PARLIAMENTARY

Thames Advertiser, Volume VIII, Issue 2149, 16 September 1875, Page 3

PARLIAMENTARY

4 (PEB PBE3B AGENCf.)

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Wellington, Wednesday. INPBINGEMENT OF THE DISQUALIFICATION

In tho Legislative Council to-day, the Hon. Mr Mantell moved, "That it bo an instruction to the Disqualification Infringement Committee to inquire and report upon tho question of whother a member of this Council, holding an honorary appointment under tho Executive, can receive any travelling allowances or free passages whilst travelling on the duties of his honorary appointment, without a contravention of the Disqualification Aot ? "—Carried,

PUBLIC HEALTH AMENDMENT BILL. ThePublio Health Act 1872 Amendment Bill was introduced'by the Hon. Dr. Pollen.

HIGHWAY BOARDS EMPOWERING BJLL.

This bill, which is to adjustceriain differences between road boards, was read a second time, and ordered to committed next day.—The bill will be general in its application,

HOUSE OF EEPBESENTATIVES,

Wellington, Wednesday,

The House met at 2.30 p.m. MOBRAKI BEACON AND LIGHTHOUSE.

Mr Steward asked wkother tho Marino Department propose to tako steps to guard against accidents daring tho daytimo to vessels passing along tho coast of Otago between Oamaru and Port Chalmers by marking tho position of tho reef off Moeraki, known as the Fish Beef, by means of bell-buoys or floating beacons;,and when tho proposed.lighthouse at Moeraki will be available as a beacon and guide for vessels passing this portion of tho coast by night. Mr .Reynolds said the position of the reef was tvell laid down, and in ordinary weather any navigator ought to be ablo to give it a wide Jjertli. There was no doubt it was a dangerous reef in thick weather. The Government iatended to ereet a lightkouso at Moeraki, so that any vessel in passing could take the bearings, and so avoid tho reef. As soon as the money was voted, no timo would bo lost in proceeding with the work. MISOBLUNEOUS BETUBNS. On the motion of Mr O'Neill, it was agreed that reports of various,boards oi health bo'printed; returns of tho annual quantity of coal imported from 1870 to 1875; returns of persons drowned sinco 1870 in New Zealand rivers; returns of fining accidents sinco '1857, with full particulars as to the - causes, and- the names of the persons killed, 4c. THIS ABOLITION BILL. The Hon. Sir Donald McLean, aftor announcing that tho Abolition Bill would be postponed till to-morrow, at half-past 2, stated that tho adjournment of the House on Friday evening last was in

consequenco of having received a proposition from tho Opposition members. in reference to the Abolition Bill, and oth?r matters before the House, that led to several interviews between the Govern-

ment and members of the Opposition. The result of this wag that ithad been agreed that the Abolition Bill should pass the House that session) and that the bill should be considered entirely upon its merits, and without offering any unreasonable opposition to ita main principles. It was agreed that the bill should come into operation one day after the close of the first' session of the new Parliament. That was the concession made by the Q overnment, and he believed the hon. members acting with the Government would find that the principle of the bill would bo fully affirmed, and tho bill duly placed upon the Statute-book. The Government had insisted upon that, and it had been complied with. Upon tho question of when tho bill should bo brought into operation, they bad inet.the viows of the Opposition so far as to allow the bill not to becomo law before tho day named. With regard to the discussion between the Government and.tho'leaders of tho Opposition, he was glad to state it had been conducted in a way that evinced a desire .to expedite the business of tho country, and he. hoped that all future business would be conducted in a like manner, as they had a great deal to do before the session ended. Ho hoped cbo results arrived ,at would meet with the general concurrence of the House. (Goneral applause). Sir George Grey said he concurred in substance with- the statement of tho Native Minister. He wished to add, however, that personally he was not ablo to act in tho matter with those gentleman with whom upon all other subjects he was united. But the agreement having been come to, ho would do his best to give efFoot to the views expressed. For himself, ho could not altogether concur or acquiesce in tho course taken. Ho was, however, ab!e to state that tho Opposition would .faithfully carry out tho arrangements, and as the arrangement had been made, he should in no way interfere, object, or embarrass it. Mr Sheehan moved that the report of the Native Affairs Committee on the petition of certain natives of the Hauraki district, having reference lo restrictions on the sale of lands to Maori representation, and the neglect to place Maoris on tho jury list, bo now taken into consideration. Ho wished to see somelaw of general application. That there should not be restrictions in regard to one tribe while others had no such restrictions imposed. With regard to the latter part of tho motion, ho thought that if the special representation now granted to the natives were not increased to something like a fair proportion to a race who numbered at least forty thousand, it might bo found a bolter plan to place them at once,upon an equality with the rest of her Majesty's subjects in regard to voting at elections and serving upon juries. The Native Minister said Jtho Government fully recognised the importance of tho matters referred to. The question, however, was too large to introduce a change in the 'native land laws this session. No doubt there had been a great deal of dissatisfaction among the natives on this very. question. Much 'of this, however, was due to tho work of Europeans, who, for interested motives, made tho natives discontented. Tho Act of 1863,. ho thought, met a .great many of the objections,' and ho thought it should be left to its operation until there was a greater necessity for change than at present. The question of representation in the House was forced upon the Government; it was because thero was a special .need for it at the time, and it could not be made otherwise than exceptional. The Government went in the direotion of seeing the natives fully and fairly represented, and it was with that view they encouraged in every way the education of native youth. The present Maori Act expires in 1877, and he hoped by that timfc the natives would be able to send to the Houso representatives who could address them in the English language. With regard to juries, the 47th clause of the Act of 1868 provided for Maoris serving upon juries, and they had • dono so in somo instances.

Takamoana hoped the House alone : would deal with the matter, and not leave ; it io the Native Minister. Katene urged that the petition Bhould be referred to the Governmont. In reply to a question from Sir George Grey, the Native Minister said that when Government had considered the question of natives sitting upon juries he would inform the House what steps they proposed to take. Taiaroa was very much dissatisfied with the present representation given to the Maoris. He had moved for obtaining more, but the House took no notice of him. Jn fact, he could .see little use in the Maoris being in tho House. For his own part, ho did not intend to come back next Parliament, and he hoped no other representative would. Why did .not tho Government bring in this bill at once if they had one, and not postpone it till next session, else he should think they were working for the extinction of the race. Mr Stout moved, (l.) That, in tho opinion of this House, the most desirable and profitable way to dispose of the wasto lands of the Crown is py a leasing system. (2.) That the Governmont should, during the recess, prepare a bill to give oifect to the above resolutiou. This question might at present be considered a theoretical one, but ho felt tho day was not fur-distant whon it would become a most pressing one indeed. Although many might consider it Utopian, be had no doubt a party would gradually arise who would advocate the principle. The hon. gentleman referred the House to a. number of eminent modern thinkers who, whatever their difference, all agreed in the theory that a nation should not part with its lands. - The question had even, been brought up in the 0!ago Provincial Council, and the motion was defeated only by 18 to 15. In Victoria, too, some of the ablest.men voted in favour of it—men wbo, liko Grant and Kiginbotham, had made the subject a special study. 'At present, single individuals - could buy up all the land in. a city or district, and by rights of property could prevent anyone.residing there; just tho same way as wholesale evictions were possible in Scotland and Ireland. Looking at the question from tho point of expediency, he thought the position of this colony was strongly in favour of the theory ho advanced, as , would bo seen by the great value the lands of tho colony would reach in the course of time, 'ihe principle was not so now as it seemed. Tho • theory was carried out in practice by granting reserves to education boards, harbour boards, municipalities, and other local bodies, to retain theso lands in their ■ hands for purposes of future profit, i Tho hon. gentleman quoted from Stuart i Mill, McDonald, and Cairns, to show

the wisdom of. the 'State owning the land. Taking this' colony, they saw the State, by making a railway near a person's land, increasing the value of that land fourfold without the owner having ever done anything to make his land more valuable. It might be urged that the principle was opposed to industry and enterprise; but it did not do that, for men would have wealth and everything open to them that could be got by exertion, excepting the ownership of tho soil, which he could not create. Grey, whd was a great political writer, certainly urged with all his weight that the best men should enjoy lind, but experience had shown'.that tho best men had not enjoyed the land, and that monopoly had nothing to do with •raising a race of clever men. He agreed with Emerson, who said that an.English-' man born to a nice comfortable living as an inheritance, rarely developed into an intellectual light. So long as they believed in tho existing practice they could not complain at the wholesale evictions which took place in Scotland and Ireland.It had been urged that if .you destroyed the freehold system of land agriculture would languish, as mon would not display the same .earnestness in improving the land that they would if it was their own properly. But the facts were against that. Nations had been. built up and agriculture developed under, the tenant systemj and at tho presentday, in the Lowlands of Scotland, where some of the. very best farming was carried on, farmers wero all tenants. If the system of only leasing tho land were introduced into this colony, we could do without taxation altogether. If the funs were placed in the market, open to the whole people, the purely pastoral runs might be made to yiold.a quarter of a million in rent yearly. The premiums now paid to squatters for their runs showed they wero ridiculously low-rented. Then he estimated that the vast tracts of land in Otago, partly pastoral and partly agricultural, ought to realise another £150,000 yearly, and applying the same calculations to the rest of the colony,' there wou.ld bo suoli a revenue derived that the Treasurer would .absolutely not know what to do with the money. Take it from another point of view. Ought the colony to be expending" its millions for the benefit and creation of a capitalist class. While recognising the usefulness of capitalists, ho contended .that the colony was at present going in the wrong direction. Wo left Europe in tho hope of coming to a country where the evils of old countries did not exist, but what was the fact ? In Canterbury, which was held up as a model in. tho way of dealing.with its

lands, ho could mention several instances whero one individual owned miles of land

in one block. Those who thought that when the land was sold the land question would bo disposed of were entirely mistaken. lhat would bo one of the first things to lead to an. agitation _on tho land question. Even in America, whose lands might bo thought illimitable, tho quostion was assuming great imporlanoe, and ero long it must be a leading ono amongst American politicians. It was urged as a difficulty against this scheme that the State could not resume possession of lands already sold, but he saw no obstacle to that that

could not bo overcome. In bringing for

ward this question he did so only from the desire that the question should be brought under tho notice of- the people with the hope that the next Parliament would take the . matter up, and initiate a system _ which would prevent tho ruinous taxation now beforo them. Had the originator of the great scheme they were now carrying out made some provision for a rise in the price of land consequent upon the execution of public works, he would have placed his scheme upon a comprehensive and statesmanlike basis. If this colony would but take the lead in this matter she would not only bo setting a good example to older countries on a great s'ocial question, but would get rid of all her financial difficulties, and initiate a new theory of Government in the system of progress such as had net heretofore been seen.

Mr Bowen hoped the motion would be i withdrawn, because it would bo impossi- 1 bio for the Government to introduce i legislation upon such a many-sided ques- I tion. Although political cconomy pro- i fessed to regard the greatest happiness of tho greatest number, yet the science, which was comparatively now, neglected many features in the problom that were essential to human happiness, such, for instance, as the sentimental sido. They must look to the attractions which brought _ people here from overcrowded countries of the. old world, and one of the strongest wns a desire to possess a piece of the soil and make a home for themselves and their families. While admitting the great want of the eminent.men quoted by the member for Caversham, it must not be forgotten they were pioneers of thought; they were men feeling their way in different branches of political science, and who, though they often stepped forward here and there, had as often to retrace their steps. They no doubt did a great deal of good, but it would be rash to follow them at once wherever they led until their theories were endorsed by experience of- the world. For instance; Herbert Spencer wondered how constituencies could be so foolish as to send lawyers into the House of Commons as their representatives. Another point was tho danger of creating a dead level, and limiting the ambition of men. Our ambition ought to bo to give all a fair start. We should not say you shall reach so far and no farther. As to owners reaping advantage by the expenditure of Government money in railways, and so increasing privato land or property, he thought it was practically impossible to prevent persons reaping benefits from the exertions of other people. Thousands of instances of this must be seen in all tho workings of industry and commerce. There was no doubt that there wero conditions which would justify the State stepping in on the-interest and for the happiness of tho greatest number. But ho feared that if such a scheme as that proposed wero introduced, a perpetual agitation would follow, which would lead to a running sore in the conflict which would ensue between those who. were ; fortunate enough to be occupants of ■ Crown lands and those who were not. The hon. member held out a'dazzling prospect of tho surplus wealth of the Colonial Treasury; but to him thatap- ; peared to be rather an evil than otherwise. It would be better to have the i Treasurer to como to the tax-payer for i money if ho wanted it. 3he money i would come out of the people's pocket in , some way, though it might not bo quite ; apparent, and it would move, in accord- . ane'e with their ideas, that they should > find tho money. [ Mr Ballance thought the question of ' such importance as to call for consider- , able discussion. He' therefore moved, ; " That tho debate .be adjourned till - Wednesday next."

• Mr Steward moved-," That the interim report of the Debates Committee, presented on the 14th instant, be taken into consideration." The Committtee, having gone into the matter, saw only two bourses open to them—either to make the practice, and make provision accordingly, or else prohibit a few members from having an undue advantage over others, and they had seen no reason to alter their decision.

Debate was cut short by 5.30 o'clock.