NATIVE LANDS.

Timaru Herald, Volume XIC, Issue 13447, 20 November 1907, Page 6

NATIVE LANDS.

THE SETTLEMENT BILL

A FIRST INSTALMENT.

per Press Association.

WELLINGTON, November 19. In the House of Representatives this afternoon, the Hon. Mr Carroll, in mcvino- the second -reading of the TSatrve Land Settlement. Bill, said ihat the area of land investigated by the Native Commksion consisted of 656,737 acres, and the Commission recommended that, it be disposed of as follows:—(a) by sale,. 66,025 acres; (b) by lease, 280,737 acres; and for Maoii occupation, 209,801 acres, under various tenures. The question arose as to whether the Bill should apply to the land alreadv reported on or made to applv to areas to be reported on during the next- 12 months. In view of the demand for land for settlement. he thought an unbiassed and disrnter-estea mind° would concede that the operations of the Eill should apply not merely to areas alreadv reported on, but to areas to be reported on. In consequence of tne great demand for-, land and toe 'amount of tana unsettled in the King Country, it tes essential that this Bill should pass ana everv delav meant a setting back ot tae question of esttkment of native land. *ie meed that if members studied .he proposals of the Bill they must agree —t no harm could come from placing th. measure on the statute book. On tM other hand it would be of immense good to the country. Clause 3 "the vesting of native lands in Maori Land Boaros, was he agreed perhaps the most important one in the Bill, and that disposed;! there was. he said, no reason why ukBB should not be speedily passed especiallv as though members differed m Snor "points they agreed, on the principal points Referring to the late day cf introducing the Bill, lie contended that Sere wfs no subject which had' occupied so much time and at" en lion of member, as the proposals contained in the Bill Sough fhifwas only an a Dolicv it necessarily curtai.ed the r-n*. KImW criticism, but as ; a policy !a» dowa by the House it would be lor .he l"r positioa to that of E««^ ™: ™* r^toTSt^t"'^! point of view oi y vesting b« most advantageous. I» t\„* « under the ordinary land laws She couTrv and\ deal wti rtwrabv the land becoming conlands without expense. tfete part 2 provision made f or s ting lark apart for occupation by ]S.aons Sd under the same section the Board actS aaarents for Maori owners. The Bill SlTdSFwith land that the common had dealt with. It was divided into {toe sections-land for public sale publiclease and Maori occupation, and maSinerTwas provided for these purposes preset it-as confined to an are. of gn6 731 acres, but in twelve months time include a. million or a million Lid a half acres. For that reason he urged that it was not in the, Merest of Element to limit the ° W Mn * °* ™ e Bill to the present area. He hoped members would List, to place the measure on {he statute book as a preliminary to -. more comprehensive measure tluu wouiu. be brought down next session. Mr Hemes thought it was a very wrong trinT for anv Government to appoint as members of "a Commi.ssion a member of ifce Jsdiciary Bench or a member of Parliament. In regard to placing a Justice on the Commission it was against tne usual practice and the same, applied ,o a member of the House. The member for the Eastern Maori district held certain views as expressed in the House which were well-known to the* other members of the House. That was a reason why a certain opposition might be 'taken to the Bill. He objected to som? of the provisions which relegated to the. Bowl the function of savinsr how land should be disposed of without th;- natives having any sav in tit* matter. For all intents and purposes the native owner might be in a lunatic .-u-vlnm. He stromrly objected to the- policy of keeping the natives in a state of tutelage. No one in the dominion desired free trade in native land. He was one of those who de-.iied to educate the natives np to the standard of Europeans so that thev could farmtheir own lands and manage their own

businesses. He urged,that a policy should be adopted of enabling the- pakeha, and Maori to meet face to face to transact business. Such a policy was fraught -with good for the country. Every effort should hi made to individualise native lands as rfar as possible. He urged that the operations cf the Bill should be confined to the area of hind already reported on, and if., this were done he was quite prepared to give the measure a fair trial. He pointed out that everything in the Bill was subject to tie approval of the Native Minister. ■ He had no objection to Mr Carroll, but it was recognised that the Native Department was very slow in moving. He urged that great discrimination had to be exercised in appointing the board, as the members would require great knowledge of land values and greatknowledge of law. Mr Ngata said that he claimed the rightas a member of the House to vote in. committee on the clauses dealing with the ultimate disposal .of lond. The. Commission had recommended 66,CC0 acres to be disposed of under sale and 208,000 under lease. The House might say the Commission was biased but with the- exception of a block of land in the King Country the land recommended for sale and lease was in. accordance with the ownem' views. The Commission would have % been able to have considered almost the whole of the native lands but for the illness of the Chief Justice. The Maori ideal of land tenure was against the whole of the legislation from 19C0 onwards. The Maori wanted to be left alone and to have the light to unrestricted freedom in deading with Europeans. Since 1865 the Maori had been having a tiy to- disentangle himself from his fellows and individualise his land and adopt the same methods as the pakeha. Would the pakeha wait until the IvTaori had placed himself on t-h-s same plane as the pakeha? The natives had been driven into a, corner and it was not right to say that the pakeha should take what he wanted and leave the Maori the crumbs. He was oppcaed to the Bill when it first came down, but the Maori members- had been met by the Government, and the Bill amended in committee.

The House adjourned at 5.30 p.m., and resumed at- 7.30 p.m. Mr Ngata, continuing, said that if the Maori proved that ha could farm his land then in 40 or 50 years there would be more need of reserving land far Maoris. On tliese grounds Maori members were opposed to the leasing of lands for a longer period than 50 years. Facilities had been given Europeans to go on the land, and he urged that similar facilities be given to the Maoris. This Bill for the firsttime initiated facilities in this direction for Maoris. . He was one of those optimists who thought the Maoris were callable of becoming farmers and instances of the Maoris adaptability for farming were numerous. In the* Bay of Plenty and other districts' there were cases where the natives had not had the advantage of assistance from the Government, but had succeeded in making headway as agriculturists and sheep-farmers. Mr Massey said that on reading the Bill, which he had not had an opportunity of doing until to-day, he tliouglit it showed that good work had been done by the Native Affairs Committee. Referring to the Native Land Commission, he fitiongly objected to placing a Supreme Court Judge and a member of the House on the Commission. He understood that the Commission was to report as to what land was available for European settlement and what should be set apart for the Maoris. The Commission reported that some. 66,000 acres should be open for sale and some 266,000 for leasehold, but the- Bill had net followed the recommendations of the Commission, but set apart half the area for leasehold occupation and half for freehold. Not 1 per cent, of the population understood the Bill and not 1 per cent.fof the natives would accept the Bill. Whilst they could lead the natives they could not be coerced. He protested against legislation of this nature being brought down so late in the session, and urged that it should be discussed during the recess so that people who had no knowledge of the provisions of the Bill could know what it meant. It was no use tinkering with the native land laws; it was tinkering with an old machine that should be thrown on the scrap heap and replaced by a new one.

The Premier said he desired to ask native members to reconsider some of tjie clauses inserted by the native affairs committee as in his opinion they were so ruinous that they would altogether alter the proposals set forth in the Bill before it went before the committee. He combatted the objections of Mr Massay and Mr Herriei? in regard to the personnel of the native commission and instanced the Hawkes Bay alienation the commission on which was consisted of a Supreme CourtJudge, a Native Court Judge, and two native assessors. Sir William Russell and other members of the House had been members of a royal commission. The provisions of the: Bill had been before the country for 12 months. There had been demands for opening of lands in the. north which blocked settlement, and yet in the uativ-i afi'uirs committee Mr Herries had opposed the principle of the Bill, and Jmd even supported the suggestion that the Bill .'.hould not 'be allowed to proceed this session notwithstanding that the Native Minister had intimated that an area of over one million acre*; could be unlocked under this Bill, Was ft not bet-

ter in the interests, of the country and in view of the failures that had taken place in the past to legislate on.the basis of reports of the Royal- Commission and make a departure on well-defined lines. A long discussion followed. Mr Kaihau urged postponement till next evasion, and characterised the Bill as. a murderous one, and if.passed the House would be so full of petitions from. Maoris that members would not be able to get into it. He moved that the Bill be postponed till nexr. session. Mr. Jennings 'also urged postponement of the Bill. Mr Hogg urged delay awl Mr Eraser, Mr Sym«>? and Mr Davey, supported him.

The Premier replying said the Government intended to pass the measure. He was not going to have it said that he was-putting the measure through: in the ■early hours of the morning and if necessary would continue the scission'for. another week. Mr Massey said he did not want to postpone the Bill. He was-prepared, to assist, to improve it in committee, as he desired to see- native lands settled. Mr Kaihau's amendment was lost on the voices.

At 1.20 a.m.. Mr Carroll rose to reply. (Left sitting, at 2 a.m. )