FREE SPEECH.

Timaru Herald, Volume CXXV, Issue 18636, 4 August 1930, Page 3

FREE SPEECH.

MEETING ON CAROLINE BAY. BOROUGH COUNCIL CRITICISED. ADDRESS TO UNEMPLOYED. Over two hundred persons assembled in the vicinity of the Band Rotunda, on Caroline Bay, yesterday morning, when the Rev. Clyde Carr. M.P. for Timaru, addressed a gathering of Timaru unemployed. The meeting was one for free speech, and startling statements were made concerning the manner in which members of their ranks had been interrogated by the Borough Council’s Committee, when they faced them in search of employment. Mr J. G. Leckie presided. In introducing the member, Mr Leckie said that they appreciated that the Government had been up against it as far as finance was concerned, but they recognised that Mr Carr was doing the best he could in the interests of the many unemployed in his constituency. He referred to the present financial depression from which the country was suffering, and the effect these times had on the working people. The Labour Party were endeavouring to brighten conditions for the workers, and were given such names as “Red Feds” and Bolshevists, by men such as Mr C. W. Wood, who had been “squeaking” through the Press for the past few days. These men sold American motor-cars and patronised American pictures, and were ever ready to attack the workers. He hoped that Mr Carr would enlighten them somewhat on the position, and that every endeavour would be made to find a solution to a vast problem. Mr Carr said that he did not anticipate a formal meeting that morning, but had hoped that he would have been able to have a quiet chat with the men who were out of work and find out their troubles. Iri view of the size of the gathering, however, it was considered advisable. “I don’t want the unemployed to imagine for one minute that we are exploiting them for any personal or political purposes,” said Mr Carr. “Any man who would use such methods for an advertisement is deserving of the utmost contempt. I do know, however, that last winter, the Labour members on the Christchurch City Council, when they tried to do anything in the interests of the unemployed, were accused by the Press of exploiting the unemployed in their own interests. When I see members of the unemployed I endeavour always to meet them quietly. I don’t want to be associated with demonstrations or agitations, and have people say that I have ulterior motives.” “A Delicate Position.** Mr Carr said that the position in Timaru was rather delicate, and he did not want to do anything that might have the effect of making it any the worse for the workless. They would, no doubt, have seen that there was a certain amount of divided control, and the Borough Council and local bodies were largely responsible. When he was a member of the Christchurch City Council, they endeavoured to take up the attitude that the problem was a national one, and that a lead must be given by the Government. The Government had now appealed to local bodies to tide the unemployed over the period—unemployment appeared to be pretty constant and pretty chronic—and the vvorkless now looked to the Borough Council to do something. There was now, he understood, a definite understanding in writing between the Minister of Public Works (Hon. W. B. Taverner) and the Mayor of Timaru (Mr Wm. Angland) in telegraphic form, \o the effect that the Government would provide a £2 for £1 subsidy on the work at Waimataitai Creek, for an expenditure in wages up to £7opo. It was in the agreement also that, on the strength of the subsidy, that the local body should find work for all unemployed from the commencement of the work up till December 31. “When, as representative of the district, I read that, I felt I should have something to say,” continued Mr Carr. “I want to be fair, but I must say that since I have been a member of Parliament, I have been called upon to shoulder the responsibility of making the best arrangement I could through the Public Works Department, to find work for the men who are out. I suppose I couldn’t count the number of jobs I’ve been directly responsible for in the interests of the unemployed. It wasn’t fair, I thought, when I read that, that my hands should be tied. So far as the Timaru representation is concerned, I’m afraid I can do nothing to help you, because the Government has got a direct agreement with the local body. It looks to me, as far as I am concerned, that the Council has come in at the eleventh hour to take any—l won’t say responsibility—any credit in finding work for the unemployed. I ?™ e ,. you get my P° int > as I want to be Appeal to Minister. The speaker said that he wrote to the Minister and stated that, in his opinion, the work would not be sufficient to employ all the men looking for employment. It looked to him that only twenty men could be advantageously employed at a time, as if any flood were experienced the work would be all undone. He had stated also that as far as the fluming and concrete work was concerned, this would likely be done by the Borough Council’s permanent staff. “I could not see adequate work for the unemployed of Timaru.” he said.“ I can tell you that I don't know what the Government’s attitude will be, but I received the quiet tip that my hands are not altogether tied, but that any representations I made would receive due consideration from the Minister. I got that formally, gentlemen, and if I find that Timaru is net getting adequate work, I’ll bring all I can to bear to influence the Minister.” Exploiting the Unemployed. Referring to tne work at Oldway Baths last year. Mr Carr said that the Council borrowed a concrete mixer, and the permanent staff did a good deal of the work. He supposed that the permanent staff must be ke. t working, but he did not want to see the unemployed exploited by anyone. “If the Government subsidy has been given for the relief of unemployment, it seems to me that the intention is not to get a job dene cheaply to relieve the ratepayers, but to help the unemployed, for whom it is given. (Hear.! hear). Mr Carr went on to say that he had heard that Ashbury Park was to be returfed and 27 to 23 men were to be employed to carry out this work. He did not know anything about the conditions, and if it were part of the scheme for draining the Waimataitai Creek, he was not aware of it. “I did not know that the subsidy cove, d anything else but the drainage work. Maybe this is part of the job, 'out it is a complete surprise to me that the unemployed have been given additional work, if such is the case.” The speaker said that soon after he was elected to the House, the North End Ratepayers' and Improvement Association waited on him to have the work at the creek cleaned up. He

communicated with the Minister, and recommended that the other side to Selwyn Street should also receive attention. It was here that there were Government houses. The Minister had again been approached by the speaker a few months ago, and two or three letters had been written suggesting that in view of the Government houses in the locality, the work should be extended further up-stream where the population were, and the biggest eyesore existed. The Minister, in his last reply intimated that the work would not carry on past Evans Street. “Poll Tax or Poleaxed!** Speaking in regard to the Unemployment Bill before the House, in which provision had been made for tne taxation of 30/- per head on every male over 21 years of age, Mr Carr stated that there were a number of people who would regard this as a poll tax. In his speech to the House, Mr Carr said he had pointed out the close relation that the measure had to a poll tax. History would reveal that from the time of Watt Tyler to the present Samoan question, the poll tax had been closely related to the poleaxe. "The position in Samoa is a disgrace, and I will never be satisfied till I see Colonel Steve Allen bumped out |of the Administration.” The speaker 1 mentioned that the new tax would have to be on a graduated scale, and those earning below a certain figure would have to be exempted. He said that several women and children would, no doubt, be called upon to suffer as a result of the tax, and whether they contributed or not, there should be some provision for them to receive assistance from the scheme. “I : know of one case,” he said, “where the old man is out of work, and thfe boy, who should be at school, is earning a few bob selling papers in his spare time.” There were many, however, in comfortable circumstances, who would never notice the tax. When the question of an Unemployment Board was before the House, Mr Carr said he supported the suggestion that the functions of this Committee should be to overcome the problem and provide employment, and to see that there was no unemployment in future. Until the Government organised the scheme so that all would have a share in the work and pay, they were not worthy of confidence. In his opinion, the Government should control the industries of the country to provide new avenues of employment, to absorb the present unemployment, and also create more work. The provision the Government had made for the municipality of Timaru should help consideraoly, and he hoped it would as far as the burgesses were concerned. Any unemployed out of the borough and in the speaker’s electorate were still a charge on the Government, and therefore his responsibility. “I’ll still have any amount to do to help them, and I will do my best,” he said. A “Silent Member. “If you have lately been reading the paper, and find, as you think, that your member has been silent in the House, I’d like to tell you now that such isn’t the case,” Mi- Carr continued. “I have been sending stuff to the paper here, and it has not gone in. Why, I don’t know. Please don’t judge me by what you see in the Timaru papers.” “This Skiting Business/* Mr Walton asked if it were correct that some of the permanent employees of the Timaru Borough Council were being paid on the Waimataitai job out of the sum provided by the Government for relief. Mr Carr outlined the arrangement between the Government and the Council. The Council, he said, provided the materials and one-third of' the wages, and the Government twothirds. Whether they were permanent employees of the Council or unemployed, he understood they were paid in that way and on that scale. On Government relief jobs the wages were 14/- a day for married or single men, and if the local body saw fit to reduce that scale, the subsidy was reduced accordingly. “I have heard it rumoured that single men might be reduced to 10/-, but I don't know if that is true. The Government believe that preference should be given the married men. If the local body reduces the wages to the single man, the Government subsidy must be reduced accordingly.” A voice: “What a', ut the cement?” Mr Carr: “Exactly.” Mr A. Blackwood: “I understand the permanent men are getting 15/4 a day. You represent us in Parliament, and why don’t you go out and have a look around. It’s all very fine; I know all about this skiting business.” A voice: “Mr Walton asked you a question; why don't you answer it?” Mr Carr: “I’ll put it to you, Mr Chairman, that I did answer the question. This gentleman has asked why I don’t go out and stop the Council’s employees. I am not the Mayor, or a member of the Council, nor have I any say in what the Council does, but anything I can do to influence the Minister, I will do. I can’t get into any .local squabbles. God knows I’ve done enough now. I’ve butted in and got into hot water on more than one occasion. If the Borough Council is not doing a fair thing, are you going to blame me?” Voices: “No.” Mr Carr: “As soon as I read in the paper that the job had been decided on, I communicated with the Minister and told him that in my opinion the job would not absorb the men in Timaru. I told him also that the men on Waimataitai Creek should be picked by the Labour Department, and not by the local body.” (Hear, hear). “I don’t know what else I can do. If you can tell me what I can do, I will do it.” “The Third Degree/* The chairman said that it had come to his knowledge that men going before the Council’s Committee in search of work had almost to undergo “the third degree.” “I believe it’s like a judge and jury passing sentence on a man.” In his opinion, it was sufficient evidence to the Council if a man could prove that he had a wife and family to keep, without having to answer all manner of underhand questions. “Of course,” continued the chairman, “there might be some who tell a tale. I know of two men, who, when they went before the Committee in the morning, had no children. By ' three o’clock one man had three 1 children and the other one.” (Laugh--1 ter). ! Mr Blackwood was of opinion that the questions asked were in many cases irrelevant. In his opinion, it j was a matter largely of red tape. The chairman: “Oh well, if you like to be nominated for the Council, I’ll do it, and then you will be put in, and be able to investigate the matter.” : He suggested that the facts should be assembled and a committee of unemployed could be appointed to sift the red tape question out. The position was that men were looking for work, and must get it. Mr Carr, he said, had been instrumental in procuring I jobs for men as far away as Orari ; Gorge, and they should be thankful j for what he had done. The chairman uggested that a committee should be >rmed to give the unemployed some oar" 51 ' rr when they made their demau^,. Mr B:. ckwood: “What about you being chairman?” The chairman: “I’m chairman now, but if you think you are a better man ouie up and take my place.”

Mr Blackwood: “No. But what about you being chairman?” The chairman: “No, I’m away a lot.” Mr Carr explained that it was difficult for the Labour Department to deal with the situation and to be fair to everybody. At present they were harrassed and buffetted between the unemployed and the Government. Mr McKessar, the local inspector, and Miss White, had done as well as they could to meet the unemployed and their needs, and it was up to all present to register at the office every fortnight to reveal the true position of affairs. By doing this it would back up the speaker in his appeal to the Government, who could then be acquainted with the time position. “The Borough Council seem to have come in at the eleventh hour, with a fresh policy of their own, and in order to set a continual policy and a just one for every man, the power of appointment should be vested in the Labour Department,” said Mr Carr. “I’d like to know who is responsible for this ‘third degree.’ Is it the Labour Department, or the Timaru Borough Council? I would like the Council to back me up in getting the men selected by the Labour Department. I’m not the Mayor nor a member of the Borough Council, and I’m not going to do myself and you people harm.” Referring to the cement purchase by the Borough Council, Mr Carr advised the gathering to watch the papers and see what further would come of the matter. He mentioned what he had done in regard to finding men work on the southern outfall job, and said: “I wanted to keep you men in touch with what I was doing, but the “Herald” has not been putting in what I have sent. Why, I don’t know. If the papers won’t publish stuff, I don’t know how to get it to you.” This remark was received in silence. “Thought I’d Be Hanged/* A voice: “I’ve been through that cross-examination you speak about. I might say I’ve been paying maintenance. I first went to appear before the Mayor, Chittock, Hunt and another chap I didn't know. After they were finished, I thought they were going to hang me. One asked me why my wife left me, and I replied: ‘How the h do I know/ I’ve been four times before the ‘beak,’ but this fifth time was the worst. I thought I’d be hanged anyway/ ” Mr Carr: “I’ve got no status in the matter, but any assistance I can give or bring to bear, I will certainly give.” It was unanimously decided, on the motion of Mr Ayres, that it be a recommendation to the Government that all unemployed taken on relief works be engaged through the Labour Department. Another question submitted to Mr Carr was that in the event of the present work being insufficient to absorb all the unemployed, what would be the position? The reply was that it remained to be seen what amount of labour would be employed. If it were not absorbed they would haye to hammer away at local bodies to see if another scheme could not be arranged. “When the subsidy was granted, did the Government say that no more assistance was to be asked for?” was another question. The member: “Yes. They stated that no further application was to be made up to December 31. I might say, however, that I got a quiet hint that if I made representations it was likely I would receive consideration. You are intelligent men and I will leave it to you.” A voice: “Can you tell us whether the work at Waimataitai will be continuous, or whether fresh men will go on each fortnight?” Mr Carr: “I should say it would be a fortnight about. The job has got to last till December 31.” A voice: “Well; we’ll put up a United man at next elections.” The chairman made reference to the Member’s enthusiasm in the cause of the unemployed, stating that he put a punch into his work more than any member during the past twenty-five years. He moved a hearty vote of thanks, which was seconded by Mr R. Ayres and carried by acclamation. “I don’t want to indulge in any sob stuff” said Mr Carr, “but as I go around I know that in Timaru there are many women and children suffering with the cold and other privations. If a member of Parliament does not do what he can, then he is not a man at all. If I didn’t do what I could, I have no right to be in the House. When j I don’t, well, you can kick me out.” A vote of thanks was passed also to Mr Leckie for presiding. Committee Set Up Those present formed themselves into a committee, an executive being selected as follows: Messrs J. Mathieson (chairman), A. Blackwood, G .Fernie, W. Ramsay, J. L. McAteer, R. Chute, D. Wr I ton jnr., C. Ryder, J. Cook and W. Kyle jnr. Mr Leckie said that the functions of the committee would include waiting on the Council to present rational demands. “It is no good taking the bull by the horns, or you might get tossed over the fence, or get fifty tons j of cement on your heads.” Mr Carr said he desired to thank the Ministers of the Crown for the assistance they had always given him, also the Geraldine County Council* for the work they had provided in the back country. It was to the Council’s own advantage to do this, and he wished that Levels and Mackenzie were as keen.