HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Wellington Independent, Volume XXVIII, Issue 3897, 26 July 1873, Page 2

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

FsnuYi Jtot 25. The Sibaxkr took the chair at half -past two o'olook. AOOOMMODATIOH. Before the : bußinesa op the- Order Paper was; proceeded with, a discussion was raised regarding the insuffioienoy of accommodation,. Mr Biohardson stating that, after ? a: careful consideration of the matter,' the Government found it to be quite impossible,, to ikeet thadamand without, the erection of? a; fresh building outaide the present building*. Mr^FißK^ said that the want of some^ suitable .plaoe in, which members might receive their friends or persons who might wast to see them, 'on busi* . ness had become: an intolerable nuisanoe. Various suggestions- were made as to how th» difficulty was to be met, amongst which were the giving up of the old Legislative,' Council and the Removal of the Stamp department. - The question then dropped. PUBUO PETITIONS. The Chairman of the Publio Petitions Committee brought up reports on several petitions,, whioh were read. ' . TBiBQBAPH STATIONS. Mr BLUETT asked the Commissioner of Telegraphs whotherfthe Gtaveromenit intend establishing a telegraph Btation on the south bank of tha RakaiaP The ho» member pointed out that the rapid inoreaeo to tha population which : had ; lately taken place in the district referred to necessitated the establishment of such, a. convenience. Mr VOQEL said the station .would b« •stablished very shortly. Mr BRADSHAW asked the "Premier whether the G-overnment will, extend, during the present financial year t the telegraph, so as to bring the townships <of Tapanui and Switzers, province -of Otago, into direot oom« munication with the rast of the ooleny P Mr VOQ-EL aaid he wab not in a position to give any decided answer at present. The) inquiries he had made, upon 'the natter showed him that, in order to carry out the wishes of the hon member,- an of £41 30 would have to be incurred. ■ HINXKa OONBBfiBMOB. Mr BRADSHAW asked the Premier if the Government had received from the Mining. Conference whioh sat at Lawrenoe,; Province of Otago, its report ; and, if flo^whether h« would be good enough to lay it on: the table of : the House, for the parpose of being referred to the Gt-oldfielda Committee for/. its information- ■•"•■' Mr 70GBL- Baid- the report had been re« ceived, and was now being preparej^ta b» laid upon the table; tH ■■'-■■ WAIMBA WATBB-BAOBS ' jf r WHITE asked the Minie|ejr ; for Publi* Works yhen it is contemplated to ca^ll for ten- - ders for the construction of S^aimea Water Race P His object in putting the questioa was to satisfy- his Constituents, who were deeply interested fin the matter. In fact, ;

many of the residents of the district had been deterred from going to Port Darwin solely because they expected the construction of this race. Mr RICHARDSON said the delay had arisen through the recommendation of the Chief Engineer, who was making another survey in higher land, so as to get a greater head find fall of water. LAND IMPBOVBMENT. Mr MURRAY asked Ministers when they would introduce the Lands Improvement Bill? Alse, if they- proposed to introduce any measure this session to enable the Boards to borrow money ? Mr VOGEL* was sorry that he could not give the hon member a favorable answer, as the Government did not purpose to bring in this session any measures such as those referred to by the hon member. OBOWK LAND COMMISSIONEBS. Mr WEBSTER asked to what »uthority are the Commissioners of Crown Lands subject P Are the provincial authorities justified in interfering with the action of Commissioners in administering Land Acts. The hon member said that it appeared to him that these officers were a kind of distinct and independent class of beings who owed no allegiance either to the General or Provincial Governments, and who acted in accordance. la'r O'EOKEE read a detailed answer to - the hon member's questions, defining the position and duties of the Commissioners of Crown Lands. To the second part of the question he could say that the Provincial authorities would not be justified in interfering with the performance of the routine duties of the Commissioners, unless they had the authority of the law for so doing. BT7PPI.Y. The Imprest Supply Bill for £250,000 was put through all its stages and passed. TELE&BAPB" CABLES SUBSIDY AGBEE3IENT EATIFIOATION BILL. Mr YOGEL, in moving the second 'reading of this bill, explained its intention, viz, the placing of a submarine cable between New Zealand and New South Wales, for the purpose of telegraphically connecting this colony with the rest of the world at some future opportunity. The hon member explained nt length the state of telegraphic communication between the Australian colonies and India and Surope at present, and further extensions contemplated by the various Governments. The hon member then explained the provisions and guarantees of the bill, and the proposed Scale of charges fixed between this colony and j the Australian colonies and the ofcker stations outside of the colonies- In conclusion, the bon member informed the House that whatever action had been taken by himself and his colleague (Mr Reynolds) in the matter was not of a kind to bind Parliament in anyw ay ; aid he therefore submitted the bill as a proposal for the House to consider whether it ' was desirable that New Zealand should be connected by cable with the rest of the world. There was no doubt that sooner or later such a result must be attained. His own opinion ■was, that this colony could not afford to be left out of the propoeed line of communication. If the House should "desire to establish cable communication, he thought that no more favorable conditions could be obtained than those contained in the bill now before them. Mr PEARCE asked the hon gentleman at head of the Government whether he would have any. objection, when the bill was in committee, to introduce a clause limiting the time within which the cable would be constructed, as that seemed to him to be a most necessary guarantee in such an important piece of work. Mr YOGEL promised that the point should receive consideration. In reply to Mr J. E. Beown, Mr Yogel said that the point where the cable would be landed in New Zealand would be south of Cook Strait, somewhere in theneighbourhood of Cape Farewell, in the Nelson province. . Mr BHEPHARD suggested that the consideration of the bill should be postponed until after the financial statement. Mr Hubbat asked if, in the event of the cable breaking down between New Zealand and New South Waleß, would this oolony be liable for the whole expense. Mr BUNNY oould not see what conneotion existed between the bill and the financial statement. There was no likelihood of the cable being laid during the present financial year j and it was very unbusinesslike to be putting off the consideration of everything till the finanoial statement. Mt White protested against the habit which seemed to be growing np of postponing the discussion of all important business till the financial statement was made. He entirely agreed with the views of the hon the Premier on the bill. Mr YOGEL, in reply, said that as the finanoial statement would be made on Tuesday, the business before the House would not be long delayed. In reply to the question of the liability of the Colony in the event of the line between here and Australia breaking down, New Zealand would be liable ; but the other colonies would be wholly liable Bhould tbe Signapore line break down. Bill read a second time. PBOviNOiAi.'ootmon. powebs bim. Mr YOGEL, in moving the second reading of this bill, gave a copious explanation of the objects of the measure, which are to empower provincial legislatures to make laws constituting tribunals for hearing and determining various matters, and regulating the mode of procedure in these tribunals. Mr BUNNY said the bill was not of a nature that ought to be allowed to pass without hon members giving their opinions upon it. Thankful as he was for small mercies, and ready kb he would be to accept the bill if he could get no better one, he still mußt say that tbe meature was not suoh a one as they had expected. He must say that the fear so frequently entertained by provincial legislaton of their acts being ultra vires, were often not well fouuded. The Constitution Act, which granted the very powers possessed by the General Assembly, also conferred the powers upon the Provincial Councils. It eeemed to him one of the simplest things to bring in a bill of a few clauses that would meet the difficulty raised against provincial legislation by the Constitution Act. He saw so other result than the oreation of further complications bj tbe constant tinkering of the General Assembly. . Mr WEBSTER protested against the bill as a retrogressive step. The bon gentleman proceeded to enumerate several measures • which had been brought in by the present Government as ostensibly concerning the welfare of the whole oolony, and after occupying much time and attention from the House, were abandoned by the Government, and left to Provincial Councils. It seemed to him high time they put an end to the farce of legislation going on. They were in fact assembling year . by year to merely register the acts of Provincial Councils. Mr SHEPHAED said he thought the power proposed to be conferred upon Provincial Legislatures would be dangerous; and if the Government had brought down a measure giving Provincial Councils such powers as the hon member for the Wairarapa thought they were entitled to, he made very little : doubt. that the House would instantly reject -^ifc. He should regret to see the legislative powers of Provincial Legislatures increased, Mr SEYMOUR said that it appeared to him thafc the great want of the legislation of the colony was that of a middle power between, the General Government and Provincial Councils. He held that tbe creating of •uch a power would be most beneficial. Even . in the matter of education he believed the system could not be satisfactorily dealt with without the aid of local machinery 1 . The matters referred to in the bill could very well be dealt with by the Provincial Councils rand if any doubt existed regarding ultra vires legislation, it had better be cleared up at once. Mr OUTHBERTSON said he would have ,no hesitation in supporting the bill. If provincialism were to be perpetuated for any time longer — and that they could be done away with at once no one would be rash enough to

say— it was highly necessary that effect should be given to their ordinances. Mr FOX coincided entirely with the remarks of the hon member for Invercargill regarding the bill. He really could see nothing in it calculated to raise the ire of the most ultra anti-provincialist, such as he believed the hon member for Wallace was. The hon member referred to a period in Parliameut when the politicians of tha colony were divided into two great parties — the Centralists and Provinoialists ; and having a vivid recollection of the struggle kept up at the time and of the leaders on both sides of the question, he must confess that, recollecting with what energy and eloquence the hon member for the Wairarapa — the leader of the great toorallooral party — denounced Provincialism in every shape and form, he was astonished to see him now, as energetic and forcible as ever, only that he occupied one of the highest provincial positions and arguing in a diametrically opposite direction to what he did a few years ago. Mr GILLIES criticised the bill very unfavorably, and said that it mocked thorn by a profession -which it did not perform. The measure was a mosi imperfect one, though he agreed with the necessity of the objects it was proposed to attain ; but he doubted the legaliiy of the mode taken. One olause of the bill operafcsd against another. The second clause and the third conflicted, the former granting powers in excess of what was allowed by the Constitution Act. The more he looked at the bill the less he thought it likely to accomplish the objects contemplated. Instead of settling the doubts already existing, the bill would only raise a great many more. It was quite unnecessary to grant extended powers to Provincial Councils, such as those contained in the bill, because he held that many of them were already possessed by the Provincial Councils, the opinion of thft Attorney U-eneral notwithstanding^— and <° «h o other instances the powers were not required. He would oppose the second reading of the bill. Mr WAKEFIELD thought the bill perfectly harmless. Mr BRANDON said he thought the bill might be considerably improved in committee, and made a very useful measure. The hon member said that the bill contained one point on which he should like an explanation from the hon gentleman at the head of the Government. It was this — Whether it was the intention of the fraraer of the bill that the Provincial Councils should not have the power of making penalties of £500, or whether thafc did not refer to the cumulative penalties. The bill was read a second time. INSOLVENCY BILL. Mr BATHBATE, who moved the second reading of this bill, said that the principle on which it was based is that of the existing law — viz, that when a man becomes insolvent, his property belongs to bis creditors, who may realise upon it in such a way as to them may seem best to their advantage. The chief recommendations of the bill were that it was an improvement upon previous measures in point of economy and expedition — it saved both time and money — and so protected the interests of creditors as to prevent collusion on the part of the bankrupt and some one else, and it prevented one creditor taking an undue advantage over another by the appropriation, or obtaining more than his just share of the insolvent's property* The interests of the insolvent were also carefully provided for, and every facility afforded for enabling him to procure a speedy discharge. In every way the bill provided preventatives to and safeguards from the fraudulent practices which had grown up with the working of the old insolvent law, and enabled insolvent estates to be distributed in the most speedy and satisfactory manner. He had no desire, however, to press the bill unduly before the House. In reply to Mr Shbehan, Mr Bathgate said he had no objection to poatpone the second reading in order to elicit the opinion of the Chambers of Commerce of the colony, though he believed the bill had been sufficiently circulated in quarters from which opinions were desirable. Mr REYNOLDS said that he knew that the Chambers of Commerce of Dunedin and, Canterbury thoroughly approved of the bill.*" -Sir 3r<}. "WxDsxjrrrMr-HOLLKSTON, and Mr Olabee hoped that the Government would not postpone the Beoond reading of the bill, as probably no other measure had been anore dismissed beforehand, or had received more warm approval. The bill was ordered to be committee that day week. THB SITTING. Mr REYNOLDS proposed that the House continue to sit after after half-past five (the usual hour of rising), in- order to clear off the Order Paper and avoid a sitting that evening. The proposal was objected to by several hon members, and a division called for by Mr Bunny ; but the proposal was negatived on the voices, and the House rose. NATIVE BUBVEYOBB BILL. Mr REYNOLDS moved the second reading of this bill, and explained its objeot — viz., to enable ports to be declared at which persens acting as marine surveyors must be licensed, and who, when requested to do so, shall hold surveys in the presence of insurance agents ; and further, that their evidence only is to be Accepted in Court. The bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Tuesday. THB MINEHS FBANOHISB BILL waß made an order of the day for Thursday. CANTBBBUBT WIDTH OP TIBBS BILIr. Mr ROLLESTON, who moved the Becond reading of this bill, said it was a far more important measure than appeared at first glance, and might very properly be applied to the whole colony, as it dealt with a question which was calling for attention in various parts of the colony. Mr RICHARDSON pointed out that although he would not oppose the second reading of the bill, it was calculated to interfere just now very materially with the traffic on a great many roads ; and in this respect he hoped » olause restricting its operation would be introduced. Mr BUCKLAND said he thought the bill ought to be allowed to lapse until it was submitted to the various Provincial Councils. Speaking for Auckland, he was well aware that such a measure would be unsuitable. Mr O'CONOR agreed with the remarks of the Minister of Public Works, as the bill could only be made to apply to" ' certain portions of the colony. Mr CtJTHBERTSON thought that the difficulties of the question would be best met by an empowering Act to enable Provincial Councils to deal with the question in accordance with their special requirements. Mr REYNOLDS thought it was wasting the time of the House to bring up such questions as this session after session ; and if the Provincial Councils could not deal with them, the sooner they were enabled to do so the better. Mr STEWARD would approve of the bill if slightly amended. Mr BUNNY said they had faced the difficulty in tho province of Wellington by imposing tolls upon narrow tires. The result was that broad tires were Boon substituted. He hoped the hon member would amend the bill so as to make it permissive. Mr GILLIES thought that the subject of the bill should have been included amongst the various subjects embraced in the Provincial Councils Powers Bill. Mr WAKEFIELD said that the bill, in its present form, would raise boundary difficulties that might be detrimental to traffic. Mr ROLLESTON said, in reply to the remarks of the Commissioner of Customs, that so long as the ■ Provincial Councils did not possess power to deal with tkis and cognate subjects he should have no hesitation in bringing down bills day by day to deal with those questions if it were necessary. He would, however, endeavor to avail himself of the many valuable suggestions thrown out by hon members. The. bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed next week.

OLtTTHA PUBLIC WOBKS BILL. Leave hating been obtained, the Olutlu Public Works Loan Bill was read a first time and ordered to be read a second time or Wednesday week. THB OANT3EBTTBT OATHEDBAL SQUABE Bill was committed, and the following addition made to the 2nd clause : — Provided that nothing in this bill contained shall authorise the removal of, or interference with, the statue of the late John Robert Godley now ereoted on said land, unless with the approval of the Superintendent and Executive Council. The bill was reported and ordered to be committed on Tuesday next. This concluded the orders of the day, and after several important returns were called for the House adjourned till Tuesday.