EVENING SITTING.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 5349, 29 August 1895, Page 4

EVENING SITTING.

The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. The Hon R. J. Seddon regretted to say that the printing office had been unable to give the full report of the committee to members by this time. He thought that members ehould be put in possession of the report before being called on to discuss it. He therefore moved that the House should adjourn till 8 p.m. The Hon, E. Mitchelson said that, seeing the importance of the matter, the Government should adjourn the question till 2.80 next day. If the Premier consented to this course, he (Mr Mitchelson) felt sure that the progress of tbe Bill would not be delayed. The Hon R. J. Seddon said that he wanted to have the report and appendices in the handa of members before they were asked to consider it, and he moved that an adjournment till 8.30 should be taken. Mr Duthie said tbat it was impossible I to deal with auch an important matter in an hour or two. The Hon R. J. Seddon said that when the House resumed at 8.30 the Government would be in a position to tell the House what it would do. Mr Thompson supported Mr Mitchelson's proposal to adjourn the debate till next day. They would then be in a position to discuss the whole matter, and he had no doubt it could be disposed of by to-morrow night. Dr Newman asked why the Premier had not circulated the Bill, ao that members would be in a position to consider it. The Hon R. J. Seddon said that he was always willing to oblige honorable gentlemen. He then introduced the Bank of New Zealand and Banking Bill by message from the Governor. Mr Cbowtheb said that the Premier was not treating the House fairly, as they were distinctly promised that they would have time to conaider the report and papers attached thereto. The Hon J. G. Wabd said that the Government knew perfectly well that members could not grasp the contents of the report at once, and said that it was essential that the Bill ahould be in the hands of members also before they were called on to discuss the matter. He hoped that the House would accede to the request to adjourn till 8.30, when the whole of the informa.tion necessary would be in the hands of the House. It waß not the deaire of the Government to force this matter at all. They wanted every member to take his full share of responsibility in the matter, and he hoped that the House would consent to this reasonable adjournment. Mr T. Mackenzie was pleaßed to hear the Treasurer adopt suoh a reasonable course, and he warned the Government that the House would not consent to put the Bill through in one sitting, as it waa . perfectly impossible for members to discuss this matter so hurriedly. He moved as an amendment that the discussion of the committee's report ahould be postponed till 2.30 next day. The motion for an adjournment till 8.30 was carried on the voices. The Houae resumed at 8.30 p.m. The Hon R. J. Seddon aaid that ' the Government thought that the best way of proceeding at present was that the Colonial Treasurer should move the seoond reading of the Bill and then adjourn the debate on the seoond reading co as to give members full time ta conaider ifc. Se hoped that the Honse would unanimously agree tb this course being adopted. The Government would not ask the House on that occasion to affirm the principle of the Bill, but it was doing ita duty in moving the second reading of the Bill that night, so that members ; might next day bein a position to go into the whole matter fully. The Government intended to-morrow to issue an Order-in-Council to make the notes of the Bank of New Zealand legal tenders. That would ab any rate ensure the position of the bank until the House had decided whether it would come to the rescue of the Bank or not, and it was not advisable that the matter should be hurried. The Honee would, therefore, see that the Government did not want to force this matter through the House hurriedly, and he wished to say that this Government was in no.way reoponeible for the present position of the Bank. . The Hon E. Mitchelson said that it ,was to be regretted that the Premier did not adopt his suggestion to adjourn the debate till to-morrow, and he was glad to hear that an Order-in-Council was to be issued making the notes of the Bank of New Zealand legal tender. He still hoped, however, that the second reading of the Bill would not be moved that night, as ib would be more convenient to postpone the : matter till next day, and he held that it wonld be more to the interests of the bank and of the Government. The Hon R. J. Seddon said that he did not fear what members might cay on thia matter in the face of the committee's report. The Hon J. G. Wabd moved that the House shonld go into Committee of Waya and Means- to consider the Governor's message. Mr G. Hutchison hoped that the Treasurer would not move the -second reading of the Bill that night. If he did so, he should feel obliged to offer a few remarks on the Bill, but if the Treasurer did not move it he would reserve those remarks. Captain Russell hoped that the Premier would agree to Mr Hutchison's suggestion, and he, speaking quite apart from party feelings, thought it would be wise to adjourn to-night, so that the Honse might be in a position next day to ■ discuss the position impartially, especially as the Premier intended to take pains to protect the position of tbe bank. He thought that it waa in the true interests of the -oolony and the bank that they should discusa this position impartially. The Hon R. J. Seddon asked Captain Russell to exercise his influence in asking hiß side of the Houße, in the interests of the colony, to forbear tbat evening. He held that it was unfair to the committee and to the bank and to the people of New Zealand to adjourn that night without any explanation of the Bill now before the House. He felt sure that an explanation from the Treasurer, who was acquainted with the whole position, would be welcomed by both aideß of the House, and that was the only reason why he refused to agree, to such a reasonable request. The Government endeavoured to meet every reasonable request, but tbe exceptional position they had to face at present had to be met in the manner proposed by the Government. ... Mr BfiLL said that the speech to be delivered by the Treasurer that night wOuldi!carry the greatest weight .and influence with niembers, as he was the most skilful advocate in the House. He agreed with Mr Mitchelson, but could not agree with the Premier's view that niembers who tpoke after the Colonial Treasurer would be doing an injury to the institu-

tion. The only question that would influence him in voting upon the matter was its effect on the colony of New . Zealand. j Dr Newman aaid that the Premier spoke a great deal about approaching this matter in a non-party Bpirit, but he felt . certain that Mr Ward would speak in a j purely partisan spirit, aa they never got i anything else from the Treasury benches but party speeches. The Hon J. G. Wabd regretted that there was anything approaching party in thia matter, aa the Government had endeavoured to avoid thiß. He held that it was not fair to have a request made at the last minute to postpone the second reading of the Bill, and it was not his intention to make a party speech at all on the Bill. It was only right, he thought, for him to endeavour to make as clear a statement of the Bill as possible for the information of members. Mr G. W. Russell thought that the Government should take Borne steps to ascertain whether the report of the committee waß to be given effect to or not, and it was a matter for regret that members on the Opposition side of the House taking up their present position. He held that the Colonial Treasurer was perfeotly right in asking the House to agree to the course he proposed. Mr Allen Baid that if Mr Ward moved the second reading of the Bill to-night the House would not understand it nearly so well as if time had been afforded to consider the Bill. He held that if the Government adopted its present course it was likely to do the institution much more harm than if the debate were adjourned. The Hon R. J. Skddon said that if it went forth to the conntry that the Honae refused to hear the Treasurer move the second reading of the Bill, it would do the bank more harm than any speeches members might make on it, and that was the reason why the Treasurer wished to explain the Bill. Mr Buchanan said that if the Government persisted in the course it proposed, it would run the risk of having things said in debate that would not be said if members had full opportunity of perusing the Bill for themselves, aa they could not possibly understand the position after hearing merely a speech from the Treasurer. As the Premier would not adjourn the debate, Mr Duthie trusted that the House would now allow the Treasurer to make his speech, and then after a speech or two from the other side of the House they might adjourn till next day so as to conaider the whole matter for themselves. i Mr G. Hutchison had no desire to make a second reading speech that night, but he I held that Mr Ward should not be allowed to make a speech unanswered. He thought that the Premier should consent to the adjournment of the debate. There were a good many things the Houbo would want to know before the second reading of the Bill were agreed to, such aa the attachment of Bchednleß, &c, and he held that the speech of the Premier was more likely to do harm to the bank than anything elae. i The Hon J. G. Wabd deprecated Mr Hutchison's statement, and said that the assets of the bank, in excess of liabilities, in this colony alone, were £2,450,000, and he held that these ! pointed out clearly that the institution was solvent. He complained that mem-, j bers often gave expression to feelings of distrust without having full knowledge. He asserted again that the bank was in a position to make a proper declaration that its assets exceeded its liabilities, and that being the caee, he accepted his full share J of the responsibility of the course proposed by the Government. He appealed to Mr Hutchison to refrain from making Bpeechea of the kind, although of course he had a perfect right to do so. After further discussion, Dr Newman asked whether the House was to be asked for further liabilities in conneotion * with the bank in excess of those now proposed. The Hon J. G. Wabd said that, instead of putting questions of that kind to the Government, Dr Newman ahould come down and propose that the bank should close its doors. Dr Newman knew as well as he (Mr Ward) did that nothing would be done without the consent of the House, and all the Government wanted to do was to protect the colony. It was Bimply impossible for him to reply to all sorts of questions of thiß nature. Mr Duthie eaid that it was not fair to retort on Dr Newman in that way, seeing that a new departure was now taken up by the Government in proposing to guarantee £500,000 of bank notes to-morrow. The Hon R. J. Seddon said that the Government was only taking a necessary precaution. In proposing to make Bank j of New Zealand notes legal tender it was simply carrying out the law, which allowed it to make note issues of a bank legal on the bank making the necessary declaration that ita assets exceeded its liabilities, which thiß bank was able to do. He asserted that, according to the banking returns in the Gazette, this institution was in a better position to make this declaration than any other in New Zealand. Mr Bell Baid that the Government proposed to do a wrong. to the people of the colony by guaranteeing the notes of this bank, and he hoped that it would never be said that he assented to auch a course. There was not the slightest necessity for this unless the bank were driving the Government at the point of the bayonet. Mr Duthie could not believe that there was any necessity for this bank note issue guarantee to-morxow, and the House should object atrongly to it. The Hon J. G. Wabd said that the faot of any institution having a large amount of money was not all that was required to maintain its credit. The institution had more money that it could use. He said, with a full sense of responsibility that in taking the action it had last session the Government had, he believed, prevented a serious disaster from overtaking the colony. If a great orisis happened to this institution it would almost; certainly affect other large institutions, and it was their duty to , prevent any such crisis arising in the colony. •' I The Hon E. Mitchelson at 11.20 ap- j I pealed to the Honse to allow the Treasurer to move the second reading of the Bill, as it would shortly be twelve o'clock, and he would then be unable to do so. Ha understood that the Government was prepared to adjourn after Mr Ward made his speech till 2.30 next day. Mr Eabnshaw moved that the Chairman should leave the chair as a protest against the Government guaranteeing the notes of the Bank of New Zealand. Mr G. Hutchison said that id resisting this speculative proposal to guarantee the notes of the Bank of New Zealand he was actuated solely by a desire for the good of the colony, and not out of any animus to the bank itself. He declared that Mr Seddon'a -Taction in guaranteeing those notes to the extent of nearly half a million of money would do the bank more barm than any speeches in the House could do. The Hon J. G. Wabd said that the bank could, at the preseat moment, meet the whole of its engagements outside the colony in Australasia and in England. He stated that, on August 19, 1895, the assets Of the bank amounted to £6,865,879, whilst its liabilities were £5.214,006, and that at the present time the excess of assets oyer liabilities was £593,300. He strongly defended the action of tho Government in making the notes of the bank legal tender, and said that it was in a position to declare absolutely that its assets exceeded its liabilities. The statements of those members who aaid that the bank was not in a solvent condition were absolutely incorrect. „,__, «. Mr G. Hutchison said that tbe report brought down by the Government Btated thatthe bank was,*on the whole, £376,900 ; to the bad. Notwithstanding that the Treasurer told them that its assets, exceeded its liabilities. He did nob fcn<m how this deficiency arose. It probably might be owing to the globo assets, but that was the information to be found in the teporti and yet the Government

was going to guarantee the bank notes to-morrow. Mr Hone Heke protested against the eonrae proposed. The Hon J. G. Wabd referred again to the position of assets over liabilities. He said that Mr Hutohiaon, by hia remarks, doubted a declaration made by responsible and trustworthy men, and he again asserted that the bank was in a position to make that declaration. He complained that by the action of a few members he had been prevented from moving the seoond reading of the Bill, and giving a thorough explanation of the proposals made by the committee. They had deliberately prevented him from making that explanation which he considered it necessary to make in the interests of the colony. Sir R. Stout said that Mr Ward was quite right in saying that there were in the bank more assets than liabilities. What were called liabilities were not liabilities to the creditors of the bank, and there were ample assets over liabilities. There could be no question, therefore, as to the right of the Government to issue a proclamation legalising the bank notes. Mr Allen asked whether the Bank of New Zealand shareholders had anything to do with? the Bill brought down by the Government. If not, those shareholders might be having a serious wrong done to them. The Hon R. J. Seddon hoped that the House would now proceed to business, and expressed regret that the Colonial Treasurer was not allowed to move the eecond reading of the Bill. He thought, judging | by what had just taken place, that Very little consideration had been shown to the j shareholders of the Bank of New Zealand, or to the agricnltural, industrial and commercial interest i of the oolony. After a lengthy discussion, Mr Eabnshaw moved that the Chairman leave the chair. I Lost by 36 to 11. I The resolution to read the Bill a firat > time Waß carried on the voices. The Hon J. G. Wabd said that they | were passing through a very serious crisis in this country at present, and members had rightly asked for more time to consider the proposals well for dealing with thia question. The report of the committee was an exhaustive one, and would be found to contain a solution "of the difficult proj blem before them. He asked the House to consider the proposals oarefully and maturely, and without reference to any particular interests but those of the colony. He referred to the question of legalising the bank notes, proposed by the Government, and said that there waa no necessity to do this in coneequence of the financial position of the institution, but it waa necessary to establish every precaution in connection with a great question of this kind, and the Government was wise in providing againßt the possibility of any panic occurring whilst the proposals were being considered by the House. The trouble in connection with the Bank of New Zealand was not a financial one. The real trouble was the attachment to the Bank* of New Zealand Estates Company, which owed an indebtedness to the bank of three millions. Some of the estates attached to the bank never paid ordinary interest, and the values put on them did not exist in reality. He said that if the Government had not considered thiß matter, the fact of the Bank of New Zealand snowing an aggregate of losses on Friday next would have affected not only that institution, but ether financial institutions, and the Government was fully justified in setting up a Seleot Committee of both Houses to make inquiry into the whole circumstances of the bank. After referring to the combined losses of the bank and Estates Company, aa shown in the report of the committee, he detailed the proposals of the report itself for meeting the deficit. It was an essential part of the scheme that they should enable the bank to carry on a genuine banking business, and to give it the whole of the colony's business in England, whioh wonld amount to £14,000 a year. They proposed, also, to increase the earning power of the bank and to give it power to pnrchase the busineßß of another institution, which was also a wise proposition. Referring to the extra million reserved in a liquid state, he said that was done to enable the institution to maintain its oredit, and if the bank were severed from the Estates Company there would be no occasion to reserve this ! extra million. After detailing various j other portions of the report, he eaid tbat after careful consideration of the I whole question, he was convinced that if the Bank of New Zealand were allowed to close its doors the trouble would not end there, and the revenue of the colony i would fall by about a million a year. | He held that the Government was doing ita duty in placing before the House a I scheme which it thought would solve this great difficulty. The motion for the eecond reading of the Bill was fixed for that afternoon at 1.30. The House rose at 1.50 a.m. The Weather.-- Our Rangiora correspondent writes :— Heavy rain was falling in the hilla yesterday afternoon, and there was a large volume of water in the Ashley River. O. W. O. Hardman, Sheriff of Tyler Co., W. Va., appreciates a good thing and does not hesitate to say so. He was almost prostrated with a cold when he procured a bottle of Chamberlain's Cough Remedy. He says : — " It gave me prompt relief. I find it to be an invaluable remedy for coughs aud colds." For Bale by Wallace and Co., Chemists, Christchurch. /