SCHEME FURTHER DISCUSSED

Timaru Herald, Volume CXLIII, Issue 20896, 27 November 1937, Page 7

SCHEME FURTHER DISCUSSED

PLACING FACTS BEFORE RATEPAYERS CHAIRMAN APPEALS TO MEMBERS Various aspects of the Timaru harbour improvement scheme, which have been passed by Parliament, were discussed at a meeting of the Timaru Harbour Board yesterday. The chairman (Mr W. T. Ritchie) advised members that when the Bill passed the Loans Board, it would be necessary to place the scheme before the ratepayers, and he appealed to members to facilitate this procedure. A protracted discussion followed a statement made by Mr Ritchie, who said that since the last meeting of the Board, the Local Bills Committee had met, and Mr F. R. Flatman and officers of the Board had gone to Wellington to tender evidence. He (Mr Ritchie) could not go. and Mr Flatman had kindly deputised for him. So far as the giving of evidence was concerned, there was very little that had to be done, for the whole case had been thoroughly prepared, and had been carefully considered by the various departments concerned. There was practically nothing to be asked or questioned, and the Committee was perfectly satisfied. Complimentary remarks were passed to the Board or those responsible for the excellent way in which the case had been got up. Since then the Bill had passed the House of Representatives and the Legislative Council. The only thing ahead of them was the Loans Board, and that body would not be meeting until about the middle of December. When the Board had sanctioned the loan, the only hurdle ahead was the ratepayers. Mr Ritchie went on to say that all members of the Harbour Board had received a questionnaire from the office in regard to the action to be taken in the future They were really taking time by the forelock, and were preparing for propaganda or for the explaining of the scheme to the ratepayers with a view to the taking of the loan poll. The questionnaire concerned what steps members desired to be taken in their respective districts, and he hoped members would get together and decide what they required done, because it was not right that they should sit back and leave the ratepayers to fossick out the facts for themselves and then vote. Pretty Unanimous Mr Ritchie said that he thought that the Board was pretty unanimous regarding the loan, but there might be some who would question it, and if there were any such members, then they should be givei the opportunity to state their position. Any questions could and would be answered. He had no doubt but that any question could be answered satisfactorily, but the op-

portunity to ask such questions should be given, and he desired members to make a little effort, and let the office know what they desired done. Members should be prepared for something to be done about the middle of January. Mr A. F. Campbell: That will be in harvest time. The chairman: ‘‘l realise that, but if we don’t go on then, one may have to put it off until April, which is a long stretch.” He tho ght they would have to dismiss the objection of harvest time, for unless they did that, It would mean a big d.lay. Mr D. C. Kidd: It will be a long job going round the whole district. The chairman: We are prepared to help members if they desire help. Mr T. B. Garrick: One or two people have asked me if we are going in for the whole scheme or nothing. The chairman: The idea at the moment is the whole scheme or nothing, but that is a matter which the Board has .to decide. The Loans Board has power to say whether the whole loan or only part of it should be raised. Whether the Loans Board will impose certain conditions, I do not know. If it goes through as it is now, it will be the whole scheme or nothing. Mr Garrick: We have practically turned down the cranes in the meantime. The chairman: I know, but we will be able to get cranes at a figure. Mr Flatman: There is a difference of opinion about the cranes at the price. The chairman: It would be most uneconomic and ridiculous to buy the cranes at the quoted price. Mr Garrick: The same question is going to arise over the dredge. The chairman: Unfortunately we are not in a position to find that out at the moment. On Whose Advice? Mr W. Lindsay: On whose advice are we going to go on? The chairman said that in the first instance the scheme was submitted by the Board’s engineer, but it was practically Identical with a scheme which had been put before a Royal Commission some years ago. The Commirslon had approved of the scheme, but sug-

gested that it should be deferred on financial grounds until 1937. In addition to that, the scheme had been subjected to a searching inquiry by every department at headquarters, and had been passed by them. What more one would want he lid not know.

Mr Kidd: And it hus met with the approval of the shipping companies. The chairman: I don’t hesitate to say that it has been O.Kca just as well as if an outside engineer had been called in.

Mr Flatman: There were three members of the Marine Department present when evidence was given before the Local Bills Committee.

The chairman: I don’t think anyone need feel any qualms about this being brought forward without a thorough search. I am oerfectly happy about it. This is not a scheme purely out of the heads of laymen who know very little about it except from certain aspects. Mr Campbel l : If we can succeed tn convincing the ratepaye’s that they are not going to have to pay a higher rate as a result of the loan it will impress them very much.

The chairman: That has been shown quite definitely, for our financial table has been subjected to searching inquiry, and not one hole has been picked in it.

Mr H. M. Whatman: Supposing the loan is authorised, how long will our authority last? The chairman: I think It lasts for all time. We don’t have to raise the loan in a lump sum, but only as we require it, year by year. We simply apply for permission to raise so much in the following year. Mr Garrick: Is there any restriction on the interest we will have to pay? So far as I know, the limit is 34 per cent., plus sinking fund.

The chairman: We don’t know rhat the response will be. i know that some local bodies have had difficulty, but we are a trusted investment, and that is something. We have simply got to meet that trouble when it arises. We are really not in a position to find out exactly at the moment. We may have to pay a quarter per cent more, but it will not make a great deal of difference. Our table of inance is based on 3 £ per cent. Written (Authority Mr Lindsay. It would fortify you if you had written aproval of the , *.rt of the scheme you are going to do. At present we are only fortified by our young engineer. The chairman: Mr Lindsay, you have not grasped the idea at all. We are fortified by every Government department which has considered the scheme. Mr Lindsay: That is the matter of the loan. The chairman: And the scheme, too. Mr Lindsay: Read the authority. The chairman: I can’t, for we have not got it. The fact that it has been through Parliament is sufficient proof. Mr Lindsay: To my mind there has been too much presumed about this. We thought that when the loan went to the ratepayers separate items would be Included. You promised that this would be done, and you have not stuck to your promise. You also promised outside expert opinion on the scheme, and that you have not secured. The chairman: I am very sorry, but I do not remember ever having made such a promise. The possibility of the loan having different issues was raised, but no finality was reached. No promise was made, because it was not a case of a promise. It was for the Board to say, and the Board did not say. As far as wanting written authority is concerned, I am afraid I am not going to be put in the ludicrous position of writing an asking for it. One department might have dug in its toes and the whole scheme would have been turned down. Mr Lindsay: I think the scheme is good, but I am not an expert. Our engineer and harbourmaster think so. The chairman: And the Royal Commission thought so, too. Mr Kidd: The scheme is practically in line with the No. 1 scheme. The chairman: As far as possible. The only tag the Royal Commission put on it was that i: should be deferred until 1937. There is no good threshing this thing out now. There is the scheme and there is the Bill, and none of these questions has been put to this Board beyond academic discussions. There it is, and that is how it will be put before the ratepayers. Question of Tenders Mr Garrick asked if it was the intention of the Board to call for tenders Tor the work. The chairman: That is for the Board to decide. I think that there is a distinct possibility of the work being done by tender. Mr Garrick: That is another thing the ratepayers will ask. The chai man: In my own mind we will probably decide, 'n view of what we know, to call for tenders. Mr Garrick: I am in favour of tenders. Voices: So am I. History Referred To Mr R. S. Goodman said that if members looked up the !•’story of the

Board they would find that when the last poll was taken, ratepayers turned out to the extent of 4000 or 5000, and they approved the building of the Eastern Extension. They were asked at that time regarding the doing of the work by tender or by day labour, and it was left to the Board to decide. Tenders were called for, but it was found that the work could not be done by tender, and the Board had had to finish the work. So far as the loan

was concerned, even if the ratepayers approved it, it did not say that the Board ,would spend it for the sake of spending it. Mr Campbell: Or ’-arrow it, either. Mr Goodman said that if the money was short on one item, it could be spent on another. Thi.t had been decided by the Bill. No one wanted to do anything foolish, ’ut they wanted to spend the money for the betterment of the port. If they did not go on with the scheme, it would cost the ratepayers a great deal more in the long run. Mr Flatman agreed with Mr Garrick regarding the callin:' of tenders. He for one would not spend more on cranes than he felt they were economically worth to the port. Mr Lindsay said that he was glad that the matter of tenders had been brought up, for it was the first time this aspect had been considered. If they purchased a dredge it would mean that they would have to do the work themselves, whereas if they received a satisfactory tender, they would be able to do without a dredge. If members continued to speak as they nad spoken that day, and they had not spoken like it before, then there was every possibility of something being done.

The chairman: Well, I don’t know what I said before, but I have always felt that I was on safe ground. Mr Campbell also favoured the idea of calling for tenders. There was a firm which was prepared to tender, and if they could do the work, then the Board would have a chance of seeing whether their dredge would be of any use later on. The sum of £242.006 might stagger the ratepayers for a start, but the fact that the loan would not mean an increased rate would be a big help. He realised that something had to be done, but now he was convinced that they were going to go ahead on right lines. To his mind the scheme was a splendid one. and he hoped every member would urge the ratenavers to lt. He suggested

that it might even be possible to make a film of the proposed improvements so that people would be able more easily to grasp them. Mr Whatman: Would you suggest musical accompaniments as well? (Laughter). The chairman: I am afraid that it can’t be done until the improvements are finished. Opposed to Scheme Mr Whatman said that he had always been opposed to the scheme, and he was afraid he could not support the loan in any way. In support of his attitude he had given written evidence to the Government, and he was the only member who done so. He would take steps to place his views before the people he represented, but at the same time he would assist the Board in any way he could to have the facts placed before the ratepayers. Mr Garrick said tuat he was certain that some outside 'kill would be brought in before th s scheme was proceeded with. They were now proposing to go on with what was practically the original No.' 1 scheme. He hoped the were on right lines, but an outside engineer might alter the position. If he remembered correctly, Mr Clarke’s estimate was £84,000. The chairman: He did not take dredging into consideration. Mr Kidd asked if an outside engineer was called in, and he supported the scheme, would Mr Whatman be prepared to throw in his weight?

Mr Whatman said that Mr Lee had said that £84,000 was too much for the shifting of the North Mole, but apart from this, he considered they were not justified in spending £242,000 on the services they were going to get. If they were going to spend that amount of money, plus a probable 10 per cent, then they were not justified in placing such an unwarranted burden on the shoulders of the ratepayers. Mr D. C. Turnbull said that if they did not spend the £242,000, they would have to spend all the Interest on that amount in dredging in Caroline Bay. The chairman said he was glad that Mr Whatman and Mr Lindsay had stated where they stood, but he felt that they would not hamper the efforts of the Board. He hoped they would answer the questionnaire, and let the members of Che Board who were in favour of the scheme visit their districts and talk to their ratepayers. He went on to say that there had been talk of outside engineering opinion, but this was definitely not necessary in view of the searching investigation to which the scheme had been submitted. Whether the scheme could be done for less money was answered by the fact that the various Government departments through which the scheme had passed had not questioned the point in any way. It was no good talking about Mr Clarke’s estimate of £84,000, for that was purely for lifting the North Mole. The present scheme included this, and also extending the Parade, dredging the harbour, making a new channel, cranes, and £lO,OOO for the Eastern Extension.

Mr Kidd asked when it was proposed to take the poll. He had suggested April because the harvest and sheep work would be over by then. The chairman said that he thought they would have to put up with the difficulties of the harvest, and he had in mind the taking of the poll about the middle of February. The Borough would be taking a water loan poll about that period, and if they could work in with the Borough, it would mean a saving financially. The matter was not further discussed.