PERSONNEL OF COUNCIL.

Timaru Herald, Volume CXXV, Issue 18200, 26 February 1929, Page 10

PERSONNEL OF COUNCIL.

QUESTION OF NUMERICAL STRENGTH. REDUCTION PROPOSAL CARRIED By six votes to five, the Timaru Borough Council last night decided to reduce the personnel of the Council from twelve members to nine. On the requisition of three members of the Council, a special meeting to discuss the reduction proposal was called for 7.15 last evening, but at that hour five Councillors only were present. At 7.30 Councillor A. B. Foote moved that the special meeting be adjourned for ten minutes, and the ordinary business of the Council be then taken. The Deputy-Mayor (Councillor A. L. Gee), who presided in the absence of the Mayor (Mr G. J. Wallace), said that it was proposed to adjourn the discussion of the special meeting at 7.30, take the ordinary business of tho Council, and resume the debate when that was concluded, for the ! discussion of the special meeting | would take some considerable time. I Councillor P. C. Vinnell: “Is it not possible to adjourn the ordinary meeting?” Councillor T. W. Satterthwaite asked why the special meeting to discuss such an important subject had been called for 7.15, thus allowing but. fifteen minutes for discussion. Councillor Vinnell: “It is already arranged.” Councilor Foote: “I ask that that remark be withdrawn. It is quite un called for.” The Deputy-Mayor: “I think so, too.” Councillor Vinnell: “So the meeting was arranged for 7.15.” Councillor Foote: “That is not what you intended.” Councillor Vinnell: “How do you know what I meant? I will make myself clear at the right time.” Councillor Satterthwaite: “The meeting was called for 7.15, and there were only a few there." DEPUTY-MAYOR EXPLAINS. The Deputy-Mayor then said that the meeting had been called upon the requisition of three councillors, in accordance with the Standing Orders, for the purpose of considering tlio question of reducing the personnel of the Council. The Statutes provided that the change should be made by a Special Order of the Council, which should be gazetted. If, therefore, the Council desired to reduce its numbers in time for the next election, it would be necessary to settle the matter without delay, as the Special Order had to be advertised for four weeks, and then confirrv.ed at an ordinary or special meeting of the Council. It had then to be gazetted. It would, therefore, be seen that if the change was to be

effected in time for the election, it had to be done at once. It had been stated that a council just about to go out of office should not undertake such an important business, but unless It did so just, prior to the election, how could it be done without the whole Council resigning, and having another election, thereby causing considerable expense to the ratepayers? Councillor Vinnell: “Is it proper for a chairman to give his reasons on a matter which has not been formally moved?” Councillor Satterthwaite: “Are you giving a solicitor’s opinion?” The Deputy-Mayor: “I am going to read that.” He went on to say that it had also been said that the Council had not received a mandate.

Councillor Satterthwaite: “Who said that? You are discussing newspaper reports. At the last meeting you could not say anything strong enough against that sort of thing.” The Deputy-Mayor: “That’s all right.” Councillor Satterthwaite: “You are making laws to suit yourself.” Referring again to the question of a mandate, the Deputy-Mayor said that the law made no provision for the taking of a poll on the question. REDUCE TO SIX. Councillor Foote then moved: “That in exercise of the powers conferred on it by Section 14 2 of ‘The Municipal Corporations’ Act, 1920.' the Timaru Borough Council resolves by way of special order as follows: (1) Exclusive of the Mayor, the said Timaru Borough Council shall consist of six members: (2) The alteration hereby made in the number of take effect on and after May 1, 192 9, the members of the said Council shall and the Councillors to be elected in the month of May, 19 29. shall be elected in accordance with the provisions of the special order.” Speaking to his motion, Councillor Foote said that it would be noticed that the proposal was not to be hurried. It had to be passed by the Council, advertised, and then confirmed at a later meeting. At this stage, on the motion of Councillor J. R. Hart, seconded by Councillor M. Thompson, the discussion was adjourned until the ordinary business had been disposed of. At 8.45 the subject was again brought forward, and a decision was not reached until shortly after 10 o’clock. Before Councillor Foote continued his speech. Councillor Satterthwaite said that the meeting had been called for the purpose of considering the reduction in the number of Councillors. I-Ie asked the Deputy-Mayor if the proposal was in order, for the matter was so important, and so far-reach-ing that he considered the movers should have stated a definite number. The Deputy-Mayor: “My ruling is that the matter ia quite in order.” Councillor Satterthwaite: “I wish

to protest against that ruling, and I wish my protest recorded in the minutes.” PROPER CONDUCT WANTED. The Deputy-Mayor: “I will ask this now, right at the start of the meeting. Let us see if we can treat this in a decent way. Surely we can discuss it without any feeling.” Councillors: “Hear, hear.” Councillor Satterthwaite: “I hope you will do that.” The Deputy-Mayor: “There is a way of speaking, and a way of voting, too.” Councillor Satterthwaite: “Quite right.” The Deputy-Mayor: “Don’t interrupt., Councillor Satterthwaite.” Councillor Satterthwaite: “I am agreeing with you.” The Deputy-Mayor: “I don’t want to see any personalities. Let us conduct. the meeting iii the proper way, so that we will have no regrets. Councillor Foote now has the floor.”

Councillor Foote: “Thank you. I hope I will not be interrupted. I deprecate the heat that has been brought into this, and I deny that this matter was prearranged. I have my views, and I will explain them. If I lose, I wont lose any sleep, neither will I lose my temper.” Continuing, he said that the Council had had two years to see whether 13 men could do the work better than six members, and if the matter was put through now, it could be dealt with at the forthcoming election, which would save the trouble and expense of another election. The suggestion had been made that a Council of 6 or 7 was too small, and that such a proposal would throw on to Councillors the burden of a lot more work, but that was not correct. A small Council could function more quickly and more efficiently than a large one, and six councillors would waste far less time than 12 councillors were doing in attending committee meetings, and then going over the whole business again. Then again, if they reduced the number to six, they would also reduce the work of the staff and the executive officers. The work of the Borough would get more intelligent consideration from six men than it would from twelve, for the six men would realise the great responsibility which had been placed on them. It had been suggested that he had brought the matter forward because he was going out of the Council, but he liad his own opinions, and he put them forward and stuck to them. After two years’ experience, he held that six men could do the work of the Borough more efficiently than twelve men. COUNCIL OF NINE. Councillor Hart explained that his reason for signing tho requisition was to have the matter discussed. It; was | quite incorrect to say that the viole thing had been pre-arranged. ‘While he agreed with the principle of reduction, lie thought the number should be nine, and not six, as suggested by Councillor Foote, if Councillor Foote would amend his motion, he would support him. If he would not alter it, then he would move an amendment. Councillor Foote' “Move an amendment.” Councillor G. D. Virtue seconded Councillor Foote’s motion, pro forma. At this stage, the deputy-Mayor said that ho had thought it advisable to communicate with the Mayor, who was Li .Napier, on the subject, and he had received the ‘ollowing reply: “Received your message hero. I consider reduction in number of councillors would be in the interest of good government, and approve special meeting.” The deputy-Mayor also stated that three letters bearing on the matter had been received.

The secretary of the Timaru branch of the Labour Party forwarded thefollowing resolution, which was carried unanimously at a recent meeting:— “That this branch of the New Zealand Labour Party strongly protests against tho proposed reduction of the Municipal Council.” Mr 13. L. Blodorn (chairman of the Business Men’s Executive) wrote stating that the following resolution had been carried at a meeting held that morning:—“That it be a recommendation to the Council, that, in the opinion of this meeting, it would be advisable that the number of council r lor.« be reduced to nine ” The secretary of the North End Ratepayers’ Association advised that the following resolution had been carried rit a recent general meeting:— “That as it is now possible lor Councils to reduce their personnel to a limited number, that it be a recommendation from the North End Association, to the Council, that they consider the advisability of reducing their number to not more than nine ” The deputy-Mayor also said that for the information of Councillors, he had taken figures out of the Local Authorities Hand Book, showing tho size of Councils in towns of over 10,000 inhabitants. They were : —Devonport, 10,JOO. nine councillors; Gisborne, 13.310, nine councillors; Hamilton, 14.520, twelve councillors; Hastings, 10,444, nine councillors; Invercargill, 17,750, 12 councillors; Napier, 15,330, 11 councillors; Nelson, 10.360, nine councillors; New Plymouth, 14,570, eight councillors; Onchunga, 10,840, pnv councillors; Palmerston North, 18.835, nine councillors; Timaru, 15,035, 12 councillors ;and Wanganui, 24.520, 12 councillors. Councillor Thompson said that he agreed with Councillor Foote that six councillors were sufficient to run the affairs of the Borough, for the work would bo more efficiently done, and there would be less expense . The only objection he had was that the proposal was being brought forward so late in the day. A question of the sort should be discussed by the people. Jf they were going to rc-orgamse, then they should do it properly. No-one liked coming to a hasty decision. He felt certain that the people who had protested against the reduction proposal, if given time to consider it fully, would see the advantages that would

COUNCILLOR VINNELL OPPOSES. Councillor VTnnell said that ho proposed to oppose the resolution before the meeting, and like Councillor Foote, lie hoped there would be no ill feeling o\er the discussion. It was inevitable I that those who had definite views oil • any subject would not mince matters, jHe had not been a humbug in the I past, and he did not propose to be I one now. The proposal before tho i Council to reduce the number of coun- ! cillois to be elected at the forthcoming I municipal elections was a reactionary i ouo. It was instigated by a small section • ( business people, supplemented l,v a resolution from the North End Ratepayers’ and Improvement Association. ami some Councillors, who were endeavouring to deprive the electors of ) the right to determine if any change should take place on the lines indij cated by the resolution. It should be i remembered that, with the exception I of the speaker, who advocated prone i tionnl representation, no other member j of the Council had made any retoronce I at the last, municipal election to any suggested change or reduction in Iho ! numbers of councillors to be elected. 1 !• ut the business people did not want that; they desired to suppress the ■ Press and then the public would he 1 in the hands of a financial gang. They | had, as a Cornual, no mandate to in- | tnvfero with the democratic rights of . the electors in the matter, j Councillor Thompson: “The Council has a mandate ” Councillor Vinnell said that if the Council went to tho ratepayers in j three months’ time, with the present j proposal, then they would not got a I vote on it, for tho people would vote, i them out.

Tho deputy-Mayor: “That is only your opinion. Councillor Vinnell: “Yes, and I’m going to state it." Continuing, ho said that tho proposal was rather surprising, coming as it did from the selfstyled business section of tho Council, who were in a majority, and should therefore he in a position to submit •and carry through proposals more in keeping with their pretensions. It had been suggested by those who favoured tho change that the business of tho Council was analgous to a board of control in a private business, but on closer examination this was found to b© hardly correct. A board of directors was usually a small and relatively permanent body, and was not a medium of democratic expression, such as a Borough Council. They did not have to give an account of their stewardship to the public. Councillor Virtue: “They do to the shareholders, though.”

Councillor Vinnell contended that a Council consisted, not of a single business, but of a number of important undertakings, which were under the direction of various committees, who could not, if the Council was materially reduced, undertake and carry out the ever-increasing duties in a satisfactory manner. He could easily understand the view of those proposing the reduction, for they were trusting that something would happen to make things turn out all right. They could not say that Timaru had reached the stage where it would not. make any fuither progress, and the.v had no reason to believe that the suggested change would benefit Timaru. Again lie would remind the Council of the danger which lay ahead. If they were going to reduce the Council, then thev were going to rely on officialdom, and if the public had no. barrier between it and its money, then he, for one. would not stand for it. Routine work would be left to the officials. Councillors would be bossed by the officials, and the public would have no say at all. The proposal to reduce the membership of the Council to approximately the minimum would not bring them my nearer to the mil lonium. He had only to mention the proposed Citizens’ Association, which was going to provide a panacea for all the ills of society, but that had gone. It was as dead as a dodo. Probably tho next election would see the same body under another nom-de-plume, but people who had a lot of aliases really had no programme to go by. The figures quoted by the DeputyMayor were quite correct, but he wondered if the town seriously thought it was not in a position to get twelve men to give their time in the interests of the citizens. If that were the case, then he shuddered to think of the future. Councillor Vinnell referred to'Temuka, Oamaru and Geraldine, each of which were small boroughs, but with fair-sized councils, pointing out that one did not hear any talk of reducing the personnel of the councils In those places. They were public-spirited men, who were prepared to do what they could in the interests of the citizens. To take away the rights of the people would be doing a very unwise thing, and he did not think that such a change was warranted. The speaker then referred to the Riccarton Borough Council, which consisted of nine members, stating: “What are they to-day? There has been no balance sheet for three years, the Government having refused to pass the accounts. There was no Labour man on the Council, otherwise he probably would have received the blame. However, the Deputy-Mayor could probably explain better than he could.” The Deputy-Mayor, in reply to Councillor Vinnell, said that the figures he had procured were got by him in a perfectly disinterested way Councillor Vinnell: “ I accept your statement as correct.” The Deputy-Mayor: “ It is hardly fair of Councillor Vinnell to bring in the Riccarton Borough Council.” Councillor J. Hutchison said that he was dead against six councillors, but he would not bo so hard on nine. However, he did not see that nine could do as well as twelve. Six councillors helped to keep the other six on tho rails. Councillor Satterthwaite: “In the paddock.” “SIX DUDS." Councillor A. Kennedy said that he could see dozens of reasons why the

personnel of the Council should not be reduced. Councillor Foote: “ What are they?” Councillor Kennedy said that the ratepayers themselves were liable to make mistakes. They elected twelve men and then found that six of them were of no use whatever. The idea of a Borough Council was to give service to the ratepayers. If there were only six councillors standing, the chances are they would put in six duds, and the affairs of the town would go to pot. (Laughter.) Councillor Foote: “ They might put in twelve duds.” Councillor Kennedy (amidst laughter): “At least, twelve duds would be better than six duds. The time to reduce is when the ratepayers give us a mandate to do so.” Councillor Hart then moved, and the Deputy-M/.yor seconded, that the personnel of the Council be reduced to nine. Councillor Satterthwaite again protested that when the meeting was called, a definite number sh uld have been proposed. The Deputy-Mayor said that it was not necessary to state any number. Councillor Virtue explained that he had seconded Councillor Foote’s motion so as to promote discussion. He was in accord with the general principle, hut he considered that nine councillors would be better than six. The charge that they would be building up a bulwark of officialdom could not be substantiated. MOTION WITHDRAWN. Councillor Foote said that he felt that he had no option but to withdraw his motion. Councillor Virtue having consented, the motion was withdrawn. Councillor Foote said that x he whole argument that evening had not been against reduction but against the Business Men’s Committee. The opposition had endeavoured to draw a red herring, by criticising the actions of the committee, rather than discussing the matter at issue. The question of the Riccarton Borough Council had been brought in. but one swallow did not make a summer.

Councillor Innes-Jones spoke briefly in support of the motion. Councillor Satterthwaite said the Council had no mandate from the citizens, some of whom would get a surprise when they knew what was in the wind. There was an old saying that there was safety in numbers, but goodness only knew what would have happened in the last two years if there had been only six councillors. By having twelve councillors they had been been able to save the old Council, Chambers to the public. If there had been six councillors, he believed the power house would have been sold, and they might even have had a civic square, costing £17,000. However, the borough was progressing rapidly, they now had many important committees on the Council, and it would be a retrograde step to reduce the personnel of the Council. At the conclusion of the discussion the Deputy-Mayor again remarked that he regretted Councillor Vinnell’s remarks concerning the Riccarton Borough Council. His words carried a sting, and he (the speaker) felt very hurt. Councillor Vinnell’s attitude had been very unmanly. Councillor Hart’s motion was then put and carried by six votes to five, the voting being:,— For: Tho Deputy-Mayor, and Councillors Innes-Jones, Virtue, Foote, Hutchison, and Hart. Against: Councillors Vinnell, Satterthwaite, Thompson, Kennedy and Hawkey. NOTICE OF MOTION. Councillor Satterthwaite then gave notice to move at the next meeting that the resolution be rescinded. The Deputy-Mayor explained that the decision had to be confirmed at a special meeting, and there was no need for notice of motion. Councillor Satterthwaite: "I am going to move it, anyway. You c n’t go any further. You try it and see how you get on." The meeting then adjourned.