Untitled

Star (Christchurch), Issue 3589, 11 October 1879, Page 3

HOUSB OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Fbieax, Oct. 10.

[Pes Pbess Association. J

The House assembled at 2 30 p.m. NOTICES OF HOTION. ' Mr M'Lean gave notice thafc ho would ' move, at next sitting day : "That fche Island ' of Kawau be included into a County for the purpose of making ifc liablo to taxation." WANT OP CONFIDENCE MOTION. • Mr Macandbbw gave notice thafc he would move — "Thafc Government does not possess the confidence of the Houso." With the view of enabling him to make a certain explanation, he moved the adjournment of the House. He had one or two words to say in connection with the announcement he had jußfc now made. Ho took it for granted thafc fche usual constitutional course would be adopted on this discussion, and that Government would refrain from going on with publie busineßa until the motion was disposed of. He wished to say that fche Opposition was most desirous of getting on with tho business of the country, and that they desired to bring this question to a final issue at as early a date as possible. If Government were so disposed, thoy were prepared to go fco a decision on fche question at once, and they would bo prepared to abide loyally by the result. For his own part, he was in a position to say that if the question were disposed of today, and the voto given in the affirmative, he would be prepared on Tuesday to bring down the names of a new Government that would command fche confidence of the House, and so get on with the business — the passing of those constitutional measures fchafc were so urgently demanded. Ho did nofc of course expect the Government to go on with the debate to-day, but he would ask the Premier to give him an assurance that ifc would be gone on with as the first order of the day next week. QUESTIONS. Beplying to Mr Finn, tho Government stated that they wore desirous of giving all the facilities they could for throwing open land for settlement, and thafc fchey had under consideration fche question of throwing open all available agricultural land, afc the head of Lake Wakatipu, and that an explicit answer would be given fchafc day week. Beplying to Mr Tainui, it was stated that the report of Commissioner Young on Native reserves on the West Coast, together with all correspondence and minutes would be produced. In reply to Mr Andrews, The Hon E. Olives said fche question of causing all railway passengers' tickets to have the value of the same printed thereon, had been referred to the Bailway Commissioners, bufc as yet no answer had been obtained ; and i that uniforms for Bailway officials wero provided for jn many places, and ifc waa under

-consideration to adopt the same in the North Island. In reply to Mr S«rst, ! The Hon B. OtiVBB Baid the Rivertflfr* Invercargill railway was in course of being re-laid with 401b Vails. Replying : to Mr Johnston, Major ATJSrJTfiON said the land taxiin<each County c:uld be paid by Poat Office orders, and that "such orders would be issued free of charge. THB WINT OF CONFIDBNCE JlO©K>N. The Hen. John Hall said r tbafc in nofc getting Ms Government sworn in, so as to be ready to take their Beats on Wednesday, he had been blamed for attempting to delay tho business, and prevent the want' Of confidence motion coming on. Such was nob his intention. He had been told by Sir G. Grey that it was absolutely necessary that Rn Imprest SupplyCßill shouldbe passed afc once. They had no representative in the Upper House, Mr Whitaker not having arrived in Wellington, and 'he was therefore anxious thafc the Bill should pass through the Upper House before tlie late Government left the benches, as] otherwise he knew it would not be allowed to j .go "through until Mr Whitater took his seat, and thereby a whole week would have beet lost. Regarding fche course proposed to bo i taben, he said he could not yet gi*-e a full j -statement in consequence of Mr Whitaker' s : inon-arrival in Wellington. Furthermore, I the Treasurer had not yet succeeded in ' investigating the state of the finances, although ho had been industriously engaged ! in the work since Tuesday. However, he •expected to be ablo to lay before them the ; result of the Treasurer's labours. At all ■events no time would be lost, and fche actual ; financial position of the Oolony would be kid before them at the earliest moment. The Native Minister had also keen busily engaged with the affairs of his department, but in ■consequence of the peculiar manner in which 'they had been conducted hy the late Government, ifc was not by any means easy to obtain full and orrect information. The Native Minister was therefore not yefc in a, position to make any definite statement. On Tuesday, however, they expected to be able to state whnfc fchey believed to be the position of affairs on the West Coast, and the steps which they thought should be adopted in the circumstances ; also, as to the manner in which tho alienation of theNative landsquestiooeughtto be -dealt wifch. The question of purchase of land from the Natives was also being carefully considered, and the views of Government on the Bubject would then be given. In the matter of political reform their sincerity had been questioned by the other sido. They proposed to afc once dispel all doubts on the point, and proceed with the Electoral Bill, and he hoped thafc members on the other side would nofc obstructithe passing thereef. He did not agree wifch fche Government measure of last Bession, but proposed rather to frame it on the basis of the measure introduced by Mr Whitaker last session. Ho hoped to be able to submit Maori qualifications, fchafc would be more fair and moro reasonable than those contained in tho hto Government measures. The next Bill to which he would refer, was the Triennial Parliaments Bill, which was down on the Order Paper for second reading to-day. They believed fchat Bill to bo required by the country. The measure, as prepared by tho late Government, proposed that it should not come into operation until after tha dissolution of the existing Parliament. The third matter alluded to was tho Redistribution of Seats. They agreed that a measure of tho kind was necessary ; still it was a work of difficulty, and it would base to be carefully considered. What they wanted was that all parts ofthe Colony should be tfairly represented, and no portion of ifc disfranchised. Land legislation was nexfc referred to, and in (framing a measure on that subject Government would be guided by the principle thafc ifc was absolutely essential for all classes thafc the lands should be settled upon, and facilities for that purpose would bo provided. All the questions they would bring down would be nst only liberal, but likewise well considered, flis colleague, Mr Whitaker, would arrive to-morrow, when they would devote themselves to the work with energy, so that business mighfc be carried on with as little delay as practicable. Mr Hall in moving the second reading of tho Triennial Parliaments Bill, said fchafc sinco tho previous Bill had been passed a considerable change had taken place in tbe position of affairs. His own opinion had been fchat a four years' duration ought in the first place to have been attempted. Tho difference, however, was nofc a very large quostion, hence he was the more ready to give way. Mr SIiEKHAN said that tho silence of Government on the notice of Want of Confidence was extraordinary. He challenged them to go on and take a vote on the proposed motion afc onco. If fchey would take a fair and short fight they would be prepared to abide the issuo and go on with the business at once. He had heard that an attempt ] was to bo made to burke fche question, and thafc they would not be allowed even to bring it on on Tuesday. If they succeeded in that he would find other ways to test the strength of the Government party. He moved the adjournment; of fcho debate on the second reading of tho Bill till Tuesday. Mr Whitaker said that they heard both insido and outside the House that they did not intend to carry oufc the Liberal measures. Now thnfc they wore ready to do so they joined the very party responsible for these reports, attempting to obstruct them in tkeir endeavour to go on with tho very first of these measures. He contended that thafc fact alone went to provo that the Opposition was not honest in its profession about getting these measures passed. Then, again, the Premier had told them that the electoral and other measures demanded by the country would b3 brought down with tho least possible delay. The motion as pufc by Mr Sheehan was in tho worst possible taste, and Bhowed palpably tho confidence thafc was to bo placed in their_ professions about getting on with tiio business, and carrying out the Liberal measures sought for by the country. He called upon all inde-, pendent members to take their stand againsfc such a proposal, and nogative the motion for an adjournment. Mr Tubnbum. argued that tho real question at issuo was not the passing of the Triennial Parliament's Bill or any other Bill ; it was simply as fc? whether or not tho business should proceed until the notice of motion given by Mr Macandrew had been disposed of. Mr M'Lean said tho Government would stay on their benches until they had told tho Houso about tho finances of tho country, or ho would have nothing more to do with them. Tho state of these finances was most deplorable, and ifc would take the very best men in that Houso to elucidate their present condition. Ifc was kind of the Opposition to offor to go to a division to-day, seeing that four of tho Government supporters were away. The motion for delay was a mere subterfuge on the part of tho Opposition to shelve the Bill altogether. The truth was they did not want it, and thoy would nofc vote againsfc ifc. That was apparent from the fact fchafc the Bill as framed was nofc mado to apply to tho new Parliament, but to tho noxt one. Lot them, if they wero honest, pass a Bill to affect themselves, and nofc make a sham of Jiassing a Bill which would only affect future egislations. Mr Swanson urged tbo importance of going on with the Bill, and leaving tho wholo question betweon the two parties on the want of confidence motion to be settled afterwards. Mr Bowen eaid it had been over and ovor again stated that Ministers had a righfc to havo fair warning bofore a vote of want of confidence was takon. The proposal was a most unconstitutional one, and one ho hoped the Houae would not commit itself to. Mr Reader Wood contended thafc the lato Government had nofc had a fair trial. Immei diately the Governor's speech was brought , down they wero attacked and displaced. He i blamed the Governor for nofc having attempted a reconstruction of the lato Government, instead of placing himself on the ; benches with colleagues even moro objectionI ablo than any of tho mombera of the GovernL ment they displaced. No reason had been . shown why tho projected wanfc of confidenco ! motion Bhould nob be gone on wifch at onco. E Major Atkinson said it was curious that • tho wanfc of confidence motion and the motion for tho adjournment had been moved by t members who had persistontly voted against 3 the Bill on a previous occasion. It was a 1 fact fchafc after fcwo years of office nofc a single - Liberal measure of which they had talked so much was iu a fit state to bo presented to the House. He would also be able to show thafc f the finance of fche country was in even a worse 3 condition. If this Government wero turned 1 out and another put in it would bo a Ministry , put in by the will of tho late Premier, despite 1 all they had heard of thafc hon gentleman's - unfitness to be leader of his party. He would i* ask new members fco give the Government an

■opportunity of placing their measures before the Houee, and judge for themselves how far that confidence could be extended. He could ; tell the Houae they were determined to go on with the whole question of -finance, despite the anxiety shown to prevent them doing ao. Mr Maoandbbw denied that he had opposed the Triennial Parliaments Bill in the paat. He disclaimpd all intention of attempting to defeat tho passing of the Bill. It was in reality their Bill, and they were determined to get it passed. His idea in supporting the motion for the adjournment waa to force Government to accept his proposal — the want of confidence motion — in a regular and constitutional way. The Hon J. Hah maintained fchafc the constitutional question was on tbe side of the Government. Every new Government waa cnlHtled to a fair hearing, and that was in effect whafc waß being denied to them. Ho would ask membera to do themselves the justice to allow Government to provo the state of affairs. Until that was done, they •would not accept the proposed voto, but immediately it was done tbey would be quite prepared to accept the vtfte, and if adverse, they would not take three days to reßign. There was really nothing to be gained by a postponement. Thafc would not force on the motion of no confidence any sooner. Mr DeLautoub Batd'fchafc the queation was — whether the House had confidence in Government or nofc. Government declined to allow the motion of >no confidence to come in, and this was the only way they could take to get at the question. The Hon W. Romeston Bcouted the idea of *a motion for an adjournment being accepted as a vote of wanfc of confidence, and eaid thafc Government at all events woidd not accept it in thafc light. Mr Kelly spoke against the motion for an adjournment. The debate was interrupted by the 5.30 p.m. adjournment. On rosuming, Mr Moss quoted from Parliamentary authority to show that it was not competent for a Government to mse its position to call in question tlie acts of its predecessors. Whatever information they obtained thoy would therefore have to bottle up until again in opposition. Major Atkinson quoted from Hansard to show that when the Bill was lasfc beforo tbe House in the session of 1875, Sir George Grey, Messrs Macandrew and Sheehan voted against tho Bill, and he (Major Atkinson) voted for it. Tho Hon W. Gisborne spoke in favour of the adjournment of the Bill. He contended that tae question of no conSdence or otherwise, took the precedence of this or any other measure. Mr KEr,LY strongly deprecated the course pursued by tbe Opposition in attempting to delay the business. Mr Adams followed on tho samo side, and quoted from an authority oa Parliamentary practice to show thab a vote of want of confidence shou'.d not be brought forward before tho Ministry had an -opportunity of disclosing their policy. He expressed a strong opinion that it was tho wish -of the country that the Government, as constituted, shou'd have a fair trial. Ho appealed to the independent members not to give up the timo of the country to tho contending factions, but rathor join heartily in getting these measures passed into hw. Mr Saunders said it was singular that one member of the lato Government should be so anxious to claim the Bill, whilo another member wanted to repudiato it altogether. Tho fact was that it was a Sir George Grey measure, and the other members of the late Government had had very little say in tho matter. They had been told of gross malversation of oflice by the late Government, and jet in tbe faco of this they wanted to get back before tho charges •could be investigated. Such conduct waa simply shameful, and he was surprised Sir Georg-j Grey, who had hitherto held an honourable place in the estimation of the Colony, should be found lending himself to carry out this purpose. If tho new Government did not succeed in making good their chargea after reasonable opportunity had been afforded, ho for ono would desert their cause. On the other hand if they did, then he hoped that very few would be prepared to give the late Government further support. The question of adjournment; was then pufc and a division takon, as follows : — 4.YES— 3B. Noes— 3o. J Messrs Andrews Messrs Adams Ballanco Allwright Barron Atkinson Brown Bain Bunny Beetham DcLautour Bowen Finn Brandon Fisher, J. B. Bryce Fisher, J. T. Fulton George Gibbs Gisborno Hall Sir G. Grey Hirsfc Messrs Hamlin Hursfchouso Harris Johnston Hislop Kelly Hutchison Kenny Ireland Levin Lundon Masters Macandrew M'Caughan M'Donald M'Lean Montgomery Moorhouse Pvke Murray Reeve* Oliver Reid Pitt Seddon Richmond Sheehan Rolleston Shephard Saunders Shrimski Seymour Speight Stevens Stewart Sutton Swanson Tamoana Tainui Trimble Tawhai Wakefield To Wheoro Whitaker Thomson Williß Tolo Wright Turnbull Wood PaibS. Ayes.— Noes.— Messrs Colbeck Messrs Whyte Wallis Driver Moss Dick Shanks Mason Hurst Studholme Tho Hon J. Hall said that two of his supporters were away, and had nofc paired. JMr AiLWßianT eaid thafc the Government Benches must not take it for granted that he would vote with them on the "No Confidence " motion. His object in voting wifch fche Noes was fco see business got on with as fast as possible. Mr Sheehan then moved- "Thafc tho debate on tho Bill bo resumed next sitting day." Mr Wakefield denounced the conduct of the lato Premier and his friends as beiug as bad and unconstitutional as ifc could bo. One good effect of the day's proceedings was that the leader of the Opposition had been disclosed. Mr Sheehan himself had, in a greafc measure taken the work out of his hand. He went on to quote from a speech made by Mr Sheehan two years ago, to show that his conduct to-day in moving tho amendment jusfc carried was in direct opposition to tho sentiments expressed by him on that occasion. He went on to say that he quito agreed with the sentiments expressed by Mr Sheehan on that occasion, and which confirmed his own opiuion that Government was quite righfc in taking no notico of the want of confidence motion with which they wero threatened. He scouted the idea that because ono or two men who had supported them in their late proceedings, now thought fit to waddle over to the other side, tho Houso had no confidence m Government as constituted. These same men might waddle back again to-morrow, or else they might drop into the oblivion they so richly merited. He combatted the opinion thatthe wording of the late wanfc of confidence motion justified tho late Government in insisting that a reconstruction should have taken place. The motion was directed against the Premier, and it was a well known fact that if the Premier was defeated his colleagues must of necessity resign. He referred to a similar vote carried by Mi Stafford against the Vogel Government, and showed that they gavo in their resignation at onco, and no attempt was made afc a reconstruction, although the motion was worded in similar terms to fche late want of confidence motion. He was quite convinced , that tho Opposition was afraid of the disclosures thafc would be mado regarding public i finance if the Government were allowed to ini vestigate matters. But for that it would not i matter whether the proposed voto of want of confidence wob made to-day or at some . distant day. WELLINGTON, Oct. 11. i After Mr Wakefield, in the House last i night, Mr Speight spoke, and then Mr Downie Stewart, who said that the Liberal party . having succeeded in getting rid of Sir George

Greene would now give a free support to the Hon J. Macandrew. After a few words from Mr Rolleston and Mr Murray, the Houae adjourned.