SIR CRACROFT WILSON AT THE ODDFELLOWS' HALL.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 2035, 15 September 1874, Page 2

SIR CRACROFT WILSON AT THE ODDFELLOWS' HALL.

— — ..■♦., — - „ " Sir CracrofP Wilson,- the representative of the Heathcote district in the General Asi'em'blyv met the electors in the Oddfellows' Hall last evening. There was a. large attendance. The Hqn If r /Stafford occupied a seat on the platform. ;i ' i>:0 ' ■': ■ / On> the motion of Mr Wimiah Wilson, MrH. P. Murray-Aynsley was voted tothe -chair.-.; ■..■■^._~ ! -,,,-.^-.-^ -•--., • ■ . ....... The Chaibmak, ufter reading the advertiser ment convening the meeting, said that it was "unnecessary for him to do more than call 'iipon them to give a patient hearing to Sir Cracrof t Wilsons During the last Session of the Assembly,; resolutions had been brought forward of great importance to the -colony as, a r whole, and particularly to this province, whfcli J had 80 large a land revenue coming in from day to day. Several members ' had Held meetings upon. one side of the, question, and nojr. they had before, them, Sir Cracrof t ■ Wilson, irhb voted 1 on the'other sideband whose views it was most important they should hear. He hoped, therefore/ that a patient hearing would be accorded to him, so that they might know what was to be said on both sides of the question, -". '■'-"■ ■'■'■ '■ *■ ' j ■ ■ . : - : '. iii Sir Wxisok, who was received with cheers, spoke as 'follows :— Gentlemen and brother electors, I thank you 'most sincerely for your attendance here to-night, and I regret that my ignorance has oaused me to 'ask you, to meet- me at an earlier hour than I underitand is usual in Ghrißtohurch. That is the reason why you have been detained for -about half an hour, but -had I knownwhat I now know, namely, that no one in Ohriatohuroh. thinks . of- rising from his -dinner or from His tea until 8 o'clock, I 'should have made my arrangements such as -would have •consorted with yours. I thank you most sincerely for coming to this meeting to-night. I think it is about 11 months ago that I addressed an audience in the Canterbury Music Hall, and consequently; it will not be necessary for me to do what has been done by other members, namely, to give you a history of the proceedings of the General Assembly for the last three years. My communications : to you. are only>eleyen months old, and I shall not weary you with old stories and taleß of whathas gone by, but shall confine myself more particularly to. the session which has recently closed.' 1 believe that ' a man oan very easily weary an audience. It is exceedingly easy for a public man to turn to Hansard and read out long pages. Two Hours are very easily spent over that production ; but I am not going to treat you to that ; whatever I may give will be emanations from my own heart, and I trust you will believe me when. l say in all sincerity that lam telling you what I solemnly believe to be true. (Applause.) Of course, I know well enough — it would be impertinent in me to affect that I do not know — that the great subject that has been agitating the minds' of the people for some weeks has been these. resolutions with regard to the abolition of provincial institutions.- I beg leave to state that it is not the abolition of the provinces exactly; it is the abolition of provincial institutions in the provinces of the North Island. I think there is a great difference between abolishing the provinces and abolishing provincial institutions. Provincial institutions Have, as I think, done their task and done their duty in many of the provinces. (Applause.) I will go further, and I will say that, except in the provinces of Canterbury and Otago, expensive provincial institutions hadbetterceaseto exist throughout New Zealand, and I think that I can convince you in the course of to-night that I am right in what I have advanced. Soon after my advertisement appeared in the Press calling this meeting, I met a facetious friend, who shall be nameless, in the city of Christcburoh, and he said to me — probably alluding to the impending tightness in the money market — " So you, too, I see, are going to call a meeting of your creditors ! " (Laughter.) I smiled ; sometimes we do smile ; sometimes with a good grace, and sometimes with a bad one ; I tried to do it with a good grace, but my facetious friend was very near the mark. When I returned from England, and the seat for the Heathcote district was Vacant, you all rallied round me and returned me without putting me to the expense of one single farthing, beyond the trifle I spent in advertising in the newspapers, although I know that other members have been eleoted at a cost to , themselves of £400 or £500. So far, lam your debtor, and you, gentlemen, are my creditors. (Laughter.) ■I have always appeared before my constituents once a year, and I now renew that same performance which I annually undertake, and I hope that I will bring before you a balance-, sheet, that I shall p^y you in full, which is much more than most debtors can Bay — in the city of Christchurch, at least — (applause)— and that you will grant me my discharge without the interference of any attorney whatever. (Cheers.) Of course, the subject which you have most at heart, and have thought upon most, or, at any rate, if you have not 'thought upon it most it has been most thrust upon you, is this resolution that was passed, doing

away with provincial institutions in the provinces of the North Island. Well, o£ course, it is my duty, as your representative, to begin with a subject upon which you feel the greatest interest, and, therefore, I shall commence with that subject ; but as those resolutions arose out of a previous debate, and the plant grew in a most extraordinary way, I think I had better Degin from the commencement of the growth of that plant ; how the seed was sown, and how the tree ripened and produced fruit. I trust you will agree with me, and think that I am right in so doing. The Premier introduced a Forest Bill, and any man who has studied the subject as I have done — and 1 have giveria great deal of time in past years', and of late, tothe consideration of the conservation of ,foresta-r-----must be perfectly persuaded, as I am, that the Premier was right in that .respect. I can give an instance that occurred- close to one of my own properties, in which, a foreafc ofiblac^ birch, nearly 300 acres . in extent, was, -.burnt down in the most reckless manner. ,It will take 200 years to replace it, and if you calca« late there were only 150 trees to, every r acre, whioh is a very-close allowance during c the first ten years of the growth of a forest, there would be 450,00Q bees destroyed in that fire; I say that it is the bounden duty of- a Minister, when he knows how much the prosi perity of a epuntry depends upon the rainfall of that country— and we know by experience that the rainfall does depend upon the'for^sti, particularly on the summits of mouatainlj— l say it was his bounden duty to bring <in such a bill. I should have supposed that thbcon^ serration of forests in a country where:- ws have not too much rain, would have met wijih no opposition ; but what was the, result]? \\Axs acrimonious debate took place. I think four Superintendents attacked this , 'bill t-oQ.th and nail. . It was said to be a design to pillage from the provinces two millions and a half of_theis land.— [A voice: "Hear, h.ear"j-rit.iwasi3i plan to get possession, by : a side wind, pfdand, which the members of the General Assembly had positively refused to give' tinder other sir* cumstances. Well, gentlemen, if any 6f.ypti think that is right, I only wish he had studied the subject of forestry as much as I havo,andt he would say that it was nothing of the kind. The Premier wanted the, colony to takejovei* the burden of paying the interest on theoos^ of~ the railways running -through— those-pro^ vinces which gave up part of their lands fotf forests. It may be said that it was a fiction, and that they could never pay the interest'of railways. lam not going into the question now ; all .Hcaii say ia" that the reward was offered, and I believe it was offered in perfect sincerity. The; debate. became: exceedingly acrimonious, more •sa,than quiet and orderly audiences, such aa I have been aeoustomed to see in Ohrißtchurch, would credit j for I : musfi say the demeanour of the House of Bepresen« tafcivea is everything that the mobt oufefel^edl and polished ' ■ iociety could <-■ desire' ordinary occasions, but there was ah 1 acrimony' infused into this debate . whioh.; astonished many of us old members; and whioh was more; particularly displayed by .Mr Fitzherbert, the Superintendent of WelUngton./\^enJh9'ad'op« ted this line, an extraordinary thing occurred. We all know the name ot Mr Tpx,' wHo 1 f hSs been for the most part a coadjutor of e &£r ) Fitzherbert since the. foundation of $18 colony, and he ; was dotually''drSve^,;;Bytma acrimony used and the ingratitude • ~d|fi* played by Mr Fitzherbert;'' o'd th'e^'pkrt of the province of Wellington, •t£waro*£ the Premier, to get up' ; ; and ■' tieolare that the Premier had been the beet friend to Wellington, and had been the making of that province during the past three, years; and he said that he was Bhocked at the^.jine Mr Fitzherberl; ' was' adopting. 1 ; "Ydu;l^ow that an angry word begets an angry : worct^: the debate continued fora long titte, > when the. Premier rose to reply, hVgave-JMi-Fitzherbert quite as good; aa he had got froni- ! him. In his reply -he stated that ibwaitfthankless task — I am not! going to give- hia i exact words ; I have brought, no Hansard '• here ; I have my, heart full of what I want to tell you, and I do not wish to refer to : printed books— lie said that- if "he " ha3r got to finance : for ungrateful provinces : who thwarted every attempt of the General,Government, even when that Governme^ desired to benefit the provinces and ih£ colony at large, it would be far better: that, the provinces should be done away witH ((hanr ; that such a system should continue. -In ttis : way these resolutions arose. I am not going ; to deny that in the financial statement of tha< Premier he did not say that there we're -pro-*] vinces in the moat abject distress ; he eaid' that it was painful to go into their, accoantf,and suggested that Nelson shbuld get 'assist' ance to* the extent of £50,000 for this yjaar.and that Auckland could not mpye tfithb^pj assistance to the extent of £25j6(k). (Applause.) He said this long before any acrimony had arisen, and it was true that that was the amount of support which he wjahed to give to those provinces to. keep them on their legß for the current '- year. Well, 1 gentlemen, do you not think that when provincial institutions have to be supported by money raised, hundreds i. of:, miles off, that the functions of those provinces 7 have been performed,, and that they are now:) ripe to retire into what in private life" wai should call the obscurity from which^they; have emerged ? It was. high time when suonf large sums were wanted from the commoni purse of the colony to keep them on their legs; for the current year. In this way the acrimony of the debate brought this subject much more forcibly before the mind of . the Premier.and, the minds of other members, and led to the introduction of these resolutions. ' Yon may; tell me that this arose in a fit of pique. All I ' have to say is, if I see a good thing arise, I am not careful as to its source or origin* (Applause.) If I knew a thing was right three years ago, and a fortuitous circumstance occurs, and I see that now is my time to strike when the iron is hot, do you think that lam 1 going to withhold my hammer P (Cheers.) I • wanted to see a stop put to maintaining, out, of the money of the colony, institutions which r can no longer do good, and when we had got,, what the sailors call, " a slant" to get rid ;i pf ; them, of course I availed myself of that slant, r and if 1 had not done so I should have been deserving of blame at your hands. (Applause.) ■ Well, as I tell you, the financing of thefd,/ bankrupt provinces had clearly shown, in <the< Financial Statement, to be a great burden jand when, in addition to that, ingratitude,; opposition, and virulence was added, why, or. course, the man turns round and says, " I had,/ better get rid of them." Shakespeare aajrs--?.r " How sharper than a serpent's tooth it.ifl > To have a bhankless child." , , ; J) And why should our Premier be more con; ■-, siderate than Shakespeare ? To that ingrati> > tude and that virulence and intemperance, we ( owe the introduction of these resolutions., Ifc, was, I think, on the 31st July that this speech, , of Mr Fitzherbert's was utjiered. The Promieci replied on the 4th of August to the opponents:, of the Forest Bill, and it was carried ■without 2

a division. I am now coming to the coiumencoment of this — well, I don't like to call it "shindy," which, to an Irishman at any rate, is very expressive, but I will designate it by an Italian word, and say, this fiasco. On the 6th August, the Premier was smarting under what he had heard from Mr Fitzherbert, and, of course, delighted with the defence Mr fox -had made in his favour, and came down and made what he calls a Ministerial explanation. He is in the habit of doing these things.' He Bometimea gets up and says he wants to say something on the part of the Ministry, and so we get a Ministerial explanation now and then. He explained that ttltbpugh:he would not bring down a bill this session to do away with provincial institutions in; the North Island, he would bring down resolutions affirming the desirability of such a step.: Notice was given of these resolutions — I need not read them, as you understand what they are, and I do not want to take up your time unnecessarily. Those twhb- had opposed the Forests BUI on the plea that it was a pretext for getting hold of land i»- certain provinces, held a meeting. It is reported that at that meeting they were very irate at this, and were going to do all sorts of things; were going to raise a fund in order to pust obstinate; and unworthy fellows like myself, who had supported ths bill, at the elections; It was proposed at that meeting by one member— l have a way of hearing these things;; although 1 did not procure them by Bribing a female telegraphic operator. (Laughter.) I get them in a straightforward, bnsiness-like way— it was proposed by Mr Macandrew, I believe, that Mr Reeves, 1 the member for the Selwyn, should lead the Opposition, and become Treasurer of the Colony. (JAs .foice : '* An honest 'man, too.") I hope we. may be all honest men, and yet tell the truth*. I am going to tell the truth. (Applause.) Well, after this meeting, the .Premier, moved ' the resolutions on Thursday the; 13th: August. I am not going to enter into: the long statement of accounts which he g»ve" as a reason that the provinces had done their duty in the North Island, and that provincial institutions should exist no longer. He b gave a statement -for three years of the money he had been obliged to advance to keep them on their legs,: and any one who UkeaLto look at them, and cares for accounts, will find them at page' 575 of Hamard, No. 12, 1874. I have abstained from reading yovtthese accounts : they are enough to show thafcvit ; is wrong to maintain bankrupt institutions ; nor am I going to trouble you with tbei arguments he deduced from them ; they are worth studying, and they will enlighten many; men j and perhaps make them think that" these resolutions should have been passed' three years ago.' That is the conviction onviny ;mind after reading them, and I recommend those who believe -that the pro? ▼inolal institutions of the North Island should continue to exist,; to study these figures. As e"dbn as Mr Yogel sat' down' : after the speech with which he introduced these resolutions, Mr-o?Rorke, : who was supposed to be Minister of Justice— it is very incomprehensible to me how he' ever become a Minister at all ; I have in 'vain tried to find, either from his antecedents] or anything connected with him, how he was"' ever put on the Ministerial bench ; the only conclusion lean come to is that he was a member of the Auckland province, and they did- not know who to put in, and they said, "Oh, let O'Eorke go in/ (Laughter.) It is ri£.fiitidn of my own, it is a fact that if the Ministerial seats are not fairly divided among the' provinces there is sure to be a row, and I presume that Mr O'Eorke was put in as a sort df- buffer- or make-weight for the Auckland firoviritoe.tt Well> he got up, and made a speech which is reported in the same volume of Satisard to' whidh I lave referred, and of all the extraordinary proceedings that' ever took place in a 1 deliberative. Assembly, I think the exhibitionrithat; was made by Mr O'Eorke was the most Extraordinary. Perhaps, after aIL.-I.am' wrong; : : If you remember . the debate in the Houseof Lords on. the ' Corn. Laws, you will wiU; r tor;*mind that" Lord Brougham, after making ! a great speech in favour of the. abolition of the Corn Laws, went down on his knees arid entreated his brother lords to pass itie bill, in the most fervent terms ever uttered ih.a deliberative Assembly. I may be wrong,' therefore, in saying that Mr O'Eorke's speech was the most extraordinary that' was ever uttered ; it certainly was the most extraordinary that I had ever witnessed, although not, perhaps, that I, had read of. That a man, after being in conference with his colleagues, not having declared, "I must resign if you lrißist ; on introducing these resolutions,"/ but having merely said, "Yogel, you cannot expect me to acquiesce in these resolutions of yours," — that a man who only says this in the Ministerial, conference, and waits until' the resolutions have been introduced, and then, from his seatas.a Minister, turns round and says that hfl'-^l "np stand this, and that if he did so, he should deem himself a traitor to his constituents. [Mr Nairn : "Hear, hear."! Yes.; I -\ will say to my friend who applauds, but! he little thought of the treachery he was at. that moment exhibiting — that he was a traitor to his chief. (Loud cheers.) He was personally a traitor to his chief at the very same time that he was parading to the world his, innocence of treachery to, his constituents. The man who would betray his chief in that way is not to be trusted by any constituency, inthe wprld. (Cheers.) Why.Bhould ; he not do that to the constituency, when he does it to tie chief under whom he has . served for months, and perhaps years ? He should have said, "I must resign ; here is my resignation; I Teaye your Ministry ; fill up my place." I could understand that, but I cannot understand ft-man waiting until the very last moment, and trhenf- the , resolutions had been introduced, Setting up in his place and making a theatrical isplay of the absence of treachery to his constituents, and the presence of treachery to his ohief,,, {Applause.) It was a funny little scene; and I am going to give you some of it. Ail', envelope was -brought in by a messenger and given to Mr O'Eqrke— my informant was a!member of the Legislative Council who was sitting; in the gallery immediately over the Ministerial benches. This envelope came while »Mr Yogel was speaking with reference to Jbhe resolutions ; it was opened, and the enciosiire taken out, and from it that speech was; read by Mr O'Eorke. Who wrote that speech"- and enclosed it I cannot tell, but those are .the, facts connected with the case. I daresay^ jTjinay hear something of this from Auckland; I hope I shall. I don't know what; course I should have adopted if I had been in Mr O'Eorke's place under similar circumstances.; Thank God, I have never been treacherous,- and I can't imagine that part of the business, but, at any rate, I would rest on my own bottom. (Cheers.) After this, he took : up his hat, walked down the Chamber, ftifcT took his seat on the cross-benches. I understand that he has been glorified in Auckland. Theyihaye not burned him in effigy as they have burned Mr Yogel. lam a great

advocate for cremation — (laughter) — and all I can say is, so long aa they don't burn me while lam alive, I don't care ; they may do as they like afterwards. But don't ask me to do a dirty act, or tell what I know to be a lie and a falsehood ; and don't ask me to be guilty of treachery to a man who is trusting me, and who believes that I am acting in unison with him. (Applause.) After this fiasco, uprose Mr Reeves. He had moved the adjournment;, of the debate on the 13th, and I think it was! resumed on Monday, the 17th, and he enacted to the life the part of a leader of Opposition ; but he distinctly said in the opening part of his speech that he was not only not the leader' of the Opposition, but that he wasnot connected with any party whatever. Of course, we all believe him. All we know is that he : did enact the part of leader of the Opposition while he said that he wa3 not leading the Opposition, and not connected with any party whatever. I hope I have done him no in justice. All other business was suspended, and the debate proceeded day by day until eight o'clock on Thursday evening, the 20th August, when the resolutions were carried by a majority of 25— tke ayes being 41, and the noes 16. (Applause.) ' By the kindness and consideration and favour of the electors of Christchurch, I have been a member of the General Assembly since 1861, and I do not think that on any occasion upon which a division was insisted on I have ever seen a majority of 25. I have seen Ministers turned out repeatedly by a majority of one, but such a vast majority I do not think I have ever witnessed before. It proves pretty well that we all thought that the time was come, and that the extravagance of keeping up two governments where there wbb no necessity for them should cease. (Cheers.) Let me examine the division list for you and in concert with you. It is said that eleven members out of the sixteen forming the minority, held places of emolument under or intimately connected with the maintenance of provincial institutions. When such a thing as this occurs, I am in the habit of falling back upon that education which a kind good father gave me, and I try to call to mind some similar example from the number of histories I have read. Doeß no instance strike you, my friends, of some persons whose case is recorded in history, who are very similary circumstanced to these eleven. Allow me to suggest one. Did you ever hear of one Demetrius, a silversmith, who resided at Ephesus, and who, calling together the brethren of his craft, created a commotion against the introduction of Christianity, and opposed Paul and his coadjutors for two reasons — one, that they said, the Gods of Demetrius were no Gods, and the other that the emoluments the latter derived from their trade would cease, and. 'their craft be in danger of being set at nought. (Cheers.) I am afraid that we have more than one Denjetrius amongst us just now. I will go further and say, there are a great many Demetriuses, and I think there are a great many people, who in this year of grace 1874, would not hesitate to cry out, " Great is Diana of the Ephesians ! " (Loud cheers.) Let me descend to more recent times. Have we not known that certain persons endeavoured to prevent the introduction of civil marriages by register ? Have not persons who have thought of being married by a registrar, after the office became legal, have they not been attacked and addressed in some words like' these,— "l warn you how you bring the lady of your love, the bride of your ieart,.into that equivocal position which a civil marriage necessarily entails ? " I take it that those persons who used such arguments had very substantial' reasons for saying so. (Applause.) I was one of those who struggled hard to get Torrens' Act introduced into New Zealand. I knew, from having been a Civil and Session Judge for ten years of my life, the miseries entailed by titles to land which, although good and honest as a matter of fact, were yet technically deficient, and year after year I asked questions . in the Assembly as to what . had become of Col. Torrens' AcV. It was eight years before that Act could get out of the precincts of the city of Auckland. And why waß that the case? Because, of course, there was a vested interest which did not like Colonel Torrens' Act, and the Land Transfer Act never reached Canterbury for eleven years after it first got into the General Assembly. I think I have given you an illustration of why there are certain persons who say that rotten provinces and provincial instir tutions, although they become a burden on the colony, should be allowed to exist. One of the objections I have heard was, that the proceeding was unconstitutional — it was unconstitutional to do away with provincial institutions. Well, is there any man so absurd, certainly none of those w,ho hear me now, who could declare that provincial institutions are otherwise than transitory ? I ask you to look back to old England in the early days, when Heptarchy was in existence. There were then seven provinces in England ; but where would the England of 1874 be.'if ; the Heptarchy had not been done away" with ! We all know that these provincial- institutions were transitory, and all we have to decide is, when have they done their work, when have they ceased to do good work, and. when have they become unprofitable and unproductive. That is the question we have to decide, and I have no hesitation in saying that the provinces of Canterbury and Otago, at the present time, are the only ones in which provincial institutions should be allowed to exist any longer. , I will go further, and say, that colonisation having been taken up by the General Government, and public works having been taken up by the General Government, so soon as the land of those two provinces, Canterbury and Otago, is disposed of, we must then take into consideration, and not till then, whether Provincial institutions ought to last any longer in those provinces. (Applause.) Now, I may offend some of you, and hurt long cherished feelings, but I will aay this, that ib is my firm belief that when provinces have done the:r duty they should cease to exist be they where they may. To keep Nelson going, w,e must give her £50,000 this year. Is that a price you wish to pay ? They have sold all their land, they have spent all their money, and now they come to the people of the colony to enable them to keep up a Government which endorses the farce of Ministerial responsibility, without a sixpence to pay for it. (Cheers.) I know I am addressing Englishmen of some sense, and you will not think it right to pay £50,000 to keep tip the farce of provincial responsibility, and for no good whatever. (Cheers.) . When .the Premier has proved financially that these institutions ought not to exist, and .that when members, but, more particularly, the Provincial Secretary of the province of Taranaki, gave such a clear 'state- • ment, that his province at least, should not have provincial institutions any longer, I say, can you listen to those who say, it is unconstitutional to place or record that which hag already occurred, that the provinces have lapsed ? Are provincial institutions to be kept up in spite of

the fact that the provinces have lapsed ? I am quite certain that none of you will agree to that. I say, the provinces have lapsed j let us' record it, let U3 say at once they cannot carry on, double government must .cease, and let us try and practice a little economy. I am sure you will agree with me in that. (Applause.) I have always found that if a man wants to oppose anything that is for the r good of the colony, he, says, " lfc is unconstitutional." As mj friend, Mr Stafford, remarked in the House of Representatives, 10,000 British troops were moved by one stroke of the pen, -without consulting the people; was not the seat of Go-, vernment taken from Auckland and removed to Wellington. • Did anyone say it was unconstitutional ? It enabled members to meet in the centre of the colony, and that it is a very.. pleasant place to go to. Igo there because, as the soldier says,! have /listed, but it', is /very poor fun living there for three months, and you would find it so if you tried it. Well, I' shall find no more objections, I hope, on the ground of constitutionalism, because it is just so much nonsense. Another thing that is said is, that it is a great surprise. It is a great surprise to me that provinces that .have -been bankrupt for three years, and living on what they can derive from the colony; should have been allowed to live so long. . That is the surprise tp me— not , that $hey, should be done away with. lam thankfuiand. delighted that they should be done away with, but the surprise is in the other direction, and those who look at the question fairly and properly will find that it is so. Some;, time' ago it -was currently reported that some iroa rails were sent up to Auckland by the General Government at the expense of the colony, for making some six miles of railway between Auckland and Onehunga, had not been used on that railway, but that money was wanted for payment of provincial salaries, and: that the rails were sold, and that, literally, the Superintendent; with the digestion of an ostrich, had lived upon iron. (Laughter.) Don't you think it is high time they should cease ? At any rate the General Government could not have the face to sell the rails to pay their own salaries, no matter what other iniquity they might commit. I told you that in the Financial Statement, which was made, as I said, before this fiasco took place, it was stated that Auckland must have £25,000 and Nelson £50,000, and that other sums must be doled out. I don't like to go into the miserable tale tpld^f certain provinces;' in the Financial Statement, but after such a statement can any man who pretends to be an educated man, say that the doing away with provincial institutions took him by, surprise:?. Why, that Financial Statement was printed all over the country the very night that it was delivered, and when men look and see that we have to pay £50,000 and £25,000 for keeping up certain institutions whose efficiency has passed away, can they say it is a surprise that they should be done away with? I say it is a most fortunate circumstance, and I congratulate you all and the whole of New Zealand that wo have taken a step in. the right direction and I hope we shall continue in the path. (Cheers.) Again, with respect to this "Surprise." You remember when the Premier introduced his Public Works scheme in 1870, it was said, "begin with the provinces who can afford to pay the interest 'on the money expended — Canterbury and Otago — try that first, . .and ilet us see. what is the result." But what was the answer the Premier gave? He said, " the poorer the province the more need it has of raiway. a." .It ia a. physical fact that, the .poorer a place the more need of railways, but to give railways , to,, a, place that could pay its ;own provincial Bervants, was a folly." I toted against it, and I believe incurred some reprobation, because I entreated that prudence was necessary, and, as a. last resource, I entreated, in Committee, that they should not give authority for more than four millions. I think four members voted with .me, and the whole of the rest went on the other side. But to tell us, when provinces which are bankrupt, enter into big sohemes for railways, that it is a surprise that they should cease to exist, why, the very. , result of the introduction of this scheriie was the death of the poorer provinces, and then to talk of surprise ! Uneducated, ignorant men, may say they should have railways, but if a man launches into expenditure he cannot meet, the result is the same in public as in private life. The only difference is that in private life you maybe taken up and sent over the hill, whioh is not the caße with bankrupt provinces. Another great objection has been, that the passing of the resolutions necessitates the loss of the land fund of the South Island. (Mr Nairn : Hear, hear.) I am certain that that is the grievance, that is the .carpenter's .saw that is sticking in my f rie'nd-'s^gizzafcV - My v friend, Mr Nairn, is a very shrewd man, and comes from the Land o' Cakes. He knows that 2 and 2 make 4, as well as I do and perhaps better. You may say, Mr Nairn, that my vision is limited, as Sam Weller said on one occasion. Perhaps it is, but all I can say iB that I have tried hard to see the connection between Provincial institutions and the possession of the land fund, so that doing away with Provincial institutions must necessarily involve the loss, of the land fund. I cannot too strOrigly insist upon this ; what ia there, neceflsarily, between these two things, the land fund and Provincial institutions ? Do you mean to tell me that if the land fund is to be expended where it arises, it matters whether you have a Road Board, a Municipal Corporation, or any other form of Government ? The facts stand apart, and to say that the land fund is wrapped up in provincial institutions is to tell me what is true, I cannot see it, and I don't believe it has any connection whatever. The Premier has solemnly declared to us that aIL land funds shall belong to the locality where they have arisen and shall be locally administered, That nearly satisfied me. But these quondam supporters of Mr Yogel, such as Mr Macandrew, , say, " Ab, he says this, but' he is not to ¥c believed." (Hear, hear.) Well, gentlemen, all I can say to Mr Macandrew and his kith and kin — (laughter)— is this, that the Premier was no selection «f mine; "he was no favourite of mine. I have got abused for wanting him to go gently instead of going fast, but these gentlemen who now Bay he is not to be believed, they said at that time,- that he, could not go fast enough. They wanted •" ready money, -and plenty of it." They have .trusted hitn for ffourr r years; they trusted him within a fortnight of this^asco; and they- gave : him four millions without asking a . question, and ; I saw.' that it wasiUseleßß for,. me. toi ask anyquestions, and now theytufardurid,' because he says,'" I will riot support - 'provincial' 'institutions at the expense of the colony ," ; arid- discover that 1 he' 1 has become a bad. man ;at;;once; '-iL think it is Cicero who. .says, that no man becomes a perfeQt yillanvali of a.; sudden, that" he, goes, gently into it; but here ia-an extraordinary" man, you; turn round after trusting him to -Bitch an , extent, and say "he is a rogue and not to be

trusted." (Oheers.) Would Mr Nairn, in his business, believe any man who was found to <Jo such a thing ? Not he ; and I don't either. I don't believe you will, on the evidence brought before you. It is a villainous thing for his supporters. I have supported him even against his own supporters. Witness the Bankruptcy Act. I have supported him through thick and thin when his supporters have turned against him, and I say^ it is a shame to call a man a villain because heintroduces a measure which does not suit your fancies. I have thought Mr Yogel very rash and I havesaidsoto hisface.but I never thought him a dishonourable or base man who would .de-; liberately tell a lie to deceive the public of ; New Zealand. I 'don't believe' it :his quondam friends d 0.,; but they have no ground for it, and I refuse to believe them/, For' the sake of argument I, will resume that he is" that , rara avis, a criminal steeped, in the deepest dye, 'and that he is] base enough to deceive us by a positive lie— ) : for that is the assertion. Well, evensuppos-^ ing that he. is as base as hia quondam admirers < now assert him to be, and supposing that he could get a majority of . servile members. of : Parliament to assist him in despoiling Canterbury arid Otago of their land fund. Does any ; one believe' that such an act of spoliation i would be effected by a resolution or even by an Act? If such an one iB present, I entreat him tp listen to " what ' , I . have to say. In addition to the compact of 1856, the South Island .has! paid one million sterling, a? -a epn.sideratipri for. the peaceable possessipn; of the land, fund- of the South' lsland. Are the inhabitants of the South Island such miserable poltroons as to sit still under such spoliation ? Should we not rather wVm the Ministry and the ' North Islarid that it would bring about a revolution, and : that we would resist, even, with arms in our hands, such a gross violation — (cheers)— and the, result would be that Ofcago and Canterbury would retain not only their land fund,, but their Customs and Excise duties^ whioh are worth half ay million per annum. . (Applause .) Depend upon it Ministers, though in my opinion they. have been foolishly rash, are not so rash as to rouse the. people of the Soutli Island to defend their rights by armed resist- j ance,' and I for brie should be prepared to continue the struggle to the bitter end. (Oh, oh, arid laughter.) lam not speaking in jest. I do not jest on such serious subjects. Apart altogether from the question of provincial institutions,*! would prevent one sixpence of our land fund being taken against our free will .arid consent, if rebellion and even armed resistance had to be employed to protect it. (Hear, hear,, laughter and cheers) Our friend there ■shakes-'his head. Whatj.laskyou, do the Natives do at the present time. You have got a great medicine-monger in. the North Island, and what has been the result?. You are aware that a certain road was made by the 'authorities, and still more mase. by the labour of the Maories themselves, for whioh they were Well paid. They had riot got their Crown grants for certain land through which this, road runs, and in consequence of this they instructed' their' European agent to go and shoot the -horses in the mail coach if they were driven beyond a certain point. This, agent did bxaotly what he was told to do, and shot one, pf .the leaders in the coach. Of course he waß put- into gaol arid tried for it; and I was very, much delighted to find', that ..he .got two years,, though -'he, 'is a countryman of ,my friend there. ". (Laughter.) I was glad tO,see; the law* vindicated, arid the Maories brought to their senses. All they wanted was their Crown grant, : s»nd because : they had not re-: ceiyed it they resorted to this outrage. But shall we as : Englishmen here let such an; example as t^at pass by 'uriheeded ? All I can cay for my own part is; that I shall be very.; nappy to join; in not only shooting a, leader but in shooting something else, if that be necessary to enable us to defend our rights,^ (Hear, .' hear, ( laugHter, arid cheers.) I. will resist it to ' th,e last, arid I venture to say that you will nob lose your land, fund if yon take, my advice arid act upon it. (Hear, hear.) In 1861, 1 suggested that 500 Maori lives should be sacrificed in order to bring about peace in the country, and from what I read, and from .] the people whom I consulted, I was quite certain that the sacrifice of 500 Maori lives, would have the effect of pacifying the North Island. I was hooted as being a blood-thirsty wretoh. What did my opponents do.?, I have thought very often over this., They would not allow measures, to: be taken for the speedy and decisive settlement' of Native troubles. "They mixed up a. great deal of extravagance with an immense amount of imbecility. They spent three millions of money and took 3000 lies in action, and the Almighty alone knows how many more of the Natives were killed, by those constant concomitants of war— fatigue and disease. And here I am, the bloodthirsty man; who advocated that 500 Maori lives should be' sacrificed to obtain peace. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) .In 1869, too (perhaps it was foolish of me to do so), 1 wished to put down the King movement, as I knew that nothing could be done without it, and I did volunteer toga to England to get a regiment that had been accustomed to warfare with savages. <-I did. ask for permission to get 2000 Ghoorkhas-r-. (laughter)— and I venture to say that if my proposal had been carried out, in three years': time we should have had peace and quiet in the colony. (Hear,, hear, and cheers.) It is said that the abolition of the provinces, would lead to the taking, away, of our land, fund, but no Ministry would be so foolish as tp rouse the Bpii it of resistance which the taking of- the land fund would create. ; (Hear, hear, and cheers.) If they attempt anything of that sort, we will not only shoot a. coach leader, but perhaps a great many more. Only let them come and try it. (Laughter.) I for . one wish to live in peace. I have had enough of war ; but, old as I am, if it were necessary • for me to fight, I am quite game to fightagain. (Cheers and laughter.) I will lead you, if you like, and go, at it with a halter round my neck,, and. if they gain the d ay I will . tell them to tighten iis,- (Hear, hear, and cheers.): But I may be told that these resolutions are 4 preliminary to doing away with the provinces' of the South Island. I reply that Canterbury, ■ and Otago are the .only provinces in .which ■ provincial' institutions should bo allowed to, exist, inasmuch as in all the other provinces provincial institutions are useless for good, and productive of useless expenditure ;. and when the land of the above-named provinces j is disposed of,' provincial institutions should , cease to' exißt'theraalsol. I may be told that provincial institutions have, in times past, done ' a "great 'deal pf good. ,1 am .quite ready to admit j;hat 'they have. '_ (Hear, hear.) But, have; n^ -proYinc|arauthorities done, on the other hand, a "good -deal; .of .mischief ?, (Hear,; hear.) Let; the. House of' Assembly bear witness. Is it npt ! a'great mischief, that : we:see a large province); through its provincial servants holding seats both, in thp Provincial Council and in the House of Representatives, actually altering the laws regulating the sale of

land year by year in the province to which they belong. Shall Ibe told that altering the land laws, of a country year by year is not mischievous? (Hear, bear.) , I am not going into the question of the causes of this mischievous anomaly. Men who had even an inkling of the principles of political economy in their brains, if they were honest, would not engage in such a monstrous proceeding. But one thing is to me quite clear, that it is an evil which could not exist apart from provincial institutions. I may be told,, that such anomalous proceedings are not inherently a part of provincial institutions, and that there. is a . notable , exception in . the case' of the . province of Canterbury. My answer' is, that the steady adherence of that province to its original land law is owing to two circumstances — one is the intrinsic merit and simplicity of the lapd law itself the other, is the good sense and honesty of purpose of those men who, during the last 20 years, have been members of the Council of that province. (Loud oheers.) But this exception is not owing- to provincial institutions. Again, look at the Statute Book. How many statutes are disfigured by permissive clauses. (Hear, hear.) These clauses owe their exist: JBnce.r'to "the: : provincial authorities- in the House. It must be in the memory of you all that the Premier introduced a bill last Besßion for supplying pure water to the city of Auckland. Twelve or fourteen years ago, a bill was passed sanctioning the raising, of .'" a '-loan for this purposed I But the evil has notyet been remedied.-- In rib season ia -the water in Auckland fit to drink. In summer, water is not procurable, and :how many children's deaths are , owing, to the same cause. The Premier, as I said before, introduced, last session, a bill to remedy the aril. It was opposed by many of the mem bers of the Auckland province, who at length suggested that the bill should be passed subject to a clause by which the bill was pro. hibited from coming into operation until an Ordinance of the Provincial Council of Auckland should be passed. Could absurdity, could wickedness go f urther. than this ? The compromise was rejected, and the bill was thrown out, though introduced by the Premier, who on ordinary occasions had a large majority. And Auckland is still drinking impure water, because, forsooth, a Provincial Council has special reasons of its own for, preventing pure water being introduced into that city. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) That is another evil of provincial institutions. Again, let us look fairly at the great argument adduced by. the opponents of the resolutions, viz., that provincial institutions are a guarantee for local self -government. I deny the.asßertion. Superintendents and provincial functionaries may believe this, but the peepler know a great deal better.. Need I go much further than Timaru? Need I go to the many Road Boards, and other discontents all round ? I think provincial institutions _ and local self-government two very different things. (Hear, hear.) I will give you a case, in point, which I think, will tell you how much feeling the capitals of : provinces r bay e. for- outlying districts. -The residents in a certain district, in the province ,of Nelson, held a meeting, and, they unani-; ; mously agreed tiiafe they would subscribe, the sum of £140 d, provided that' the Provincial , Government would add £700 for the purpose • bt- putting . tip- a : fence - along the. northern boundary ;tp prevent scabby sheep entering the district in question. As the. Provincial Government had received _ £800 during.; the year/under the head Of scab fines, arid ag the Road Board was prepared to undertake all the I trouble of erecting the fence it was the firm : belief of c.very member of .the meeting that no opposition., would, be offejred. j>a the :part of : the government. A, polite letter, giving coyer to the resolutions 1 was addressed to the Superintendent, who approved of the measure, and he submitted it ; tp his .Executive, who rejected it. ; The Pro-) vincial Council subsequently met, and ,the; ; member, for the district tabled a motion for' the purpose of giving effect to the prayer of the meeting. It was opposed by the Pro-, vincial Executive, and the motion was lost. I ought to add that the whole of the land of , the district had been sold years ago by the Provincial Government, and nine-tenths of . the price spent in and about the capital of the ' province. Does this slight tale speak much in ; favour- of the local self -government afforded : by. Provincial .Governments. . I may also Btote , that the dreaded evil, the scab, has invaded | the district from the north, and the resolutions I are pretty nearly paralysed by thataccuraed pest. ,'ltmay be asked what good reason exists for carrying the. resolutions. I answer: that at the close of ; the year- 1875 the debt of New • '. Zealand will , be . in . round numbers twenty i millions sterling. Very little of- this, large, sum will for a long time to come produce any | income. : The interest, payable annually, On ; the twenty millions will in round numbers be, at five per cent., including interest and sinking fund, one million. Our Consolidated Keren ue for the year '1873-74 amounted to £1,420,216. The- proposed expenditure for permanent ■ charges and ordinary services for 1874-75 is I £1,315,293. With these facts staring us in . the, face, additional taxation must inevitably ; be the result. As prudent men, economy mustbe- -the order of the day. Double Government; is an expensive toy. Cheap local Government must be substituted in bankrupt provinces, for expensive provincial institution - law making. The Defence expenditure now. .amounting to £130,000 per annum, must be reduced, and then having reduced all our expenses to the lowest possible amount, we must submit to extra taxation with the best grace that we can.. (Hear,- hear.) It may be urged that the. General Government is more- extraivagant than. Provincial Governments. ,1 am., : quite ready tp admit, that for some years past jthe extravagance has been great, but then we. cannot do without a General Government.:We cannot afford two Governments ; provincial institution^ must eventually give way, and if " "Ministers will not govern the country economically, then they must be removed, and other men put in their places. ; Now, one more word on this subject. If ' I ; were asked to give a practical illustration of' the meaning of the.. phrase -used .by-ShakeT;-spe'are, "To reason .most; absurd/ I think, I , : could hardly give a inpre forcible. Ulustratiori than that with, which everyone in New Zealand is, familiar— namely, a Superintendent; of a small province, the annual income of which is, not, sufficient to defray .the salaries of the provincial functionaries, playing, with the:, aid of his Provincial Parliament, the game of responsible Government— enacting one week a. Ministerial crisis, the next week change of Ministry, the third week a fresh Ministerial crisis, the, fourth week a second : change of Ministry, and in the fifth week his Honor the Superintendent, dismissing the members of the Provincial Parliament , with, a congratulatory speech to their homes, with an amount of honorarium' in theirpockets in proportion to the distance at which they reside from the provincial capital. (Hear, hear, and laughter.)

I think T must be tiring you — (No, no)— -and I must thank you again for the very patient manner in which you have listened to me. If I exhaust your patience in any -way, you have only to let me know, and I shall sit downafc once. I wish now to say a word or two on the Forests Bill. I supported the Forests Bill, because I know well that in other lands the result of the destruction of forests' has been the ruin of the prosperity of the country. The inhabitants of those lands of- Asia,, formerly so well-wooded and prosperous, are now bankrupt, owing to the fact that their forests haye. been > ruthlessly destroyed. Gb to the Sea of. Galilee, described by' Josephus as " the garden of the world." What do we find there now ? An arid plain so hot that it is almost impossible to stay there; owing" "to the fatal destruction of its trees, which is to , be attributed to the fact that there. iscab ' .one who cherishes the trees that- formerly flourished there. I was a witness of yhttf; happened in the Mauritius, and caused tMt : which it will take quite half a cenburytobring back to itß ; prißtine fertility; and- knowing all this, am I to-; be told that I %b.all .not ehicourage a Government • which ■■* says—" We must make the trees subserve the -purpose of bringing rain on our plains." ; (Hear, -i hear, and cheers.) The destruction .of iore.sts , here has been a perfect horror i;o me, and.; the result will be that -our, grandchildren's fields will dry, up if you do not do something in :the matter; • It cannot -be - done in ■ar day.' .- "'■&. human being reaches manhood '■ in twentyone years, but it ris -Hot so with v forests:: No forest can reach manhood and : BervjS — your purpose under: from;ilso i 6 200 yeaW. ' The people in the vicinity of Ohristehurcb have done wonders, in the matter of. itree*' planting. (Hear, hear.) And lam happyVJ4 pay a tribute to their good sense. But I entreat all of you to attend to this very im portant subject. If a forest is destroyed, recollect that it takes from one aid a- half to two centuries to restore it. I think the-.bill proposed by the Government ;waa a right measure. The opponents of the bill. said thai if. the two millions and a half of acres of land were going to be pinched from the colony,they would not support it j but I maintain' that they would be benefited by it in crops^ in hoalth, and in other respects. -.(H^ar/hear, and cheers.) ... But the opponents of ?the bill said they could not support it, becaode! AiP was an attack on the provinces. I maintain; that if it is an attack on the proyinces^itf^S one of the most useful measures, that could" bepassed, and if you neglect the: matter, ,dep"sai£ upon:it your posterity will pay for it. introducedabULforthepreventipn^fgrassiresi. &c. Suob. a bill had been in foroe; in-^ifibori** for nine yearal - Thii opposition whicibuit^e'tji with from Provincial. Secretaries and- bt he* :hon members .of theuHouse- wai- 6UoliHi%i uaecl to opposition; as I- have beerintrquitj&| ; staggered me. ' At last; by modifying :'% aniJv •putting a permissive clause into ifctoi the«ffe6fc:. that it should not come into - force' ; u : nleetfstii§f' Provincial Council passed an Ordinance pfcoS? viding that it should be brought, into operation. • It was by .inserting 'that permiasivfm; clause .that. I got it passed ; and wilt* yo^ ' believe it that one of the arguments agaictsf^itf wa* this— that the fine was too large.- X waa? told that I was an oppressor, and that £100' was a very big fine. The bill gob to the Upper; House at last; and though I have hacUxease&U to be thankf ul • , many times for the^TTpper; House interfering toprevent the •rashness andc folly of the. Lower House, I must '-say;ls was'i aggrieved arid vexed when the bill' was thrown: out by the Legislative Council. TTherhabitof • throwing down lighted matches in- grasVis one > that ought to be punished. For . my- ipwii^ part, I. have had'' no fewer than severi'fireß'/--during the present year, and I have no'redveM^ whatever*; • I know who did dt, but lh&v&riof redreßS. ; If.thab bill had-passed, redress-rtthab?? is, repression of the offenoe— would, have jbeeno; secured. The •■ offence would have , beenv repressed, and ' the f result- '■ of its bpei'dtioai^ would have been; better; far better for 'übVC 1 But it was under a mistake that some o£>the members voted for the throwing. voufcfti of this Bill. They were told that Provincial,'" Councils had the power to pass a bill of this 4 :*" sort. It ia true they have power to- legislate* t in some matters,- but -it is- ultra vires for Provincial Council to constitute the tribunal^ ' before which this offence can bo tried. I- am.* speaking now of 'the neglect of some people -in?dropping lighted matches carelessly, 'andT' setting fire: to grass and other things;: I : spoke : a ' little" while ago 'aboiit'J the;., four mUlioh ; -loan. bill. 1 thought^ they were going on too rashly. •The^objebt^dlEf' the bill, it i« said now, is to'take a truhkiVaSi'V' 1 way throughout the; country. '• And wh = rle''6n' ! / 1 this subject, allow me to expres's^it' aa - ; mjr ( opinion that narrow gauge railways ln r this^f province will be found to be a bitter niratakeK* (Hear, hear, and cheers.) But the majorityrr' of the House voted for it, arid I am powerles^ 1 ' to prevent it. ' My reading tells mef that iriifi p level country, narrow guage railways' -oughWi not to be introduced; .. (Hear, hear .} Thiaf v ' .bill-was: passed without much discussion^' * : ;Mr Yogel was not the villaiif [ ' : ttieii*?" that, he is accounted now "byZßoiiiffr'' people. (Laughter.) It was not Hhe'n'Vsaiol^f •that; he could utter lies, but I hop^that i W< : ' :1 the sake of- New-Zealand he is nbtwhat -■Hu[V ; - i quondam admirers suppose him to be;- (Heat l^ hear.) I have been asked whether I approye^^ 1 ;of the present fencing law, and I was^bourid "t^ 4 ■'' say that I certainly did not, beciuge^'' at the" present time the Ordinance • is inbpfe&r 1 ? 1 ? ;tive. In 1869 we passed a very proper' lttw*,''" but .unfortunately constituted the JResidehfcT ; Magistrate the -tribunal for deciding dispute^."' ~' ! The moment the ■■■ Attorney-General Baw ; :this,T" ; ' he said it was beyond the powers of a Prbvin--' , cial Council to • constitute "a tribunal for the 4 ";; shearing and- deciding of disputes. ConSe-- '; .quently, if -you that your rieighboW'ri >as bound to pay half the cost of^ fencing; -\ his property and yours, you labotfred:* 1 ' under a great mistake. You were told that ithe Ordhiance was.a.violation of the law, and-Vi! ;that rib decision, could be 'given Uq^ey'it?^ . ; i There is an Aofc now passed" giving Pro ytobTaVv* Councils -power to legislate on -thb'.a iibjecl;,^ "] and I trust that this time it will' becoirie besX?'-* law.. ,1 do not know whether you 'expect nie^-^ ito cay anything about the honorarium question^ '*■ (Cries of "yes, yes," and "go on.V) . TowardaC jthe close of the session Mr Yogel moved for a select committee to inquire into the matter; I waa not put on that committee, and youWbllJ':know why; I have been oDpoaed all my lif & i to the payment of membera". For isome ye»rs< r : past I have, held my^tongue, and have not^xv pressed my ' -opinions about : it. That select;; : ; committee, by a majority of one— l think 'th«r * chairman, Mr Togel himself-^pasaed aSresdlui -^ tion to the effect that £50 should be aclcled -tbf I: the honorarium of. members of Pay-Hament.U> ; The resolution waa brought before the Kousb, and X.; think the • Government^cohsiaer&V'ie*" ; would bepaased over without taticbySßohii^ni-Ji'-^ suggested that as the members of tlio Gfli — vernment did not receive '■ any honorariumy they should stand aside, and k-t hon ->, embers ; fight it out. His Honor the Superintendent

wai with me on that occasion, and I declared that I would divide the House on the subject. We divided the House, and were beaten ; and the result is, that the amount of honorarium to each member is £150 for the session. I did my best to prevent that, because I think that if educated men are asked toßerve as members of the General Assembly, and are treated fairly and honestly by their constituents, they should give their services for nothing. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) I will not, of course, tell you that the fact of being a member of the House does not involve a certain expenditure. Apnlications come in right" and leftrtoa pretty considerable amount for this thing and that thing ; but, notwithstanding this, and the fact that they have to live for three months in the year at such a miserable place as Wellington, still I think there ought to be plenty of men at disposal, pure-minded enough to serve the people amongst whom they live without pay. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) I know that the sentiments I entertain on this question are not shared in by many hon members of the House. All I can say is, that I regret it, but I cannot do more. Perhaps you would like me to say a word jr two about the Canterbury College Bill. (Hear, hear, and loud cheers.) ' I opposed that bill in the Provincial Council. (Loud cheers.) We divided on it and were beaten. I can generally take my beating with a good grace, and I took it on that occasion. Those who were in favour of the scheme introduced a bill into the House of Representative. I tried to feel my way as to what would be the result; but you must understand that in an Assembly where there are a great many provincial functionaries, they lay a stress upon a majority of the Provincial Council which certainly in my opinion that majority does not deserve. This is an iniquitous measure. I remember the Domain a sandy desert; by means of the people's money it has been made into a garden, aadj now forsooth the people •re not t» : . have it. .A portion of ii has been taken for a College, another : portion for the Museum, another for the Hospital, and bow five acres were wanted for an educational building. lam opposed to it. I think it altogether wrong ; but what was the answer— " Was it discussed in the Provincial Council?" "Yei, it was." "How was it carried?" " Well, it was carried against me 5 they said they would have the building there." " Oh," they replied, " if the Provincial Council by a majority said it was right, of course it must be light, and we will have it there.^ (Laughter.) . Well, gentlemen, I saw it was' no ÜBe fighting on that field of battle, but I was, asked. 'by independent men elsewhere what were the merits of the case. I let them know what the merits of the case were, and we gained our end, not, however, by going olap into the battle in a place where we knew we should be licked. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) And so the building was: not put up :in the Domain. (Cheers*) I , ; only Bay:- this, that bo long as I represent anyV: , part of . : . you, either in : the Provincial Council or in the General Assembly, I shall, de my utmost to prevent any more of that garden being alienated from the purposes for which they were originally intended. (Hear hear, and cheers.) I am. afraid I ami wearying some of you, but really there is a subject of vital interest to you, and a most unsatisfactory one, about which I wish to say a word or two— (" go on,") — I mean the question of the Natives. I have always been accustomed to associate mystery with want of intellect and imbeoility. A man who knowß that he is doing right, and that he is acting in a straightforward, honest manner has no need Of mystery^ (Hear, hear, ) . The Government of the Natives is a matter of snob mystery, that if any -question is put on the order paper, the. Native Minister gets up and says,. "I should be most happy to answer the hon member's questions, but it. wonld .disclose matters whioh it is not for the , good of the. colony as : a whole that they Bhould be disclosed, and therefore I decline to answer the question." Well j to ; call it a Government of Native affairs is a misnomer. We are spending immense sums of money in the administration of this department. We have spent upon the Native race— in 1869, £81,650 12s lid; in 1870-71, £32,200 ; in 1871-72, £33,530 2s 8d ; in 1872-73, £41,351 12s 9d ; and in 1873-74, £39,212 12s 9d. Now, those sums are headed " Civil List Act " (that is one item) — " Native Schools Act," " General Appropriation Act." I have given you the totals of these sums. Well, it is most unsatisfactory. Of course anything that comes from me abeut the Natives is very liable to be treated with great weight by those who have before now declared that I have a down on the Maoris. I have no down whatever upon them. I Bhould like to see them get their rights and privileges, but I think they oftentimes receive too much consideration. If they oppose a European in a Court, they set a decree; but if a European brings a Maori into Court, if he gets a deoree, he will find it very difficult to have the decree carried into effect in some parts of the country. The whole thing is thoroughly unsatisfactory. Sir Donald M'Lean is supposed to be & oonjuror. He carries on, and is as mysterious aB all conjurors are. (Hear, hear.) To tell you the truth, I don't know anything .about the department whioh Sir Donald M'Lean presides over, it is so mysterious. I have inquired, but cannot find out. They cay, " Ob, do not believe Sir Cracroft Wilson ; he hates the Maoris." I do not hate them. I have lived amongst the Natives of other countries, and I know sufficient about them to feel convinced that when a black man becomes master, he is worse than a white master. (Hear, hear.) You should shew them that they are not to master you. (Hear, hear, and ckeers.) The other day a large estate was bought in the province of Wellington. Some of the Natives did not consent to the purchase. Some signed, and afterwards expressed their dissent. Two trials were held.. Six thousand acres were reserved out of the purchase in the first instance ; six thousand more on the Becond occasion, when the matter came before the Law Courts, and I think that when Sir Donald M'Lean was asked to go up and settle the difficulty, he gave the Natives 8000 acres more. The Superintendent of Wellington turns round and says, " It is very hard on us ; you have given away our lands, and you ought to give us some compensation." A great row went on for years, and at last it was agreed between the Premier and the. provincial authorities of Wellington, that Sir: Franois Dillon Bell should Bettle the question whether anything was due by the General Government to the province on account of these reserves which were made out of this block. Sir Francis Dillon Bell said that he would award them no money, but as the province of Wellington was in difficulties, they should have a loan of £16,000 for, 50 years, at four per cent. intereßt and one per cent, sinking fund. The Maories resisted the provincial authorities in every way. They drove them into a court of law, in which they gained their case. Still they

would not obey the law. The province asked the General Government to allow them to take possession themselves. The Native Minister said— "Oh, no; that will never do ; you will involve us in war, and we cannot allow that." They asked the General Government to put them in possession, and they Baid they could not. Aud this is what they call the Government of the Native race. I thought Wellington had been so hardly used in the matter, that I voted for this loan. A great many of my old friends did not join rae, but I know that I acted as I would others should act by me, -and I" think that if Sir Francis Dillon Bell had been appointed to arbitrate in the matter — he may have exceeded his powers — a great Government ought not to have resisted the very bare coHsideration he proposed to give. My reason for voting in this way was, that a Government r pretended to be a Government, and yet could not exercise its functions with regard to the Native race. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) No one could bring them to order, and bo the medicine man was asked to go up and "softsawder " them. The electors . of Christchurch and the Heathcote have always received me most courteously, and on this occasion you have listened to me with the utmost attention, and have treated me with consideration. Even Mr Nairn applauds when he thinks I am right — (hear, hear, from Mr Nairn) — and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for the manner in which you have listened to me. All I can cay is this, that on any future occasion on which you again wish me to address you, you have only to let me know, and I shall be with you at the time appointed, and I shall try to tell you what I know on the various subjects of public importance. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) I have endeavoured to tell you this night the whole truth. I hope you know more of the occurrences that 'have" taken place this session than before the doors of this hall were opened ; and if any of you go home an atom the wiser from anything I have said, lam fully and amply paid. (Loud and prolonged cheering.) ' Several questions were put by Messrs D. Nairn and Clephane, which were replied to by Sir Cracroft Wilson. . Mr W. Wiison moved— "That the electors of the Heatbcote district deßire to thank Sir Cracroft Wilson for the very lucid description he has afforded this meeting of the active part he has taken in the late session of the General Assembly, and, further, desire to express their continued confidence in him as their representative." . Mr Pavitt seconded the motion, which was carried unanimously. Sib Cracrost Whson briefly returned thanks, and concluded by moving a vote of thanks to the chairman, which was carried by acclamation, and the proceedings terminated.