THE LICENSING PROPOSALS

Timaru Herald, Volume XIIC, Issue 14057, 15 November 1909, Page 6

THE LICENSING PROPOSALS

SOME LOCAL OPINIONS. Mr John Hole, President of the Sooth, Canterbury Licensed Victuallers' Association, and Vice-President of the N.Z.L.V.A., when waited upon for his opinion on the new licensing proposals, was not at all elated over them. They had, he said, come as a complete surprise to him. and he did not see that the Trade had much to gain by them. He had attended the annual conference of his Association in Wellington recently, and nothing had been said or heard of these proposals up to that time. It seemed, however, that Dr Findlay had since then brought the two parties together, and they had, apparently, arriyed at a compromise in order that there might be unanimity when the new licensing legislation comes before the House. He recognised that in order to bring about unanimity, concessions had to be given on both sides, but speaking personally he was just afraid that his side had given away rather too much. He did not mean by this, that he was not, prepared to abide by what had been done, but he felt that if the nolicense people sought to gain any further points when the legislation comes before the House, it would be necessary for the Trade to vigorously oppose any such attempt. The altered voting power from a three-fifths majority to 55 per cent., was a big concession to the no-license people, and he was rather surprised that his side had agreed to it. Still he recognised that the no-license people had a big stake in the country, and that their views were entitled to every consideration. As regards the reduction issue, he was pleased to see that this is to be eliminated, for it would simplify matters very greatly; and in any case, he thought reduction was hardly a fair thing as it meant taking one man's livelihood from him to give a. better one to another man. The only advantage to the Trade in the new proposals, so far as he could see without having given the matter much thought, lay in the lengthened period (five years) proposed to be given for the closing of the houses in the event of Dominion prohibition being carried. As a matter of equity five years was not too long. If would be a serious business to tno Hcensees if they lost their means of they would require some S to- dispose* of their stocks and property. If they were not allowed f fevTyears many of them, in ad<hforced to sacrifice then- property, lo 5£SJ5r£S? iko be a serious thing, and fie tuu no\ know how it would be made tip, but it must be by an increase of taxation in some form, direct or indirect. The proposals to allow two v years instead of aTmonths, in the event of nolicense being carried in any one distrirtTwas *fair one. Six months was altogether too little. Mr Hole saKl it had always struck him as an anomally that while there was machinery whereby licenses could be taken away, there was no machinery for restoring them in the case of hotels winch had lost their licenses as the result of an alteration in the electoral boundaries and not by the vote of the people. Thev had a case in point at Geraldine. where the hotels had been closed

through an alteration in the electoral boundaries which brought them into the no-iicense district of Ashburton._ In. the Waitaki electorate an alteration in the electoral boundaries had included some hotels which had previously been in the no-liccnso district of Oamaru. Waitaki was a licensed district, vet the hotels which had been closed when they were in the Oamaru district, could not he re-oponcd when thev came into the Waitaki district. To "be fair, the thine should cut both wavs. If hotels were to lose their licenses because the district they were in" was joined to a no-license district. then hotels in a no-licensed area .should be re-opened. He thought that the new legislation should provide for the restoration of licenses in such a case as this. In conclusion, Mr Hole said he hoped, if the new proposals should become law, that they would be the means of settling the licensing question for a good manv vears to come. 1 ;Mr. John "Withell, of Otipua, President of the Timaru No-License League, when asked for an expression of opinion on the new proposals. said that on the whole he was pleased with them, hut he thought that five years was too long a period to give the licen- ; sees in which to close down, once Dominion prohibition had b«"n carried. He thought two years should he ample. L As regards the time -(two years) pro- ' Tv.sed to be eivc'p f«r c-Wincr down in the event of prohibition being <-nrri"d in any particular district, lie thoiitrht this * was also too lone a period of grace. In the pn s t. six months had proved ample, and hj" saw no reason for extending it. Mr Withell said he onite agreed with the proposal to' eliminate the reduction issue, for he believed that it had always complicated matters at the poll. It was far better to have a straight-out issue. He would like to see a provision in the new legislation, providing that in any district where a bare majority of votes was cast for no-license, it should count for a reduction of 25 per cent, of the number of houses in that district. With regard to what had been said about consulting the people before entering into this agreement, he did not think there was much in that. The agreement had been arrived at between the recognised leaders of each side, and he thought that what they had done would he endorsed by the majority of the people, with perhaps, some little amendments which could be made when the matter comes up for reconsideration in Parliament. So far as the loss of revrnue was concerned, (in the event of the licenses being taken away) he did not apprehend any difficulty. No-license would be followed by a big saving in the prisons and police departments, and he expected that there would also" be a substantial diminution in charitable aid. In addition to these savings, it would be a comparatively easy matter to raise a sum equivalent to that annually contributed through the liquor trade.

Asked for his opinion on the subject, the Rev. T. Stinson said, that on the whole he was pleased with the new proposals, on the principle that half a loaf is better than no bread. Ho was particularly pleased with the proposal to reduce the handicap in the matter of the majority required to carry no license, but he thought five years was too long a time to allow in which to close nn the -licensed houses in the event of Dominion no-license being carried. Our Parliament was elected triennially, and if it could carry all its

oilier legislation into effort within thrco years, lie failed to see why it should take five years to carry no-license into effect. They might have this position arising: that a. Parliament would enact that the licensed houses should close, and yet that legislation wotld not he given effect to within the Hie time of the Parliament which enacted it. He agreed that some time should bo given for things to adjust themselves after the carrying of no-license, but three years should be ample. Five years was far too long a period to delay the will of the people. Then in regard to local option he considered that the two years proposed as the time in which to give effect to no license in the event of it being carried in any one district, was also too long a period. The six months allowed under the existing law had been found to work well, and there should be no departure from it. To extend it to two years would be a retrograde step and they did not want any retro-j gression in connection with the movement. He was a bare majority advocate himself, and always had been, but there seemed to be no immediate prospect of getting this, and so be would be pleased to accept _ the proposed reduction in the majority required. He was sorry that the reduction vote had been eliminated, as it was always a sort of guarantee that licensees would make some effort to ] conduct their houses reasonably well, j knowing that if they did not do so the worst conducted houses would be the first to go. Asked if he did not think that the people should have been consulted before coming to such an agreement as had been outlined, Mr Stinson said that the agreement had been arrived at by the .accredited representatives of both parties, and he did not see what more could have been done. The proposals were not law; they had to be threshed out in the House, and the people would be consulted before any new legislation was placed on the Statute Book, through their representatives in the House The hands of the M.P's. were in no "way tied to the new proposals, and he took it that when the latter came to be discussed in the House, the representatives of the people would act according as their constiTHE COMPROMISE. The delegates who effected the compromise on the licensing question were:—For the Trade-.—Messrs Martin Kennedy (chairman of the Brewers' Association and managing director of Staples and Company, Ltd.), Mr Leo. Mvers (Ehrenfried and Co., Ltd., Auckland), Mr 0. Nicholson end Mr Davis, jun. (Moss, Davis, and Companv's Captain Cook Brewery), M,- Mowbrav (Great Northern Brewirv), Mr Greonslade (Speight and Co., Ltd.', Dunedin), Mr Gibbons (Wanganui). and two representatives of the Licensed Victuallers' Association, one 01 whom was Mr Palmer, of Auckland The No-License party was represented by three officers of the New Zealand Alliance—Mr Wesley Spragg (Auckland) and the Revs. A. Dewdney aiul J Dawson (Wellington).