Provincial Councial.

Star (Christchurch), Issue 745, 12 October 1870, Page 2

Provincial Councial.

' Tuesday, Ooi 11. The Speaker took the chair at 5 o'clock. The following members were present :— Messrs Beswick, Brett, Brown, Buchanan, Cowlishaw, Cox, Delamain, Dixon, Enys, Fisher, Hawkes, Hornbrook, Jollie, Kennaway, Knight, Lee, Mallock, Maskell, Mataon, Ormsby, Parker, Richardson, Sawtell, Tancred, Tosswill, L. Walker, F. H. M. Walker, Webb, Westenra, W. Williamß, J. S. Williams, Buckley, Perry, Healey, Studholme. PETITIONS. Mr Birch presented a petition from Mr Bowmaker, a contractor residing at Woodend, praying that his case with regard to the Swing Bridge, Eaiapoi, might be taken into consideration. Ho begged to move that the petition be received and read. The petition was received and read accordingly. Mr Beswick presented a petition from persons at Woodend who had their cattle slaughtered by order of the Government inNovember, 1869, and received no compensation in respect thereof. He begged to move that the petition be received and read. The petition was received an read accordingly. RESEBVEB FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES. . Mr Kichardson asked the Provincial Secretary— How much of the land ordered to be reserved for educational purposes has been, reserved ; and how much of what has been reserved has been let ? His reason for asking tha question was, that it was mooted outside that further reserves had been made, and it was important, therefore, that the Council should know how much land was actually reserved for educational purposes. Mr Jollie replied that the total amount of land reserved was 23,400 acres. Only a portion of the grants had been received from Wellington. The total amount of educational reserves let was 7671 acres. PUBLIC MUSEUM, LIBRARY, AND SCHOOL OF TECHNICAL SCIENCE. Mr Cowlishaw asked the Provincial Secretary — Whether it is the intention of the Government to introduce a measure during t'ae present session having for its object the establishment and maintenance, upon a permanent basis, of a public museum, library, >tnd a school of technical science. Mr Jollie replied that the Government would be wiiiing, if the Council wished it, to make reserves as endowments for the objects named in tue hon. member's resolution. At the same time, he thought it was a matter of doubt whether it would be advisable to make large reserves for these objects, as in all probability large reserves would be asked for other educational purposes. LYTTELTON HARBOUR. Mr Richardson asked the Provincial Secretary — "Whether the Government have derided upon any plan for the improvement of the harbour of Lyttelton ; and, if bo, whether they have any objection to lay their plan . on. the table of this House." This was a question of very great importance, but he took it l that it had already been answered by the papers which Mr Jollie bad laid on the table a few minutes before. He understood that the Government intended to obtain a plan of propose i harbour improvements, and in that case, he desired to ask if they had any cbjeo tion to lay their plan on the table of the House. Mr Jollie said that he would lay the plan on the table as soon as it was prepared. CHBISrCHURCH HOSPITAL. Mr Brown moved—" That a Select Committee be appointed to enquire into the management of the Christchurch Hospital ; Committee to consist of Messrs Hornbrook, Ormsby, L. Walker, Webb, Enys, Fisher, and the mover." He did not think it would be expected of him that he should make out what was called a " case" against the Government. He hoped the Government would not think that he was reflecting on the management of the Hospital or the course which the Govern* ment chose to adopt with regard to it, but there was a considerable amount of talk out of doors, and it was necessary, therefore, that the whole thing should be enquired into. He thought it advisable that the Hospital should, as was the case elsewhere, be treated hi a sort of school in which all the members of the medicil profession should participate, bo so long as it did not interfere with the efficient mana.ement of the Hospital. Mr Westenka seconded the motion. Mr Jolue said that- the Government bad no objection to the appointment of this committee, or of any committee to inquire into 'the msnagement of any other Government' institution, Mr Dixon thought that the Co-mcil should refuse the appointment of the. cotimittee, because he considered fiat the publication of

the pamphlet was disrespectful to his Honor the Superintendent They had only had one side of the question before them, and the Council should decline to appoint a com mittee until a case had been made out against the Government, which he did not think had yet been done. The motiou was carried on the voices; the committee to report in two weeks. THE NORTHERN RAILWAY. Mr Melville Walker moved — " Thai that portion of the Northern Railway between Kaiapoi and Rangiora be constructed first, as being more likely to meet the requirements of the settlers in the north, and more conducive to the general prosperity of the province." In moving his resolution, he begged to call the attention of hon. members to the numerously signed memorial and remonstrance that had been presented to his Honor the Superintendent on the subject. The Northern members maintained that it would be more conducive to the general prosperity of the province if that portion of the railway between Kaiapoi and Eangloia were constructed first. From calculations made, it appeared that goods shipped at Kaiapoi could be onveyed to Lyttelton at 108 per *on less than if taken by rail through Christchurch. Grain would be proportionately lower, and this was a great thing to the farmers. If a railway were commenced at Kaiapoi, and carried northwards, the settlers could then afford to bring their produce to market. At the present time, he could point out hundreds of stacks in the north which were yet unthatcbed, and farmers had no inducements to thresh their grain in the presence of low prices and bad roads T!»e settlers in the north would not complain if they had anything like good roads. Mr Jollie said it would be recollected that last session this subject was very fully discussed. The Government brought forward certain resolutions, which were agreed to without any protest unatever. It was agreed by the Council that the line should be constructed to Kangiora. The Bill authorising the construction of the line had been passed in the General Assembly about six weeks ago, and the Government were determined to proceed with the construction of the railway, and had already taken action by accepting tenders. He did not think that the hon. member for Sefton had made out a good case. If the construction of the line were commenced at Kaiapoi and carried northwards, it would entail the importation of fresh engines and rolling stock before the settlers in the north could participate in any benefits accruing from the line if constructed first of ail between Kaiapoi and Kangiora. The Council would be acting very foolishly indeed, if it departed from the resolutions that had been agreed to last session after calm and mature consideration. The Bill that had been passed in the General Assembly was for the construction of a railway from Addington station to Kangiora, and if the Council departed from the provisions of that Bill by commencing the construction of the line at Kaiapoi, the General Government might turn round and say that they would be in no way answerable for the action taken. Mr Dixon said the subject had been fully discussed last session. He was one of those who had advocated the construction of the line from Kaiapoi northwards, but the Council had decided otherwise. He did not think that it was now in the power of the Council to upset what bad been already done. Much as he desired that the line should have been commenced at Kaiapoi, still to do so now, would entail a delay of twelve months. Mr Brown strongly advocated .the construction of the line from Kaiapoi northwards, going beyond Rangiora, in order to bring the Ashley district into communication with Kaiapoi. He was not one of those who was opposed to the construction of the line between Christchurch and Kaiapoi — (hear, hear) — but it was of more importance that that portion .of the line north of Kaiapoi should be constructed first. He was sorry to have it to cay that the north was languishing for want of means of communication, and the result would be that farmers. would have to leave the northern districts, unless something were done in the way of giving them facilities for bringing their produce to market. Mr Kznnawat thought the Council was in a position to discuss the question again, and tie did not think there was any reason why it should not be again discussed. This was a new Council, and he trusted a wise one, and there was no reason why the su ! ject should not be re-opened. It could not be denied that it was of the greatest importance that that portion of the railway from Kaiapoi northwards should be constructed first of all He did not think that the Bill passed in the General Assembly prevented the Government from commencing the railway at whatever point they pleased. 'I he Provincial Secretary had stated lhat if the line were commenced at Kidapoi and constructed northwards, it would entail the importation of new rolling stock. But the gauge had not yet been decided, and that was an important point to be considered. He thought it would be more advisable to postpone the discussion on this subject until it was determined what gauge should be adopted. The question of gauge had never occurrtd to the minds of hon. members last session, and the financial aspect of the work had assumed a new character. Consequently, there was no reason why the subject should not be reconsidered. For his own part, he believed that half the produce would not be carrieJ over the line from Kaiapoi to Christchurch, as would be the case on the short line from Rangiora to Kaiapoi, because all the producing districts would participate in the facilities thus afforded for the conveyance of grain, &c. He also believed that the con struction of the line from Kangiora to ihe Kowai would also prove remunerative. There was another argument in favour of (he construction of the line from Kaiapoi n or ih wards : the harbour accommodation at I.yttelton was \>y no means sufflcif-nt at thtpnsu.t line, and ihe iine fmu Ka'ap^i tt

Hhristchurch would be of little avail until ■he necessary improvements were carried out. Let them, therefore, commence the line at Kaiapoi, and wait until they got the refund from the General Government to carry out those improvements in the harbour accommodation at Lyttelton that were so necessary to make the line from Kaiapoi to Christchurch reproductive. Under present circumstances, the line from Rangiora to Kaiapoi would certainly pay better than the line from Kaiapoi to Christchurch. Mr JT. S. Williams said that tbe hon. member for Sefton, in moving the resolution, assumed to speak on behalf of the northern members. Mr Dixon, a northern member, did not agree with Mr Walker, and he should like to hear the opinions of the hon. member for Kaiapoi (Mr Birch) and the hon. tretnlu-r for Oxford (Mr Lee) in order to ascertain whether such a degree of unanimity prevailed amongst the northern members as was assumed by the hon. member for Sefton. The mover of the resolution had referred to a remonstrance signed by settlers in tlie north, and presented to his Honor the Superintendent ; but that remonstrance came before them by a sort of sidewind. 'I ho? e who signed the remonstrance appeared to him (Mr Williams) to have a very peculiar idea of what the Superintendent really was. He took it that hon. members were there to legislate for the requirements of the province and the Superintendent, if he might u?e the expression, was nothing more than a sort of machine to sign vouchers. True, he was a powerful macliine — a sort of mitrailleur (laughter),— but still he was a machine to carry out the wishes of the Council. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the subject under discussion, he did not think that the traffic via Kaiapoi would be so great as was expected, considering ihat it had a bar harbour. He believed that the losses sustained last year through shipments at Kaiapoi would have been sufficient to pay interest on the cost of constructing the railway between Kaiapoi and Christchurch. Besides, it had been proved that people, as a rule, did not avail themselves of short lines of railway, because farmers preferred putting on their drays for a distance of four or five miles. A line between Kaiapoi and Kangiora would not be reproductive ; neither would it answer tbe requirements of Northern settlers. Ho believed it wa9 not only for the interest of the province at large, but for those of the Northern settlers themselves, that the railway should be commenced at Addington station. Mr Maskell said he looked upon this matter as one affecting the whole interests of the province. Last session, he suggested that the line should be commenced at Kaiapoi, hut his suggestion was neither taken up by the people of the North, nor by their representatives in the Council. The agitation was commenced when the whole matter was settled, and after the Bill had passed the General Assembly, and he considered that the time was long gone by when the question could be re-opened. There was every reason to expect that the General Government would assist in the construction of this line next year as well as in the extension of the railways North and South. He was convinced that the line from Kniapoi to Rangiora would be of no earthly use to the large population North of the Ashley; it might be of use to those living on the Ashley Banks. Mr Brown said it appeared that the hon. member bad very little idea of the district when he asserted that the line would be of no earthly us a to the settlers north of the Ashley. Mr Maskell said that another reason why he woul 1 not support the resolution was, that the construction of the line from Kaiapoi to Rangiora would entail, as the Provincial Secretary had pointed out, the importation of uew rolling-stock, and after all this expense was gone to, the line would be of no earthly use. If the line were carried from Kaiapoi to the Kowai, it would be of some use. He hoped that before the end of the session the Government would announce its intention of applying for a bill in the next session of tbe General Assembly to extend the line to the Kowai. Mr Birch said that his mind had for a long time been made up on the question. The northern railway was one of the great works of the province. Still he Jid not think it was the first work of the province. The first work of the province was harbour improvement. (Hear, hear). He was of opinion that those who hid s gned what was termed " the remonstrance " were very short-sighted indeed, in the view they had taken, because if their project were carried out, they could not depend upon the facilities offered for transit, that they would be enabled to deliver their goods to the ship in time. It was true that he did not think the railway from Christchurch to Kangiora would be of much use to the settlers in the north without further extension. He had an amendment to move, which, if acted on, would answer the whole purposes of the northern districts for years to come. He begged to move that all the words after the word " that " in the motion be struck out, with a view to inserting the following words: — " So soon as contracts for the Northern Railway are entered into as far as Kaiapoi, it would be more conducive to the interests of the north that a tramway via Rangiora to the Kowai be made before the railway be made between Kaiapoi and Rangiora." Mr Beswick. seconded the amendment pro forma. The Speaker ruled that the amendment could not be put, as it was a substantive resolution, and not ah amendment. The Hon. G. L. Lee said he could not vote for the resolution, as it would be a breach of faith. He considered that the railway should not be looked upon in the light of a northern question,' but as one affecting the whole province at large. He trusted that jthe line ; wquld not stop at Kaiapoi, but would be pushed on as far as Rangiora. What he wished io etc was the railway constructed all

the way from Christchurch to Rangiora, because he believed that if it were only carried as far as Kaiapoi, it would be of very little benefit to the northern districts. He could quite understand why the remonstrance was presented to his Honor the Superintendent instead of the Council, for he was certain that, worded as it was, the Council would not have received it. (Hear, hear.) Mr Savftell said he was very glad to have j the opportunity afforded him to oppose the resolution, because he looked upon the matter from a provincial nnd not a local point of view. He did not think that if the line were conslruc-ei from Kaiapoi to RangioriJ, the tiaffic would be so >great as was anticipated by some hon. members. Tha bar risks were so great, i.ud the losses lud been so heavy, tliafconp insu-anc : »rornpnny positively refused to take any moe marine risks from Kaiapoi. In conclusion, he had very great pleasure in opposing the motion. The Council then adjourned for twenty minutes. On the Council resuming, Mr Tosswill said that the mover of the resolution had entirely failed to make out a case. When it was proposed to rescind any previous resolution of the Council, it must be shown that it was the unanimous wish of the people that the previous action of the Council should be rescinded. Such, however, was not the case in this instance. He believed it would b 3 absolu'ely necessary, before any other action were taken, to hive another Act passed by the General Assembly. He believed that the Bill passed last session expressly mentioned that the line should be commenced at Addington Station. It appeared to him that the iirpument used by the hon. member for Kaiapii was the strongest that could be used against the resolution. He must s y that he thought the hon. member for Sefton had entirely failed to make out; a case. He believed it was not only for the good of the province, hut for the good of the northern settlers, that the railway should be commenced at Addington Station. Mr Fisher said he would oppose the motion. Mr Beswick said that those who said they 'ooked upon the question from a provincial point of view were very well served by the present railway system. The hon. member for Ricearton (Mr Tosswill) said that the hon. member for Sefton had entirely failed to make out a case, but he had sat down without replying to a single argument used by the mover of the resolution. The northern members were taunted with not being unanimous, but he bslieved they would have been unanimous in their views, if the subject had been brought forward at a proper time. (Hear, hear). But it was not brought forward at a proper lime. Agitation came too late — when everything had been done, and a Bill authorising the construction of the line had been passed by the General As3emb'y. He would oppose the resolution, but it must be understood that he did so, because the time had passed for reopening the subject, and because he had no desire to see the construction of the Northern Railway postponed for another twelve months at least. The time had gone by for in iking any alteration in the line, and it was undesirable to upset the action that had already been taken in the matter without very strong reasons indeed. It was for these reasons th it he opposed the motion. Mr Wynn Williams said that even if they had the power, it would be very undesirable to d' part from the provisions of the Bill for the construction of the railway from Addington station to Hangiora. It would be a very short-sighted policy indeed, to assume that the railway would stop at Kaiapoi or Rangiora. On the contrary, there was no doubt that in time it would be extended to the Kowai and form a portion of a trunk line which was to connect the provinces of the south island with each other. [Mr Williams quoted from Hansard, with a view of showing the nature of the Bill and the manner of its passing through the Upper House.] The Hon. Mr Gray had Baid in the Legislative Council that only a few persons were opposed to I ttie propose! line, while a large majority was | in favour of it. He (Mr Williams) trusted that sufficient had been shewn to the Council to induce it to adhere to the action | that had already been takea with regard to the northern railway. In reply to Mr Brown, The Speaker said thai the amendment was out of order. ' Mr Brown questioned the ruling of the Speaker. The old standing orders had not been adopted by the Council. Mr J. S. Williams said there was nothing in tho Constitution Act to necessitate ihe adoption of standing orders by a new Council. Under these circumstances, the matter rested entirely in the hands of the Speaker. Mr Cowlishaw, after referring to the Constitution Act and the point raised by Mr Brown, considered that the amendment was still before the Council. Mr Wynn Williams said that in order to put all doubts aside, he would move that the standing orders be adopted, and would have them confirmed by his Honour the Superintendent next day. The Speaker said it was a moot point whether standing orders should be adopted by every new Counc 1. Perhaps the most convenient course to adopt would be for hon. members to assume that the standing orders were in force, as the d'overnniont had intimated its intention of bringing a motion forward for their renewal, and they could then be confirmed by the Superintendent. ■ Mr Melville Walker in reply, said that between 300 and 400 settlers in the Northern distric s should be taken by the Council as a sufficient exponent of the opinions of northern settlers. He would not detain the House by any lengthy remarks. He would merely express his regret that he had not received a greater degree of support from northern members. He regretted that he had not received the support of his hon. colleague (Mr Maskell.) The reasons which the hon. member had given at public meeting* before his election were different lo

those which he had given utterance to in the course of the debate. Mr Maskell wished to explain that he had never expressed himself in favour oi making the line from Kaiapoi to Ra-giora. What he did say at public meetings was, that he was in favour of a line to the Kowui, hut not for so short a distance as from Kaiapoi to Rangiora What he said on those occasions was in perfect accord with his expressions this eveninp. Tho motion was then put, and declared to be lost on the voices. mechanics' institutes, &c. Mr 11. 11. Webb moved — That a respectful address bs presented to his Honor the Superintendent, praying him to place the sum of £50 on the estimates in aid of the funds of iach of the followiog institutions: — Colonists' Society, Lyttelton ; Akaroa Mechanics' Institute ; Timaru Mechanics' Institute ; Kaiapoi Mechanics' Institute ; Rangiora Mechanics' Institute ; Pigeon Biy Library ; Okain Bay Mechanics' institute. A considerable discussion ensued Amongst other speakers, Mr Cox suggested that if grants of the proposed nature were made, grants should also be made for the establishment of libraries in connect : on with the various district schools. Subatqutntly, Mr Webb withdrew his resolution. STANDING ORDERS. Mr Wynn Williams moved that the Standing Orders of July, 1867, be alopte 1, and be the Standing i irders of this Council. The motion was agreed to. EDUCATION ORDINANCE. Mr Kennaway said it was not his intention to move the following resolution until the motion came on for the second reading of the Education Bill : — " That, in the ojinion of the Council, it would have been more conducive to the interests of education if the Government hal obtained the opinion of tho Board of Education on the amendment (,f the Education Ordinance befo.e introducing an amended Act." Mr Wynn Williams intimated that h. would move the second reading of the Bill next evening, in order that the discussion might be commenced. THE ESTIMATES. Mr Jollies motion, " That the House resolve itself into committee to consider the estimates for the year ending September 30, 1871," was postponed until next evening, ai half-past seven o'clock. DIVERSION OF ROADS BPECIAL ORDINANCE, No. 2, 1870. Mr Jollie moved, " For leave to introduce a Bill intituled ' The Diversion of Roads Special Ordinance, No. 2, 1870." The motion was agreed to, and the Ordinance brought iu f read a first time, ordered to be printed, and read a second time next day ROADS ORDINANCE, 1869. Mr Tosswill moved, " That, in the opinion of this Couucil, it is highly desirable that n short Bill should be introduced during the present session to amend the "Koads Ordi nance, 1869." Mr Cowlishaw seconded the motion, which was agreed to. PAPERS. Mr Jollie laid the following papers on ths table :— lieport on LytteUon Harbour Works. Correspondence on ivorthern Railway. Reports of the Commissioner of Police. Correspondence on Bill to Consolidate the Laws relating to Sheep. Immigration Returns. Export Returns. The Council adjourned at 9.45 p.m. uutil 5 p.m. next day.