TE WHITI IN NEW PLYMOUTH.

Taranaki Herald, Volume XXIX, Issue 3890, 15 November 1881, Page 2

TE WHITI IN NEW PLYMOUTH.

PROCEEDINGS IN T THE RESIDENT MAGISTRATE'S COURT. MONDAY— November 14. The Court sat at 10.30 a.m. to-day, when the following Magistrates were present :—: — C. E. Rawson, Esq., R.M., 11. Parris, Esq., R.M. ; F. A. Carrington, Esq., T. King, Esq., and C. D. Whitcombe, Esq., J.P.s. C. W. Hursthouse deposed : I htive known the prisoner Tohu for the last fifteen months personally. I have known him by report for the last eight or nine years. He belongs to the Taranaki tribe, and' I think he belongs to the same hapu as Te Whiti. He resides at Parihaka. I know he has resided there for the last fifteen months. He is next in rank to Te Whiti at Parihaka. The natives there obey Tohu. I think about 50 or 60 natives only belong to Parihaka, although there have been, on an average, about 2,000 residing there during the last year. Parihaka is confiscated land of the Crown. The Government have, within the last two years, been making efforts to survey and sell the land near Parihaka which was confiscated. About 12,000 acres have been sold to Europeans. Certain portions of the Parihaka have been reserved, including some 26,000 acres, for the use of the natives. It was the intention of the Government to give this land back to the natives. For three years past the Maories have been interfering with the laud in the possession of private persons and of the Crown. I attended the meeting on the 17th September, and heard Tohu speak. He said : " There is only one thing to talk about now — that is death. Listen, surveyors and prisoners. Quarrel ! quarrel !" Mr. Samuel : Yon are the informant in this case, and there are other expressions mentioned in the information. Can you swear to them 1

C. W. Hursthouse : There are expressions in the information which I cannot swear to myself. I got them from other gentlemen who were present at the meeting. Mr. Samuel : You can give us what you remember of the speech, and also the meaning of it. Witness : It would be difficult for me to give the meaning of the sentences. I prefer not do so. I heard him also say : " I let my tribe go to contend for the land that the white man has taken." Mr. Samuel : Did Tohu not also say : " I say to all, let the white man come and swallow us up ?" C. W. Hursthouse : I cannot remember him saying that. I remember him saying : "Do not be afraid of the big ones, although they all hunger for us." Mr. Samuel : To whom did he refer when he said big ones ? C. W. Hursthouse : I do not know. Ho might have meant God Almighty for all I know. Mr. Samuel : Mr. Hursthouse, you must use the inferences of a reasonable man. Was it not the Government he meant ? Witness : It might have been so. Examination continued : Tohu also said, ''All I have to say is, quarrel and strike, and spare none. The name of to-day is pakanga (quarrel). Remember what I say." I could not swear that Tohu said "strike, and spare none " more than once during his speech. He said " strike, oh prisoners ; oh survivors, strike." Mr. Samuel : There are other expressions | in the information used by Tohu. Witness : I cannot swear to them. I cannot swear to expressions I did not hear. His Worship : You have already sworn to them on the information. Witness : I was not aware that 1 was responsible for all that appeared in the information, or I would not have sworn to it. Examination resumed : After the meeting on 17th September was over, the Maoris continued to interfere with the land of the Europeans in the vicinity of Parihaka. The Government ordered the natives to desist, but they took no notice of the orders. The Government had about 500 or 600 armed men in the vicinity of Parihaka at the time of the meeting in September. By the Court : The natives attended Parihaka from all parts of the island. Mr. Whitcombe : What is the meaning of the expression " Let all who wish to quarrel come this way." Witness : It means " Let the Europeans come this way." They did uot consider that the Maoris wished to quarrel. Tohu was informed that he could ask the witness questions. Toha : Were you at the meeting when I made the second speech in the evening ? Witness : I only took down the words of the speeches in the morning. I did not take down what was said in the evening, as I was not there. Tohu : Do you know the division of the land that was made for the natives ? Witness : Yes, I know it. Tohu : Did you tell us where it waa ' Witness : No. The Court adjourned until 2 p.m. On the Court resuming at 2 p.m., Mr. Standish said he proposed to go on with Te Whiti's case. Wellington Carrington deposed : I am a licensed interpreter, and Captain New Zealand Militia (unattached). I have known Te Whiti for the last thirty-iive years. He belongs to the Ngatimoiau hapu of the Waikato tribe, and resides at Parihaka. Before the confiscation Parihaka belonged to Te Whiti's hapu. The Government have surveyed ami offered for sale land in the Parihaka Block, seaward of the Great South Road, I have been stationed in the locality of Parihaka as Government interpreter since November 4, 1880. I believe there are about 500 acres set apan for the natives on the land seaward of the South Koa 1. I believe there are 25 000 acres set apart for the natives inland of the South Road. Prior to September last the natives offered obstruction to the peaceable occupation by tho settlers of land sold to them by the Government seaward of the South Road. They cultivated part of the land, and fenced it. I have never seen more than ten or twelve natives at a time actually engaged cultivating the Crown lands. The natives always came from Parihaka to work at the cultivations. 1 lnvc been in the habit of attending the monthly Parihaka meetings regularly for the last twelve months, and occasionally for several years before that. These meetings are always addressed by Te Whiti. I was present at the meeting in September last, and heard Te Whiti address the natives. The natives appeared to listen attentively to what was said. I recollect

some of the words Te Whiti used. I made notes of them. He said : " Mine is the land, mine are the people ; this is the great quarrel of this generation. Mine is the land from the beginning. I say to great men, to kings, governors, prophets, and wise men, stand up now with your weapons, the land will not be let. go. It is proper for us that the quarrel should be here. We are striving about the land, said to be the Governor's land. Pakehas bring your guns, Maoriee bring your guns ; fighting alone will settle things at. this time ; although 50,000 men build the walls at Pungarehu it will be a burying place for them. Although there are 20,000 guns there, ihey will vanish behind my back. If they catch or get hold of you, you catch ; if they strike with the fist, you strike ; if they take prisoners, you take prisoners." I was told off to read the proclamation to Tc Whiti. I went with Mr. Butler to Parihaka, and he delivered a copy of the proclamation produced. Mr. Standish : I will put the proclamation in evidence. Probably it will be better to read the proclamation now to Te Whiti. Mr. Rennell read the proclamation to Te Whiti, in Maori, who listened attentively.

Examination resumed : A native named Rangi or Lloyd read the proclamation to Te Whiti, and the copy was left with them. When Rangi read as far as where the natives are commanded to disperse and go to their own homes, Te Whiti said, " That will do," and would not listen to any more of the proclamation. I went up with a letter which Mr. Bryce wrote to Te Whiti, but I do not know its contents, except by hearsay. Te Whiti has not said anything to me about whether he would accept the terms of the proclamation. Te Whiti would not read Mr. Bryce's letter, but threw it down on the ground. Since tho 17th September the natives have finished cropping the land seaward of the road. I have never seen a guard of natives placed at the fences to watch over them. Some men were placed there to keep cattle off the land. I have never heard that the land described in the proclamation as reserves t for the natives has been shown or described to Te Whiti. He has never asked about it. Mr. Parris : Do you remember you went up with me when I went to Parihaka to explain to Te Whiti about the land ? Witness : Yes. Sir. Parris: After I commenced to speak to Te Whiti, what did he say ? Witness : He said dogs did not come out hunting pigs without their masters. Te Whiti then gave a signal to break up the meeting, and refused to allow you to explain the nature of the reserves to the natives. Mr. Parris : Were you not supplied with a plan showing the land that had been reserved for the natives ? and were you not instructed to show the boundaries to the natives ? Witness : Certainly not. Mr. Parris : Remember, you arc on your oath. Witness : I know that ; you need not remind me of it. Mr. Parris : A plan was made out by Mr. Humphries, showing the reserves, and given to you. Witness : I received a plan of the ieserves, but it was given to me for the purpose of finding out what natives were cultivating on portions of the land coloured on the plan, and I did so. I did not understand I was to point out the boundaries of the reserves to the natives, or I would have done so. Mr. Parris : Have the 25,000 acres ever been defined or pointed out to the natives? Witness : Not that I know of. Mr. Parris : Were you not aware by the map that a portion of the land seaward of Pungarehu was reserved for the natives. Witness : I understood that without the map. Mr. Parris : And yet you never explained it? Witness : Certainly not. Mr. Parris : Well, I recollect giving you those instructions myself. Witness : I never was told to point out the boundaries to the natives ; it was altogether out of my line. Mr. Wliitcombe : Have you seen the report of the West Coast Commission and the plan attached to it ? Witness : I cannot say that I have seen the plan. I recollect seeing the report. Mr. Whitcombe : How many natives are there interested in the Parihaka Block ? Witness : I do not think there are more than 150 men belonging to the hapu. Te Whiti was told that he could examine the witness. Te Whiti : Did I not tell you not to write down what I said at the meetings, because you did not understand it? Witness : I remember you telling me not to write down your speech. Te Whiti : Did you come over on the even- , ing of the 18th to hear the speeches that were made 1 Witness : No. I Te Whiti : Was the notice (proclamation) read at Parihaka the same that was read today in Court ? Witness : Yes. (Te Whiti appeared to be surprised at this, and did not ask any more questions.) Mr. Parris : Do you know that Mr. Hursthouse and Colonel Roberts went out to the natives repeatedly when they were fencing and told them not to do so, and showed them the reserves which were set apart for them ?

Witness : I do not know what Colonel Roberts and Mr. Hursthouse said to the natives, but I have seen them go out often. Mr. Parris : Are yon not aware that when the Maoris were spoken to about the reserves 'hey always said — " Oh, go toTe Whiti; there is no use talking to us 1" Wiuiess : Yes. Charles Messenger deposed he was a licensed iaterpreier. and hud known Te Whiti for t-.venty -five years. He had attended a {.'rear many meetings for the lasi nine years. He mended the meeting in September last, and heard ie Whiti address the Maoris. The witness corroborated the evidence of the last witness as to the expressions used by Te Whiti in his speech of the 17th September last. Te Whiti : Were you at Parihaka on tho evening of the 17th September when I was talking to the natives ? Witness : I was at Parihaka, but was not present when you were speaking. Mr. Standish said that closed the evidence for the Crown. The interpreter then read the formal caution to the prisoners prior to their making a statement. Te Whiti appeared to be very languid during the afternoon, this being probably induced by the exceedingly close atmosphere of the Court, which was densely crowded all day.

Te Whiti said it is night now, and not the time for speaking. Mr. Standish : I understand from that, that he is tired and fagged, and does not feel able to address the Court. If that is the case, then I would have no objection to the case being remanded until to-morrow-morning. The interpreter stated that Te Whiti wished to speak in the morning. The Court was accordingly adjourned till to-morrow morning. THIS DAY— Tuesday, November 15. The Court resumed at 10.30 a m to-day, when the following Magistrates were present: — C. E. Rawson, Esq., R M.. R. Parris, Esq., R.M. ; F. A. CarringtoM, Esq., C. D. Whitcombe, Eiq., H. Weston, Esq., and T. King, Esq., J.P.s Te Whiti was informed that re 'could address tho Court. Mr. Standish said it would be|desirable that the statement about to be made br Tc Whiti should be taken down in writing. His Worship : Certainly. Te Whiti said : It is very little I have to say. The land. It was finished some time ago; at the time with the King and the Governor. It was said the whole of the land belonged to the Government. We (the natives) have been straying on the land of the Government. We have been straying on the land ever since the war was over. We hare been cultivating the land. We have not put food in to cause a quarrel. We have put in food for subsistence up to the present time. It is not my v;is\\ that evil should come to either of the tribes (or two races). My wish is for the whole of us to live on the land. I have never wished to do evil or kill any one up to the present time. My wish is for th« whole of us to live happy on the land — that is my wish. This is the way I address the Maori people. That is all I have to say. The statement taken down in Maori -was read over to Te Whiti, and he stated it was correct. Mr. Standish declined to address the Court. His Worship then addressed Te Whiti in the following terms :— " You are committed to the common gaol of New Plymouth, and there safely kept until you shall be thence delivered by due course of law." Te Whiti did not make any reply. The Court then proceeded to hear Tohu's case. W. Carrington otatet : I have known Tohu for a good many years, but more particularly since Te Whiti has commenced to hold his meetings at Parihaka. Tohu has resided at Parihaka for several years, and lse belongs to several hapus of the Taranaki tribe. I have been stationed at the Pungarehu camp for the last 12 months, in the service of the Government, and under command of Colonel Roberts. I believe that Tohu has almost as much influence with the natives asTe Whiti. I was present at the meeting at Parihaka on the 17th inst. Tohu spoke at the meeting, saying " There is nothing strange to talk of to-day ; death (or distress) alone for both races. Listen to me, the survivors and the prisoners. Quarrel alone is the talk to-day. Be strong all of you ; be brave, and do not be swallowed up. The wish of the pakeha is to swallow us up, because we are few. We shall not be swallowed. You are not striving for a small piece of land, but you are striving for all the land. Those who wish to fight come here. All I have to say is — quarrel : strike (or kill)." [The witness also repeated a number of expressions previously stated by Mr. Hursthouse. ] Tohu declined to ask the witness any questions, saying that his case was the same asTe Whiti's, and the statement made by Te Whiti would also apply to him. Charles Messenger deposed : I have known, the prisoner Toiiu for the last eight or nine years, and he has resided at Parihaka during that time. About eighty or a hundred natives resided at Parihaka eight or nine years ago, and in September last there were two thousand natives residing there. This increase was not due to the natural increase of the population, but to members of other tribes coming to live at Parihaka. [The witness then gave evidence corroborative of that given by the previous witnesses relative to the expressions used by Tohu iv his speech at Parihaka on the 17th September.J Tohu asked the witness : Were you at the meeting in the evening of the 17th Sept. .' Witness : No. Tohu : Do you perfectly understand what land I alluded to iv my speech ? Witness : I understood it was the contiscated land. This closed the case for the prosecution. The prisoner did not make any statement. The prisoners, on being asked to sign their names to the statements made by them, replied that they could not write. They were told to touch the pen while the cross was being made. Te Whiti did so without any hesitation but Tohu required some argument before he could be persuaded to comply with the request. Tohu was committed to gaol in the same manner as Te Whiti. This concluded the business.