PLEAS OF “NOT GUILTY”

Wanganui Chronicle, Volume 83, Issue 92, 20 April 1939, Page 8

PLEAS OF “NOT GUILTY”

PIHA FIRE CASE LOWER COURT HEARING CONCLUDES ACCUSED COMMITTED FOR TRIAL i Per Pres.- Association. 1 AUCKLAND. April 19. With pleas of “not guilty’’ from Gordon Robert McKay, alias Tom BowlanJs, wool and skin dealer, aged 43, and James Arthur Talbot, labourer, aged 38, both Australians, the Lower Court hearing of the Piha case concluded to-day when Mr. Orr Walker, S.M., committed both men to the Supreme Court for trial. The hearing, which closed at six o’clock to-night, had occupied two full days and involved 40 witnesses. McKay and Talbot were jointly charged with improperly interfering with a dead human body, that of Patrick Henry Shine, at Auckland on February 10. and with wilfully setting fire to the dwelling house of Florence Jessie Thomas, thereby committing arson at Piha on February 12. Mr. R. J. C. Sanderson appeared for McKay, and Mr. J. Terry for Talbot. Detective-Sergeant Nalder prosecuted. Evidence given by medical men and i the Government analyst occupied J most of the morning, and practically l the whole of the afternoon was S.iken up with that of the two investigating ; detectives who had been engaged in the case. The crowd of spectators b listened at the morning session was as large as that of the previous day. but in the afternoon the numbers , gradually lessened. When the Court • rose only 12 persons, three of them 1 women, remained in the public enclosure. The first witness to-day was Constable Pollard, of Henderson, who ar- | rived at Piha at 6.30 on the morning : of Sunday, February 12. when the bach fire was still smouldering. He looked for human remains and no- ! ticed a patch in the embers still burn- i ing. He threw seven buckets of water ' on the patch and saw a human skull • and other bones. He covered the re-' mains with two cement bags. He * interviewed Talbot at Winter’s place. Talbot’s Statement. Witness produced a statement . signed by Talbot, in which he said he | and McKay had come from Australia with a view to opening business in New Zealand. McKay had had trouble |. with his teeth and on the Saturday had had several extracted. They had come to Piha for a few days’ rest. He (Talbot) went to Auckland to keep an appointment and returned at 11.30 p.m. He gave McKay a cup of tea in bed, but did not see him again. He was awakened about 1.30 a.m. by a noise. The two back rooms were ! 5 full of smoke, and when he opened the door to McKay's room it was full of t flame. He called to McKay, but got 2 no reply. After trying to find a ; bucket he went to get help from c neighbours. The statement added 2 that he now knew McKay had been < incinerated. Replying to questions, witness said \ that Talbot stated he had no doubt t that the fire had started in McKay s rooms, as flames were coming through the joints of the door and. underneath. Mr. Sanders (for McKay): 1 ask t Your Worship to take notice of my . formal objection to the a.::mi. ion that statement as evidence against ) McKay. Mr. Orr Walker, S.M.: Yes, Mr. > Sanderson. Witness said that Talbot’s hair and i eyebrows were singed and his face 2 was very red. Witness took the bones x in a box to the Henderson police i station, keeping them locked up until he took them to the morgue for the i opening of an inquest that day. Ring Found in Debris. Constable Pollard added that when - he and detectives subsequently sieved . debris at the fire they lound a signet , ring, also a large number of small \ bones. Witness was present when a . grave was opened at Waikumete and f the coffin removed with a plate in- 1 scribed, ‘Gordon Robert McKay, died \ February 12, 1939, aged 43 years.” f The coffin contained th? remains ‘ which he took to the morgue. Frederick Daniel Miller hospital at- ' tendant, said that he placed a crucifix | ’* and a rosary around deceased’s neck. s Cyril Phelan, a motor driver for ; undertakers, and Edwin Stanley Barker, a hearse driver, gave evidence concerning a burial casket bearing the ‘ name of McKay. The latter said he recognised Talbot as one of those present at the funeral. j r Cables Produced. William George Leyland, inquiry ' ‘ officer employed by the Postal and ■ ‘ Telegraph Department at Auckland, ' said the Minister-in-charge had i 1 authorised him to produce cablegrams ' * endorsed by the sender as either “J” ; ' or “J. A.” Talbot, of 14 Hardinge j Street. Witness produced nine origi- ' nal cablegrams. One addressed to a j Sydney solicitor, read: “Gordon Me- „ Kay burnt to death seaside cottage at • 1.30 this morning. Practically no re-I * mains. Leave informing family to , your judgment. Lost everything. ; ‘ Writing fully to family. Signed. Jim | Talbot.” A fifth cable, addressed to •■[ John McKay, was as follows: “Fune- -j ral yesterday. Inquest temporarily ; n held up waiting family particular-. s Have since arrived. Posting certifi- a cate as soon as possible. Thanks for J remittance. Signed Jim.” A sixth /. cable, addressed to McKay, stated: n ‘ “Police investigating possibility of a suicide or foul play. Companies employing two leading barristers here, presumably for inquest.” A later cable q said: “Arranging counsel protect your interests. Please remit twenty / pounds.” A ninth cable said: “Re- !' ceived remittance. Thanks. Please ? don’t remit unless I send. May be ! c home soon. Writing to-day.” g' Pathologist’s Evidence. Dr. Walter Gilmour, pathologist at a the Auckland Public Hospital, said he received from Dr. Williams on March di 3 portions of a human body. These he a

I examined in collaboration with Di Keneth MacCormick and Fowlt ; They consisted of pieces of bone sho\ • ing various degrees of burning, wi some pieces of flesh still preset “From the fact that pieces of boi from practically ail pans of a hum< skull were found, I concluded that whole human body had been burned said Dr. Gilmour, He added: ‘ The d gree of burning was very unequ; some portions of the skull and shou der were only slightly burnt, win others were completely incinerate The severe degree of burning was coi sistent with a oody having been was ed by disease and also having bet drained of all fluid as a result of post-mortem examination, but even . i a severe degree of burning of son i parts was indicated, i’hey must has I oeen exposed to a very fierce neat. / 1 regards the sex of the body, no bom i were found which were cnaracterisi !ci either a male or female. The musci 'lai marking of the bones, now eve j were more suggestive of a male the J a female. As regards age, the bom i were definitely inose or an adult, ’concluded the bones w?re those of miudle-aged adult.'’ I Mr. Oir Walker: Of what age? ■ Witness: All 1 can say is that ' would not be less than ’ Nothing was found to indicate th cause of death,” he added. ”I'l , presence, however, of a wad of cotto wool adherent to the palate bone ind I cated that the body had been laid ou after death, preparatory to burial, an i that therefore the body must ha\ ; been burnt after death.' ! Dr. E. F. Fowler, pathologist, sai . ;hai in company with Drs. Gilmou i ami MacCormick he had made an e> ' amination of the exhibits produce, He agreed with the conclusions give , in ev.deuce by Dr. Gilmour. Objection to Evidence. J?hn Hindmarsh, assistant general secretary to the -Mutual an , insurance Company, jLimitec i iyuiity, was next calleu. ueloru n I gave c-.idence both counsel, Mr. Terr, - . . that thei , objection to tuch eciaence siioulu o j noted. i 15, 193; ihe received a proposal lor insurance from G inion koi i Mctvay. McKa; was broug.ic to witness by the gen I oral-secretary of the company. Det ctive-b ig am Namer; Can yot I see McKay her res. He is the mai see in me dock. [ Particulars in the proposal forn had been pre ! viousiy insured on September IL. / life insurance policy for 125,500 wa; 'issued to acuas-e., i.icKay, by witness com . nicy was st ill in forct .on February 12 last. 1 : Ila.your company received any written dcKa> ’’ ! Yes; on February 16 from Dudley ■ Westgarth and Company, solicitors iG -orge Select, Syciney. Did that notification notify you o. •. . the death occurred?—lt jus ■ said it was in Auckland. Mr. Orr Walker: 1 suppose it was just a formal one. —Yes. Dctective-Sci geant Trethewey then produced a copy of a notification which Mr. Terry perused. The two accused are well known - • . .ni L. C. A. Alford, detective-sergeant in the New South Wale s police force and oflicer-in-charge of the detectives ac Newcastle. ‘McKay, he added, resided for many years at Burv.ood, h ilb t living tl re, too. They have al- ■ various activities together for many years,” he said. Talbot Interviewed. Dct-ctivc-S erg .ant John Trethewey said that in company with Detective Slater, he interview ed Talbot on February 17 and took a statement from him. In the statement Talbot said that a tei arrival at Piha he drove back to Auckland alone. At that time McKay was feeling fine. Talbot's siate••i came back to Auckland as I had an appointment with a young lady. I do not Know the name or address of this young lady. ... she " ■ ks. met her the previous day in the fish b > , o >p >site the post oiiice. She was . /’ii'.g a; th? same table as me when I know her first ij c '-. . I'hat Saturday, 1- ebruarv 11, 1 was to meet her at the I went to the fice but she did not turn up. \vh?n 1 did not meet the young lady as a: rang (i. I walked about the street for a while and then drove bacK to Fiha.” Talbot said ho know McKay was insured and he thought it was for a total of £40,000. He- knew one in. i rancc was taken out just before McKav went to London. He knew also that McKay wore a signet ring v ith his initials on it. Talbot never saw him with the ring off. He used to wear it while he was in bed. In his statement Talbot gave a description of the girl “Madge,” whom he said he had arranged to meet. Police Investigations After he had read Talbot’s statement, Detecti\e-Sergeant Trethewey, m further evidence, described the police investigations at length. At 3 a.m. on March 10, witness was present at the cemetery when the grave of Shine was opened. The lid on the casket was unfastened and would lift off. The casket name plate bore the lettering, “Patrick Henry Shine, died February 8. 1939, aged 54, R.1.P.” On top of the casket was found two casket screws and on top of the grave among the clay was a piece of rope. The lid of the casket taken from Shine's grave contained no screws and when it was removed it was found that there was no body’ in the casket. At 9.45 that morning, witness saw Talbot on the footpath. He spoke to Talbot and asked him if he would mind calling at the detective office some time that morning for a talk and to see a ring that had been found in the debris at Piha. “He said, ‘lm doing nothing. I'll come with you now,’ ” witness aded, “and he got into a car with Detective-Sergeant Alpin and myself. On the way to the detective* office he said, ‘The newspapers arc making it pretty hot. It is ridiculous for anybody to think that McKay is not dead/ He added that one paper had suggested that McKay might have lost his memory. He said. ‘That is ill “hooey.” How could a body have got into the bach?’ Talbot identified the ring as McKay’s.” Witness then asked him if he knew' i man named Patrick Henry Shine. ‘He received a great shock and was iumbfounded,” witness said. “After l lapse of over a minute he said, ‘No.’

I said: ’The body of a man named Patrick Henry Shine is missing from a . grave at Waikumete cemetery and we believe the bones found at Piha are tho’se of Patrick Henry Shine. He received a further shock and said, ‘I don't know anything about it. I know the remains in the bach at Piha are those of McKay. It is absurd to think they are not McKay's’.” Witness said he tried to converse on general topics with Talbot, but he would not take any notice. He sat almost as if in a trance. DetectiveSergeant Alpin came into the room with a warrant to arrest Talbot on a charge of improperly interfering with the dead human remains of Shine. When it was read to Talbot he minute he said, “I know nothing about slumped in his chair. After about a it. "Cautioned by Detective-Sergeant Alpin, he said, "I understand. I have nothing to say.” He was then locked up. A Second Arrest Detective-Sprgeant Trethewey also described the arrest of McKay on the evening of March 22. Detective-Ser-geant Alpin and witness went to 29 Grafton Road and waited till 10.5 p.m. when a car bearing McKay and Mr. and Mrs. Jackson, of that address, arrived. Witness told McKay, who was wearing a beard, who they v.x.e | and, shining a torch in his face, satistied himself that the man was McKay. “T said to him, iou are Gordon Robert McKay. We have a warrant for your arrest on a charge of improperly interfering with the dead human remains of Patrick Henry Shine. McKay said, ‘I don’t know what you are talking about. My name is Tom Bowlands. You are making a mistake. My name is not McKay.' I said, ‘You are the man who was supposed to have been burnt to death at Piha on February 12, 1939. He replied, ‘My name is not McKay.’ Up to this time, McKay was quite rational in every way. He walked with us to the detective office and on the way he changed his attitude and pretended to be silly. At the detective office I procured a warrant for McKay’s arrest and read it over to him. He said, ‘I don’t know what you are talking about.’ The warrant was read to him a second time and he was locked up.” Detective-Sergeant Frank Norman Aplin said that on February 16 he went to Piha to sieve the debris of the bach. He described the finding of a considerable quantity of burned bones and other articles. Witness gave details of the course which he and Detective-Sergeant Trethewey followed in their inquiries, much on the lines of the evidence given by De-tective-Sergeant Trethewey. This completed the evidence for the prosecution. “I propose to commit both accused for trial,” said the magistrate. Asking them if they desired to enter any plea, both accused pleaded not guilty and were committed for trial at the next sitting of the Supreme Court /n < Auckland in May. <