IN THE HOUSE.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 10923, 12 November 1913, Page 7

IN THE HOUSE.

STRIKE MEDITATION. ;l SIR JOSEPH WARD'S VIEW. PARLIAMENT.' SHOULD INTER- , ',..;. .... . VENE. LIVELY INTERLUDES. [From Our Correspondent.] WELLINGTON, November 11. v ■ The state of high tension prevailing; over the big industrial trouble -was again evident during brief references to the matter in the House of Representatives this afternoon. A tone of hopelessness was adopted by the Prime Minister, who declined to agree with tho leader of the . Opposition that parliamentary intervention would be effective. MR HALLY'S FAILURE.. Sir Joseph Ward asked the Prime Minister what had been the result of the action taken by Mr Hally, Conciliation Commissipner, with the hope of settling'the watersiders' dispute, uased on. the idea that a committee of legislators could be set up to draft a suitable Bill.

The Prime Minister, in reply, said he was sorry to have to say that the proposals submitted by Mr Hally had not been accepted in their entirety by either party. At present, he added, the prospects of a settlement between the two parties were less than they were a week or ten days ago. He went on to point out that the position had also altered from tho fact that in Wellington and Auckland new unions had been formed under the Arbitration Act.

Mr Webb: ' Composed of special policemen. The Speaker called the member for Grey to order. The Prime Minister proceeded to say that in one centre already 400 members had joined the new union, and between 800 and 400 in the other. The interests and safety of those men had to be protected as one of tho essentials of future settlement. ' A- STRONG PREJUDICE.

"I have done my best from the first to bring about a settlement of the difficulty," continued' Mi* Massey, "but rightly or wrongly there is a strong prejudice against tho organisation known as the- Federation of Labour. (Government members,." Hear, hear"). The ship owners, the producers and other employers say that they have been subjected to so many pin pricks and annoyances, and, in some instances, to a form of tyranny, that, they are out to 6top it once and for all. I would like to say that if the Federation of Labour would stand out of the way a settlement would be arrived at in twenty-four hours. I say that after having been connected with these negotiations from the first. I honestly believe an arrangement could be arrived at between the employers, the producers and the watorsidors as units quite easily, but it would bo difficult to effect a 'settlement so long as the organisation known as the Federation of Labour continues. Work seems to be going or! in a fairly satisfactory manner in Wellington and Auckland, and I hope that whatever happens we 6hall see end of the strike within a week from to-day." OBJECTS TO ASIDE. SIR JOSEPH WARD INSISTENT. Sir Joseph Ward said the matter was so urgent that he proposed to speak on tho question, however he might or might not be misrepresented on the matter. " I have,'* said the leader of the Opposition, "suggested special legislation, and 1 object to stand asidt any longer because the Federation of Labour on the one hand and the employers on the other cannot agree to any other method than by a process of exhaustion to settle their differences while the country has to look on and suffer disaster. I am of opinion thai ihe matter should be taken out of thr ■ hands of both parties to tho dispute, and settled by this House on a bad that would be satisfactory to the country as a whole. I am talking not from a party standpoint, but from a national standpoint. I think that both sides of this House should agree to a BUI

to moot the present difficulty; mid that tho standing orders of the Honso should ho suspended to cnabio tho Government to bring clown a Bill and ask members to help put it through in ono sitting." SETTLEMENTPEOPOSAL. "That Bill," wont on Sir Joseph "Ward, " should among other tilings provide for.tho prevention of tho possibility of a similar occurrence to this present unfortnnato position, and it should have reference to every class of industry in this country. The Bill itself should bo at most of three or four clauses, and provide that no strike or lock-out should be made without a secret ballot." Tho Prime Minister: Hear, hear. Wo already propose it. Sir Joseph Ward: You have never brought tho Bill down. Hon W. F. Massey: Jfc is before the House now. Sir Joseph Ward: "Well, I am not going to be deterred by being told there i 3 a Bill before tho House at tho -present moment." (Loud Government laughter.) This secret ballot, he went on. should'be conducted by an outside tribunal, with scrutineers selected by tho union, whether employers or employees. "Ayo"' or "no" should decide tho vote on the proposal, the independent tribunal determining whether the proposal to strike or lockout should bo given effect to or not. Special penalties should be imposed on every executive, whether of employers or employees that was a party to any breach on the part of the members of the union or association. If astriko or lock-out were carried by ballot no penalties would, of course, be imposed. The ballot should take placo prior to the possibility of the whole country being thrown into the throes of an industrial conflict.- Before coming to a position where a fight to the stage of exhaustion was entered upon the whole country should bo properly warned. THE PRESENT DIFFICULTY. Sir Joseph Ward said that to,meet the present difficulty a ballot should be taken at once amongst tho members of the Wellington Waterside Workers' Union. The Prime Minister: It is not in the'hands of the Waterside Workers' Union. Sir Joseph Ward: It should be put in the hands of the Waterside Union to enable it to conduct the ballot. Sir Joseph added that a tribunal should be set up forthwith to consider proposals from both sides. After discussion it should prepare and submit an agreement which it considered equitable to both sides. If this was not acceptable to both sides, but was approved as reasonable, then it should be referred to the Chief Justice and two Judges of the Supreme Court, who should be the final arbiters. They, make a binding agreement by Order-in-Council. AN IMPASSE. , What, Sir Joseph asked, was the Position at the moment? An impasse. The employers said they would have nothing but the Arbitration Act. The employees would not have it. Members: The Federation of Labour. Sir Joseph Ward: There is an impasse, and it is a Parliament's 'duty to remove it. The strike has reached its twentieth day, and it means the ruination of thousands in this country. Surely we cannot allow this to go on—the ruination of farmers, traders and workers entirely outside those directly .engaged in the combat. Parliament, he continued, was the | strongest body in the country, and ought not to tolerate the position for twenty-four hours. REGISTERED AGREEMENTS. Sir Joseph Ward said that there was another point.he would briefly refer to. He remembered the strong feeling of certain Unions about the Trade Union Act, and it was a moot question whether all agreements made with trade Unions should be registered in some way. Personally, ho believed the strike ought to have never taken place. The principle was not good enough to stand with, but lie could not idly stand by and say the process of exhaustion was to bo followed. Tho I aftermath would mean hate, bitterness I and revenge. While no section of the community should allow any section to I override the law, Parliament could not allow the process of exhaustion to go on. If the House applied itself immediately to the purpose of preparing legislation on firm and decided lmes it would be the. finest day's work Parliament ha"d ever done. Parliament should adjourn until the _ evening, while proposals were being framed. It was an urgent matter. Business people in Wellington had written to him that day stating that owing to the dispute they were on the verge of rain.

PESSIMISTIC.

PRIME MINISTER'S ANSWER,

'■ The lion gentleman has more faith in legislation than any other member in the House/' replied the' Prime Minister. Legislation, he continued, was all right in preventing these difficulties, but he failed to see how it could settle the present one. He was not going to criticise the speech of the leader of the Opposition, but he was bound to say it would have been much better in the country's interest if; it had never bßen made. (Opposition dissent). Mr Isitt: I'm sick of that party game. The Prime Minister: I am not playing a party game. Mr Isitt: \ou are. The Prime Minister: The statements of the members for Invercargill and Christchurch North are worthy of them. "YOU MISERABLE DODGER." Mr Payne: " You miserable dodger!" The Prima Minister: Mr Speaker, did you hear that? Mr Payne was called to withdraw, which he did. Then the Speaker added: And express regret. Mr Payne: Yes, and express regret. The Prime Minister: I forgive the hon gentleman. Mr Payne: You need not worry. The Prime Minister added that the proposals of the leader of the Opposition were the substance of tlrse which had been submitted from another source, and which would be seen in print before many hours passed. Sir Joseph Ward denied that either the employers or the watersiders had communicated with him. He called the members of hia party together at two o'clock to submit the proposals to them. THE FOREIGN ELEMENT, "I think there is no legislation in this world that will make men won* if they won't work, or will compel employers to employ men if they don't want to employ them," said the Prime Minister. "This dispute," he added, "is not between the waterside workers and their employers, but between a ! Federation, the leaders of which are foreigners. Government members: Hear, hear. Mr Webb: "What about yourself? Mr Massey: I am a New Zealander in every sense of the word. Mr Webb: Then God help New Zealand. (Cries of "Order," and " Behave, yourself.")_ The Prime Minister: If we had all New Zealanders on both sides of the House we should have had it settled clays ago. The sooner these shake the dust of New Zealand off their feet the better for New Zealand. (Ministerialists: " Hear, hear.") We placed legislation on the Statute Book many years :igo to prevent and _ settle industrial difficulties, and I believe that legislation is quite sufficient for that purpose, but you have to get the people to agree Erst and if the present legislation is not 'sufficient I would refer tho hon gentleman to the provisions of the legislation now before Parliament. I oops to see this measure placed on the Statute Book before the present session ends. GOOD INDICATIONS.

Mr Russell: What we want 13 legislation to deal with the present position. The Prime Minister: No legislation

will settle the present position. (Ministerialists: "Hear,-.hear.")' As soon as the parties on each side will agree to legislation then -it will be offered. Mr Ell: You have to settle tho thing before that.

The Prime Minister: Well I want to see wiser counsels prevail. Meanwhile, twelve vessels are being worked at Auckland. Four hundred men are working there. Mr Payne: Farmers. Temporary hands. '

Mr Massey: I know nothing about that, but the fact that work is resuming is a good indication of a peaceful settlement of the difficulty. Mr Webb: A peaceful settlement by force.

WAS THE BILL TO GO THROUGH. The Prime Minister proceeded to quote the strike prevention clause of the Labour Bill now before a cominit- ■ Sir Joseph Ward: Will the honourable gentleman allow me? I was assured by the chairman of tho Labour Bills Committee that the Prime Minister had informed him that it was not intended to go on with that Bill this year. The Prime Minister: Well, that statement is not correct. lam going to ask Parliament to agreo to it. Mr Bradney, chairman of the Labour Bills Committee, gave the. statement asqribed to him a positive denial. "The Prime Minister, he declared, " has never - made any statement to me to that effect. With regard, to the Arbitration -Bill, it is tho next question before The Labour Bills Committee and I gave the clerk instructions to get his evidence ready for nest Friday. I have not said anything to the- contrary, and "I have Lever heard anything to the contrary." - Mr Atmore, who is a member of the committee, rose and amid a fire of confusing interjections declared that he had heard it stated that the Bill would be abandoned. • • WHAT MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED. The Prime Minister, went' on quoting from the clause relating to the prevention of strikes,, remarking afterwards: "I do not think there could be any better provision with '.he object of preventing such a crisis as w© are now unfortunately involved in, and I hope, with the honourable gentleman's assistance, to put it on the Statute Book this year."

Mr Ell: But what are you going to do about the present difficulty!' The Prime Minister: I believe if this discussion had not taken place this afternoon that in. all probability the difficulty would have been settled' before the "end of the present week. (Confused cries of " No, no," and " Hear, hear.") I give the honourable gentleman credit for good intentions but 1 think if this strike is prolonged the speech made by the leader of the Opposition this afternoon will be partly responsible for it. (Indignant Opposition protests.) THE POINT OF DISAGREEMENT Sir Joseph Ward: I disagree with the Prime Minister respecting one statement he has made. I believe that legislation is absolutely essential. That is the difference between the honourable gentleman and myself. I am not in favour of these parties taking the law into their own hands. I believe in a reasonable course, being adopted to end this disastrous state of things. _ Sir Joseph, discussing the Prime Minister's remarks about his attitude and speech, said that hundreds of telegrams had reached him from all parts of the country appealing to him to do something. Ruination was staring a large number of business people in the face. Mr Young: What about the farmers? ' • Sir Joseph Ward: There are all olasses of the country to be considered in a crisis .like this. We must consider the country as a whole. I happen to be leader of the Opposition and the duty devolves upon me of having to bring forward representations made to me. What occurred in 1890 when the big strike was on ? We discussed the whole thing on the floor of the nouso, with tho view of bringing about a settlement of the difficulty. Yet we have here stood quietly for nearly three weeks in the hope of a settlement. I am not going to stand by and receive hundreds of communications that cannot bo answered without voicing the strong feelings I have that we ought, by legislation, bring into existence an independent tribunal to settle this impasse. That is where I differ from the honourable gentleman. AN UNHEEDED APPEAL. Mr Webb, member for Grey, then attempted to speak on the subject, but his remarks could not be heard through the din of "Order, order" and "Sit down!" that immediately arose. "Is the gag to" be applied?" Mr Webb demanded in aouieter interval, upon which he was informed by the Speaker that tho leader of the Opposition had been allowed a certain license owing to his position, but that no such concession could be extended to Mr V> 7 ebb. , , . ' Mr Webb thereupon complained in. a loud voice that there were more than two parlies 'in the House, but his appeal reached deaf ears and when ho requested the indulgence of the House to address a few remarks to it a chorus of " No" 'went up from the Reform supporters. "Well,. Mr Speaker," exclaimed the member for Grey heatedly ''they ought to be ashamed of themselves—a 'ot of satellites," an observation which was greeted with another roar of " Order, order!" from the Government benches. A'IISUNDERSTANDIiYGS.

Mr Atmoro then took the opportunity on a question of misrepresentation to declare again definitely, as a member of the Labour Bills Committee, that the statement bad been made to the effect that the Arbitration Bill would be dropped this session. The .Speaker closed, any further re-

marks by saying that the word of the chairman of the committee would have to be accepted. "It seems to me that it is just a question of misunderstanding between members," he observed. ■ Mr Veitch nest asked the Prime Minister if he would give the House an opportunity of discussing the industrial position. Mr Massey recommended him to put a question on the Order Paper in the usual way. , Mr Webb: Ah! more cowardice. . The Speaker: .If the honourable member persists in interjecting stronger measures will have to be taken. The calling for the presentation of papers concluded the discussion.