House Debates Further The Appointment Of Undischarged Bankrupt To Overseas Post

Wanganui Chronicle, 27 November 1948, Page 6

House Debates Further The Appointment Of Undischarged Bankrupt To Overseas Post

Sufficient Money Had Been Paid To Facilitate Discharge

PARLIAMENT BLDGS.. Last Night (PA). —An unexpected debate arose in the Douse of Representatives today, during debate on the Supplementary Estimates, when Mr. \V. A. Bodkin (Opp., Central Otago) moved that the vote for the Department of Labour and Employment be reduced by £5OOO to enable the House to express its dissatisfaction that the Government had not indicated what action it proposed to take over the appointment of an undischarged bankrupt to a high post in the Public Service overseas.

(This matter, the appointment of Mr. W. G. Simpson, as the chief selection officer in London for immigrants, was previously debated in the House on October

Mr. Bodkin said he accepted without reservation Mr. McLagan’s statement on that occasion that he Knew nothing of the matter at the time tne appointment was made, but since the matter had been brought up in the House it could not be allowed to rest. Mr. W. A. Sheat (Opp., Patea), first raised the matter in the House because the creditors of Mr. Simpson were complaining bitterly about his having left the country.

“This man has been guilty of very disreputable conduct,” said Mr. Bodkin. There was no excuse for his not having paid the small sum required of him to secure his discharge. He would not have been given a passport had he owed money to the Income Tax Department and private creditors should get the same protection. He deserved no consideration at ad and should be compelled to repay the whole amount in instalments. The Public Service had an advances fund from which he could have obtained the money to repay his creditors before going to London. A statement should be made of what was being done by the Government to rectify the position. The Minister ,of Labour (Mr. McLagan) said it wps difficult to understand how Mr. Bodkin could find Mr. ( Simpson guilty of “disreputable conduct’* and deserving no consideration when Mr. Bodkin had also admitted he did not know all the circumstances of the case. There were some bankrupts who deserved no consideration—political bankrupts, who, if they got their deserts, would be in a different position than that in which they stood today. The man concerned in this case had gone bankrupt largely because of his generosity in the depression days. He had been very generous to some of those who were now hounding him. He had committed an unpardonable offence in their eyes— Mr. Bodkin: By leaving the country.

Mr. McLagan: By holding the political views he does. Mr. McLagan said he had learned since the appointment was previously discussed in the House that Mr. Simpson, before going to London, told the Public Service Commissioner that he was an undischarged bankrupt The Commissioner investigated and found nothing discreditable in the circumstances and approved of the appointment. Mr. Simnsan Jhen went to the Deputy Official Assignee and said he wanted to arrange for his discharge, but the D O.A. said there was not time before his boat sailed for Mr. Simpson to complete the necessary legal formalities. Mr Simpson, therefore, went to a solicitor and gave him power of attorney and sufficient money to arrange for his discharge from bankruptcy. Mr. McLagan said the matter had been brought up by those who, if they had any proper feelings about past events, would not be snapping at this man's heels. Mr. McLagan said some of those who were hounding Mr. Simpson were those who had soured old friendships. They had confessed that they had waited until he left the country and could not answer back. MANY INTERJECTIONS. There were many interjections during this part of Mr. McLagan’s speech. He said that if any bankruptcy deserved no consideration it was the bankruptcy shown in this appalling attempt to hound a man who could not answer back. Mr. A. S. Sutherland (Opp., Hauraki) said that if the Min.-?—knew the facts he had given the House today he should have made an earlier statement to members. The Minister of Defence (Mr. Jones) sand he was surprised that a vendetta had been raised against this officer. During the war vears he had never found a more valuable servant than in Mr. Simpson. He was a butcher and established general butcheries and saved tne country thousands of pounds by the elimination of waste in various camps and stations. He also selected and trained butchers and taught them how to cut up carcases. Mr. Simpson had made some enemies when he went to the camps and found that contractors had supplied meat which was under gvade, underweight and not the right type. Mr. Jones said- he was surprised and disgusted that the Opposition should raise a vendetta against the man.

Mr G. H. Mackley (Opp. Wairarapa) denied that the Opposition was making an attack on Mr Simpson, but it did attack the Government for allowing Mr. Simpson to be appointed to the position he now occupied. The Minister of Labour had indicated that Mr. Simpson’s trouble was the result of his generosity, but, said Mr. Mackley, he bad yet to learn that generosity should come first, before integrity and justice. It was the duty of the Government to see that the standards laid down should be applied and as the Government failed to apply them in this case, it was a reflection of its administration. A small amount of money was involved, and Mr. Simpson should have been able to obtain his discharge quite simply. Every decent man would have endeavoured to have paid twenty shillings in the £. A wave of dissatisfaction had spread over the country when it became known that a man of Mr. Simpson’s type had been appointed to such an important position. The acting Prime Minister (Mr. Nash) questioned If such a vendetta was fair, and he wondered if the member who raised the matter had accepted the hospitality of the man concerned. Since the matter had been raised he had seen the tile and he could support what the Minister of Labour had said, except to add that what had been said had prevented the man concerned making his living in the Old Country. Mr. Nash said it was unfair to puli a man's character to pieces when he had no chance of defending himself. It had not been possible for the man to obtain his discharge before he left the country. His appointment was for two yeads. Mr. Nash said he was dumbfounded l hat anyone should .seize such an occasion to attack a man who could not defend himself. . Up had never before heard any debate like the present one

and had never known or a case where a man outside the House had had his character attacked as was being done in tills instance.

Mr. W. A. Sheat (Opp., Patea) said the acting Prime Minister had suggested that he (Mr. Sheat) had contributed io Mr. Simpson’s bankruptcy by accepting his hospitality. He had on occasions accepted Mr. Simpson’s hospitality and it had been returned. They had not been on intimate terms for seven years before Mr. Simpson went bankrmupt. There had never been a man who had taken his friends down as Mr. Simpson had done, and it was not his generosity that had caused his bankruptcy. He went bankrupt because he traded on the generosity of other people. ATTACH OX GOVERNMENT.

Mr. Sheat said that the whole issue was that he had attacked the Government for appointing Mr. Simpson. It was laughable for the Government to think it was going to slide out by saying that Mr. Simpson had gone bankrupt because of his generosity. Mr. Simpson had taken down his best friends shamefully, and if the Government was prepared to investigate impartially tne circumstances of the bankruptcy it would come to the conclusion that Mr. Simpson was not a fit and proper person to represent New Zealand overseas, and would recall him. The whole matter had been made a personal issue by the Government.

Mr. McLagan said that the member for Wairarapa had asked why the question of asking for the papers to be tabled had not been answered. The member for Wairaraapa could have said that ’no replies had been tabled since that question was asked, but he preferred to imply that there was something sinister. Mr. McLagan said his reply was ready to be tabled and it would state that the papers were all available for inspection. Mr. Simpson had left sufficient money behind him to obtain his discharge. The Public Service Commission had examined the papers and considered there was nothing personally discreditable in Mr. Simpson’s bankruptcy. It was regrettable that the matter was not raised when the man was in the country. Mr. McLagan said there could be a completely innocent bankruptcy. There had been repeated allegations by way of interjections that there had been political jobbery and favouritism in Mr. Simpson’s appointment, but the present Government’s record was far better than the record of previous Government's in that respect. Mr. M. H. Oram (Opp., Manawatu) sa .d all Mr. Simpson had to do to obtain his discharge was to sign an application for it and advertise in the newspapers, and he could have left the country the following day. The only thing that could have prevented him getting his discharge was if the official assignee was not prepared to recommend it and the creditors wanted a public examination. PUBLIC DUTY.

Mr. Sheat said he had raised the matter as a public duty, and had he not done so he would have been considered a party to the appointment. He had not attacked Mr Simpson, but the'Government and had just stated the facts of the case, if he was to be accused of attack under cover of privilege, he would remind members of an attack made by the Minister of Works on a woman during an address in the House. Mr. T. E. Skinner (Govt., Tamaki) said the Government did not measure people by the size of their purse. There must be many citizens who had been bankrupted through the actions of the previous Government and who had not yet obtained their dis-

Dr. A. M. Finlay (Govt., North Shore) said that if the member for Patea felt himself under a duty to Mr. Simpson’s creditors, he should have seen the Minister before Mr. Simpson’s departure instead of raising the matter when he did. Mr. W. H. Bodkin (Opp., Central Otago) asked why Mr. Simpson had not deposited the money referred to

with the official assignee, who would have made a distribution? Mr. F. Langstone (Govt., Roskill) said the member for Palea had raised the matter for more miserable and despicable political spleen. The action of the Opposition was like the raising of corpses from the grave—it smelled! Mr. Simpson had been employed by the Government for some years and there was no difference whether he was paid in Wellington or in London. It was disgraceful that the House should be occupied with this sort of discussion.

The Minister of Works (Mr. Semple) said he had not slandered

any woman in the House. He had merely taken to task a woman who outraged the moral character of men and women in the Labour movement by stating, before the female staff of an institution that if Labour was returned it would not be safe for a woman to walk down the street. Mr. Bodkin: You were invited by her solicitor to repeat your statement outside the House. Mr. McLagan said that had the Op position been sincerely desirous of serving the public interest they would have come to him. His department would Have inquired into the case and taken any steps necessary. AMOUNT SI I 111 TENT lOR DISCHARGE. His department had checked, and an amount sufficient to complete the discharge had been paid over and th ■ final dividends had been posted to all creditors. An Opposition voice: When? Mr. McLagan: 1 do not know the date. Mr. McLagan went on to say that Mr. Simpsons appointment was a I’ublic Service one and he quoted from departmental files complimentary reports on his work. The Minister said he had also received a letter from a gentleman who admitted he was a National supporter and no friend of Mr. Simpson's. Mr. Sheat: From Hawera? Mr. McLagan: Yes. Mr. Sheat: A solicitor? Mr. McLagan: Yes. Mr. Sheat: Mr. Taylor? Mr. McLagan: Taylor is the nam*-. Mr. McLagan quoted the letter, which said that the writer had acted as Mr. Simpson’s solicitor. Mr. Simpson was too goodhearted, and the

writer knew something of how many goods he gave to the needy. Mr. Sheat said that if the Government dfd not know the facts at least there was some obligation on Mr. Simpson to have been frank with the people making the appointment. He said he still had every reason Io believe that the Government made the appointment in the knowledge that Mr. Simpson was an undischarged bankrupt. He was, however, prepared to accept the Minister’s assurance that he knew nothing of the circumstances. The debate concluded shortly afterwards without any reduction in the vote. A division was not called for.