HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Wellington Independent, Volume XXI, Issue 2393, 26 July 1866, Page 5

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Tuesday, July 2<A, 1866. The Speaker took the chair at 2 o'clock. Prayers were read ami the minutes of the last meeting were read and confirmed. PAPEB9. The following papers were laid on the table by Ministers — Financial papers for the last eleven years ; correspondence as to Vice- Admiralty Courts ; report as to Hawke's Bay Petroleum ; correspondence relative to a mace for. the Houseof Representatives ; papers relative to £3,000,000 loan ; papers relative to claims of the late Colonel Nixon's sisters ; . report of Major Fraser of Turanganui. ... . , DEBENTUBES. Mr. STAFFORD took .the opportunity to state that the debentures had been sold at home at 92, notwithstanding the late panic there, and that the Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed to the House of Commons that the Impei'ial guarantee should be giren to the half-million debentures remitted home last year. 'OOVERNiTENT LAND SALES. Mr. CARLETON asked the Colonial Secrer tary — " Wheter it is his intention to bring in a Bill to make provision for the more effectual prevention of what is ordinarily termed " crossing :" i.e., the buying off of intending bidders at Government Land Sales when made by way of public auction." Mr. STAFFORD replied that he doubted whether any Act could be drafted in such terms that it would not be evaded. ,He would 1 , however, give a more definite answer in ft day or two. ABM3 ACT CONTINUANCE BILL, This Bill was reported, the amondmonfcs agreed . to, and the Bill read a third time and; passed. ' * PROVINCIAL COMPULSOKY LAND TAKING BILL. This Bill was also reported, read a third time, and passed. . SEPARATION. Mr. WHITAKER, on rising to move the resolutions standing in his name, was received with loud cheers. It had been his intention to take a different course from that he was now about to pursue. Instead of bringing forward a series of ' resolutions on the Biibject, it was his intention to bring forward a single resolution only, in order I to test the opinion of the House, whether any new form of Government was necessary. It ap- ; peared to him that this would be the most convenient course, but when he came to consult with . some gentlemen of the House and to hear, what; had been, and was likely to be said on the subject, it appeared to him that the direction in which any alteration was proposed should be • stated. When they oamo to discuss the question, he had no doubt that .the details involved in it would be found to be consistent with the gene? . ral principle ; but it would be his object to -con* -. fine himself to the broad general principle as to whether any change in the Government was necessary. . The resolution that he originally intended to propose wn» of a general charaoter, but on showing it to the hon. member at the head of the Government, that gentleman, who was certainly not very complimentary to bun,tho\ightthat : it was extremely unworthy of him to bring for- ■ ward a resolution in suoh a shape as the one pro* ■' posed, which, was to the effect that the present » form of Government in the Colony of New Zea* 1 laud was unsatisfactoiy on.} ought to be changed. - On that resolution, he intended to argue that the' form of Government pursued in this, colony waa specially unsatisfactory to the Province 'of Auck* land, and .perhaps, to. some . other parts •.ofvthe-A . colony.: It would very much f shorten .the discussion to now confine ibtct the priu-. ; '' ! oiple involved in , the question, arid then disoufla,. the details in Committee ; andi this was • precisely the course ha< intended ; to puroue. He, intended ia: the w»olUti«n» to khow that' ■ ■ „n ':;', ■ ; if i -i .;< v!>T!'i:c-\k>f •■■..-;.*:— «:s\;-i:r ■•

the time had como for a change in the Constitution and form of government especially with regard to the province of Auckland, and he should • also have alluded to the necessity of a change in 1 tho form of government of the whole colony, and have niada some general propositions as to the government of tho Northern portion of the° colony, but his hon. • friend's (Mr. Stafford's) objections had persuaded him to take a different course in order to meet his views nnd those of other members. He still desire that the question should be discussed in a central form, and that the details should be discvissod in Committee, as was the cn3e with Bills, as it would shorten the discussion and facilitate tho work of the House. With that view he should continue as far as he could io show that the colony at tho present time, and especially fcho Northern portion of it — (his friends had confined him to fclint) — required some altomtion in (he form of government. He should also express his views 01° the necessity of a change in the government of the rest of the colony, and should be clad to give any member assistance in working eui. a scheme, which would suit his part of the -colony. It had been pointed out to him that in milking propositions for the rest of .the colo.ny he was unduly interfering in. other people's affairs ; 'therefore, in order Io avoid all 'these difficulties, he believed ho had taken what would no doubt be considered by tho hon. member opposite, who -was taking notes, and by others, a very judicious coursti. He did no* wish to see the note, but would much rather hear it commented on hereiifi or, than take it in the drybone form in which it now wns. Ho was induced also to take this course in consequence of the liberal view taken ths other day by the hon. member at the heal o r the Government. He (Mr. Whitaker) enquired of him, and he replied tliat he did not consider that it wa-3 his duty or that of the Government to do so, but if tho people of Auckland wanted n change, it was their duty to bring the matter forward. At the same time the Premier made a most liberal promise ; lie was sure the House would agree with him in thinking it so. Ho (tin 1 Premier) said that if he (Mr. Whitaker) intro duced a measure within the four corners of Mr. Ciirdwell's despatch, of which tho Governor approved, with which Auckland was satisfied and which tho House would accept — (a laugh) — i( would receive the favorable consideration of the Government. (Laughter.) So desirous was fcho Premier to give his assistance, that it would ho vory wrong in him (Mr. Whitaker) ts> reject his advice. He would say a few words with l-efereneo to the course the' Premier took. He did think it was not the course the Government, and not the course which, under tho circumstances, tho Premier ought to have tnken. It did npponr to him that when discontent and disaffection (lie could call it by no other name) raged in a certain portion of the colony, it was the duty of the Government to enquire into the matter, and make some proposition to remedy it or at once to say boldly that the discontent and disaffection wore not well grounded. It did appear to him that it w»3 the duty of the Government to come forward with some proposition or to have said (as he" now repeated) that thoro was no ground for the discontent. Hi.« honorable friend stated (and he had made a note of it at the time) that he did not consider it his duty or that of the Government to bring forward any question subversive of the constitution. That, he (Mr. Whitaker) thought was begging the question. It did not follow that because discontent existed there would be any subversion of the constitution 5 it would bo open to the Premier to propose some change or alteration, and ho (MY. Whitaker) submitted that every change would not be a subversion. The other day he had heard this doctrine laid down by a member that it was only for him to show a grievance and it was then the duty of the Government to provide a remedy. However that might be, he accepted the onus thrown on him, and was perfectly ready to tindertake the task. He would endeavor to satisfy the House that there was in the Northern portion of the colony a certain amount of disaffection and discontent which no Government could properly disregard, for to permit it to continue was dangerous ; either it was the duty of the Government to show that the discontent was wholly unfounded or to come forward, if they admitted it, (and the Premier did admit it), with some remedy not subsersive of the constitution. He was afraid, before he had done, that he should weary the House, but this was an important question, and he promised that he would not detain them any longer than he could help. He wished to call attention to the exact position of the Northern Island with regard to population and other things, which should be understood in considering his propositions. If hon. members would look at the papers on the table they would find that on the 31st December, 1865, the Northern Island contained 77,500 inhabitants, viz., Auckland 49,605. including the military ; Taranaki 4,000 ; Wellington 19,000 ; and Ilawke's Bay 4000. The House would see the object with which he was troubling it with these statistics. In 185 b the native population in Auckland numbered 30,000, inTaranaki 3,000, in Wellington 8,000, and in Hawke's Bay 3,600. No doubt since 1858 there had been a diminution in tho number — perhaps 20 per cent. That would leave in Auckland 30,000 ? and in the three other provinces 12,000, making 42,000. That was the population they had to deal within Auckland, 49,000 Europeans and. 30,000 natives, making 80,000 persons, which after deducting the military, about 5,000 person would leave as near as possible a population of 75,000. He needed nob to go into the question of Customs Revenue and, other things, for no doubt hen. members understood them. His object was to show that the province of Auckland, as regarded revenue, population and area, was not so insignificant that it could be charged with arf ogance in asking for some local form of Government centred in itself. Auckland, as compared wish other places which had been made separate colonies, stood high, as appeared from the report of the Middle Island Association, (as he believed it was called) which was formed with a view to obtain separation. That body collected (statistics to ' show that the area of the- Middle- Island was quite largo enough for a' separate celony, as also its population. (The hon. member then read statistics of Trinidad, Jamaica, Van Dieman's Land, and other places; comparing them with those of Auckland.) Auckland wag larger, with one exception, than any of the places he had mentioned. He wished the House to understand this, so that they might see that they might see that Auckland was of a sufficient size to be entitled to a separate Government. There were three propositions which he should endeavor to make out to the satisfaction of tho House. In the first place he should endeavor to show that there was a great, deal of discontent at present existing in Auckland, and that it was well founded. He should then show that some remedy wag required and should propose one, not in all its details; but generally such a one as would answer the purpose. With regard to the proof that the province of Auckland'was discontented at the' present time, he would refer to an Association, of which a great deal had been said from time to time, viz., the Northern Association ; it was established for the purpose 'of obtaining separation in some form. He-was hot aware that "they haft fixed on the details of any scheme, but theitf general object was to have -some local Government competent to deal with* the affairs of ; Auckland without referring to any ' Other part -of the colony. The next point to . which ho should allude, would be the petition of the inhabitants of ■Auckland, being a large portion of the male jiopulati6n,"asking for the, same thing. ; Then thero was the lost election ; he.hadi retired! from, politics -in .'Order; that he might atfcorid batter to.tiia; own iffavrs.land it -war hia intention not to enter political life again' but he felt that this was an . important question, and

as the people were so united on it, they knowing his viows thought, (perhaps their viow was a mistaken one) that he should be made Superintendent. And he was elected on this understanding thrt he should not bo called on to hold any office after separation was obtained. He alluded to to this, because he was elected without any opposition ; indeed; he did not think any opposition would have been successful, lie did not say this on personal grounds for he was not vain, but ho J was returned on account of the advocacy which j it was known he would give to the cause. ! The election of members for tho Provincial Council look place afi.er that of Superintendent, and he said that the people should elect, none but separationists. Ho could now state that; thore was not a constituency from the ' North Cape fco the Taipo in which a man would have stood a shadow of a chance, if he had not said that he was in favour of separation. Those were important facts ; from time to time there had beoh public meetings in Auckland of a most unanimous description, at which tho very name of separation had caused much excitement; and thero was at the present time in Auckland an amount of discontent and disaffection which he was sorry to sec, and he would appeal to the House to-day to go into Committee on his resolution.-* because it was a thing which ought not to bo ignored or disrecardod by the Government or the Assembly. The next event was the election of members for the f-Touse of Represent-afire:?. Ho had told the Hov e a few days after he came here that the bond of union of the Auckland members was reparation; that on that they wero united — and whether they had any defaulter, lie was not able to say ; he did not think they would have ; at all events if any member in tho House now representing an Auckland constituency had said on the busting that he did not represent separation he wjulcl not have been in the House to-day, and he (Hr. Whitiiker) asserted that if any such member was not a sepuralionisfc, he was here under false pretences. He would only weary the House if he detailed all the grounds for the existing disco'n'ent, but his honourable friend (Mr. Stafford) did not deny the existence of it — in point of factsaid the other day Io a question put to him, that, a largo amount of discontent or diaffeotion (he forgot which word was used) did exist in Auckland. In order, however, to satisfy new members, he would go a little more into detail. He would be" of them nob to put the question aside as a disagreeable one, because if this discontent went on, it would lead to some serious disaster ; ho would therefore appeal to tho House to fairly consider the question, but he would not go into the question as to how far other provinces were dissatistified, though he did not think that they were altogether satisfied. Ifc was only the other day that the nosy member for Clutha (Mr. Macandrew) brought forward a proposition with reference to the Gold Fields, which did not show satisfaction. It. was to the effect that tho people there would not have a double Government. That was a most important interest, and what they wanted was some strong instantly acting government over them. If he understood the matter rightly, they said, " give us the whole management, or take it yourselves." That might be practicable with regard to gold fields ; because there wns not so much risk run in them as in native affairs. A or a want of immediate action might bring about little delay might cause some inconvenience on thiGold Fields, but in native affairs a false step or a want of immediate action might bring about disastrous consequences. In addition to this there was among all the Southern Provinces a certain amount of dissatisfaction with regard to finance, at which he did not wonder, for they had a partnership of unlimited liability, and wore paying for things over which, except for once a year, thoy had very little control ; there was not, therefore, all that peace and happiness, the lion and the lamb lying down together, that an hon. member said there wa3 ; there was a certain amount of dissatisfaction in the Southern Provinces, and especially in Olago. This was something which called for the interference of the Government and the House, and it was because tho Government threw the burden on him that he had undertaken tho duty they should have performed. It had been said that the removal of the seat of Government had created much soreness in Auckland ; ho remembered a former member of the House, Mr. Fox, telling him that that soreness would wear off, and that Ihe colony would soon bo united and content. He (Mr. Whitaker) pointed ont that the reason why that could not possibly be ; that the feeling for separation was of older date than the removal of the seat of Government, and so far from dying out would increase in intensity. He could appeal to tho House and to his hon. friend (Mr. Stafford), who well knew what was going on in the province, to know whether that feeling was dying out, or was likely to die out. It was the duty of the Government to take up the question, for it was an old one. Before tho Constitution Act was passed, even tho Province of Auckland felt that New Zealand would be better governed with two governments than with one. He mentioned this, for the province possessed the seat of Government at that time, to show that they were not selfiish. But after the Constitution Act was passed on the sitting of the Provincial Council, in 1853, a resolution was. passed, unanimously pointing out the desirability of separation to both North and South, and a petition signed to that effect. In 1855 the Provincial • Council • adopted the same course, and also in 1858, 1861, and 1865. So it had been going on for the last thirteen yeai % 3, during which time the province had been benf, on having a separate form of Government. He would remind the House that all these petitions, with the exception of the last, were sent home at the time Auckland had the seat of Government, so that the feeling had not been cansod by the rcmovalof the seat of Government. Ho was anxious to impress this on honorable members, or they might fall into the error of Mr. Fox in supposing thab the feeling was an ephemoral one ; it was too deeply seated for that. His second proposition was that there were no reasonable grounds for this disconi ent. Ifc was not his intention to cast any imputation on the p.ist, present or any member of any Government, but he would endcavoi-, if possible, to satisfy tho House that he had grievances, and he would then appeal' to tho members ns Englishmen to take some steps to remedy the grievances by adopting his proposals, or whatever others they might think fit. Ho deprecated any attack on past Governments, because it would only lead to angry feeling, which would not advance tho position of the House, or the interest of any part of the Colony. He thought ifc was not desirable on any acconnt fchab any imputation should be made against past Governments. It would nob be wise, just, or generous to rake up the past, nor did he intond to do so, bufc ifc would be necessary for him to make out hi 3 case to notice the acts of the present and former Governments, not fchafc the members of them had wilfully done the Province any wrong, for he attributed the evils to tho distance at which the governing body was from the governed, by which many things had been dqjid' improperly, 1 and many things had been done which ought not to have been done. If ho showed that that wa? caused from the Seat of Government as compared : with Auckland, he had then made, put Mb ca9e, •that a local Government was required in the Northern portion of this Island, all ho could' say at the present moment was, that with regard to native affairs, everything appeared to • him for some, time past, to have , been going excessively crooked and wrong. It was only since his election in October, that ho had been able to see certainly what was going on, having beou-, both/- Superintendent and agent- for the General, Government and many things ■ had come under hfc notice, to which; otherwise jh^ would not have seen ; he was therefore in a position to point out in what way these things If, to

going wrong and he thought ho could convince the House that they wero going wrong, and that something must be done. Thore was a very important institution which had been working in the Northern portion of this Island, he meant tho Native Lands Court. This had changed the whole position of the native lands. The lands of ihe natives and of the Government were intermixed, and many inconveniences had arisen, because access was required to documents at Wollingfcou to show that land claimed by the natives b<4on*ed to the Government. On one occasion ho. had written to the Colonial Secretary for somo documents required, and was told in reply that no inconvenience had been caused in Ilawke's B:iy or Turanuki in similar circumstances.

The lion. Mr. STAFFORD here interrupted tho hon. member —Was thab the whole answer?

Mr. WHITAKER — He waa speaking entirely from recollection, but his hon. friend no doubt had the letter in the other room, afc all events his honorable friend would not disputo thafc the documents did no*-- como.

The Hou. Mr. S I'AFFORD— I do dispute ifc ; the documents did go. Mr. WmTAKWR.— His immory wa3 a little at fault j if ho would look al, the fir^b letter, he would find that the documents did not como. He (Air. Whi.fciker) asked an honorable friend, who , held the otfice of Secretary of Crown Lands why thry did nut come, un-l he replied " look how beautifully they are all arranged— you wouldn't disturb them." Ho replied " yes they look very beautiful here, but what is the good of them after you lose your lands." With regard to theso claims ho would go a little more into detail, because ifc was an important, subject. Ho wished to show that this was happening from day_ to day and wock to week, and that some alteration was necessary in ' the management of native affairs. lie was under somo apprehension as to what he should hoar about the claims for land in Hokiauga, for the natives could put any lands into the Court, and if no one appeared to oppose their claims, the lands would be given to them. There was no kind of reason why he should not find his house and garden in town gone when lie returned to. Auckland. Natives were not particular as to boundaries, and would encroach in all directions, and as an instance ho might say thafc they had absolutely claimed ltangitoto, Whungapoa, and the island on which tho lighthouse* was placed. Ifc was therefore necessary to keep 4;he eye of an Argus upon them. A short time ago a difficulty arose between the Araiva tribe, and another with respeofc to their lands, and he had pointed out to the Arawas that they were wrong, bmVthey said that there were papers on the subject which could not be found, and the matter could nob be settled. If they had the native records in Auckland they could have referred to them and saltled the matter at once. In tho North fchcro was a block of land most valuable to' tho province, but the natives were claiming bits of ifc, and a few months ago, Mr. White, who was the only man that could have settled the matter, had to como down to Wellington for native papers, and from that go back and up the Waikato, so that' the Land Court at'Hokianga had to be postponed. All this was badly managed, which might be obviated if there was a local Government in Auckland. With regard to the native affairs generally, ho might say that his hon. friend at the head of the Government know that their old friends the Arawas were very much dissatisfied, and- that nothing was being done to settle tlifi matter. This would not be the case if there was a local Government, which would know what was going on amongst them. Thero was one case of such importance that he must go into it more deeply — he meant that question at Taiirang 1 . [The hon. member here referred to a correspondence between himself and tho General Government.] He did not bring these matters forward to show thafc the Government was wilfully neglecling Auckland, bufc that from their position they were unable to give ifc that attention which it absolutely required. This was the point he wi.-lied to press upon tho House, and ho would now refer to that question of tho lands afc Tauranga. In 1864 he accompanied the Governor to Tauranga, to receive the submission of tho Ngatirangi tribe. Their lands were forfeited for rebellion, but inasmuch as their system of warfare was more civilized than thafc of any other tribe," his Excellency promised fco give them back a large portion of their lands, . and only keep 50,000 acres. They wore pleased with this, but they wero situated in the middle of a number of hostile tribes, and hoped thafc solfclers would be placed on their land as soon as possible. It was so promised fco them, and that the land should be surveyed afc once. Thi3 wa3 in August, 1864, and tho matter rested there, notwithstanding frequent complaints and reports from surveyors and others, which, on being sent in to the General Government, had nothing bufc the ominous word " file" written on them, and there they were left. A great deal had been said about the Church Missionary claims. In August, of 1864, tho trustees said they wore ready to negociate, bufc nothing whatever was done in the matter. These things again showed that unless the Government was on the spot it could not cope with the difficulties, and it proved the necessity for a local Government in Auckland. He would now refer to what was going on at Opotiki. He believed that if tho matter had been left in his hands, these Opotiki claims would have been long ago settled, but his hon. friend at the head of the Government seemed to be frightened of them ; he was alarmed afc what had taken place afc the Compensation Court at Taranaki. Ifc was a most important thing, if possible, to settle such matters out of Court, whether they related to European or native affairs, and more especially the latter. These affairs at Opotiki might easily have been settled, and now they wore to bo thrown into a Court, the decision of which was not understood by the natives, and wiis never thoroughly acquiesced in by them. Again, thoro wero those unfortunate murders in the Bay of Plenty — tho Rev. Mr. Tolkner and Mr. Fulloon. There was a case of all others when prompt action was necessary, nit perhaps by war, but by negotiating with tho neighbouring tribes, when Kereopa would, by this time, have boon tried, hanged, and forgotten, but this could not be done because there was not a local Government with supreme authority. There were not all the cases he would bring forward, but he would now ask whether such evils should be allowed to exisfc, without considering the question of a separate Government at all. He hoped that whatever might be the fate of his resolutions, the Government would bring forward somo measure to remedy the evils, and that the House would assist in doing so, for it was their < duty to do so. (Hear, hear.) Thero was some, apprehensions felt amongst the sefcfclers fchafcno steps wore . taken for organising a periuanonfc . force for the defence of tho North Island. On this he must say that any Milibia Aofc would be ineffective. What was wanted was somo force ready afc all times. The settlers saw thafc tho troops were, boiug removed and wore alarmed, whereas, if the people of Aucklandhad their own Government they could at once take necessary stops for their defence. What tlie proposition of the General Q-ovqrnraejifc. on this subject was he did not know. If hon. gerstlemen. from tho South folt that thoir oufclying ■ districts wero liable to bo attacked afc any moment, <| they, would feel uneasy, and this was just the case in Auckland. Now» with regard to the argu- ; raenfcs as to fcho Seat of Government, he would merely, say that haying rpmpvcd it for their own convenience, . they had nevertheless reqjoved, i,fc from the centre of the native population to the, end of tho island. ; Ifc was not; a question of inconvenience , or convenience with them; but aW,-,-)utely of f .danger, ' .. They had np,w romowl fche, .go^er.n^entofffche.n^biy.e.s from ii» i emi,d j sfcoXthom i; and instead of making dome better provision for governing them, the Government had absolutely

done nothing ; and the seat of Government was removed at a moat inconvenient time, when tho whole country was in rebellion. He did not want them to remove it back again, but he would ask them to make some provision for governing the natives in the North. There thoy were placed in a position of danger and difficulty, which he thought wholly unnecessary, as he had considered he had shown. Now with regard to European affairs ho would merely touch upon them. He asked them to look around them and see how European affairs were managed, and consider whether they could, or could not bo bettor | governed by a change. Wcro the Southern provinces all content ? No, they were not. The j only province that was really content was that in j which they were then. . Hero they had the seat ; of Government,' the Panama route, the Manawatu block, and they thought they could get tho threeeighths of the Customs. (Laughter.)' Under these circumstances this happy family at Port Nicholson being so well satisfied, ought to do something for j tho North and south ends of New Zealand, and he would appeal to them to do so. At the present moment they wore devoting some seven months of each year to legislation between Provincial and General legislature, and he would ask whether the people of New Zealand were going to spend half thoir existence in legislating ? (Laughter.) Tho proposition he made would remedy this. Then ngain ho felt sure that many of the Southern members were disgusted with this constant reference to native affairs. (Hoar, hear.) But if they would agree with him in his resolutions they need not have so'much of them, and could attend to their gold and. their sheep. These native affairs were specially interesting to people of tho North, and they ought to deal with them ; but as long as the South had to pay, so 1 >ng had t!>oy a right to judge in the matter. These matters all resolved themselves into questions of finance, and he would recommend his friends from tho South to look after their monetary affairs, and if they considered their interests in this respect they would vote for his resolutions. There was a return asked for the other day of tho expense of the sittings of the General Assembly, but that return did not show one half the cost, for it did not shew what it cost the provinces for their officials to como to the Parliament, so that whether they looked at it as the management of affairs or of finance, the pvoposisition ho put ought to be favorably considered. Ho did not speak for the South, ho left his hon. friends from there to speak for themselvea ; but he would Bay that he would support any of them who wanted a local constitution as well as Auckland. It was because l\e wanted to see prosperity in both ends of the island that he put these resolutions on tho table. He had already explained why he h:id confined them to Auckland alone, and ho hoped tho debate would be confined to that. He would now proceed to consider the remedies for the evils which ho had shown to exist. One was enfciro separation, with no federal junction, another was a Provincial Government with extended powers, and another was that which he proposed. They did nob want any ultra-provincialism; and tho other might bo very well granted to them without cutting them off from the rest of the colony, what they wanted was the management of native affairs and he for one would be very sorry io . see them thrown into the hands of a Provincial Council and Superintendent. The wanted tho conservative principle of having a second chamber and a Governor, and they asked simply, " Is there nothing you can do for us to give us the management of our affairs, and especially native affairs, without cutting us altogether apart from the rest of the colony ?" He did hope that ho had shown that tho people of Auckland had reason to complain ; delay was dangerous, and he would ask them to do something to help them out of that danger. The resolutions, as thoy stood must be looked at f\om three points of view, admistration, legislalatior, aid finance. With regard to administration, ho had already pointed out the necessity for a change. With regard to the finance, he njight say that they did not want, in taking the management of native affairs, to dip too heavily into the pockets of their friends from the South, but woro prepared to make a compromise. At present, the partnership between the two, whatever might be aaid, was one of an unlimited liability, and they must pay to tho last shilling. Tho poople of Auckland would manage their native affairs much more cheaply, and they would not have to take such unlimited sums from the South. Ho believed that at present it would be a most dangerous thing for any portion of the colony to enter into any large works not knowing what heavy liabilities they might be let into and he had shown his own feeling on the subject by his action with regard to the finances of tho Province of Auckland. When they were about to enter upon any large local works they must remember that the claims of tho General Government must como in before all else, and he felt certain that by tho arrangement he proposed this prior claim could bo done away with, and both parts of the Colony would gain ; and he could i\ot see what charm there was to hon. gentlemen of tho South in legislating for the natives, or why thoy should objoct to get rid of the trouble and anxiety of having to do so. The opinions of men at home, who were conversant with Colonial matters, wero worth consideration, and he would now select one or two instances. In 1814 he found Sir Charle3 Buller strongly recommending the division of tho Colony into two, and the appointment of a separate Government for the northern portion. In 1846 Earl Grey introduced a similar proposition to that which he himself was now advocating, but it was not put into force although thero were absolutely two Governments at that time — one at Auckland and one at Wellington, which ho could say gave the greatest satisfaction to all parties. It had been said that ho was introducing some new-fangled notions. (No. no) '; those bases proved that it was not so while even under the prosont Governor the very change which was now proposed was indicated by his Excellency in that celobrated despatch of his, which was the foundation of the New Zealand Constitution. In 1858 the New Provinces Act was introduced to bring down the Provinces to their proper limits as large municipalities, which was their legitimate position ; but during the last three years the Legislature had acted just indirect opposition to that policy, and it was necessary now to take tho matter in hand, and see if they could do the reverse of that policy,' and raise the Provinces to a different standard. Ho thought it objectionable to their having extended powers as Provinces, but he looked upon it as necessary that such a Province as that of Auckland should be elevated into something higher and more independent. Again, it was most h'ksome to have to meet thus, year after year, to legislate, and that would be obviated by the course ho proposed. He would not detain tho Houao longer than he could possibly help, but 1 c in I refer thorn to the despatches which had been laid on tho table only the otherday, when the despatoh of Mr. Card well strongly advised that some provision should bo mode, and directed his Excellency to consult on the subject.with his responsible advisers, whose duty it was then to have brought • the matter before the House. The question of •responsible Government iv tho Province of Auck; land was one which ought to bo decided after--wards by the Provincial, Assembly itaelf, and need ', not be discussed now. He would not weary the ! House by reading speeches and despatches which he had iv his- possession, but he would refer hon. members tp. the rema\*kß of Mr. Gladstone,,-. Mr. Cardwell, and the Duke of Newcastle, upon this very matter. It was said that the natives wore, subdued, and native affairs .settled, but lie could tell them thatab was. not so.,i;yLpokafcth£poaition ,#£ affairs, ,ab <Kawuia, ..which iw,as, . simply, that pf , , tii-HCR, ;.wjxerp ;^!ui:ppeft))9. IWQj;l WQj;e i .,afc,on§;;Bide yftf.^tli.er; line and the natives at another, and if the former crossed that line they would be shot. Tho visit

of his 'Excellency had done good, but it was only temporary, and ho would ask them if they could say that the Urewherus on the East Coast wcr J subdued ? The Imperial Government had signally failed in attempting to govern the natives, and any Government would do the same from Wellington, even the Government of his hon. friend, whom lac trusted more than any other man in New Zealand. Ho had now shown the difficulties, and he trusted the House would let him go into Committee to point out the remedy, but ii they did not, he could only sjy that it was the duty of the hon. gentlemen on tho Treasury benches to bring in a measure on the subject. He thanked the Homo for the patient hearing they had given him. (The hon. gentleman then sat down amidst great applause.) Mr. E. GRAHAM seconded tho motion.

Mr. STAFFORD said that tho Government would have no objection to go into Committee to discuss the question, although they would give it their entire opposition. He had heard it rumored that there was a division in the Goyern-

inent on this subject, but ho might lake thia opportunity of saying that he knew of no foundation for that rumor. It had been said that the Government was like a ship in a calm, with its sails trimmed to meet any breeze of wind, but he would beg any hon. member holding that opinion to disabuse Ids mind of such a notion, and to believe that the Government, though entertaining tho highest respect for the opinions of the members of the Legislature, would bo guided by no one on tho grea!; and important questions that might como before them, such as this very question that was now under discussion, that of the defence of tho colony, and the finances of the country. (Hear, hear.) He would now move that tho'House go into Committee upon the resolutiotis at seven o'clock.

Mr. MOORHOUSE suggested that it would be better to take the whole question of separation in tho House, because if these resolutions were agreed to, thore would be other hon. members coming forward with propositions for separation of tho two islands, or separation of some other sort.

' The House {hen resolved itself into Committee, and almost immediately afterwards adjonrned for refreshments.

On the resumption of the Committee at seven o'clock, Mr. WHITAKER moved the first resolution, " That, in the opinion of this House, temporary provision should bo made for the Letter goTcvnnient of the province of Auckland." The Hon. Mr. STAFFORD, on rising to address tho Committee, said that he took this opportunity of' congratulating tho members on tho character and tone— (hear, hear)— of the speech -which had been delivered by the hon. member for Parnell (Mr. Whitaker). It was one which might have been expected from him ; there was throughout tho whole of his speech, while it was distinguished by that marked earnestness, which would bo expected ou such an important occasion, an entire absence of asperity or personal allusion, which he trusted hon. members -would follow through (he very important debate he had Introduced to the Legislature ; most certainly if any asperity should arise in tho heat of debate, it could not be attributed to the hon. member for Parnell on account of tho very courteous and forbearing tone with which he introduced tho subjecb for consideration. At tlie same timo, he thought he had a cause of complaint against the hon. member, although he (Mr. Whitaker) had incurred it unwittingly, for having sought to distinguish him as an administrator in public affairs to an extent he could not claim, for he would venture to speak of tho public men of New Zealand with a knowledge equal to that of the member for Parnell, and he recognised in this House many gentlemen able to conduct the affairs of Auckland with as great impartiality, assiduity, and success as he could venture to claim for him-

self. Tho lion, member (Mr. Whitaker) stated that he would confine himself to tho principle involved in tho whole question ; ho should, although, it would bo impossible in Committee to adhero -"as closely to that rule as in tho full House, also endeavor to treat this question and the resolutions, although they were many in number as one inseparable whole. He had briefly expressed on the motion for going into Committee tho disappointment with which ho had at first perused the resolutions, but it had been in a great measure removed by tho remarks made in the moving of them ; as Mr. Whituker had himself hinted at, ho had objected but of doors that I it was not worthy of one holding the high position that Mi 1 . Whitaker did, and deservedly so j of one who had been so long bofore tho public in the highest capacities, to have come down and submitted such an abstract proposition as that, some change Was wanted ; and ho was glad that Mr. Wmtaker had been induced to say so much. Ho (Mr. Stafford) as well as others, objected to his coining down witli a bald and inconclusive proposition, to say distinctly that a change was roquired, but to fail to indicate in what direction it should, bo made, and in what position this Legislature would be, if such a proposition was agreed to, was, ho fearlessly assertod, not what the House had a right to expect from a gentleman of such high standing ; he himself (Mi*. Wliitaker) felt thare was soma foundation for that or ho would not have allowed himself, pertinacious as ho was, to be turned away from his course as at first proposed. Ho had followed tho honorable member as well as it was possible to .follow one so distinguished for tho rapidity with which he expressed his thoughts ; and had taken a few notes and should proceed with the aid of them' to reply to his remarks. The honorable mombor had taken advantage of this being a now Fa -liamcnh to speak iii detail of certain portions of his subject ; indeed, if he had not been anew member himself, ho would not have dwelt on them so long as he did, nor used a tone so extremely cautionary as to talk of tho danger and ruin which might result if the change was not carried into effect. The hon. member in advocating the necessity for a change, abandoned. altogether the principle contained in his resolutionsj for he more than onco repeated that he was ready to listen to any proposal for a change ; if only they could agree to something as he tormod it ; and tho hon. member not only ' expressed himself as anxious to assist in having I that " something" procured for the province, I whoso interests he stntod ho was peculiarly advocating, but offered, in tho most generous and [ liberal manner to becomo constitution-monger to any other portion of tho colony. That was not a position which he believed the hon. member would, on reflection, think worthy of him. He (Mr. Stafford) did not reverence any mere paper constitution. Ho was awaro that there were many forms of Government which w.ould produce discontent, although tho form itself might not be bad, and that there were many forms of bad Government, under tho administration* of which there might bo conten'mont j but he did think it should be remembered, that whatever might be the defects of tho present constitution, to it they owed the liberties this country now enjoyed ; that both in tho General Assembly and the Provincial Councils, it vras the charter and defence of , tho •country's liberties ; arid that without it the Legislatures, both of tho colony and tho Provinces 'would have been niero debating societies.' Ho did not, therefore, think it right thata gentleman of such high standing as the mover of this resolution, should ask that this Constitution, under which as large a measure of liberty had been enjoyed as in any, colony, should bo lightly torn to pieces, until a constitution) giving .equal freedomof action and; discussion :could. be given inits place. What had the hon. mombor placed before . them ? He (Mr.* Stafford) oonfined. 'himself td th,p reßplutiopß and.irefu.sed. to be 'lodi.intQi.fcliacon' sicjera.tion „<?£,;t hos.e , propositions iSriiioh/ the hon. member' ' said ha believed would be made by members living too far South to

"be contented with the present, state of affairs. What did the hon. gentleman propose in those > resolutions— and he would confinehimseM entirely .to the resolutions ? He found that while the , ! people of Auckland wanted the whole authority ■ over their own affajra, they also wanted to come i into that House and take part in the legislation of the Colony ; he found that while they wanted the whole of the revenue of their own Province, • they also wanted to obtain a portion of the reve- : nucs of the rest of the Colony— to dip their hands > into the pocketß of the South. It was a proposal, ' ono of the most audacious he had ever heard. > (Hear, hear.) The hon. member had made much ■ about the absence of documents from Auckland ' which were required in. the Land Court; to which he might say that had that gentleman: couched his first letter in the same terms that he

had done the last, those documents would have been sent up at once, thousth he had failed entirely even now to show that they were required. The hon. gentleman's objections to the Land Court were twofold, first, that clue notice

of ibs sittings was not given. To this he might reply tliufc the presiding Judge of the Courts was written to to give clue notice of these sittings, and further, that an Order in Council was passed that such notice should be given. Ho would challenge the lion, gentleman ' to say that an adjournment had not been granted whenever it was asked for. The next point that the hon. gentleman sought to malee — and lie gave him credit for ingenuity in the attempt, though -ho was on the horns of a dilemma, when he said that the originals of these documents wei'e required in Court. If the hon. gentleman would refer to the Statute Book he would sco that certified . copies were admitted in every Court. If this was a defect in the law it was remediable by the Legislature in Wellington,

or by one in Auckland, oven were it established there, and therefore' this point was lost, as it could in no way affect the geographical position of the Province of Auckland. The hon. gentle-. man had said that it was the duty of theGtoTernment to bring down some such measure as that now before them : . but he might say that

the Government could not do so, bocciuse.it could not frame a measure within the four corners of Mr. Cardwell's despatch that would satisfy the

people of Auckland and be Just; to the rest of the Colony. He mighl; go as. far as to say. that he . had erai sab down to attempt to do it, but could nofc. The hon f gentleman proposed a change acceptable to the people of luckland, without an y" any consideration for the rest of the colony, and he might say that that vras a thing which, the Government of the colony could neither do themselves nor accept from another. (Hear, hear.) However much he might recognise the fact that . time might necessitate cortain changes, he for one would always be opposed to violent- .changes, . whether he was in or out of office. (Hear, hear.) Then, tho lion, gentleman had said that it waf the duty of the Government to remedy grievances. He would refer the House in the case of Ireland, and ask was it likely that the Government of England would bring down a measure to remedy the grievances there, by giving that country a Government of its own, having, also a shar« . in the Government of England? No, the measure they brought down was the suspension of the Habeas "Corpus Act. , (Laughter.) He could assure the people of Auckland, however, that ha was not going to bring down such a measure. (Laughter.) The hon. gentleman hud compared Auckland with other places under the British Crown, and shown that it was. -larger than som» ? . of those which were distinct colouies ; but thej wore islands, or countii-s by their geographical position totally distinct to themselves, aud Auokland was not this. It was a portion of an, empire — that was what it was— and what they had to, do, if any change was necessary, , which migh^ba, the case, was to bring things back to their normal condition, not to separate the province from the

rest of colony. Notwithstanding what thehori., gentleman had said to frighten young member* about the state of the natives, he might say that , their power to do evil was daily decreasing, in th» . daily decrease of their numbers. (Hoar, hear.) If the hon. gentleman thought thatra warning wot necessary fco the gentlemen of tbe Middle Island, why did not he give them that warning when ha was Prime Minister of the colony ? (Hear, hear.) Why did he not then say to them, " Go in peace, do not venture your money or endanger your safety, but loa7o' us ■ to" : ' take : '"care of ourselves ?" The hon. gentleman said that he had ■ always boen a separationist, why did he not at some time throughout those many years when ha was in office, say to the Middle Island gentlemen, )' I warn you not to venture." " (Hear, hear.) 'No, he waited and he came down now that he had gofe their money, and sakl, " I warn you of the South, and especially yo canny men of Dunedin, not to ■ 'Venture for the North," (Loud cheering.) The lion, gentleman then alluded to the Northern Association, and in doing so said "Give me something and I will givo any of you gentlemen from other provinces, who are discontent, every assistance to draft anew Constitution." He. wanted' separation of some sort, and in his desire for it did not mind even if ho could get the powerof ruling over three other provinces. . What did insular separation mean ? Simply the domination, of one province over three othars.more distinct in their requirements from that one than they wore from the provinces of the South Island t (Hear, hear.) In fact, it was a piece of pai'liamentary tactics throughout, on the part of the hon. member to leave this indefinite notion of what Separation he wanted, and he must say that such a course was hardly a worthy one for a gentleman who stood forward as the champion of the cause. Then he said in language not very complimentary, that he would not "trust the Provincial Council and Superintendent of Auckland with the management of native affairs, but he (Mr. Stafford) would aßk if they had a Provincial Assembly, where ha wonld got its members, if not from among th« vory men who formed that Council, aid what right had he to throw dirfc at those men as Provincial Councillors whom he would, take his hat off to as members of the Provincial Assombly ? (Hear, hear.) Why had the hon gentleman when himself a Minister of the Crown, not proposed the abolition of elective Superintendents and the substitution of Licut.-Governors ? Now, ■ ho would riay a word upon Liout.-Governorfl. Such an official would have no power except just what was conferred upon him by Act of Parliament. He was a myth, and unless the hon. gentleman denned the office more exactly, such an official must be looked upon as a useless animal. Did the hon. member wish to be a DeputyGovernor of the Province "of Auckland? Why, • rf he had only said so, the Government would have made him one long ago. (Laughter, and hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman had- always complained nftorwardsof what had not been done, but never showed what ought to be done. Thig was the case at Opotiki, and there ho might Bay* that through the course -taken by the hon.gentl«>. ' man himself, a gi^at many of the difficulties had/ been caused. Now the hon. gentlemau had corny plainod of the Compensation and Lands Courtß.' 1 * These were matters WhicH the Executive" could ! take no action in. ' The Legislature had doliber-* atoly authorised these Courts, and the represent 5 tntives of Auckland themselves had given their consent to the Act under whioh they, were" con- ' stitu'ted— indeed it was greatly in consequence of their de3ire that it was passed, so that it little • became the hon. member now' to "come forward" and complain of if. Bk would acknowledge that :i these Courts' had 'pfcrhajk'a little* voutridaen thi 1 " horse/but * that was a question of law, and not' of £ geographical pbßitionp'and he -would etan eay ■'■ that; 1 the' ! non. ] '|entWmail- 'himself- had^.bl^tfasked: tb' ( Wgge6t JiaomSJ^emyitly/vbut 'he-had^ not yet done so, and until he had proved that the present laws could nob be judioiously umended

he had no right to ask that they should go back . ] to the old system. Tho hon. member had then > i alluded to those sad events on the East Coast . i which would never be forgotten, and said that j i they were caused through the absence of a Go- j ) vermnent on the spot ; but he would ask whether when he himself (Mr. Stafford) was in the Go- : vernment of Auckland, events equally mehn- J ' choly and embarrassing to the Government had i ' not occurred f Take for example, Taranaki, which was within eight or ten hours of Auck- • land, and let him say if proximity .to the Government hud prevented disaster. (Hear, he.ir.) If there was this necessity for Government on the , 6pot, what would the hon. gentleman say about Poverty Bay ? Would he say that Auckland could administer native affairs better there than I at Ilawkc's Bay? (Laughter, and hear, hear.) He nailed tho hon. gentleman to that, and claimed from him that he should at once sign that petition which had been presented from the settlers of that district. (Laughter and hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman had alluded to the discontent in the South, and appeared to say that the only dis- , satisfaction waa against the General Government, , • and not at all against 'the Provincial Government. (Hear, hear.) He might tell his hon. and learned , friend that there was a great deal more discon- . tent against the latter than the former, and that the same was the case in Auckland, where ho had lived for many years ' himself and saw the j greatest bitterness existing between the different j portions of the Province... There were causes of i dissatisfaction against; both General and Provin- ! cial Governments in all parts of the Colony, but j that wa3 no reason for' Separation. In fact, the j hon. gentleman's, organ of destructivenesa was j ■ predominant just now ; he wanted Supoririten- , dents destroyed, General Government, destroyed, ' and Provincial Governments destroyed. He did : not think that the hon. gentleman had made j much out of his naliveaffairs. It was impossible ]■ for Governments in their own provinces to have i the sole control over the natives there, as they j niiglifc &<iq in tho late war when natives £mjim all i parts were engaged. Why the very fact of a J defeat of rebels in Auckland would at once cause , them to go into Taranaki or Hawke's Bay, and j what would the hon. gentleman do then ? Hisproposal "was really summarised thus, thut the General Assembly should subsidize Auckland to drive the rebels from there ivto Taranaki aud Htvwke's Bay — the adjoining -Provinces. (Hear, j hear.) Tho hon. gentleman said that his proposition was just the surne as that of Lord Grey, ! but he could easily 6how thut it was totally different. (Hear, hear.) By Lord Grey's proposition the Lieut-Governor had to wait for his instructions from the Governor with the advice of his Executive, and ho supposed the hon. ' gentleman did- not want that. That gentleman did not define tke powers of the proposed Provincial Government, but said that in certain ] cases the powers should be concurrent with those , of the General Government, as for instance, in . marriage laws, so that a in an might be married under the law of Auckland and unmarried under . the law of the rest of the Colony, and in the currency, so that bank notes of Auckland might be of no use elsewhere. (Hear'hear.) Lord Grey's : proposition was something very different from this, and was intended for a place made distinct "by gcogrnphicul position. There were the law 3 ef heirship also, where the boundaries between ' Auckland and one of the neighbouring Provinces were most undefined/ and where a man might i and have them run ning right through his property, would have to will away one portion under one ; liw and another under another. ,Ec would, put it to the hon. gentleman as a member of the legal \ profession, if he seriously meant that that should be, or that the Provincial Government diould have concurrent power with the General Govern- | naent in judicial matters. The hon. member never ! could have believed that these propositions would find favor with the Legislature, but he wns quite right in asking the Legislature to consider any | grievances that might be supposed to exist. Tho ' hon. gentleman had alluded -to the case of the Arawas, and he (Mr. Stafford) was glad to have an opportunity of making an explanation on this subject. The Arawns was never cnlled out by tho ] Government, but turned out voluntarily, through ■ come old tribal disputes, and when they were ] getting beaten they applied to the Government ] for assistance, which was given them in arms, ' food, and clothing. In addition to this, they were i offered £3,000 to compensate them for the loss of i m their cultivations, £1,500 to be paid at once, and £1,500 when they took Kereopa, and they also j got a large strip of land. If, then, tho Arawas ; complained, they did so without cause, and he was glad, to see that bis hon. friend for Newton (Mr. G-. Graham) quite agreed with him, and [ was even ready to pay them for their services in ; quite another way. (Laughter.) The hon. I gentleman said that the Arawas were constantly in Auckland, and could have had their grievances . readily redressed if there was a Government there, but ho could assure him that they could not possibly have got more than they had done now. The lion, member for Napier (Mr. McLean) often settled native dispute* 'without referring to the GenerarGovernraenfc, and he would ask why did not the hon. member for Parnell do the same, and he might be certain of being borne, out in < his action by tho General Government. Then tho hon. member had referrad to the proposed Defence Force, and very properly so. The Government thought that a force was required for •»3me time to come, at all events, and believed that it would have to be used chiefly between this and Taranaki.. When the time came, the exact details would be laid before the House, but he might state that he believed the proposed force would be found amply sufficient, even for an outbreak in the Province of Auckland. He kad not referred to all the points of tho hon. gentleman's speech, but there would be another opportunity for doing so if necessary, and he would now content himself with saying that the Legislature of New Zealand could in no way assent to these resolutions, however much it might wish to improve the Government of ' Auckland, and therefore the Government could in no way;;entertain tho propositions. (Loud cheering.) Mr. DICK said that he would not have risen so c irly in the debate, but that it was his intention t > move a series of amendments on the resolutions, making them apply to the Colony gener .l!y, instead of to the Province of Auckland in particular. It was not necessary for him to say much on the subject, as it was evident that every member had made up his mind how he would vote. (Hear, hear.) What was good for Auckland was good for the other Provinces, and he thought that Auckland would be justified in asking for this additional power, not for herself alone, but for. air the rest of the Colony. The Province of Otago felt keenly the necessity of having extra power. Tafce, for instance, the gold-fields, how could they' work them under the existing regulations ? , The whole arrangement showed tho necessity of giving greater power to the Province ; as another illustration of, the nscessity of this, he would refer hon. members to fie land regulations which had to be made or atered by the. General Government instead of tho Provinces. He (Mr. Dick) was very much nstonished to have heard the hon. member for Parnell run down Provincial Councils, as they were well able to pnss their own laws, and could do full justice to the mattera brought before them. The Middle Island had been paying heavily for the native war, and they now hoped fiat it would be brought, to a conclusion, and he . believed that if the Sputh were to close the puree- \ .Yfcrings the war would, very Boon be put an end to. If the South — as they had been accused-^- --„ JiaAa large, share in starting the war, they had . a large shqre in, the expense, and had .a righfc.to pp- - ;< feet tp'idijtic'ibUt^ that nVotiey longer fpr.the benfe«i tit itf'the T' Northern liland. If he nftd'h»p choice

he would at present go in for separation of the North and South Island — a complete insular separation, but this could nob now be done. He hoped, however, at a future time to sco the Colony ft thoroughly united one. He would propose as an amendment to the first resolution that it read thus, " In the opinion of this House temporary provision should be made for the better government of the Calony of New Zcalnnd." The CHAIRMAN then read Mr. Dick's amendment. On the question that "the words proposed to be left out stand part of the question," tho House divided as follows : — . Ayes, 42— Stafford (teller), FitzGerald (teller); Armstrong, Atkinson, Baldwin, Beauchamp, Bell, Beswick, Borlase, Brandon, Bryce, Bunny, Camp-; bell, Cox, Curtis, Eyes, Featherston, Fitzhorbert, Hall, Hankinson, Hough! on, Haultain, Jollie, Lutllam, McLean, McNeil, Morrison, Oliver, C. O'Neill, Ormand, Parker, Paterson, Richardson, A. J. Richmond, J. C. Richmond, Stevens, Taylor, Walker, Watt, Wells, Wilson. Noe3 24— Dick (teller), John Williamson (teller) ; Ball, Burns, Cargill, Clark, De Quincey, Gh Graham, R. Graham, Hargreaves, Hull, Hepburn, Macandrew, Moorhouse, Newman, J. O'Neill, O'Rorke, Reid, Reynolds, Yogel, Ward, Whitaker, James Williamson, Wood. The announcement of the division was received with cheers. Mr. JAS. O'NEILL said that after such a rote it was hardly any use for Auckland to proceed. This was evidently a foregone conclusion, and it was useless for Auckland to seek for her interests in that House, or from a Government which had so evident a majority in the House. There were few but were persuaded that Auckland must have a better Government than they now had, if they were to live at peace with their neighbors. .It was well for the South to go to their peaceful homes and recommend those of the North to go and fight ; but the men of the South had nover sent their well drilled volunteers' to save the youths and even the children being sent to fight for their homes. The Assembly had been called together to do justico to the provinces, and to redress tho wrongs of the country, and yet the representatives refused to listen to this crying necessity and trouble of Auckland. It was useless to address the Hoii3e ; the lion, member at the head of the G-ovcrmnent had said that they would not have that justico done them which they asked- This was a new Parliament, but probably members now voted differently than they would do if it was the last Session. Mr. YOGEL thought that the House had acted precipitately in committing the question to a vote at so early a date. Ho did not think lion, members understood precisely the condition in which it stood. He would confine himself to speaking upon that point, us he intended to speak upon the subject oi the resolutions at a later dato. The hon. member at the head of the Government had made a very clever speech, but he had thrown the House off the scent. It was a poor return to make to the mover of the resolutions for the masterly speech he had delivered. Mr Stafford had, with great cleverness, set himself to a hostile criticism of the letter, not the spirit, of Mr. Whitaker's address. He would at once to take the opportunity of admitting, that in opposing separation, Mr. Stafford was riot false to tho friends who helped to place him in office. Favorable as*they were to it, they knew he was not, but they hailed his assuming tho reins of Government on other grounds. He would also say that the accession of Mr. Stafford to office was one of the greatest blessings that could have happened to the country. The greater part of the objections taken to these resolutions by the member at the head of the Government was that the requirements applied only to Auckland. If he (Mi 1 . Togel) were asked to vote for these resolutions as they stood he would object tai them, for he would be an opponent to dealing with Auckland singly. But it appeared to him that the hon. member for Parnell had brought them before them to show the necessities of Auckland, and to endeavor to get a proposul which would bo applicable to the whole of tho colony. Mr. Stafford himself hud forced upon the hon. member this position, and now took advantage of it to attack him. This separation movement was not a mere frivolous matter, but one which was assuming a most important position, and which, having its base in the hearts of the great mass of the people, must eventually terminate more or less Buscessfully. (Cries . of hear, hear, and no, no.) There was not a single member returned for Auckland who was not professedly a separationisfe, nor were there a new election, would there be above three members returned for Otago who did not profess the same creed. He' hoped that the Hon. the Postmaster-General would explain to the House how it was that his opinions on the question of separation had been so changed since he had been gazetted to office. A great many people delayed giving a vote, as they could not see how they were to be guaranteed against giving future aid, supposing Auckland were granted separation. But, as he understood Mr. Whitaker, if an arrangement were come to, its fulfilment would be guaranteed by the whole taxing power of its inhabitants, (hear, hear, from Mr. Whitaker), aud that meant by the whole of their individual resources. Surely the taxing capabilities of the province were a sufficient guarantee. Mr. J. C. RICHMOND moved the adjournment of the debate. The debate was accordingly adjourned, and the adjourned debate made tho first order of the day i for Wednesday. The House adjourned at 10 p.m.