number of Exhibitions won during the five years by students of the Cork Queen's College is 21. The corresponding number in the case of Gaiway n 11. The total for thoee two colleges is, then, 32. Turning, then, to the Catholic side, we find that the Blackrock figure is 37 (cheers), that is, five more than the total for the two Queen's Colleges. Then University C )llege, Stephpn's-green, has 44 Exhibitions to its credit (renewed cheers), making for our two c <lleges a total of 81, as against the combined total for Cork and Galway of only 32 Cloud laughter). I spoke just now of the special and highest test of First Class Exhibitions. Of these the number awardeJ during the five yeirsto students of th^ four colleges under considerat on was 39 How are (hay distributed ? The combined toUl for tbe Queen's College is but 8 (laughter). - Ours, then, if, of course, the balance, 61 (cheer-*), In this case, University College, Stephens-green, has 17 ; Blackrock, 14; Que< n'a College, Cork, only 5 ; and Quteu's College, Galway only 3 ; (cnea of "Oh "). Before parsing to the honour Hits in your own Faculty of Medicine, I would for a moment call attention to another noteworthy set of figures disclotei by my analysis of tbe exammttion lists is the F'culty of Arts. Tbe figures to which I now reLr are those of the B.A. examination, us to which it may be of interest to many to learn what number of graduates in Arts our Catholic colleges have produced during the ye.a:s in question. The number is 157. Of the«» , 57 were students of University Colleee, Stephen's green, and 25 were students of Blackrock, giving a total for these two colleges of 82 The total number of gradual e^ in Arts during the same period from tho two Queen's Colleges of Cork an I Galway was but 63, that is 19 le-s th*n oure. Nex', taking the number of those who Hot merely passed, but obtained the degree with honours, we find a result still more satisfactory. Our total number in this case is 40, that is, 25 from Stepheu's-green and 15 from Blackrock. The corresponding nambes for Cork and Galway are only 10 from each college, making a total of only 20 as against our corresponding total of 40 (loud cheers). As for the Exhibitions awarded at the degree examinations in Arts, their number was 32. In this case the total for the two Queen's Colleges of Cork and Gtlway combined ia but 8 (laughter) ; the combined total for our two Colleges is 24 (applause). The fitfUien, in detail, are, Stephen's green, 16 ; Bhckrock, 8 ; Cork 5 ; Galway, 3. To complete the statement of result?, following up, as I have a ready explained to you, the line of higher succps'-es, vve I take now the highest award of all — the award of the First Olass Exhibi- '_ bi ions. The total number of these exhibitions awarde i was "11. Of th^e, our two Colleges carried off 9 ; thj combined Cork and Galway total is only 2 (applause). At the Catholic ■ide the numbers are — Blackrock College, 2; Stephens-green, 7 The Queen's Colleges combined total of 2, such as it is, stand -i altogether to the credit of Cork—Queen's College, Galway, in this

casa not appearing in the list at all (laughter). What a marvellously impressive series of contrasts do not all these figures present, especially when it is borne ia mind, as of course it never should be forgotten in estimating their significance, that the tiro Catholic colleges which stand out so clearly as victors from firit to last are absolutely unendowed ; oue of them, the University College in Stephen 'e-green, receiving merely certain sums in payment of the silaries of some of its professors, whilst the other, Blaokrock («pplauee), receives no aid or recognition of any kind whatever. On toe other hand, the two Queen's Colleges are endowed by an annual grant of Parliament amounting to at least £8,500 each, making about £17,000 a year to the two, or a total of £85.000 (groans) for the last five years, those years for which the melancholy record ttiat I have now put before you is disclosed by the Royal University lists. I now at length come to the lists in which you in this school are most closely interested. Ia your address you refer with commendable pride, but at the same time with commendable modes y, to the successes you have achieved. It is right, I think, that I should set these forth in det.il. It is, in fact, necessary for ma to do so, as I mean to take this opportunity of making it quite clear that some statements of mine in reference to these successes, made here on the occasion of my last visit, are in no way open to the criticism that has been directed agaiast them, especially that which has been directed against them by a gentleman, with whose singularly misleading methods or statement I may perhaps have to deal somewhat severely (Uughter), but for whom personally I entertain no other feelings than those of respect and esteem. I refer now to the respected, and deservedly respected, president of Queen's College, Galway (laughter), Dr. Moffatt. You may remember that, on the occasion of my last visit, I spoke here at some length of the marvellous success of our school, as attended by the Royal University examinations lists. I told you that, for my part, I should have been well satisfied if I found that we stood upon a level with tha Medical School with any one of the three Queen's Colleges. For, as everyone is aware, you are in many respects at an enormous disadvantage in the competition (applause). We here are itruggliag along bravely, no doubt, but under the enormous disadvantage of not receiving one penny of public endowment. On the other hi>nd, oar Queen's College rivals are, I may say without fear of contradiction, at all events substantially endowed. I have with me some figures that I then quoted on this point. It can do no harm to hear them quoted once more. The public] endowment for the professorships ot tbe faculty of medicine in one of these colleges, Belfast, is over £1200— it is £1246 a year. In another, Coik, it is £1316. Ia tbe third, Galway, it is £1420 a year. Then, in addition to thi*, th<jse three colleges are splendidly equipped in the matter of laboratories, museums, and medical libraries. From a return that has bden supplied to me, I find that in the one year, 1887-88— and we may, I assume, take that year as a fair average specimen — the expenditure for the year for these purposes alone was^ in Belfast, not far short of £300. In Cork it was over £300. In Galway it was £469. In a word, tbe total public direct endowment for the teaching purposes of the medical faculty — to say nothing of the valuable prizes provided by the State for the students of that faculty — amounted for tbat year, in Belfast, to £1517 ; in Cork, to £1626 ; and in Galway, to £1889 (groans). All of this is absolutely independent of the outlay for the repairs and maintenance of the buildings, the whole co>t of which is borne by the public, through the office of the Board of Public Works. Now, as I said, I should for my part have been well satisfied if I found that in the winning of the first-class honours awarded at the examina ions of tbe Royal University, this absolutely unendowed medical school of ours was able to take its stand upon a level with any one of its threa competitors, the three colleges so unfairly favoured by this costly endowment from the State. Having in this way called attention to the singularly unequal terms of the competition, I go on to state whit the actual results of the competition, so far, had been. A-* I explained, I take the whole series of the medical examinations of the Rjyal University from the beginning, tbat is to say, tbe examinations known respectively as the first medical, the second medical, tne thirl medical, and tha examination for the degree of M..8. Igo back to the beginning, tbat is to say, to the year 1885, the first year in which our school as a school, was in woiking order for all the grades of tbe university m dical examinations. I took, then, into account all the medical examinations in the three yeirs that had elapsed, 1885, 1886, and 1887. These examinations were 18 in all. How in these three years, ■ he number of first-class honours awarded by the Boyal University at its medical examination was 13. How, then, were these distributed ? Galway carried off I ; Cork, 2 ; Be. fast, as a matter of course, first amongst tbe Queen's Colleges, headed their list wkh 3. Wbai, then, of this medical school of yours 1 It had beaten every one of them — your number was 5 (applause). 8 > far for the tes' furnished by the list of first honours. Next comes the application of tbe still higher test, the highest test, indeed, of all, that of the first-class exhibitions. Of ihese, the total number aw irded by the Royal University at its medical ex iminations since 1885 was 12. Of these 5 were won by Queen's College students — that is to say, 3 went to Belfast, 1 to Galway, and 1 toCoik. How many, then, were won by this school of ours ? It may well seem incredible ; but, as a matter of fact, we held our own, not only against the tbree Qieen's Colleges taken singly, but against the thite of them taken together (great cheering). The three Queen's Colleges with their splen lid m-dic-il endowment of over £5 0l)0 a year, succeeded in winning five first-class exhibitions. This one school of ours, even in its poverty, carried off as many as the three of them combined. It may perhaps be useful aho to repeat here to-day s>me other facts which I stated in illustration of tha shameful squandering of public money, obstiaately voted by Parliament, year after year, in the maintenance of the Queen's Colleges. I took the case of the Galway College and of its medical faculty. I illustrated my meaning by the statement of the following almost ludicrous facts, fhe yearly public grant for the maintenance of that faculty amounts to £1,880. The total cumbering of its medical students in the session of 1887-88 was only 40 ; the largest number of students attending any class in the faculty waa

34. This was in anatomy and physiology ; and the salary of the professor of that class, exclusive of his class fees, was £220— that is to say, nearly *7 for each student in the class. In chemistry the salary of the professor— paid, remember, out of the public taxes— is £300 a year, and tbe number of students was only 25. Hence the rate is exactly £12 for each student. Bnt there is much worse than this. In Medicine the number of students was only eight, whilst the professor receives from the public a salary of £150 a year. In Surgery the professor's salary is £150, and the number of students w.s only seven. In Mi Iwifery, whilst th c salary, as in the other cas a, is £150, the class consisted of one solitary student (gre*t laughter). Witbin a very "ewdays after my visit her^ I was callad to account for all this almost simultaneously, by the Presidents of two of the Queen's Colleges, Belfast and Galway. Of Dr. Porter, the President of Belfast, I must coutent myself with saying that in a letter to the Times, I replied to a letter of his which had appeared in that newspaper. The discussion, which would not, I trust, have been aoyihing but a friendly one, then came to an abrupt close. For, within a very few days, to the heavy loss of the important and sucewsful college, of which he was the president, Dr. Porter's useful labours in the cause of Presbyterian education in Ulster were cut short by his untimely death. I am debarred, then, from referring in any argumentative way to Dr. Porter's letter. But there was one point most unaccountably brought up in the course of our incomplete discussion, which I am very glad to find myself in a position not to let drop. Just before Dr. Porter's death oar correspondence was noticed at some length by that well-known medical journal, the Lancet. The Lancet, to a certain extent, made Dr. Porter's cause its own. It described his answer to my statement as a " very efficient answer." H re is what it says— The " Archbishop has tried to show that the Q teen's Colleges "f Belfast, Cork, and Galway, which receive among them £5,000 a year for medical teaching, h»ve been beaten in the award of first-class Honours and of first-class Exhibitions, by the Catholic University School of Medicine." You observe tbe expression that I " tried " to show this (laughter). Then the Lancet continues: "The Archbishop avers "—again you will oba.rve the form o£ expression. The writer is dealing with a statement of facts pnt forward by me, in no way contradicted or called in question by Dr. Porter, yet he speaks of it in this curious way—" The Archbishop avers that, takin? a period of three years out of 13 honours, 6 went to the Queen's Colleges and 7 to the Catholic University Madical School and University College, and that of the 12 first-class exhibitions awarded by the Royal University, 5 went to the Queen's Colleges, and 7 to the Catholic University Medical School and University College." To all this " averment "of mine the Lancet certifies that Dr. Porter gave a very efficient answer. He took, it seems, " a larger period into the purview." He did not pick out merely the years that might serve some particular purpose. He went back to the beginning, " to the foundation of the Royal University in 1882," and he showed that, since then, Belfast students had woo, I do not know how many first clasi and secoad claes honours and exhibitions, showing, of course, that our poor Catholic University was nowhere in the competition. Now, as I have already Baid to you, lam debarred from saying one word about Dr. Porter, and the fairness or unfairness of his adoption of such a line of argument es this in reply to me. I have to deal only with the Lancet, which has endorsed that ieply, cartifying to its "efficiency." As yon all know very well, the reply is tbe very opposite of efficient (applause). It is manifestly, and even ludicrously, imfficient. I trust the Lancet will be good enough not to overlo k wrrnt I am saying now. In my letter to the Times I moat distinctly explained why I did not go back to 1882, but b gan with 1885, As Ido not wish to introduce one particle of new matter into this discussion— and I trust that the Lancet, having taken it up, will not drop it until it has been thoroughly discussed and sifted from beginning to cod— l shall merely quote my former state ment on the point. Writing to the Times, I had pointed out that "My statement was most distinc ly limited to the period beginning with 1885. Heavily and unfairly over-weighted as our school was, it was only in tint year that it at all succeeded in making up the ground it bad necessarily lost at the start. So far as any statements of mine, then, are concerned tbere can be question only of the examination of 1885 and of the subsequent years." What could be plainer ? And yet, after all this, tbe Lancet takes it upon itself to declare that " a very efficient answer " to my statement of the marvelous success of our school since it came effectively into competition in 1885, is made by going back to 1882, and swelling the number of Queen's College successes by packing tbe record wiih numbers of successes attaioed by Queen's College students when, so far as our school was concerned, they bad tbe field to themselves (applause). Parading the successes of the Belfast students in those earlier years may be " a very efficient answer " to those who attempt, as 1 certainly do not attempt, to justify the present distribution of Queen's College grant?, in which either Cork or Galway is at least a 9 well endowed as Belfast. But instead of being " a very efficient answer " to anything I have said, I take leave to say that it is nothing but a very clumsy evasion of the point of our ca«e (loud cbeeis). 8o far for the Lancet in it* capacity — if I may coin the phrast — of controversial executor (laugh. er) to the late respected President of Qaeen's College, Belfist. As 1 told you, my stattm-nt w.is challenge dalHO from aooiher quait.T— Galway (laughter). The President of tbe Queen's College there, Dr. Miffatt, who, I am bappy to 6ay, is still in offioe (laughter), a d moreover is in tbe full enj »ynunt of every faculty (renewed laughtei) requisite to enable bim to defend, as ably as he h^a ever been abla to defend, the interests of tbe institution of which he is the worthy head, Dr. Moffntt, took substantially tbe same line as his colleague of Belfast. He. too, wcit j back to 1882. From his letter it would seem that Be fast was au- ' where (ltughter). He paraded with singular minuteue s of detail the somewhat irrelevant facts th<tt a Galwiymm was first oa the list 1»82, another Galway man first in 1883 an >ther in 1884, and another at all events amongst the first in 1885. Yes, up to tbe very point at which our school came effectively into the competition (applause). What place Queen's College, Galway, has held in tbe lists of first claia honours and flrit «laj| exhibitions since then we all

know, Tint really is the only question to be dealt with. Bat instead of dealing with it Dr. Moffttt goes back upoa tha history of a number of somewhat questionable transactions — as I, at least, must regard them— which took place in tha Sanate of the Royal University, among the earlier operations of that learned and distinguished body. Certain exceptional privileges, exemptions from the regulations drawn up for tbe University examination*, were applied for in favour of the Q le '.n's College studeits. Almost incredible as the thing may seam, it was, as a matter of fact, pleaded on their behalf that the enforcement iv their ca3e of thi regulation! as they stood would ba a serious hardship, an i, in fact, would form a seriou* obstacle in the way of their getting the meiicil degree) of the Royal University at all. I have not tha slightest doubt that it would (applause and laughter). Well, tbe exceptional favours, singular as it may ssom to us, were granted by tha Senate, and a rule was passed tha', for a certain number of years — the concession, to a certain extent, iB still in force— the highest medical degree of the Royal University, the degree of M.D., coald be obtained by Queen's College students without being required to stand the examination prescribed for it in the regulations of the University (groans). Well, now, Dr. MofUtt in his numerous and somewhat confusing quotation* from the University regulations with which he filled a letter to the newspapers in reply to me, somehow did not bring oat this fact in a very prominent light. Now that I hare brought it out for bim, I should like to know what ha his to say to it? (Applause.) la one of his letters be contrived to crmvay tha impression that whatever privileges were conferre 1 on Queen's College students in the earlier years of the Royal Uaiveraity were coaf erred on all other students as well — on the students, for instance, of this Ifedical School of ours. Tais is anyiain* bat tras. If oae of our students wishes to take out the degree of Doctor of Medicin.3 in the Boyal University, he must take it out by passing the prescribed examination. Qjeen's College students, numbers of them, are obtaining that degree without passing the examination prescribed in the cisc of others, on passing merely the examination prescribed for the preliminary degree of MB, Now, Ido not like to say that this is a fraud upon the public. But I say that it is something very like it (cheers). Aga»n I say I should lite to know what Dr. Moffatt tvs to say about all this. Lord Duffarin, the other day, was led into speaking in high terms of the medical degrees of the Royal University. He is the Chancellor of the University. Was he told anything about this singular method of bestowing them ? (Great cheering.) I have now to mention a name of one of your professors. I have to ap >logise to him for do<ng so. Take the case of Dr. Birmingham (prolonged cheering). Even in Dr. Birmingham's presence I must say of bin that bis record in the examination lists of the Royal University is oae of tbe most distinguished, I dare say indeed it is the most distinguished, that can be found in those lists from be^innm; to end (loud applause). He took out his degree with first-clasahonours aud a first-clas9 exhibition (cheers). Now what is Dr. Birmingham's university degree? As yet be is a Bachelor of Medicine. Why is he not a Doctor of Medicine? Simply and solely because he ia not a Queen's College student (great cheering). On that very examination a mere passman from one of the Queen's Colleges conld tuve obtained the degree of Doctor of Medicine. Tbere are, in fact, quite a number of M.D.'s from the Queen's Colleges created by the Royal University under this accommodating arrangement (groans). It i* monstrous — On the other hand, so far as I can ascertain, only one Irish student has ever, up to tbe present, taken ont the degree of M.D. on an honest bona fide examination. There may be one other. I have been able to trace only one, and that is a former stuaent of this Catholic University Bchool of ours, Dr. O'Carroll (great cheering). It is at all events a satisfaction for us all to know that what has been g> ing on in tbe Boyal University in reference to these favoured Queen's College students has not escaped detection. I have received trustworthy information that the Army Medical Department has felt called upon, for its own protection, to interfere (cheers). At a certain stage of promotion in tbe medical service of ibe army, an examination is prescribed for all ordinary members of the service, an exemption being granted only in the special cases of persons holding sjme specially high qualification such as the M.D. degree of some university of repute. Tbe Boyal University degree, of course, is recognised. Well, the heads of the department have now diccovered the way in which •' Doctors of Medicine " were being put in upon them from the Queen's College through this exceptional arrangement, and they have most properly come to tbe conclusion no longer to recognise these sham degrees (great cheering). Again, I say, I should like to know what Dr. Moffatt has to say to this (applause). Un« reasonably long though my address has been (loud cries of " no, no") I feel that I ought not to conclude without making some reference to another topic. You may perhaps feel somewhat surprised that I have not spoken on the important subject referred to briefly, indeed very briefly, in the closing words of your address to me. I have, indeed, abstained from referring to it, I have done this of set purpose. Once, on a former occasion, I allowed myself to be misled by delusive hopes. Speaking so far back as 1885, either here or in some other of the schools of our Catholic University, I stated my belief that we were then on the eve of a satisf ictory settlement of the University question I gave my reason for th*t belief. I quoted, as I was gladly able to qujte from a speech delivered in tbe House of Commons, the enc uraguig words of a leading member of the Ministry of the day, sp>ken by him as the official representative of the Ministry and leader of tbe House of Commons. They were as follows. The speaker, 1 should Bay to you, w*s Sir Miji.aei Hi ks-Beach. Speaking in Parliament on the Irish University question on tbe 28 h of June, 1885, he and— •' I should with to say, iv the fiut place, that Ido not think thii is a qu stion which ougbt to be appioacbed in the idea of concession. I shoulil wish to approach it «i h tbe sole idta and desire of emir avoariog to spread as far as possib c, what I believe to be the great blessing of University education in Ireland, among all persons, whatever their creed, and as far as possible, whatever their class, is duly qualified. . . . If it be our lot to be in authority next year, I hope that we shall be able to advance lomo

proposal which will be a satisfactory settlement of this most important question." "A satisfactory settlement of this most important question ! ' We know waat has nappena i since (applause). That was in IBS'). We are now in 1889 Aid the question still stands over for settlement. Recently some few promises na*e bean mide, there is dome confusion about the precise terms, as to something that is to be done in 1890, or possibly in some other futura year. I cannot see what there is in it more definite, or more encouraging as to the hope of its fulfilment, than there was in the promise given in 1885 by Sir Michael Hisks-Beaeb. That Minister his bean in office for the greater part of the time since then. Yet nothing whatever has been done (applause). He was not only in offise — ac was Chief Secretary for Ireland. lam bound, indead, in Justus to him, to add that if he had be n Chief Secretary until now his promise would, I feel convinced, have long since been fulfilled. But, taking faots as they are, I find that promise still unfulfilled, confronting me in solemn warning not again to be so easily misled (applause). It ia not for ac to ■ay whether the new promise that has recently been made is likely to beas lightly treate J.or to be as unfruitful in results as the old one has been. It seems to me of much greater moment that I should add some words as to another point. Reflecting upon this University question a few days ago, I somehow cime to think of the words of that solemn pledge that has come down to us from the early days of the English monarchy, in the Great Charter of English Freedom— "To no man shall we deny, to no man shall we delay, to no man shall we sell, justice" (appUuse). In this mitter of Uoiversity education, justice, as we know, was Ion? denied to the C Uholics of Ireland. Then came a period when the justice of our claims seemed indeed to be admitted, but still the practical recognition of them was delayed. In these f tilures to do juustica wo hid no part. They occurred in spite of ua. We c^uld but pres9 our claim. We could not enfo cc ir. But as to the third part of that solemn pledge, it depends upon ourselves to secure that it at all events shall not be oroken (applause). Justice was long denied us. It has long been delayed. But take my assurance it never shall be sold (continued applause) It takes two to make a bargain (renewed applause;. Ido not indeed wish to insult the Ministry of the day by ascribing to them the foolish project which has been ascribed to them by some. Insinuations have bean made upon this subject. It is humiliating to have to speak of such things, but as these iosinuations have been made — and they have been made from quarters from whic » such things should not have come — it is torced upon me to notice theui. I do not, as I have said, insult the Ministry by thinking them guilty of the folly of supposing that by any concession of justice that they could make to us they could hope to detach the influence and tbe sympathy of tha Episcopacy of Ireland from that side on our great public questions on which that influence and that sympathy have up to this been unitedly and steadfastly exercised. I do not think of ascribing to them such utter folly. Ido not believe that they can have entertained a thought of it. But, however this may be— speaking now not only for myself, but, as I know I am justified in speaking, also for my brethren of the episcopacy of Ireland — 1 give you this assurance that, whilst wn claim justice, we shall never stoop to purchase it (cheers), and, least of all could we ever harbour the thought of purchasing it, at the sacrifice, or even at the risk, of the rights of the Irish tenants or of the Irish nation (loud and continued cheering, amidst which the Archbishop resumed his seat, having spoken for an hour and forty minutes).