HOTEL HOURS.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 11755, 20 July 1916, Page 3

HOTEL HOURS.

MINISTERIAL CANDOUR LICENSEES HAVE CHARTER FROM PEOPLE. A MATTER OF JUSTICE. [From Our Correspondent.] WELLINGTON, July 19. W T hen the Hon A. L. Herdman came to that part of tho War Regulations Bill to-night dealing with the question of controlling tho liquor traffio be left no doubt that ho was definitely opposed to anything in the shape of-curtailment of hotel hours. " Since tho outbreak of tho war," declared the Minister, "an election has been held. At that general election the question whether licenses should continue or go out of existence was referred to tho people, and tho pcoplo expressed jJieir opinion* on the mattef in very definite fashion. I want it to be understood and remembered that tho election was taken after tho outbreak of war, when soldiers were in camps and when we were commencing to send men away from New Zealand. Very well, that being the caso sinco the outbreak of war and since that declaration by the people, individuals have acquired rights and property and havo invested money m institutions under the belief that they would bo entitled to carry on thenbusiness for a period of three years without molestation, and be allowed to make a living. I say, Mr Speaker, that it would bo a gross act of injustice on the part of this Parliament if they were to curtail the rights of these individuals and tako away their property. If you curtail tho hours during which a licensed holder is able to keep open his licensed premises I say you will deprive him of his property, and the only way, therefore, of doing it with justice is to give him compensation." (Hear, hear.) The Minister •went on to say that in England he believed that when certain steps were taken to curtail the hours of licensed premises compensation had been paid. Mr Isitt: No; they gave them the right to apply for compensation. Mr Herdman: Well, that being so, if you aro going to interfere in, any way with people who have acquired rights, invested money and incurred liabilities, the only way of doing it is to say straight out that they shall be paid compensation, and the only way of saying so is to fix tho rate of compensation to be paid. "I havo carefully considered this matter," continued Mr Herdman, " watched it with care, discussed it with the Superintendent of Police, and como to the conclusion that the best way to control the situation in a city like Wellington in time of war is to have the hotels open until ten o'clock ancl stick to this 13i11. Wo havo found difficulty in dealing with sly grog cases. This will enable us to deal more strictly with these people." The Bill enabled the Government, continued the Minister, to issue regulations empower.lig tho police to enter sly grog.shops without warrant. The police needed power to prevent women going into hotels to get drink. The police informed him that a practice existed of women going to hotels to fetch liquor for soldiers under the , influence of drink. Theso men, instead of going into hotels to drink under respectable conditions, went to sly grog shops. If the power he mentioned was given tho police could cope with the difficulty. Ho would not admit that there had been any groat difficulty in connection with the. soldiers. It had been a matter of surprise and astonishment,, that with 60.000 to 70,000 soldiers from all parts of tho country congregated in the Wellington district there had been so little drunkenness. It was very greatly to tho soldiers' credit. (Hear, hear.) " PRGTECT THE SOLDIER " ARGUMENT. Continuing, the Minister remarked: " People used the argument, ' You must protect tho soldier.' Am I to understand that when a man puts on uniform ho requires the special protection of the Stato? Does this section of the community, which desires to close tho hotels, thus interfering with tho rights of property, go tho length of saying that when a soldier puis on uniform ho is not to bo trusted. There is evidence in my possession of young men who put on tho uniform, faced tho temptations which came their way and comported themselves in a way not only creditable to New Zealand but to the British raco." Mr Herdman informed the House that the Superintendent of Police, since February had been consistently visiting the hotels to observe at first hand the conditions duo to tho creation of a large army. He reported that tho police were able to deal with the position in a satisfactory manner. Tho small proportion of soldiers arrested was evidence of their self-restraint. Contrary to expectation the police officer found a very small proportion of soldiers in hotels when large numbers had lenve. Only on one or two occasions did he see many under the influence of liquor. The picture theatres attracted the majority of the men. When the Eleventh Renforcements' departure was unexpectedly delayed the whole draft got an evening's leave. Only a few returned in liquor and none were deserters. There were seven thousand soldiers m Wellington that nightand no arrests for drunkenness were made. Tho position reported by the Superintendent of Police coulcLbe dealt with by the enlarged power relating to sly grog shops and preventing women getting I'VjH.or in hotels. ANTI-" SHOUTING '' CLAUSE.

"It is proposed in the Bill." continued Mr Ht'idiuan, and I'm not enthusiastic about it —I believe it is a concession to tlio prohibition party—to prohibit "'shouting." If the jiill passes in its present form, I propose in committee to move a new clause giving the poiico power, which they should always have, of calling upon a licensee to appear at any tune before a Licensing Committee to show cause why his license should not be cancelled for misconduct." Mr Hornsbv : Does aiiti-" shouting " apply over the Dominion r lsl "The Minister: Yes. Mr Herdraan added that by taking power to call on licensees to appear before a Licensing Committee at any time it would be possible to properly discipline men who perpetually broke the law. This would protect decent licensees. Mr Isitt: "Why not endorse the license P The Minister: What the honourable gentleman wants is to close the hotel, but I prefer to turn out thfc offender and put a decent man in. STATE CONTROL. Mr "Wilford said that the Bill did not contain any clause proposing to close hotels ao six o'clock, and until they saw tome concrete suggestion it seemed idle to discuss during the second reading a matter which would probably not be introduced till the committee stage <Vas reached. He himself was a State control mail.' He believed whole-heartedly in Suite control, and' he suggested that the Ministry should introduce a clause in the Bill giving power for the State "to acquire compuisorily, on payment of frdr compensation, existing interests in the sale of intoxicating liquor and thereafter to carry on the trade fcr the convenience of the public, and that no individuals should have any interest in the sale or derive any profit from the sale. lie contended that jio man should be allowed to make profit outof aleo-. hoi and be paid by results. Xew Zealand, ho twlic-ved. afforded a splendid

opportunity of securing tho success of such a scheme. As to the hours of hotels, ho did not think any hotel should bo open earlier than nine in tho morning, and he thought twelve hours wcro long enough for a hotel to bo open in ono day. lio would, therefore, Uko to get the hours fixed from nine to nine, or as near - that as possible. As to the plea that legislation was needed for soldiers, our soldiers were uot a drunken lot —(hear, hear) —nor did ho believe tho peoplo of Now Zealand wore a drunken lot, and he believed that the New Zealand " Tommy " would well stand as an examplo of sobriety. (Hear, hear.) In his mind tho only possiblo solution of tho drink question was State control, and ho hoped to seo it effected. Mr Poolo expressed the opinion that tho scheme of Stato control could bo dismissed as being beyond the range of practical politics at tho present time. Justification for the new amendment was, ho contended, national efficiency in sustaining tho unimpaired energy of the British people. Public scrutiny had revealed a number of flaws. Many efforts were being made in Great Britain to endeavour to bring about restrictive results. Tho trouble was the over-capitalisation of the liquor industry. The licensee had to carry the burden. He had to keep tho pace going and sell liquor sufficient to savo himself from loss. Representatives, of the liquor interest before tho committee declared that the loss to licensees through closing bars at six o'clock would be £1,200,C00. The fight rested between vested interest and patriotism. It was an appeal for national efficiency, that tho civil population should pass through discipline during a crisis. Tho proposal was not aimed at the soldier. Mr Hornsby declared that tho question was not the protecting _of the soldier, but how far the nation was prepared to go in 'economic sacrifice. . Dt Thacker asked should our soldiers not be given the same privileges as the men who had made the name of Anzac glorious. There were men who would bo ruined through the anti- " shouting" clause. They certainly ought to receive compensation. Mr Craigie supported eight o'clock hotel closing, without compensation, as it would reduce the consumption of liquor and make for efficiency. Mr Harris declared for six o'clock closing as a war measure, on tho same lines as those takeii by our Allies, Russia and Frauce. He urged that the trading hours of other businesses Hhd been restricted, jyet no question of compensation had been raised as a result. He also argued that no compensation to publicans followed the reduction of hours from eleven to ten o'clock. He contended that compensation from the State was quite out of the question. - The debate was adjourned at 11.55 p.m. on the motion of Mr Isitt.