Plight of High-Country Sheepmen

Timaru Herald, Volume CXLVI, Issue 21323, 18 April 1939, Page 8

Plight of High-Country Sheepmen

Unique Gathering at Tekapo

Burden of Overhead Costs

In their desire to acquaint the Government with the serious position their industry was in, high-country sheepmen scoffed (It distance yesterday and travelled hundreds of miles, some of them more than 400, to meet the Minister of Agriculture

and Acting-Minister of Lands (Hon. W. Lee Martin). The gathering, which was held at Tekapo, was unique in that it was the first occasion when high-country runholders in the South Island have found it necessary to take united action in an endeavour to save the Dominion’s key industry. There were more than 200 persons present, and when the opportunity presented itself, they unanimously endorsed the case as represented to the Minister by no fewer than 18 speakers. The conference, which was organised by Mr T. D. Burnett, M.P., commenced at 11 a.m. and did not conclude until 4.30 p.m. Almost the whole of that time was taken up by speakers specially selected to represent every class of high-country, and there were very few aspects of the industry which were not traversed. The need for immediate

relief to save hundreds of sheepmen from going off their runs was forcibly stressed, remedies advanced including the freeing of the exchange rate, security of tenure, remission and reduction of rents and intensive research into land deterioration. The Minister addressed the conference in the morning and replied later to the speeches. He announced that so far as tenure was concerned, the Minister of Lands was drafting a Bill providing for a uniform tenure of 33 years with perpetual right of renewal. The Minister held out little hope of any alteration in the exchange position, but assured the gathering that the Government would face up to the problems confronting the high-country sheepmen, as it had always been their policy to stabilise the man on the land.

The gathering actually was presided over by Mr W. R. Davison, chairman of the Mackenzie County Council, but all the speakers were introduced by Mr D. C. Kidd, M.P. for Waitaki. The Minister was accompanied by several Departmental officers. Mr W. A. Bodkin, M.P. Otago Central, Mr T. D. Burnett, M.P. for Temuka, who organised the gathering, and Mr A. N. Grigg. M.P. for Mid-Canterbury, were also present.

In addition to the Minister, and Members of Parliament, the speakers included Messrs H. D. Acland, president of the New Zealand Sheepowners’ Federation, K. C. Todhunter (Rakaia), James Begg (member of the New Zealand Meat Producers’ Board, Dunedin), W. Scaife (Glendhu, Central Otago), Major J. Mackenzie (Mt. Nicholas, Wakatipu), Messrs D. W. Morrow (Montalto, Mid-Canterbury), D. McLeod (Grassmere, Cass), W. Hazlett (Burwood Station, Southland), J. Munro (Upper Waitaki), D. Burnett (Kurow), O’Malley (Mt. Pisa, Central Otago), A. J. Davey (South Canterbury Executive of the Farmers’ Union).

Visitors Welcomed

“The ultimate salvation of New Zealand rests with the man on the land, and for that reason this is a highly important gathering,” said the chairman in his introductory remarks. “For that reason the presence of the Minister is extremely gratifying and I extend to him the warmest of welcomes,” added Mr Davison. He paid a tribute to the work of Mr Burnett in arranging

the conference and expressed the opinion that there was no one more qualified in New Zealand to speak of the condition of the high country runs and the problems of runholders than Mr Burnett. Mr Kidd extended a welcome to the Minister on behalf of the Waitaki electorate. He said he had shown the Minister the Mackenzie County as far as the Ohau river and the Minister was anxious to hear the views of high country men and to discuss their problems with them. "We extend to him the heartiest of welcomes and trust that our discussions here to-day will lead to better conditions for all high country men,” he added.

UNIQUE GATHERING

LARGER SHARE OF CONTROL Mr Burnett said that he was sure the meeting was unique in the history of New Zealand, for never before had there been such a gathering of highcountry people. He did not propose to deal with the economic problems, leaving that to other speakers, but he pointed out that there were 15,600,000 acres of Crown lands let for grazing purposes in the South Island. That area had been let for 50 years, but never in his experience had there been misuse of the high country, unless it had been due to bad lease conditions. They had made progress in spite of their difficulties. In the 'eighties conditions were bad, and there were suspicion and mistrust. The chief cause of the deterioration of the land was chiefly rabbits, and when the country

was first occupied, the people were entirely ignorant of the type of grass on the country. They knew now that the brown grass was only a mother grass, but it had taken many years to find this out. Referring to the task of the Crown, Mr Burnett said that the Crown had merely acted as a rent-collecting agency. The Land Board, with the best intentions in the world, had never had a proper angle to the problems of the high countrymen. The Dominion would have to realise that if its high country was to be conserved and erosion prevented, fewer sheep would have to be carried in order to provide for spellings from sheep-grazing for periods from one to five years. That meant greatly reduced rentals and a super Board of Control, consisting largely of experienced high-country men, insisting on rigid observance of a system laid down by them. Mr Burnett concluded by saying that in short the high-country sheep industry would have to be given a large share of control and direction by experienced members of the industry. For the last five years he had been endeavouring to have an investigation into the carrying on of the high country, but these requests had been turned down. However, the Minister was present that day to inquire into conditions, and they warmly welcomed him to the Mackenzie.

MINISTER’S ADDRESS

COMMISSION LIKELY The Minister, who addressed the gathering at this stage, expressed his pleasure at being present at the gathering that day. He had had an opportunity of seeing something of the Mackenzie during the past two days. He knew something of the South Island because his parents arrived in Otago in 1862, and he was born in Oamaru and was married in Dunedin. While he knew something of the South Island, he knew nothing of hill country problems, and he did not intend to suggest or even advise. Why had he come to the conference? Simply because Mr Burnett ha.d invited him, and because the conference afforded him the chance of meeting men who had spent a lifetime in the back country, and their experience, he felt, would be of inestimable value to the Government in facing- up to the problems of the runholder. He was not going to criticise, but he would listen to all that the speakers had to say. The Minister said that land deterioration on an extensive and serious scale had long given concern in New Zealand. In 1920 the Southern Pastoral Lands Commission, after visiting much of the high-country right through the South Island, inspecting it and hearing evidence for two and a half months, presented its report. This report stated that the causes of deterioration and the ultimate depletion of grassland to be as follows:

(1) The burning of tussock, especially at the wrong season of the year. (2) Overstocking with sheep. (3 Continuous grazing for several years without attempt at improvement.

(4) Allowing rabits to become extremely numerous. (5) The tenures under which the land has been and is held and some of the conditions of such tenures. Mr Lee Martin said it could be accepted without question that side by side with diminishing returns sheep farmers had, since the earliest days of colonisation, experienced steadily rising costs. Most grazing runs were taken up in the days when, to put it crudely, “Money was dear and sweat was cheap.” Such forests as nature had provided had not been use' up, and fencing posts, battens, gates, etc., could be produced very cheaply. The land still possessed all its virginal fertility, rabbits had not yet taken their toll, noxious weeds were not the menace they are to-day. It might be said that present troubles were due largely to lack of foresight in the past, but he was afraid that discussion along

those lines would get them nowhere. It was a problem as it existed to-day that must be faced —and a complex, many-sided problem it was! The speaker said that the Minister of Lands had in preparation a Bill dealing with tenure, which it was proposed should be for 33 years, with perpetual right of renewal. He hoped that something substantial would evolve from the conference. It was no use throwing stones. The problem was a serious one, and they would have to discuss it from all angles and endeavour to arrive at a satisfactory solution.

WORST IN HISTORY LOW PRICE OF WOOL "The position of sheepowners in New Zealand is probably worse than at any time in the history of the Dominion,” said Mr Acland. Not excepting even the dark days of the depression period, as although average prices during that period were lower than at present, industrial and political conditions made it possible to reduce costs generally sufficiently to balance out on the reduced prices, at least to an extent which allowed producers to carry on production without substantial inroads into their capital. At present prospects in the industry did not hold out hope of much improvement in the economic position. The bad fattening season in many districts was resulting in lighter carcase weights, which it was estimated, would mean at least a reduction of 74 per head in value, while schedule prices this year showed lower levels than last, equal to a further drop in value of more than 1/6 per carcase. Prices for sheep at the Tekapo sale were generally accepted as being more truly representative of sheep from hill country than any other sale held in the South Island, and reports from other sales in the South Island bore out the proportion of reduction in values shown at Tekapo, and all went to show the impossible position of the hill country sheepfarmer at the present time. Mr Acland said that this season had so far realised a much lower Dominion average per lb than that received for wool from the hill country 40 years ago. With a view to showing the need for some adjustment either in costs or prices, if the hill country sheepfarmer was to continue production, he mentioned the position of a South Island sheep station for the year endin B March 31, 1935, and its position on the same date in 1938. The costs of working in 1935 left a profit of a little less than £2OOO. Costs in 1938, however, owing to the amending legislation of 1936 were increased to such an exetent that a loss of £7OO was made with total receipts approximately the same in each year. He mentioned this as showing the proportions -. position of other hill country sheepfarmers under existing conditions, and the need for some form of relief by way of reduction in costs, and also to show that prior to the amending legislation passed in 1936 it was possible to make a profit on high sheep country, with wool receipts as at present, but under existing conditions this was no longer possible. Cannot Pass Costs The speaker said that in 1936 legislation arbitrarily fixed the costs of operation at a higher level than has been justified by the price received for the product of the labour on its market overseas. He stressed the point that wool and meat must necesarily be sold on an open world market in competition with other sources of supply, and that they should not hav to face arbitrarily fixed costs because of the impossibility of ensuring t> themselves a sufficient market for export at a remunerative price. In this respect they were not so fortunate as New Zealand manufacturers who, by reason of the import restriction and other protective legislation, were able to raise wages substantially in aatlci-

pation of an agreement expected in conciliation shortly. They would be happy to increase wages in the same way as this, but unfortunately they could not pass their costs on to the world at large, as was the case with our protected industries, on their New Zealand market. He felt convinced that if a decrease in costs was not made in the industry, the result would be a further need to reduce the number of hands employed with a consequent reduction in volume and value of production.

Remedies Suggested

“Various remedies have been suggested, such as: (1) Allowing our exchange to run free to find its own level without control. (2) To lift the existing exchange rate sufficiently to restore the balance between high internal costs as at present, and low export prices. (3) Direct subsidies, such as guaranteed prices, fixed export subsidies on separate classes of produce for export, or on wages costs on the farm. (4) By giving authority to a Government Department to deal with applications for relief by sheepfarmers where this is found to be justified, in order to enable the particular property to continue in production.” said Mr Acland. “This may at first sight appear difficult of administration. but it would have the merit of ensuring that in those cases where no slackening in volume of production had occurred and where costs had outrun the market value, the farmer would be enabled to continue in business on a reasonable basis. This has been practically guaranteed by the Government to the secondary key industries. Surely sheepfarmers are entitled to claim equal consideration in view of the disastrous effect on the country as a whole, in the event of a drastic reduction in volume on production for export. This must result from a continuance of the present unbalanced position as between costs and prices in the sheepowning industry.”

Mr Acland said that the only method by which a direct subsidy could be paid was from additional taxation. This would be added to all prices for both goods and labour in the secondary industries, and other services, and passed on ultimately to the producer for export, selling in the overseas market in open competition with other sources of supply. He, of course, could pass on his increased costs no further. This was the cause of their troubles to-day. Increased taxation and costs were merely collected for the Government by retailers and others affected, who supplied the goods and services in New Zealand and they were charged against the returns of exports. This process had been overdone, and if the position was not rectified the exporting industries must contract, many producers be ruined, and severe hardship result to the great bulk of the community. “Farmers should demand equal treatment with other sections of industry, and should object in the strongest possible way to having their prices lowered by a controlled or fixed exchange in order to maintain an assured profit to producers supplying our domestic market, and a money wage standard for internal services far in excess of that which is justified by our average of export price; ’’ con..!u'.l»d Mr Acland.

“JACK OF ALL TRADES”

CONFIDENCE SEVERELY SHAKEN

“We are all agreed the object of this meeting is to discuss the problems at present facing tne backcountry runholders, and to arrive at the best methods to overcome them both from a National and individual point of view,” said Mr Todhunter. A back-country runholder had to be a “jack of all trades”—be able to do anything that turns up—shoe a half broken in horse, or get up in the middle of the night and feed the baby, but they could do it. They had to rely on themselves as they were more or less isolated, it being a necessity to meet every problem as it came along. Unlike the city dwellers they could net run off and buy what they want at a shop cr get some particular tradesmen to do the job for them. Many of them have old pioneering blood in their veins like their worthy Member, Mr T. D. Burnett, who with his parents went through all sorts of hardships and exposure in doing their part in building New Zealand. Men like this, good hardy stock, were not easily beaten, and were present to assist the Government in the backcountry problems. There were really two separate sides to be considered in most of their problems—one relating to the Crown as owner of the land and trustee of the productive value, and the other to the individual occupier as tenant. Each must help the other to conserve ths producing capacity of these lands for those who came after. If this was not done the Crown would not have much of an asset in years to come.

Mr Todhunter went on to refer to erosion, stating that ‘ocality had a nig bearing on this problem and each locality may want separate remedies. Sea level (height above), rainfall, wind, and frost all played : part. The general cause was Nature helped by pests —rabbits, deer, chamois and thar, grass grub, etc. Bad management, overstocking, burning at the wrong time of the year and in wrong places. The remedy was to get rid of the pests. Spelling the country was one of the best methods for arresting erosion and bringing it back to fertility, but there would be difficulties as a run could only be spelled in block:; which would mean carrying less stock, and the tenant would have to be compensated for this and an adjustment made in rent.

"What we propose is spelling in blocks for one to two years and fencing of blocks for this purpose, the Crown to pay cost and remit rent as required, ’ said Mr Todhunter. “Surface sowing, planting trees and Marram grass to combat wind erosion on flats and low levels. These three last remedies are really a national concern and help must be provided by the Crown. The speaker went on to say that the present method of arriving at

the value of improvements on the termination of a lease was valuation by the Government i except in cases where the run was sub-divided or taken over by the Crown). The Government took no responsibility for the payment of these improvements, this having to be paid for by the incoming tenant. But what if there was no incoming tenant. The usual procedure was to make a fresh valuation after at least three months’ time. Naturally the tendency was to make the first reductions on improvements as these did not belong to the Crown. This was not fair and they thought the value of improvements should be arrived at by two assessors, one appointed by the Crown and one by the leaseholder and in case of disagreement these assessors to appoint an umpire whose decision should be final. The value of the improvements arrived at should be paid by the Crown within three months of the termination of the lease, payment by the Crown to apply to working improvements only and not to over capitalised buildings for dwellings. A plan of all improvements should be made on the map of every run with date and cost of erection. Some consideration from a national point of view as conserving the producing capacity of the property, should be given by the Crown for what might be termed “invisible improvements” such as surface sowing, low stocking—in fact efficient management and foresight for the future, if not in goodwill then to be allowed as an improvement. Term of Lease Mr Todhunter said that in their opinion the term of the lease should be 35 years, and when transfers were refused, reasons should be given and leaseholder have the right to appeal to Court.

Dealing with control, he asked undei what Crown Department were backcountry runs to be in the future. There had been a good deal of talk about riverbeds gradually being filled up with shingle eroded from the back country, and the Public Works Department in connjunction with the river boards, had been very active in this matter and had been looking into the source of erosion, advicating tree planting and other methods of control which might eventually lead to them wanting to have control of the high country itself where the erosion started from. “We are of the opinion that control remains absolutely under the Lands Department. Scientific research as affecting back-country runs to be under the control of the Minister of Lands,” said Mr Todhunter. He said that costs in relation to prices were being dealt with in a report from the Sheepowners’ Union. At present the farming industry in most of its branches was selling its produce on a pegged exchange of 125 while it was paying for everything it had to buy (labour, goods, etc.) on about a 140/150 basis —an economic impossibility. They had to sell at 91d wool that to-day cost them 121 d to produce.

Land Board

“High country runs have special problems of their own—practical experience is required to cope with them,” said Mr Todhunter. “This being so the Land Board should have at least two representatives elected by the backcountry runholders. If possible these representatives should be active holders of Crown leases. The past and present attitude of the Land Department has n t been in the best interests of the country from a national point of view in not encouraging the tenant to improve and conserve his country as a national asset and that this question be looked nto to enable the tenant to carry out these objectives. It has been said that the attitude of the Department in the past has been that of a rent collector with little interest from a national point of view. This meeting wishes to stress the fact that they have not altered their original policy which was ‘no interference with the marketing of their products’.” If Industry Fails “The farming industry is the principal industry of the country from which we get over 90 per cent of our wealth, and under the present Government policy and economic position it is heading rapidly to bankruptcy,” continued the speaker. "Being the key industry of the country, all other industries are dependent on it, so if it fails, every industry in the country must crash with it. Does the Government realise this? Do the general public realise it? Does every man, woman and child realise they will be out of a job if this happens? We cannot think that this is the Government's policy, but we are entitled to know. At the present time there are men on the land leaving their holdings, being forced off because they cannot make ends meet and places lying idle going out of production. This must be stopped. On the other hand expensive new machinery is being introduced to clear waste land and bring it to a state to enable men to be put on it. For God’s sake let us use a little commonsense and keep land already broken in, occupied and in production before trying doubtful experiments especially as they involve finding more money to send out of the country. Why spend a lot of money bringing doubtful land into production when good land is

going out of production because a living cannot be made from it? We must have some hope for the future ami know that individual effort is not a thing of the past, that wc are not up against a dead end.” Uncertainty of Future “At present the uncertainty of the future has shaken the confidence of us all,” concluded Mr Todhunter. “Until that confidence returns we are not, going to get anywhere. A country which is dependent on the sale of its produce overseas must base its working costs for all industries and works on a scale that will allow its main or key industry to pay its way. We cannot insulate ourselves against overseas prices. Remedies suggested in this and the Sheepowner’ Union economic report will assist, and I am sure runholders are willing to give any further assistance they are able to, and it is the Government's duty to take immediate action and co-operate with the farming industry in all its branches lo put this, the key industry, back on a sound basis and save the country from disaster.”

TRYING TO ASSIST

INDUSTRY WORTH PRESERVING

"We are here to assist the Government and to try to point out our position to-day,” said Mr Begg. The idea was prevalent that a person who owned a few thousand sheep was a wealthy man. Really the industry had got into an impossible position. Wool was, in much of the high country, the only source of income. It was safe to say that all a farmer got from a fine-woolled sheep to-day would not pay the expenses of keeping that sheep. “Is this industry—the production of fine wool —worth preserving?” he asked. “I think it is.” It would be well worth the Government’s while to keep it going. Whatever the value of internal manufacturing industries, they did not provide overseas funds. If the Government could afford to give it 20 to 25 per cent., it would be doing possibly greater good than it was by helping the industries of the cities. Once wool had a free entry into almost all the countries of the world, but this privilege had now gone. Substitutes were being manufactured, but no one in the world wore a wood-pulp suit from choice—he did it from necessity. There might be a possibility that the world would recover its sanity and return to regular rational systems of trading. That, however, was not in the immediate future, and until it came the immediate difficulties of the sheep farmer had to be solved.

The Government looked to the highcountry for a certain amount of its revenue. If the country was abandoned there would be no revenue, but the costs of keeping down pests would continue. The only value of a lot of the country to-day was in the improvements and this belonged to the tenant. No sane man would face the expense of refencing and restocking the country to-day. All other industries in the Dominion were propped up by subsidies in the form of import restrictions or labour laws. However the burden of costs was distributed, they ultimately came down to two or three sections of industry. One of these was the sheep industry. At present the exchange rate was pegged against the farmer. “Is it fair that it should be pegged when costs fluctuate so rapidly?” he asked. A lot of attention had been given to direct costs, but indirect costs were a big factor in the industry. One of the indirect costs which needed adjustment was freight. A ten of mail matter could be sent to England and distributed in a thousand directions cheaper than a ton of wool could be sent to England. This was only one cost, but it was a representative one. Costs on all sides were loaded against the sheep farmer. “What we want to impress on the Minister is that the position of the fine wool industry to-day is desperate and we ask his help in solving our problems,” said Mr Begg.

WORKING COSTS EXPERIENCED MEN NEEDED Major Mackenzie said that he proposed to outline some of the highcountry problems. In the past they had been able to overcome their problems, but it seemed that they had come to a dead-end, and were in need of assistance. The working of the high-country was out of all proportion to the returns. The high-country could only be carried on by experienced men, for they had much snow to contend with. There were a few good men left, but the younger men were being attracted to the towns. They had no fixed hours in the sheep industry, in which they had to work until the job was finished if they were to save the sheep. They were handicapped by the labour market to-day and the cost of material was also a big handicap. There was a time when they could take the sheep to the markets in order to save them, but to keep the flocks going they had to devise other means of maintaining production, and it was in this direction that they needed Government assistance. It was a question whether rents should not be entirely remitted or else big reductions made. They were in full accord with the exchange being allowed to go free, for that would afford them considerable relief. They were hopeful for the future, and all they were asking for was assistance to get them over the lean times. The British spirit still prevailed, and if assistance was forthcoming now. then he was sure they would be able to pull through. Economic Problems Mr Scaife said that the farming community in every country was going through troublous times, but the most pressing problems were of an economic nature. The area he represented contained more than 3.000.000 acres, and the greater part of that was faced with not being able to carry on unless some assistance was given them. The whole fact was that they needed more

revenue to meet increasing costs, and how that was to be done was a matter for urgent consideration. They suggested that if rents were lowered and the exchange freed, they might be able to carry on. There was no need to stress the rise in costs, for the Government must be fully alive to that position, but if necessary he could supply the Minister with plenty of figures to substantiate the contention. Many problems could, he thought, be held over until the economic position improved and enabled the present occupants of Crown property to remain on their runs.

LOWER CLASS LANDS

MENACE OF RABBITS Mr Bodkin said that he intended to I deal with the problems of those who | were farming on the second and third class lands. He did not think there was one farmer present but who would admit that these lands could be farmed as well as ever if the farmers' income was sufficient to meet costs. The farmers had played a big part in the building of the country and they would continue to do so if revenue enabled them to meet their liabilities. Farmers on second and third class lands to-day were not in a position to meet overhead costs .and they would go off their lands if some assistance was not forthcoming, and if they w’ent off then it w’as doubtful if the land would ever come into production again. In addition to that exports overseas would be reduced, and unemployment would increase. They had to face realities to-day. In some parts of Central Otago the rabbits were in possession and this was due purely to the fact that the farmers had not had the money to fight the rabbits. If something was not done, some areas in the Central would become gigantic rabbit warrens. What was the position of capital invested in the land? It was divided into two sections, one improvements and the other unimproved value. If they were going to ask the second and third class land to make their contribution to the income of the country, then that land would have to be given at a peppercorn rental. It seemed to him that when overhead got to the stage that it had to-day, then it must destroy improved value. Speaking in regard to tenure, Mr Bodkin said that it represented the life-work of many of those on the second and third class lands. The reserves of the farmers on these lands were not liquid, and while they had to make their contribution to the problem they were prepared to do so, provided they were allowed to draw their reserves from the cheapest money markets and were given a decent tenure. If the farmer could not be assured of security of tenure and a goodwill in his lease, then he would be foolish to attempt to carry on. They were being asked by the financial men “what have you got to offer? What is your security W’orth and what will it realise?” The greatest service or one of the greatest the Government could give these farmers was a security which was 100 per cent, and which was truly representative of the capital and labour which had been invested by the farmers. Mr Bodkin went on to say that the farmer had to have made available the best labour, and the best labour was the most economic to the farmer. The best employment to-day for the young men the farmer needed was the Public Works Department. Here the conditions were better and wages were better. The farmer would like to pay the same wages, but he could not do so. The Government should get behind the farmer and make this labour available to him, an if they did that and

enabled him to meet his. overheads, then the second and third class lands would again make their contribution to New Zealand.

Appeal For Co-operation

Appealing for co-operation between the various research departments Mr Morrow referred to the deterioration of tussock. There had been a definite falling off in the carrying capacity throughout New Zealand. Fencing was required to prevent overstocking, but it was a great expense and as such it should be the property of the Crown. He made reference to a pest recently recognised by Lincoln College—the caterpillar, which. although it had been impoverishing the land for many years had not previously been recognised by the scientific research departments.

Mr Morrow said the caterpillar pest appeared to be travelling north. Its centre appeared to be about Cromwell. It was more noticeable on the northern faces. These were the winter faces that determined the carrying capacity of the runs. This deterioration had been going on quietly for years. Taking the place of the tussock were the weeds —brown top and sweet vernal. No help had been given the runholders to preserve the country’ which was really the asset of the Crown. Mr Morrow paid a tribute to the work of the newspapers in bringing the problem before the Government and the public generally. As a result an officer had been appointed to make investigations into the depredations of the caterpillar. Were it not for the w’ork of the newspapers in dealing with the problem, it w’as doubtful whether any steps to

investigate impoverishment by’ caterpillars would have been taken. "We hope that the officer appointed will be successful in his inquiries and that this pest will be checked without delay,” said Mr Morrow.

Figures Quoted Mr McLeod said that he had come from a district away in the backcountry where the w’ool cheque was the main source of income, and where conditions were rough. He had worked out figures of a run which would be representative of the district he was dealing with. The expenses of this run in 1931-32 were £1682 and the wages bill £977. In 1932-33 expenses w’ere £l2OO and wages £690; 1933-34. £1496, wages £851; 1934-35. £1694 and £1017; 1935-36, £2272 and £1206; 1936-37. £2734 and £1424; 1937-38, £2985 and £1631. Referring to the sale of cull ewes on the run, Mr McLeod said that in 1931-32 they were sold at 4 9 to 7 9; in 1932-33. at 3 5 to 5 6; in 1933-34 at 15/- to 20 -; in 1934-35. at 17 - to

20/-; in 1935-36 at 21 5; in 1936-37. at 24 9 and in 1937-38 at 8 6 to 17 6. Wool prices were then quoted by the speaker as follows: 1931-32, 6.67 d per lb; 1932-33, 7d; 1933-34. 12.9 d; 1934-35. 7.6 d; 1935-36. 11 9d; 1936-37. 17.0 d; and 1937-38. 9.75 d. This year, as they all knew, the price of wool had dropped considerably.

Mr McLeod went on to say that places which had to rely on their wool had the greatest difficulty in making ends meet unless the wool was sold at an average of 1 - per lb. They could not go on neglecting their places if production was to be maintained, and if they were not given a fair return, the runs would go on deteriorating. Direct costs had gone up considerably but they would not make or break the farmers, but indirect costs all came back on them, because they were the primary industry. Back-eountry men had to build up their runs to a high state and keep them there. They not only had to keep their stock up. but they had to keep the good men who mustered in the high-country. They were fine men. and their services had to be retained. If the run-holder went out. then these men would be lost to the industry and the country. Speaking for the owners of second and third class land in Southland, Mr Haziett said their problems were not quite as bad as the fine wool producers. It was up to the Sheepowners’ Union and the Minister to get together and find out whether it would be better to reduce costs or raise the exchange. As conditions were at present it would not be possible to reduce the wages of employees for their costs were too high. "For a long time those who are producing wool in the high country have been apprehensive of the financial aspects of our industry.” said Mr Munro. Any test of a business was its sale value. To-day the sale value of many runs was nil. Two runs had been offered for ballot in his district but there were no inquiries. They were grouped together and formed a very attractive holding but still there were no applications. Five years ago there would have been at least five applications for each and 20 years ago up to 10 each. Mr Munro instanced the position regarding costs on his own holding. His rent on the original lease had been £220. but this had been reduced to £l9O at the end of the first term. For the year ended June 30. 1939, his return for income tax purposes had shown a loss of £3O 45. Wages amounting to £299 19 4. farm replacements. £lO4/7/and interest £338 10/- were the prinI ciple items of expenditure. Income 1 from sheep sales was £290 and from wool £939/4 4. The total income was £1290. “The only bright spot was that i I did not have to pay any tax,” said Mr Munro. “These costs would mean nothing if they’ applied to my holding alone,” continued Mr Munro, who asked all who disagreed with him or thought that he had exaggerated to stand up. No one stood. "Perhaps I should put it in a positive way--stand up all those who find their costs have risen in sympathy with those on my holding.” The audience rose to its feet in one body. “That should impress the Minister more than all the talking and I trust he will go back to his colleagues and tell them how unanimous we are that the root of our trouble lies in high costs.” commented Mr Munro. If the price of wool had been 13d a lb in 1938, he would have been able to cover his costs. The price of wool during the past 10 years however, had been as follows:—1930. 8.55 d; 1931. 5.67 d; 1932. 5.26 d; 1933. 5.15 d; 1934. 11.07 d; 1935. 6.54 d; 1936. 9.13 d; 1937. 15.71 d; 1938. 10.04 d. It would be seen from this that costs could not be met with such an income.

Cost of Materials

Mr D. Burnett also referred to figures showing the high costs confronting the back-country men to-day. He said that fencing materials had gone up by at least 20 per cent. In North Otago one local body had loaded the ratepayers with an £BO,OOO loan, and most of that had to be met by the back-country men. He went on to say that it cost between £4 and £4 10 - to shear, fill a bale of wool and send it to the nearest market. This cost was made up of lOd for shearing, £1 for freight and the balance was insurance, commission and other charges. The average price per bale for wool this year was £l3/10/-, so that they were left with about £9 to pay transport, fencing, dipping, mustering, rabbiting, rents, rates, transport and taxation. At present it looked as though half their liabilities would be met and the other half would have to go by the board. Money and Labour Mr O’Malley’ said that the basic need of the industry was money and to get that they had to look to the production of their farms. At present returns from produce were not meeting commitments in full, and they had to look to the stock firms and banks for advances. These firms required saleable assets, but were they in the farms to-day? For the successful carrying on of the industry they had to have some goodwill and that could only be secured by security of tenure. The speaker then emphasised points brought out by other speakers, particularly in reference to labour. The efficient men were selling their skill to the best market which, at the present time, was the Public Works Department. Until they could draw this efficient labour back to the farms, they would make no headway. Money and labour were their greatest needs.

Common Problem

Speaking as the representative of the South Canterbury’ Provincial Executive of the Farmers’ Union, Mr A. J. Davey said that in the past there had not been enough co-operation between the Farmers’ Union and the Sheepowners’ Federation. While some of the problems of the high country men might be different from the problems of the down country men, the difficulties of meeting increasing costs and obtaining suitable labour were the same.

"There was never such a feeling of hopelessness and helplessness in the farming industry as there was to-day. It is common knowledge that the production of this Dominion is falling. “We see to-day the sorry spectacle of money’ being spent on the West Coast to have untried land developed in an attempt to make it productive, while the good land over here is falling off,” said Mr Davey. “Thousands of pounds are being spent there at the expense of this land ” The Minister: That is not correct. “The money is being spent on expensive machinery to develop that land while this high country goes out of production.” said Mr Davey. He assured the Minister that the Fanners’ Union stood shoulder to shoulder with him when he brought the problems of farmers before his colleagues in the Cabinet.

DIRTY CASE FAULTY SUB-DIVISION Mr Kidd said that the whole thing In a nut shell was that sheep farming to-day was an unprofitable business, and if something was not done, then the industry would go out. The industry had got into a dirty mess and they were asking the Minister to put their dirty case to the powers that be in an endeavour to see if it would come out clean. The Minister: And put it down your throat.

Mr Kidd: “No,, put it down yours.” Continuing, he said that the Commissioners of Crown Lands and the members of Land Boards had not had enough power, and many of their recommendations had been over-ridden in Wellington. After referring to the constitution of Land Boards Mr Kidd suggested that on these boards there

should be two representatives ot highcountry men and two agriculturists. He went on then to deal with the Mackenzie Country and said that if they were going to bring men in to farm this land, they must be experienced men. No matter how much money a man had, if he lacked experience he would go to the wall. Backcountry runs should go to the ballot, and the Land Board would then have a chance of selecting the right type of men. Referring to faulty sub-division the speaker said this was bearing very heavily on many farmers and he suggested that when sub-division was to be made, that the advice of experienced men should first be obtained. If these mistakes had been made in the past, then they should see to it that they were not repeated. Spelling the country would be a fine thing if it could be carried out, but in many cases this could not be done because there was no balance between the summer and winter country. The Land Act laid it down that small lessees should not have more than 5000 acres, and because of this these men could not secure more land for wintering their sheep. Under these circumstances, how could the land be spelled? The meeting W'as the most representative of sheepmen which had ever assembled ir New Zealand, and if the Minister did not go back to Wellington impressed, then it would be because he had not been listening. “I am sure he has been listening all the same,” said Mr Kidd, who added that with!:', the next three months if something was not done, then more men would go off the land than during the depression. That was an alarming position, but it was true. It was a sad state of affairs to see the key industry going on its knees to the Minister asking for help. He did not care what Government was in power, if, in a case like the present, they did not step in and give assistance, then they should not occupy the Treasury Benches. He suggested to the Government that it should reintroduce the pooling system. A drop in prices had come about which was most unfortunate, and unless they paid 20/- in the £, then they would get no protection. He understood the State Advances Department was agreeable to a pooling system, although the Lands Department was not, and the Government should see to it that this Department consented to such a system. It was for the State to safeguard their interest by introducing such a system as he had referred to.

MINISTER REPLIES

Drop In Price of Wool Government Will Face Problem The Minister, replying to the addresses, said that he had listened with great interest to all that had been said, and he congratulated all the speakers. He regretted, however, that Mr Davey had referred in the terms he did to what was taking place on the West Coast. It was not true, and what was "taking place on the West Coast was not costing the Government a penny. The statement that thousands of pounds was being spent on the Coast to bring land into production was totally untrue. Conditions over there "and on this side of the ranges were totally different. He was a member of the Farmers’ Union and had taken his share in the work of the Union, and he was sorry that such statements as those he had referred to had been made by a fellow-member of the Union.

The Minister went on to say that numerous officers of his Depaitment had come to the Conference, and he was sorry there had not been a general discussion, because these officers could have conveyed valuable information. He went on to say that he came ito Tekapo to learn of the problems of the high country men. and he had learned a good deal. The problem was not a new one. and they had been trying to meet it from as far back as 1920. In 1931 and 1936 there had been big writings-off in many cases Involving frown leases The Minister said that the seriousness of the farmer's position had for some time been realised by the Govment, and during last month a committee consisting of representatives of nine Government Departments was set

| up to report as to the form which any enquiry might take. This committee had now reported to him. but he had not yet had the opportunity of placing its recommendations before Cabinet. However, the committee had submitted a most comprehensive list of subjects for enquiry which would make a very fine order of reference for a Commission of Enquiry. All the points that he had mentioned were included, as well as many other items such as farm labour, labour-saving equipment, the question of whether certain laud should be retired from use altogether, improved farming technique, and a great many other factors which entered into the problem.

“For convenience of consideration the land requiring to be considered may be set out as follows,” said the Minister, “(a) Land which recently has not been deteriorating but which would deteriorate should there be any substantial fairly extended falling-off in the attention given to maintenance work. This comes within the scope of the present enquiry because it is contended by quite a number that on account of their present financial position many sheep farmers are being forced into a falling-off in maintenance. (b) Land which is in a process of deterioration but which still contributes materially to our production. Some of this land is to be found fairly extensively in every Province, (c) Land which was once farmed but which has deteriorated so much as to be no longer in production. This type of land occurs at various points in relatively small blocks. Some of it almost certainly should be left out of farming permanently.” He was firmly of the opinion that a large percentage should not be brought back into production.

Pastoral Lands

Speaking in regard to high country pastoral lands, the Minister said that a major farming problem of the South Island was to be found in the best utilisation of its high country pastoral lands—these represented about half the total occupied area of the South Island and included over 6,000,000 acres of Montane tussock grassland. Turning to the Canterbury foothills, Mr Lee Martin said that the relatively wet belt between the high country and the plains on which forfeiture and abandonment of farms had been common in the past, and continued. This area was in the main a natural forest belt, chiefly beech forest. The foothill belt had been variously estimated at 1,250,000 acres to 2,000,000 acres.

Official Statistics

“According to official statistics,” said the Minister, “during the eight years ended 1925 approximately 1,100,000 acres had reverted to worthless plants —fern, tea-tree, etc. It is considered that a further substantial acreage has similarly reverted since 1925 and that the sowing to grass of virgin land and the counter-attacks by way of clearing such weeds has not balanced the loss due to their inroads. This view is supported by the fact that the area in occupation and cultivation in 1937 was 407,000 acres less than in 1925. In the brief survey which I have given you of the position as it exists to-day, I have looked at the problem of land deterioration mainly from the point of view of farm husbandry or land management. There is, however, an aspect which must loom large in any consideration of the problem to-day. I refer to the way in which farm management is conditioned by economic factors. For many years it was regarded as an axiom that crossbred wool and butterfat were worth about the same amount per pound in New Zealand. Today the price of butterfat is fixed at approximately 15.88 d per pound, but the average price for crossbred wool is now only about 9Sd. The finer wools, which at one time commanded much higher prices, are now quite frequently realising even less.” Cause of Trouble The Minister went on to say that he felt that the position of the farmer to-day was due largely to the big drop in the price of wool. He did not want to be a pessimist, but he did not think they would again see the prices which had obtained a few years ago and this was due to the artificial substitutes, which were a definite menace. The economic position of many countries had forced them to find substitutes for wool, and it would take them many years to get back to wool, if they ever did.

Mr Lee Martin said that the drift from the land to other avenues of employment had been referred to, but it was not a new problem. He could go over all that had been said, but he would do the very best he could when he returned to Wellington to meet the problem as it had been presented by those present. He was suggesting to the Government that a Commission should be set up, and if that was agreed to, then the whole position could be placed before the Commission. “Don't leave it till the last minute,” said the Minister. “Work the whole thing out. We don’t want generalities, but specific cases, and you should get them ready for presentation at the right time." Mr Bennet: Who will be on the Commission? The Minister: I don’t know. Mr Bennett: If it hasn’t got a highcountry man on it, it won’t be worth a spit. The Minister agreed that it would be no good putting dairying men cn such a commission. He had suggested, even, putting some of the musterers on the Commission. He thought they could rest assured that the Government would select men who were familiar with the problem, and he also thought that the Cabinet would face up to the position. The Minister said that he had no comment to make in regard to the problem of exchange, excepting that in the light of recent statements by the Prime Minister and by the Minister of Finance during the recent kite-flying on the subject, he did not hold out much hope of any alteration of the exchange position. At the mass meeting of farmers in Timaru, the president of the New Zealand Farmers’ Union read a letter from the Prime Minister offering a guaranteed price for meat and wool, if there was any unanimity in the matter, then L would be brouf'ht about. All that was wanted to-day was the opportunity, and if given that he felt that the highest traditions of the past would be maintained. The meeting had given him plenty of ammunition and he would do his best for them. He would represent the whole problem to the Government, which, he felt sure would face up to the problem. Mr Kidd again appealed to the Minister to state what he intended to do

for the men who were faced with go

I ing off their farms. The Minister: I am only one of a Cabinet of 13, and I will not accept that responsibility. All through we have tried to stabilise the position of the man on the land and it is not our desire that one man should go off. If it can be prevented, it will. Mr Kidd: Will you introduce a pooling system? The Minister: I am not going to say that: I am only one of a Cabinet of 13. Questions Answered In reply to Mr A. N. Grigg, Mr Lee Martin said representatives of sheeprearing districts appointed by runholders would be heard before the proposed Commission. Mr Tripp, Hakataramea Valley, said that all the discussions had centred on Government leases. There were, however, other Government leases—educational leases, for instance. It was only right that the colleges and other institutions {should run their leases in sympathy with the Government leases. He asked the Minister whether he would see that other leases would be subject to the conditions of Government leases. Mr Lee Martin said he would not say that the Government should dictate to the institutions how they should conduct their leases. References he had made to 33-year leases were for Crown leases. Other leases were under the Department of Education and the conditions of them might be totally different. A questioner asked whether anything further would be done to destroy keas. Th,e Government had given a subsidy of 5/- on beaks but this had been reduced to 2/6. Numerous instances could be quoted where up to 50 sheep could be killed in a rally in a night. Why should they be protected in their breeding ground at the National Park at the Hermitage? he asked. Mr Cockayne said that there were numbers of subsidies given to farmers such as remissions in fertilizers and free carriage of lime. The total of this amounted to £400,000. The high country farmer could take advantage of none of these. Last year the expenditure at 2/6 a beak amounted to £276. That was the Government’s contribution to the high country men. He would like to see that incrased. He would be willing to make representations to the Minister to have the subsidy put back to 5/-.

"Some of these men have come up to 300 miles to put our problems before you,” said Mr Burnett. “We want to know if, supposing the use of synthetic products increases and our costs get out of hand —what are we going to do with this country of ours? If you are going to encourage us to remain on this high country to help find the money for this Social Security Scheme of yours, we want more than kind words.”

Mr Lee Martin, in reply, said that the solution was to get back to a sane basis when the artificial barriers to trade would be abolished. “What is the position regarding rents?” asked Mr Kidd. Mr Lee Martin: All Crown tenants have the right to apply to the Lands Board. Mr Kidd: What about those who have been before the Adjustment Commission? Mr Lee Martin: The work of the Commissions was out of my sphere. If they have made mistakes it is no use blaming them on to the Government. I cannot give any assurance that the work of the Commissions will be reopened. In closing the meeting Mr Burnett extended thanks to the Minister and Departmental officials for attending the conference. “I hope we have loaded him up with ammunition to take back for use in the fight we are engaged in.” The Minister thanked the delegates for presenting the case of the theepfarmers and repeated his assurance that he would do all he could to help the high country farmers. A vote of thanks was passed to Mr Davison for presiding.