Native Lands Frauds Prevention.

Waipawa Mail, Volume XIV, Issue 2712, 23 January 1892, Page 2

Native Lands Frauds Prevention.

Mr Turnbull as Trust Commissioner, held an enquiry last Thursduy respecting leases of two natives’ interests in Te Ohu Block. Mr Loughnan applied for a certificate to a lease to Dr. von Mirbach. Mr Guy, on behalf of Mr Mathews, submitted a lease of the same interests to that gentleman. Nepe te Apato deposed that he was one of the grantees of Te Ohu block, and he had signed the lease produced to Mathews at £2O a year for his share, and had received £4O.

Paora Kopiha stated the same ; he was negotiating before, but the money was insufficient. Did not sign agreement to lease before signing Mathew’s. He and Nepe acted for the other grautees. Wehi Reihana, deposed—(MrLoughnan requested that all witnesses and Mr Grindell should leave the Court.) I signed a lease to Mirbach. and a secoud one after to Guy aud Mathews ; I received £4O from Mirbach ; I signed for my own interest; I signed a second lease because Nepe was angry with me, as he saw me sign Mirbach’a lease. 1 wished to sign for Mathews ; the lease to them was for our own land, and Dr. Mirbach’s was an old lease to a party named Charley Mortensen, who is dead ; Mr Gannon an interpreter, told me it was leased to Charley ; I have no objections to Guy aud Mathews, but I have to Mirbach, because he has not the land and pressed me to sign agaiDSt my will ; he peisisted in asking me to sign a deed, and offered me £4O to do so ; the cheque produced was given me by Mirbach, and I got it cashed ; I remember Nepe speaking to me about this block ; they thought of giving it to Charley ; it was only a rumour ; I signed the deed to Mirbach ; I knew it was for him because he asked me to sign. Mirbach asked him to sign his lease ; Mr Gannon interpreted. Thought it was the old lease to Mortensen. Did not hear the interpretation clearly. Gannon asked him to read his name. It was signed in the large publichouss. Lived at Tikokino, and Nepe and Paul lived at Waipawa, a long way from Tikokino. Had not seen them immediately before signing Mirbach’s lease, but saw them soon afterwards. Saw them within a week before signing. They then said they had agreed to lease to Guy and Mathews. Would not have signed to Mirbach if they had asked him not to do so. They were angry when they found I had signed. I am very sorry that I signed it, and I am willing to pay the money back to Mirbach. I have not yet returned the money. Ido not think it right to lease the Hatne land to two men. Remembered now having executed Mirbach’s lease in Mr Loughnan’s office. Mirbach, Loughnan, and Howard were there. After I had signed the lease, Mr Loughnan said it was the lease to Mortensen. Signed the lease to Mathews at Scrirngeour’s. Something was then said about the previous lease to Mirbach. Grindell said I had been deceived by this man, meaning Mirbach. Nobody said the lease to Mirbach was for ouly £IOO a year. Grindell did not explain how I had been deceived. Grindell gave no reason for asking me to sign again. Received £2O when I signed Mathew’s lease. Cannot tell why they kept back £2O. They said I should receive it after this enquiry. I complain of Mirbach’s lease now, because my partners did not agree to it, and because Nepe and the others have been angry with me since I signed it. Tuta Tamihana deposed—Had signed the lease to Mathews in the presence of Nepe, Paul, Tipene, and other grantees, at Scrimgeour’s. Grindell, Johnson, and Ingliß were also there. Received £B. Did not sign as a trustee, but as a successor to my brother, who is dead. Was to have £8 year for iny interest. I had signed another lease that morning, wrien Mr Speaeer interpreted and read a translation. Spencer said the lease was to Mirbach for £2llo a year for 30 years. Got a cheque for £B, and gave it to Howard, who went out to change it. Nepe spoke through the window after I had signed, and kicked up a row. Nepe said, “ Mirbach is a thief. Griudell says the lease is for £IOO a year.”

Mr Guy objected to this mode of examination by Mr Loughnan. It was simply scandalous. He was putting words into witness’s mouth.

Witness, continuing—On account of Nepe, went out of the room, and went to Grindell, who asked me if I had signed that lease. He also aßked me if I would sign the lease to Mathews. I said I should get into trouble, because I had sigued the other. He said, “ Never mind.” I then signed it. I had not then got Mirbach’s money ; I had got Mathew’s money. When I went out Howard offered me money, and I said I had got Mr Guy’s. Howard gave me money also, and I have it still. I approve now of the doctor’s lease, because it is the first which I signed ; I then thought it was the lease to be signed by all the natives ; I would not hare signed it if I had known that Nepe objected to it ; Mirbach and party got mo into a room at the hotel, but did net lock the door ; when I found I had made a mistake, I refused to receive the money from Howard, but he told me to take it, and he put it in my pocket ; I refused to hold out my hand for it ; he said, “ As you have signed this lease, you will be quite right in taking the money.” wheu I said just now that [ approved of Mirbaeh’a lease, it was because I was afraid I might be punished for signing two leases ; that was my reason for saying I approved of it; I wish to lease the land, to the same people as Nepe and Paul have leased to, and I am now sorry I signed the lease to Mirbach, and lam willing to pay him back the money ; when I signed Mirbach’s lease I did not know Paul and Nepe had signed ; I thought they would sign afterwards. Rupolph von Mirbach deposed— The first signature to my lease was obtained on November 30th, 1891 ; had had previous negotiations with the grantees, Nepe acting as spokesman ; on one occasion sent a message by Mr Bridge to Nepe ; the rent was settled at £2OO a year, but there was a squabble about the length of term ; aftev\ard£ we agreed on a term of 30 years ; Guy’s lease was for 31 years ; Tutu told me, before he signed my lease, that Nepe and Paul had signed Mr Guy’s lease, so that I knew there wus another lease in course of signature by the grantees ; wo were running a race for the most signatures ; had discussed the terms of my lease with the natives about a week before I heard of the lease to Guy; I wanted a lease for 42 years ; the same day that Paul and Nepe signed Guy’s lease, they told me it would bo for 31 years, so that if I wanted the lease I should agree to the same term ; I knew from Nepe that Guy was negotiating for the land ; the rent was then mentioned as £200; they told me Guy’s terms, and I said I would give the same ; a few days before I heard Guy’s lease was signed, I had agreed on the same terms with the natives ; the reason for the lease not being prepared till December 2nd, was that I could not get an interpreter.

Mr Guy : If there was a race for signatures, why did you allow so much time to elapse ? There was no race until you found we had got signatures. Dr Mirbach : I only delayed until I found you were closing. Nepe, recalled : It is not true that I agreed with Mirbach, a few days before I sigued Guy's lease, to give Mirbach a

lease at £2OO a year ; previously to sigjfl ing Guy’s lease, I had negotiated with tfl doctor for a lease ; I asked him his pril and I told him Mr Guy’s ; Mirbach tol me not to sign Guy’s lease ; Mirbagj would not give me an answer, but sain “ Wait, wait”; I said, “ That is not righj tell me your price” ; Mirbach never sJI what price he would give, and we therl fore closed with Guy for £2OO a yeal after signing the lease to Guy, we heal that Mirbach had consented to £2OO 1 paying £4O to one grantee ; he never tol me that he would give £2OO ; I told hil what Guy was giving ; Wehi was übsel when we signed ; when Wehi came, ] told him to sign Guy’s lease at Napil and told him the amount bo should gl £4O for two year’s rent ; I did not al Mirbach taking charge of Wehi the sail day ; the first I heard about it was whj I heard Wehi had got £4O ; the oql other lease I signed was the original leail for £IOO a year ; I said to Wehi that, J all former occasions, we had all actj together, and I had had the management! Wehi said that was quite correct, aod 1.1 had acted stupidly ; I said it brought cl trouble, and the proper lease wus tLS which had been made amongst ourselves! Wehi said, “ Yes, I made a mistake” ; I said, “ If you have made a mistake, eigl our lease also, and let the Coart decij which is the proper one ; but do as yJ like in the matter, but that is my advice’! l pointed out that, in all previous tranj actions, wo had all been united ; that i| all I said to him ; after this Mr Grindel came up and spoke in the same straioj Grindell said Guy’s lease was the on agreed on by all parties ; Wehi the signed the other lease, saying “ this is proper lease, because all the others hav; signed it, and I will sign it”; this signin) has not been done with any intention ti defraud ; the reason why I was so persistent was that I had not been told of tb existence of Mirbach’s lease ; when wi first signed, Tuta wan absent ; I receive; a notice afterwards from Grindell that h| was coming to get the other signature*! crossing the bridge in my buggy, I mei Tuta, and knew he was going to sign tht? lease ; 1 came to Waipukurau and fouodl Grindell had arrived by train ; su«l Grindell and found that Mirbach bad go: hold of Tuta ; spoke to Tuta through thtij window, and told him to come out; I toon him by the hand und dragged him out! Mirbach was very angry ; I was very angry with Mirbach, and told him be wit doing very wroug ; I took Tuta into another room, and asked him if he bad been signing a lease ; he said Mirbach and Spencer had taken him in ; I told hix how wrong it was to do so ; he said he had been pressed to sign, and that vu why he had signed ; I asked him if he had seen our names on that loase, and he said no ; I asked him if he had received the money, and he said no ; some time after I had brought him out, he got the money J 1 Haid, “ Leave the money ; have nothing to do with it ; this is the proper lease of the tribe”; he said, “ that is quite true; I have made a mistake through Mirbach: pressing mo”; Grindell then said, “ It ie { all right, sign this lease ; it is not as if you were doing the thing on the sly ; yom are doing the thing openly” ; I asked him what was the nature of the lease he had signed ; he said he was not quite cleurj but it was for £2OO a year ; I said, “ You must be making a mistake, because Wehi told me the lease he had signed was for £IOO a year”; Tuta then signed Guy’i lease, and I went out and had a row with Mirbach and told him it was the original lease that Tuta had signed for Mirbach; Mirbach said, “It is a lie” ; the lease I refer to is one drafted by Mr Loughnao about two years ago, rental £IOO, lessee Mrs Mortensen ; that was the lease Wehi thought he was signing; after it was drafted, the rent was raised to £170; after Tuta signed, Grindell paid Tuta £8; Tuta left, and some time after returned, having had money given him for signing the other lease ,* I said, “ Why did you take it” ; he said it was pressed upon him on the road, by Mr Howard, who put it in his 'oat pocket ; I told Tuta to look after that money carefully ; the first signatures to Guy’s lease wore on 30th November; it was some time after that Tuta came to

Waipawa; when Mirbach says he agreed to give us £2OO a year for the land before the deed was signed to Mathews, he says what is false ; when Mirbach aud I had the row, I asked him why be had not previously offered £2OO a year ; Mirbach is a man from whom wo borrow money to conduct cases in the Native Land Court; when our cases were coming on, I asked him for money, and he said he could not advance, as he was going back to his own couo'ry.

At this stage the enquiry was adjourned till 7 p.m. On resuming, Mr Gannon was examined as to the interpretation of Mirbach’s lease to Wehi, and other formalities, and testified that Wehi asked why there was no provision respecting minerals, as iu the case of Crown grants, to whioh Mr Lougbnan had replied that such provision was made by statute. Mr Spencer was then examined as to the interpretation of Mirbach’s lease to Tuta. He said Nepe shouted for Mirbach, himself, and others, producing a note for five or ten pounds. Tuta was spirited away.

Mr Grindell being in attendance, Mr Guy enquired whether Mr Loughnan wished to examine him. Mr Guy then enquired whether Mr Grindell desired to teader evidence. Mr Grindell said he

thought it unnecessary, as far as he wan concerned, but was ready to give evidence if called.—Mr Guy said he did not consider it necessary to call him. Mr Loughnun then addressed the Commissioner on behalf of Dr von Mirbach, quoting the case of Bond v. Coleman, reversing the decision in Duncan v. Campbell, and reading one passage in Judge Richmond’s judgment : “In the too frequent cas.-ofa native selling the same land to successive purchasers, the Commissioner ought to give each purchaser s certificate if he finds that the second purchaser has paid his money in ignorance of the former purchase ; thus leaving the two to fight out the battle for priority before some competent tribuneal. . . . On the other hand, should the Commissioner find that the applicant for a certicato, when dealing with the natives, was actu 11 y aware |of the existence of some prior bona fide contract, or disposition, plaioly inconsistent with bis own proposed transaction, a certificate should be refused, the new transaction being contrary to equity and good conscience.” It appeared, then, that, if the parties had acted in good faith, the Commissioner should certify to both deeds, and leave the parties to fight the matter out before some competent tribunal. If there was any breach of good faith between the lessee and a third party, a certificate might be refused. In the prosent case, the grantees were tenants in common, and might alienate separately, iu which case any lessee could apply for a partition of his interest. The fact of the interests being now undivided could not prevent separate alienation, each owner having a separate and individual though undetermined interest. There was evidently a race to obtain signatures, in which Guy, by superior diligence, succeeded in obtaining the most signatures. When Mr Grindell took the signatures, he knew they had already alienated their interests.

Mr Guy said the Legislature originally contemplated that the wishes of the natives should be considered aud given effect to. The Commissioner was appointed to stand betweeu the native aod the pakeha, to prevent frauds anti see that the natives got a fuir quid pro quo. The evidence conclusively proved that the

signatures to Mirbach’s lease had been obtained surreptitiously. The natives now wished to rectify their mistake and refund the money. The principals of the tribe had used all fair means to get Mathew’s lease. Mirbach knew Mathews* lease was signed, yet he waylaid Tata. Mr Guy then dwelt in strong terms on portions of Dr Mirbach’s evidence which were in conflict with that of the natives. Nepe, who was known as a most truthful native, declared Mirbach had never offered £2OO a year. Mirbach had admitted he knew of the existence of Mathews* lease. If Wehi and Tuta had been near Waipawa on November 30tb, these proceedings would never have been taken, and there would have been no bother ; but Wehi was absent at Tikokino, and Tuta was away shearing. Why they signed Mirbach’s lease was because they thought it was some long standing arrangement with Mortensen. Mr Guy then commented od what he termed the cowardly action of the other side in not placing Mr Grindell in tbe witness box after having made such charges against him. Mr Turnbull reserved judgment till Dext Court day, saying he wouid like to examine tbe other signers of Mathews’ lease.