EXTRACTS FROM 'HANSARD.'

Thames Advertiser, Volume IX, Issue 2437, 6 October 1876, Page 3

EXTRACTS FROM 'HANSARD.'

MB. HOWE'S CHALLENGE TO SIB : . GEOEGE GREY. On the question of Ministers' lie-election, Sir George Grey said:-Sir, two or three statements have been made to-night from the Ministerial benches which I think ought not to be allowed to go forth. In the first place, the Minister of Justice said,;in the most authoritative tone,, that this colony consented to accept Abolition, Now, I deny positively that such was the case. I say this, in reference to the province of Auckland, that I believe that, had the majority of the constituencies known that it was the intention of the House to support the Abolition policy, they would have sent up no mombers at all. Mr E owe.—No.

Sir Geobge Gee?.—Tho honorable momber for the Thames says, -"No," Well, that honorable gentleman has ccmsistently voted throughout the session to deprive the inhabitants of tho Thames of their lands, and in this caso ho is expressing himself altogether in opposition to tho wishes of his constituents. It is undoubtedly the fact that the majority of tho members sent from tho province of Auckland aro not in favour of Abolition. That cannot be contradicted. Tho members who are so opposed to Abolition are the representatives of the largest constituenoes. Now, air, I say that tho people of Auckland, and, I believe, the people of Otago, will never submit that a majority of members made up of small constituen-cies-such, for instance, as the threo members for Taranaki, and the three members for HawkoV Bay, members who represent but a very small portion of the population of this colony compared wilh others—they would never submit, I say, that those honorable gentlemen should vote away tho liberties of either Auckland or Otago. I say, let the majority rule, a majority of tho whole colony—not the majority returning two mombers from the Upper Waikato-one of them to carry out tho Piako-Waikato transaction, and to secure lands of which we can get no account lying between Piako and the Thames, and the other to represent tho interests of Canterbury, and not those of Waipa. Small populations of that kind are not the majority of tho country. I say, truly let the majority rule; truly go to the people of the country in the manner I have asked; and I will, bow to thoir decision, and do my very utmost to make it succcssful. But I will nover consent to bow to a majority obtained from such small constituencies as I speak of, or to allow 70,000 people of tho province of Auckland to bo deprived of their privileges by those men who in truth pursue personal objects. As their chosen representative, 1 will rosisfc it to the utmost. I 'believe that what we ; shall.do in the. North will be done in the South. And I bolieve that the men bent upon these evil actions will hear things from the North that will trouble them, and that they will hear things from the South that will trouble them; snd at last they will be overtaken by that punishment which they deservo. And I live in the hope that I myself shall boar a part in bringing tho Courts of tho country some transactions in which they have been engaged, I pledge myself to do my utmost to do it, and I believe that the majority will truly be upon my side, and the excellent precept laid down bv my honorable' friend the member for Akaros, will bo carricd out. The majority of New Zealand shall yet rule in this country and in this House, under a fair and impartial system of representation. With the hope of attaining that object I will do my very utmost to support the motion of the honorable member for Bruce.

Mr. Howe.—My honorable colleague the member for the Thames has made some allusion to me during his speech. The honourable member for Geraldine laughs. He has laughed a' good many times this session, but not to much purpose.- My colleague said, that in ; this' House I have constantly voted-agains# the interests of those who sent me here, especially on the land question. I say that is not true. I say it is the contrary of what is true—it is tho very opposite to it. I venturo to affirm that it' the honorablejmember had laboured as assiduously, as persistently, as continually, and as honestly as I have done with reference to land for my constituency, he would have occupied a much better position in this House and in the estimation of his constituents at the present day. I have, no objection to go to my constituents, with the honorable member to-morrow, to appeal to them, and take their decision as to who has laboured most constantly,; most consistently, most thoroughly in their interests; and I will abide by their decision. The honorable gentleman has talked, a great deal about appealing to constituents, and I tell him I shall, be prepared (o-monw to resign .my posi-; tion in this House, and, if lie will do so. also, let us both go back to our. constituents and see. who occupies the highest position in their estimation. Let the honorable gentleman accept my challenge, and I will walk out of the House immediately, and place my resignation in the hands of Mr Speaker tomorrow, and wo will then go back and see who will obtain a majority of rotes in our constituency. Amongst my own people-the peoplo with whom I have lived and laboured— and who know me best, I obtainod a majority over my honorable friend at tho last election. I say that tho peoplo in the out-districts know me better to-day than they did then, and I venturo to affirm that I shall get a majority over him tomorrow, with all his eloquence and with all his constitutional knowledge. I shall meet him there when this session is over, and then wo shall see if I do not stand as. high us ho does and a great deal higher. He has built up a pedestal on which ho has placed himself, but I am afraid it.hasbeen built bottom upwards, and when-ho gets back to the Thames it will tumble all to pieces. I have had a eommunioa tion from my constituents to-day, in which are contained opinious that are quite in accordance, with tho course 1 have pursued since I have boon in this House. As I hare already said,! am not afraid fto go back with tho honorablo gentlemen by. the -next steamer,.andJet us have an emphatic decision upon the matter. I havo laboured in the intorests : of my constituents and done the very best I could for them, and I intend to do the (jame to (he ond'of tho session, no matter what tho honorablo gentleman may do, and no mattor what his right-hand friend tho honorable member for Auckland City East may say. I shall continue to pursue tho course I havo taken since I havo been hero, and they will not frighten me out of it. I know that tho obtaining o land for my constituency is tho first and foremost question that ocpupies their attention. I have endeavoured to bring that about; and 1 believe that tho stops I havo taken, in conjunction with what has been done in another difcclion, will result iu succoss. I feci sut'e, also, that when 1 go back to tho Thames I shallget (he continued confidence of my, oonstitu>

ents. I should not have _ referred to this matter if my bonorablo friend had not referred tome, nud I tell him I am not afraid of all he or tho honorable member for Auckland Oity East can say or do. And now, with respect to the question at present under discussion—namely,' as to Ministers going back to their constituents for re-election when they become Ministors, I say I thoroughly approve of that system, I believe it is in accordance with constitutional government, and _ I beiiove that the carrying out of that principle would tend more to the- purity,of this House, and to the purity of the occu pants of the Governmentbenches than th e carrying out of any othor principle what - ever. I believe, also, that frotu the lack of, carrying that principle out, a great many of the evils from which wo at present suffer have resulted. I shall certainly vote that when a Minister goes into office, whether he be an Attorney, • General, a Minister of Justice, or any otlier member of the Government, he should go back to his constituents, ask for their confidence, and seek re-election. Ministers would then come into this House with an amount of influence that . they cannot by any other means possess. I say the principal is right. Whether this be an opportune moment or not for introducing the question* I cannot exactly say; but I shall certainly vole for the affirmation ot that principle at tho proper time. . , . Mr. Wakefield.—Sir, lam not sure that I should have spoken upon this question, but for the remarks of the honorable member for the Thames (Mr liowc). I very much regret that, honorable, .gontle-man-thought the laughtor which, perhaps; he heard from mo on his rising, was directed towards himself. The House will at'onco recogniso that no member of the Houso could be loss an object of ridicule thau the honorable gentleman. It was more tlie excited manner in which tho honorable gentleman rose to meet the re-, marks of his honorable colleague thanj anything else which led me' to laugh.' Further, he may have obscrvod that (heso two honorable gentlemen do not roW in the samo boat, or, rather, they row in contrary directions j arid I do not think they will pull their boat very fur up tho Thames in that way. I havo always thought it a misfortune that that unhappy constituency should have annihilated their representation in this House'by sending two members to it who are so strongly opposed to oaoh other, There was a great fuss made last session about getting additional representation for tho I hames; but instead of getting more representation, they have actually done. away with the representation they had. Instead of having one member they now have none at'all, for one of their mombers always goes into one lobby and 'the other into the other lobby. Mr. Eowe.—l was not returned by the easting vote of the Returning Officer. Mr. Wakefield.—No; tho honorable gentleman had a considerable majority; but I think those'who put him in will wonder, when they see the result, why they took advantage of tho opportunity to send him here at all. I followed that honorable gentlemen's speech with great interest. He mentioned several times, that he-had endeavoured to serve his constituents in this House, and I. believe that no honorable member has tried more than he has; but why he should have said so in such an' excited manner, I cannot understand.