ABOLITION OF THE PROVINCES.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 2039, 19 September 1874, Page 3

ABOLITION OF THE PROVINCES.

The following, from the New Zealand Herald of Sept. 9, is that portion of Mr T. B. Gillies' (member for Auckland City West) address to his constituents on Sept. 8, which relates to the above subject. Mr Gillies, it should be remembered, is Ei-Saperintendent of Auckland, and was Colonial Treasurer in Mr Stafford's twenty-eight days' ministry : — " The financial statement contained very - much of which he approved, especially the part towards the end of the statement : 'In the hour of need a bold policy was required ; let us none the less determine to shape that policy r .with prudence.' He fully recognised the wisdom of the policy of prudence, which was the policy adopted by the Opposition some two years before, and he was only too glad to Bee the Treasurer adopt it, as he had almost every idea that the Opposition bad endeavoured to realise. Instead of placing the interest upon loans, he had endeavoured to place bb much interest of loans as possible upon the Consolidated Bevenue. The financial statement was made on the 21st July, on which occasion there was no sign of the Government desire to abolish the provinces, and in speaking of them the Treasurer referred to the provinces of ; Auckland, Westland, and Kelson, as requiring assistance from the Consolidated Bqvemie. Speaking of the provinces, the Treasurer said " Auckland's case is by far the worst. It will take it some years to work round and enjoy the future, which I fully believe is before it. Westland deserves much sympathy, and so on with regard to Nelson." That was the Treasurer's idea with regard to the provinces on the 21st July. These expressions may have been perfectly true with regard to the province from a politician's view, withregard to the Provincial Government, but upon a general view the condition was not so lamentable, for the province was in a sound condition. It was a great pity that a distinction waa not made between Provincial Governments and the provinces themselves. He would also observe that the provinces held up for sympathy were not all North Island provinces, two of them belonged to the South Island: — Nelson and Westland, — and he felt inclined to ask why they were left out of the general good promised as the issue of the Government resolutions. With regard to the advance loana of 1870, £150,000 per jgaE_Jsraa--^rOvided for Defence and Native purposes, which loan would have come to an end on the 30th June hist, but half -the amount only was taken for last year, and the other half remained as revenue for the next year, so that the Native Minister did not during the recent session require a fresh loan. It would, however, be necessary for him to do so next year, or else disband the. Native Department, which latter contingency,'the speaker hoped would be neoessary. There was a feeling on the mind of the Treasurer that loans on behalf of New Zealand could not be raised as easily now as formerly. Of this there could be no doubt. The papers laid before the Assembly showed that the last loan of one million and a half was taken up by tender, and that the additional bonus of one per cent had to be given to the money market, in order to enable the loan to be floated. This, was a significant fact, and one recognised by the Treasurer, and there are ex- ' pressions used to show that he is under the impression that things are not so favourable to the raising of loans. [A voice: "A good job, too."] The speaker continued : There are other ways of borrowing money besides going to the open London market; ways that it might be as well they should know of. In the new loan ; bill for four millions additional, there were provisions not only that the GoYernmenfc should be able to borrow the four millions by tender in the open market, but that; the. whole might be pledged, advances taken against them, put in pawn ; in fact,. that the money might be raised anyhow, as long aa it did not cost more than 6 per cent. I meant that if the debentures did not float in the London market they would take them to this or that Bank and get advances upon them. In 1870, when the first four million loan was authorised, the law only allowed the hypothecation by short debentures or mortgage of one million out of the four ; but in the last loan the whole of the loan may be hypothecated. He believed it wa9 well to keep the constituents advised upon the finance of the colony. According to the statement placed in their hands, the indebtedness of the colony, on the 30th of June last was £13,411,013— thirteen and a half millions. From that some people would deduct a sinking fund, leaving it twelve and a quarter millions ; and out of that there was an unused power to borrow fully a million and a half, which the Government might raise any day they chose ; and to this sum was added, during the recent session, the power -to raise four millions — that is, as ■oon as they choose they have the power to

increase the debt of New Zealand to between eighteen and nineteon millions of money. In the beginning of 1870, we were to borrow £350,000 per year, an.l i.ablea were prepared shewing how the interest could bo easily met, *and. how on the third ye.'tr after the borrowing commence J, the profits of the railways would, very nearly pay the whole of the in-! terest. The third year had come, and, ac- j cording to the Treasurer's statement, the difference was this — that between June 30, 1873, and June 30, 1874, our debt had been increased exactly three millions, and that was the rate at which we were going on. The question of what we got for this was not a political, but a practical one, and they could look forthemselves, and ascertain what they were getting. There was, however, one more good thing they had done for the colony — they had raised' their own - screws from«£loD to £150. He was sorry he was not present when that was done, but had no doubt but that the colony would receive the benefit of it. The Forest Bill had been brought down early in the session. Its second reading came on. on the 2nd of July, and that bill was pregnant with great results. The bill was brought in by the Government, and proposed to take pne-third per cent, of the total area of the colony and to create and conserve the State forests. He longed to see the forests guarded, and thought it foolish for us to destroy them and not create new ones ; but when he found that- the Government did not mean to spend the money to bring up other forests — not to do that merely, but to concede our forest lands and attempt to conserve them he opposed, and for the reason that he had never known a Government able to conserve forests lands. He had seen forests in the hands of Provincial and General Governments, and they had been less conserved than those in the hands of private individuals. When he found that by taking foreßt lands Bleepera could be got cheaper, and the screw could be put on contractors for them, he opposed it, because he believed it was unnecessary, and that the Government could not do what they professed to do, except by creating an enormous staff, and expenses greater than the conserving would realise. A very animated debate took place, a number of members spoke, and the bill received very rough handling, very much to the disgust of its author, the Treasurer. When he replied, on the 4th Augußt, he showed most unmistakably that he was out of temper, and came down upon the Superintendent of Wellington furiously, and then showed his teeth at the North Island. Between tbe time of the reading of the bill and the reply to it, a gentleman of great ability, well known in Auckland — Mr Thomas Russell — arrived at Wellington, and from him he (the speaker) first heard the idea of the abolition of the provinces of the North Island. Knowing the influence that that gentleman has with the members of the Assembly, and with the Government, whatever Government it is, he could not help connecting the fact that Mr Yogel, in reply upon his Forest Bill, announced for the first time his idea of doing away with the North Island provinces on the 21et July. In his financial statement he had no thought of doing away with them, but was going to assist them ---Auckland, and Nelson, and Westland — and he had done so since. Then there was not a whisper of abolishing them, but on the 4th August he announced the possibility, not intention, ' that unless they be civil to me, and unless that cantankerous Superintendent of Wellington be civil, I shall abolish him and them/ After the matter was announced, there was a great deal of talk about it. There were members who were always opposed to provinces who said Mr Yogel ought to kill them. He believed Mr Header Wood was prepared to bring forward a series of resolutions of his own upon the subject. Indeed, his intention was known to the Government, and had considerable influence in bringing about the precipitate action of the Government. Mr Vogei said the resolutions by Mr Wood could not be carried, as the Government had a block vote to prevent that if they chose. Mr Header Wood told his constituents that if he had proposed resolutions for the total abolition of provinces, only twelve votes would be for it. He (Mr Gillies) thought there would be twice twelve at least, yet they would not have been carried. Thus, while aprivate member could not carry then?, the Government could do so with a large majority. With regard to Mr Vogel'a speech on the motion, he never heard him deliver a feebler speech, or a speech more illogical. [Reads.] The main reason given for the abolition was that really the colony provided funds for carrying on Provincial Institutions. He almost forgot that the North Islaad was a part of the colony. He spoke as though the provinces were something outside the colony, and the funds of the colony were simply derived from the component parts of it. When Mr Yogel said the colony was dispensing funds to the provinces it was no more than saying that it was expending money raised out of the provinces in the North Island as well as the South ? Was not money raised upon the credit of the North Island as well as of the South P It might be that more had been spent in the North Island than was derived from it. But this was a matter somewhat doubtful. Ad- j mitting that it was so, was that taking a colonial view of things, that because it was necessary to spend more in one particular part of the colony, therefore that province was to be abolished ? It was said that the provinces threw hindrances in the way of immigration, colonisation, and public works. Let there be fair play. This was not a charge to be laid against the provinces. He defied Mr Yogel to prove that the provinces were hindrances to the settlement of the interior. On the contrary, the provinces did everything possible to encourage it. [Mr Gillies pointed out several contradictory statements in Mr Vogel's speech.] In the course of the speech there were various sops. Lyttelton and New Plymouth were to have harbours. All the Superintendents were to have their salaries paid during the term of office. The Superintendent of Auckland was to have a life provision. He believed better of the Superintendents and of Mr Williamson that he or they would accept such baits. One result was that one of the Executive of a small province had joined the Ministry, and taken the place honourably vacated by Mr O'Rorke. (Cheers.) Mr Vogol's resolution, as often stated, was three-fold. He had a word to say about the so-called compact. A compact was an agreement between two parties. This was a resolution in the House of Representatives by a majority, and not a large majority. It was no agreement. It was never ratified by law. And resolutions of the House were not all considered so sacred as that of 1856. It was only in 1870 that there was not merely a resolution, but an Act, that provinces should have 40s in that year, 38s in the next, and never less than 30s. If ever there was a compact,

that was one. The Act was assented to by the Q-overaor. But the very next yt?ar that Act was repealed, at the request of Mr Yogel, and instead of 303 the provinces got 159. The taxation was raised. Taxation had been abstracted from them. Now they had been left with alinoßt nothing. They were now taunted with imDecuniosily, and were told, " Because you are poor you must, be wiped out." Having been robbed, they must be wiped out. Ihe statesman who would wipe them out should shew what was to be put in their etead. Those brought up under free Constitutional Government would cling to the idea that they had a right to local self-govern-ment, by whatever name it might be called . Mr Yogel would cut up the country into divisions and endow them. His idea was that something like the Timaru Road Board should be adopted. Mr Yogel then said he would like local machinery to relieve the labour of the House, and that there must be a Resident Minister for Auckland. Some who favoured the scheme said it was one step in the right direction — that some of the province? abolished, the others would follow. They say that on the principle "Better half a loaf than no bread." That was a mistake. It was based on the utter verdancy of the ideas of the Premier on the subject. They said the Premier meant to abolish all, but they were to give him time. Take the proposal with regard to the Southern Island ; was that honest ? (No, no.) He (Mr Gillies) would like to hear the Premier say what others said for him. Mr Yogel said there was no menace in the resolutions to the Middle Island. Mr Yogel said it was desirable that the compact should be definitely settled, and the seat of Government should be fixed by legislation. But the people were told a few nights ago that this was all " leather and prunella." It was done to catch the Southern and Wellington votes. I£ the Premier should not succeed in catching these votss, h,e might throw them overboard. Mr Yogel might have said at the caucus that the baits not having been taken, he was prepared to throw them away. But that was none the more honest. He (Mr Gillies) was prepared to go in for the abolition of Provincial Governments. But he did so not on the grounds of inherent evils in their system. He did so on the ground that the continuance of the provincial system iaterfered with the development of true colonial ideas. Provincial Governments were held up as buffers between the' Colonial Government and the people. They were made to bear the blame of wrongs done to the people by the Colonial Government. If the scheme ot immigration and public works policy should fail, no doubt the blame would be put on Provincial Governments. He desired to bring tbe Colonial Government face to face with the people, whom it taxed a quarter of a million extra, and who would be taxed still further. He desired that public opinion should be brought immediately to bear upon the Government of the country. That was the only safeguard they had. The doing away with Provincial Governments in the North while retaining them in the South was making a mere experiment on the vile carcasses of those cast away. , It was doing an utterly unconstitutional thing to place the two Islands under separate Constitutions. If the Constitution was good for one let it be good for the other. Let them sink or swim together. There was a time when the North Island bore the burthen of taxation and carried the South Island difficulty on its back. If necessary, let the, South carry the North now. . He ventured to say think that in a short time the North would be able to. walk by itself and also have to bear the South. Changes in the Constitution ought not to be made without the consent of the people affected ba them. The bills to give effect to those resolutions could not operata until Her Majesty's assent should be obtained. He ventured also to think that not until the consent even of the Imperial Parliament should be obtained could such constitutional changes be made. Unless the views of his constituents were otherwise he would oppose any attempt to alter the Constitution of the North Island of New Zealand. If they were prepared to relinquish their constitutional rights he was prepared to place his resignation in their hands. He would be prepared to abolish provincial institution, "all or none." Ho would not abolish them wholly or partially without having the opinion of the people tested on the subject in the legitimate way — by dissolution of Parliament, and members elected on that express question. Such were his opinions, and he thanked the meeting for the patient attention they had given to bis address. (Cheers) . The Herald concludes its report by stating a vote of confidence in Mr Gillies was "unanimously passed in the affirmative."