The Accused at the Police Court. Opening of the Case by the Crown Solicitor.

Te Aroha News, Volume IV, Issue 178, 13 November 1886, Page 4

The Accused at the Police Court. Opening of the Case by the Crown Solicitor.

Public interest in the terrible tragedy at the Great Barrier does not appear in uny way to have abated. Another large crowd assembled in the vicinity of the Police Station this morning in the hope of obtaining a glance at the prisoners,Caffrey, Perm and Graham, who have acquired so mach notoriety in connection with the affair. The Court-room was crowded to excess, and it wad & noticeable fact that amongst those who elbowed their way into prominent positions in the fionC rank of frpectatorp were a number of well-dreesed wrmen. The Courtoth'cialt experienced some difficulty in preserving order amongst the crowd, and the threat was made from the Bench that unless bilence was maintained, the Court would be cleared. Thia ultimatum had the effect of restoring order. The justices on the Bench when the Court sit were Major Lusk and Messrs Moody and Whitcombo. The ordinary police business was disposed of in twenty minutes, and at ten minutes to eleven Constable McCellan announced that the Court stood adjourned till halt-past eleven. The prisoners Caffiey and Perm were at the same moment led into the box, and were as quickly removed again. Mr Napier (counsel for Perm) at once asked the Bench if he had understood correctly that the Bench had adjourned the Court. The Bench intimated that such was the case. Mr Napier then asked for what reason it had been done, more especially as no intimation of the alteration was given to the counsel, who were all in attendance at the usual hour, Mr Luflk paid that the Court was adjourned because Mr Smith could not attend until that hour. Mr Napier said he considered that they had been treated with scant courtesy in the matter by not being informed of the alteration. If Mr Smith had sent word that the Court must be adjourned, he thought that, at least, the counsel might have been informed, in order that they might not have been compelled to waste time which might have been more profitably employed. Mr Luck said he did not think it necessary t < diecuss that question, as it was a matter that the Bench could always decide. Mr Napier said that, of course, they had tho right, but still he must protest against the Court being adjourned by a preempt ory mandate in this manner without previous notification being given to the counsel. The justice* then loft the Bench, but there was no diminution in the crowd of spectators in the Court. They patiently maintained their positions, and occasionally the swaying of the crowd from side to side in tegular see-saw motion showed that they had found a vent for their oxcess of animal spirits. The Court did not resume until ten minutes to twelve o'clock, when the room was still crowded to excess. The throng was, in fact, so great that precautions had to be taken to prevent the barricades from being carried away. Mr H. G. Seth Smith and Mr It. W. Moody occupied the Bench. As soon as their Worships had seated themselves upon the Bench, Mr Hudson Williamson (Crown Solicitor) rose, and intimated that he desired to make a statement with respect to circumstances that had arisen since the prisoners were remanded. He then proceeded to state that no interviews had taken place between press reporters and the prisoners as alleged. ' He felt called upon to make this explanation in justice to the gaol officials, whose efficiency was reflected upon in the eyea of the outside world, and in justice, also, to the subordinate officials, who felt their position and chr.racterhave to been improperly prejudiced. It was conducive to the disorganisation of any discipline in the gaol that any such statement should be made. The gaoler (Mr Res ton) also took the opportunity to deny that anyone had bad access to the prisoners while they were in his charge except the solicitors

who had been retained to defend them. The , statement that press interviews' had taken, place, hag put, the subordinate, officer? in an unfair position. , ' '""' < Sergt. Pratt, said that he was present when the .prisoners arrived from Sydney and were taken to the Police Station. He placed special, guard over them in the watchhou.ee) with instructions to permit no person whatever to have access to them, and, those instructions were so well carried out that even the solicitors for the defence were unable to see the prisoners u,ntil,the following morning. So far as the, reporter's information was concerned, it was not obtained while the prisoners were in charge of the police. Mr Napier stated that so far as he was personally concerned he did not try to see the prisoners on the night of their arrival, although Mr Thomson courteously enquired beforehand if he wiehed to do so. The next morning Sergeant Pratt promptly gave instructions for him to be permitted access to the prisoner Perm. The gaoler, however, had been a little incorrect in stating with regard to the subsequent proceedings that no one but prisoners' counsel bad had access to them. The gaoler : Up to and after the time the reports appeared. Mr Napier said that he had a representation to make on behalf of one of the accused, who complained very strongly of having been deceived by the Crown Solicitor, who had obtained an interview with her in the 1 presence of the gaoler and tho warder. He was informed by the accused girl Graham that Mr Williamson — Here Mr Williumson interposed. He trusted their Worships would not allow Mr Napier to repeat any statement that tho girl Grabam had made to him in the gaol or elsewhere with regard to his conduct. Mr Napier: Mr Williamson himself admitted to me Mr Smith said that the matter had nothing to do with the Court. Mr Napior replied that it was a matter of public importance, and he submitted that; he had a right to briDg it forward. Mr Smith retorted that it was quite fnreign to the matter that the Bench had to deal with. Mr Hapier replied that as far an tho prisoners were concerned, the complaints which had just been made on the part of the -prison officials were quite as foreign to theproceedingsof the Court, and maintained that the defence were entitled to the indulgence of saying in open Court that they bad been wrongly treated by the Crown'e law officer. Mr Smith intimated that Mr Napier had better reserve his remarks until ho was called upon to make a statement in tho usual way. Mr Napier said that he should do so. Ho had, however, another complaint to prefer, which should not be poetponed. Tho prisoner Perm had been kept handcuffed in the Court thie morning, until a few minutes before their Worships took their seats upon the Bench. He inquired of the gaoler when he inteuded to remove hia handcuffs, and the gaoler, with his usual ignorance and want of manners, discourteously replied that it would be done when he thought proper. He (Mr Napier) then aeked when that would be, and the gaoler retorted that "That was his business." He submitted that the gaoler had no right to treat the piisoner as he had done, and that for a subordinate official he took too much upon himself. (The gaoler : I am not a subordinate official). Theie was no reason for no treating a man. It was not the first time that complaint had been made for want of courtesy on the part of the gaoler Mr Palmer eaid that, as Caffrey's counsel, he could quite concur with Mr Napier in his statement as to having had no omimnnic ition with the prisoners on the night of tueir arrival. While Cafirey was in the gaol, nobody interviewed him, so far ■is he was- aware, but himself, Mr Henderson, and Mr Whitley, at one of which interviews ne was himself present. He did not see why any importance should be attached to the matter, for in his opiiiion the case had been in no way prejudiced by what had appodied in the papers. M. Brusooy also desired to make an explanation. He said that the public had besn pi icttdin po-^eersion of certain correspondence which hud passed between himself and the Crown Solicitor with respect to hie position in the matter as counsel for the Taylors -\fter receiving Mrs Taylors letter, wherein she stated that she had been advieed by the Crown Solicitor that it was not necessary for her to be represented by counsel he endeavoured to pee her, but after the steamer's arrival with the members of the Taylor family they were vory closely guarded, placed in a cab, and driven straight up to the Dolice station. He had seen Mrs Taylor, however, this morning, and she had told him that owing to what the Ciown Solicitor bad et&ted to her, she did not desire to proceed further with her wi<?h to retain him (Mr Brassey). Under the circumstances he felt annoyed at tho manner in which he had been treated, and especially po after he found that the Taylors had been told not to leave the steamer until they were brought to the Court in a cab, and placed in the Magistrate's r<>om. Whether they were put there in order that he should not have an opportunity of seeing thenj he could not say, but at any rate he had a perfect right to say that he felfc very much aggrieved to find himeelf placed in the position that he occupied. Whether that position was the outcome of the advice given by the Crown Solicitor or not he was unable to say, but at any rate he hud no other course open to him than to wicLdraw from the case at present. Mr Bra^aey then withdrew. The gaoler asked leave to state with regard to Mr Napior's explanation that that gentleman came to him in a very b mnceable and offensive manner, and complaining of Perm being handcuffed, said, '• v\ ill you take the-e handcuffs off at once ?" Mr Napier flatly contradicted this statement. His manner had been in no wise bouncable or offensive. As he had said before, he merely asked, " When will you take ther-e handcuffs off?" when the gaoler gruffly replied: "When I think proper." Then, when he awked when that would be, he received the further answer: "That's my business. ' He submitted that the gaoler had no right to put the handcuffs on at all. Mr Thomson had said that there was absolutely no reason for the men to be in irona after their arriving. Sergeant Pratt remarked that this was hai'dly correct, as the prisoners had been handcuffed from the time of their arrival until they left the watch house. Mr Smith said it was a matter for the discretion of the officials. Mr Napier resented, and said that that discretion should be exercised with reasonable care and prudence. The prisoners were then called. John Caffrey and Henry Albert Perm were charged on remand with having on the 19th of June, 1886, at Tryphena Harbour, Great Barrier Island, feloniously/, wilfully, and of malice aforethought, killed and murdered one Robert Taylor. Mr Napier : I appear for the prisoner Perm. Mr Jackson Palmer: I appear for the prisoner Caffrey.

Mr Hudson Wil}fomson, Crowa Solicitor : I am instructed to*«ppear for the prosecution., . , ( . \ di^tfce^applicaftbn of Mr' Palmer, the witnesses were' ordered out of Court. ( Mr' Williamson : I 'propose" to introduce to the notice of your Worships, as briefly and ooncieely as I oan, the circumstances which the prosecution rely upon in their application to your Worships to commit these two men for trial on the charge of the murder of Mr Robert Taylor on the 19th of June last. The evidence which I, propose to lay, before your Worships to-day will be that of the girl Grace Graham, who was on board the cutter Sovereign of the Seas, at the time the murder was committed, and who will be able to state the ' circumstances immediately preceding the murder, and that which occurred immediately afterwards. All the witnesses who are here to state the circumstances connected with the actual offence itself At this stage some slight disturbance was occasioned by the closely- packed state of the Court, and at Mr Williamsons request the police proceeded to clear it. While the public were slowly and reluctantly filing out of the doorways, one man' exclaimed in a loud voice, "God have mercy on youCaffrey." The acquaintances of the prisoners nodded to them as they passed out, and both Caffrey and Perm acknowledged these marks of recognition, j Mr Williamson : I stated when the interruption took place that the girl Graham would inform your Worships of the circumstancee which took place immediately before and after the firing of the fatal Bhot. She, along with Caffrey and Perm, was on board of the cutter Sovereign of the Seas, which left the Railway vVharf here, on Thursday evening, the 17th June, and she remained on board until the arrival of the cutter off Tryphena Bay, while the twe men went ashore. She WP3 still on boaad when they returned to the cutter, and sailed away from the island, remaining with them until the vessel was wrecked on the coat<t of New South Wales On the evening of Thursday, the 17th June, when she went on board with Caffrey and Perm, th9re were also on board several other persons whoee names we have not been able to ascertain. There seems to have been a convivial party on board the cutter that evening; brandy, rum, and wine appear to have been freely drunk, until the men were in a delirious condition, Late at night the cutter got under weigh, all the company having left her except Caffrey, Perm, and the girl Graham. Caffrey took his pobition at the wheel, the girl Graham remained on deck also, and Perm went down below to hie bunk. In getting down the Rangitoto Channel, the wind being calm and the tide ebbing, Caffrey called Perm and told him it was his turn at the wheel. Perm accord ingly came on deck, and Caffrey and the girl went below and turned in, while Perm, overpowered by the liquor, went asleep on deck. The vepsel left to herseif, and become unmanageable, drifted on to the rocks at Rangitoto island, near Mr Lanigan's Point. There was a scow there, and the men from her came on board the cutter and helped to get her off. The girl will say that certain circumetancos occurred vhilst the vee?el was here which will go to show premeditation of their design on the part ot the prisoners, ci her one or both of them — a design to carry out the crime which was subsequently committed. She will tell you that when the vessel was on the Rangitoto Beef Perm told Caffrey that Mr Henderson, the owner of the vessel, had asked him the evening before to tell Caffrey on no account to leave the wharf until he had teen him, as he had certain matters about accounts, and so on, to square up He will also tell you that Caffrey, knowing he had disobeyed Mr Hendersons orders, appeared to be under the impression that when IVlr Henderson had discovered his vessel was gone, he would start in pursuit. A boat was seen coming down the harbour, and Caffiey suggested that perhaps it was the police, and determined to offer repistance Both he and Perm armod themselves? with revolvers, for they had on board the cutter three revolvers and a gun. The revolvers, however, being the only weapons available for insrant use, were loaded at tho time, and there iB little doubt th; t if uny officers of the police had gone on board, they would not have come off alive. However, it proved to be a fal?e alarm, for the vess el pasted and went en her way. With the at-tietanee, there fore, of the men from the scow, the cuttei wae got off the rockp, and proceeded through the eastern passage to her destination at the Great Barrier Island ; another ciicumstanco took place on tne vo>age which shows premeditation on the part of Caffrey, and the knowledge of Perm of the nature of the expedition in which he had embarked. On passing an island called the Watchman, outside ot Tripheua Bay Caffiey again produced the revolvers, V, in order to be satisfied of hor efficacy, proceeded to load and fire at the island as they passed it. Having eatit-fied himself that they were prepared for vee he proceeded to place them under his bunk, remarking that a.l were ready for what they had to do. The girl seems not to have previously understood what it was they intended to do, but it now dawned upon her that something serious was contemplated, and she got alarmed. Early on the Saturday morning, about 3 30 o'clock, the cutter dropped anchor in Tryphena Bay in euch a position that she could net be seen from Taylors house I have had a map of the place prepared by competent purveyors', but as they only returned from the island thid morning: it was not be yet quite ready for production inCourt. loan, however, exhibit a map which will be asufficieut substitute for it at present. It will be sufficiently clear to show Your Worships the position in which the cutter was anchored with regard to xaylor's house. (Mr Williamson then handed a sketch plan up to the Bench.) You will a*-e that there ia a bay under that headland which is called Tavlor'eßay. That h a bay on the ialniid on which the hou c c is situated, and round a point which is furthei (in there is another bay called Sunday Bay, »nd this is where the cutter wan anchored. You will notice than over that intervening ppace of land to the house there is a track indicated, aad it is necessary to explain that that track is over a very # steep and precipitous hill. The hill was a very Bteep one, and some considerable number of feet high, and quite sufficient to prevent anyone at Taylors house from seeing prisoners on the beach. The girl said they anchored there very early in the morning, just before daylight. At this time the plan of attack was discue3ed by Caffrey and Perm, and the girl will tell your Worships that she heard Caffrey direct Perm to go to the house and apk for butter. It was arranged that Caffrey should watch his opportunity, rush in and seize the girl, and carry her off. It was also understood that if there was any resistance that the old man should be tied up and mutilated ; and, in fact, it was agreed that his ears should be cut off The girl Graham actually heard all this.and her evidence on the point will show the dangerous character of , the men with' whom your Worships have tpdeal. These arrangements having been made, the men got into

the cutter's dingy and pulled ashore. When they landed, whether they were tired with having been upail night, or whether they thought, the Taylors had not risen, they, at all events, stretohed themselves on the grass and went to sleep. Subsequently, the girl saw Perm getting up and walking away in the direction of Taylors, house. Caffrey goon afterwards rose from the gr*g» also and followed in the same direction; The evidence of the girl shows tbat Perm arrived at Taylors house first, and here I must ' back out of the girl's narrative. The statements of the other witnesses eerve to inform us of what happened at the house. Mrs Taylor will tell ub that she and her son Lincoln, a boy of 19 years, and the girl Janie, were going about their ordinary household work. The' other girl who is known as Mrs Seymour was in bed at the bank with her baby. It will'appear from Mrs Taylors statement that Perm went into the kitchen, where he was received with that cordiality which is customary in all theee country places. He was invited to take a Beat, and then said that Mb business was to get dome butter for the cutter Teviot. It waa customary for , Taylor to Bupply butter to those vessels that traded at the island. At the time Perm made his request for butter, Taylor waß engaged cutting a portion of a cheep for the breakfast. He at once acceded to the request, and proceeded to wash his bands, for the purpose' of getting the butter. At this moment Caffrey rushed in, and called to Taylor to hold his hands up. Those who were there at the time will tell the Court that Taylor replied, {l Oh, Johnny (Johnny was the name by which Caffrey was familiarly known), oh, Johnny don't shoot me." Tho evidence will go to Bhow that a Bhot waß then flred, but it did not take effect. We have not been able to find that bullet, although search was made for it on the occasion of the inquest, and also yesterday. The boy, alaimed at what was happening, rushed through the centre door. Caffrey called on him to come back, and another ahot waa then fired. That bullet was found directly above the doorway. It wai» cut out with the piece of wood, and will be placed before the Court. Mrs Seymour made her escape from rho back, and the other girl as well as the boy also escaped. Mrs Taylor and the deceased man Taylor were thus the only porfons left in the house, and with regard to what happened in the house subsequently we shall have to rely on the evidence of Mrs Taylor. She will tell your Worships thafc the old man rushed throug the room into one of centre apart* merits. Her remembrance of what happened then is virtually indistinct ; but she eayß the men followed her husband. She will also tell the Court tbat she saw Perm holding her husband with one arm, and pointing a revolver at him with the other, while Caffrey tired a pistol at him. The bullet from this shot penetrated the left eye, and entered the old man's brain. Although four shotw were fired, this was the only one that appeared to have struck Taylor At thi^time Mrs Taylor was frantic with excrement and rushed our of the house, and did not retuin, on her way from the house, she proceeded in the direction of Sandy Bay over the came track which Caffrey and Perm would have to followon their return to the vesFel. On her way, she passed a lace called the stockyard, about 250 yards from the house. She was there overtaken by Perm, CifTiey thus having been left aione with the dead man. At this time, Mrs Taylor was seen from the lull by the two girls, and they would say thai Perm's attitude and demeanour towards her were of a thea'ening character. Mr.* Taylor vcill tell us that Perm said to her that if ."-he did not shut her mouth bo would blow her brains out. Caffrey then left the house, and calling to Perm to " come away " They left the old woman afc the stockyard, and returned to the cutter. We shall not be able to disclose with so much certainty, as we would desire which of the men it- actually w&p who fired the fatal s-hof, but at this stage it will not be necessary to show which man fired the shot. It will bequitesuflicientf or our purposes at present to show tbat they both were there, and that they were both concerned in causing Taylors death. If this can be stiGwn, then each of the piisoneis is equally guilty of murder. It is not incumbent on the prosecution to show who fi>ed the fatal shot. We now fall back again on the statement of the girl, who will tell us that Caffrey waß the first, to get back to the cutter. The dingj" I may Fay, had floated away during their absence, and they had to wade into the w ater or swim to get to her. The girl Graham says that when Caffrey came on board the cutter again he held up one of the revolvers, covered with blood, at the same time saying, " Look here, Gracie! ("Gracie" was the name by which the girl was known to the man.) She paid, "Oh, Jack, what have you done ?" and his reply was " I have put the b y old cuss Taylor out of the road." His clothes showed what had happenep. Hi* trousers were covered with blood, which glistened in the bright sunshine of the morning. His coat and hands, and also a new black hat, which he wore for the first time that morning, were also covered with blood The girl Graham says she asked C<tffrey now it wast hat the blood had gob on his hat, and he explained that he *ell off into a pool of blood and got covered in that way It appears that he then asked her for a black flag. This flag was produced at the convivial party on the cutter on the previous evening, and the question wa^ then asked what it was required for, and Caffrev replied that it waa for "the death of old Tueky, this being a nickname frequently applied to Taylor. The girl will aleo tell you that at the time of the Rangiroto incident, sho hemmed the flag for Caffrey John Caffrey nsked her for the flag, and she went below to search for if ; but she will tell you that she felt some reluctance in having anything to do with it, and did not pass it up. Caffrey then came below, and, taking it on deck, ran [it up to the mast hoad. While she was looking for the black flae, the other revolver waa placed on the cabin tnble, but she does not know by whom it was placed there. This accounted for the three revolvers. Two were on board, and the other was found in the house. This latter proved, on examination to be of a faulty nature. The girl Bays that, when the practice took place on the way down towards the Great Barrier one of the revolvers were faulty, and missed fire nearly every time. One of the other revolvers was found in the possession of Caffrey, a»d the other on Perm at the time of their arrest. The girl pays that she examined the revolvers critically, and found, as regards one, that four shots had been discharged, leaving only one remaining. This, she says, was Caffrey's. So far as Perm's revolver was concerned, only one shot had been fired out of ifc. But with regard to that, we are not in a position to say what shots were tired on their way across the island. When Perm threatened Mrs Taylor, we are told he was in the act of loading his revolver with cartridges from his pocket. Thu girl then says we immediately proceeded to hoist the anchor, and steered away out of the harbour, going out of the harbour, they passed anoyster boat called the Tairua, and Caffrey

b»Hed some companions on board. They went into Tryphena Bay and got some water, and while beating about* got the ssaHa in order and left the island. The girl will tell you that while on the cutter, a quarrel arose, during which Caffrey told Perm that he (Peen) placed too much confidence in the girl, and that she would surely betray him. \)a another occasion, says the girl, "Caffrey came intothe cabiß, not knowing she «a* there, and said, "Oh, why did I kill that old cuss." This was •aid in such a manner as to show that Caff*ey was fretting about the affair. On another occasion be started up from the deck, saying, "Old Tuskey (or Taylor), he is getting pretty stiff by this time '' She also says the object, so far as ■he understood it, was to carry off the two girls, Mrs Seymour and Lizzie Taylor. If necessary, weapons were to have been used, and life to be taken. It is necessary to show this, because efforts will be made to show that there was no intention to do more than tie the man Taylor. The evidence will show, amongst other things, that it was understood that the girls were to be carried off at all hazards, and that in the event of any opposition being offered by the brothers or any of the relatives, the weapons were to be used. Those are shortly the facts of the case, and I will not proceed to call the witnesses. The first will be Grace Graham, the girl who was with the prisoners in the cutter.

GRACE GRAHAMS STORY. Grace Graham was then brought into court from the prisoners room. Ac she entered thw court she seemed ill at the case, and her eyes moved backwards and forwards restlessly. Upon entering the dock she explained to the questions in a vdry low voice, but afterwards she appeared to be made at ease and answered clearly. Grace Graham, alias Grace Cleary, deposed that she knew the prisoners. She went a voyage with them on the 27th of May last to the Great Barrier. The vessel went to three places— Blind Bay, Tryphena, and Haratonga. The voyage occupied about a fortnight After that they returned to Auckland. There * ere no another persons Oa board the cutter on the first trip. She remembered that they pot into the Auckland harbour on Saturday night. On the following Thureday, 17th ot June, she was on shore and came on board again at a quarter to ten o'clock in the evening. Harry Perm was with her. Another young fellow came over in the dingy. The cutter was lying at the Railway wharf. The young man in the dingy put her and Perm on board the cutter. He then went away towards tbe Queen-street Wharf. He brought Jack Jack (Caff ey), and three other youog chaps with him. They a!l came on board the cutter. They stayed on board drinking in the cabin They were drinking rum and brandy. She was in the cabin and heard them talking abou*" what they were going to do. She went on deck for a few minutes, and when she went back they were looking at a flag. It was a black flae. She asked Caffiey what the flig was fur. He replied it was for the death of old "Tueky." She knew that meant Mr Taylor, aa «he had heard Jack call him by that name before. She heard CUifrey say he was going to choot Taylor. That was at the same time a fellow called Jim asked Caffrey to put the girl out of the way lor him. The girl meant Mrs Seymour. He said he had been in tow with the girl, and that she had fooled him The talk did not continue very long. It was all eairi seriously. Tv\o of the men were sitting near Jack and two beside her. At that time Harry was up on deck. Caffr y f-aid he would go afhore and try to get the girls, and if he did not get them, there would be come shooting done He said he would go ashore and try to get; the girl, and take some cord with him to tie tne father up He said he would cut a piece either out of his ear or his tongue so that he coulrt tell no tales. He said it he could get the gin he would try" and force her down to the boat, and it she would not go he -would shoot her. At this stage of the proceedings Mr Napier objected to any further questions being put to the witness until her po-ition had been clearly defined, It waa known that she came into Court with a charge hanging over her of being an accessory after the fact,a charge for which fhe might be prosecuted, and yet she was aeked to answer questions by the Crow n Prosecutor, which might have the effect of criminating herself. He must really ask the Bench to warn the witness tuat she Deed not reply to questions which might criminate her, otherwisetheCrownProsecutor would continue to extort evidence from the girl, who was evidently of an immature mind and not acquainted with the grave results that might pottibly happen to nertelf from ?omo of her answers. Mr Williamaoc objected to Mr Napiev Bpeaking for the girl. Mr Napier wae too ready to fcatter broadcast eha'ges of wrong conduct. The girl was perfectly aware of what she was doing, and the Bench would 866 that nothing improper occured. Mr Napier said he was retained for the girl's defence, and it wad his duty to protect her from these unwarrantable attempts to extort evidence from her. Until tbt charge of being an accespory after the fact waß I withdrawn, he contended that the Crown Prosecutor had no right to question her in that manner. Questions were being put to her to which she ought not to be expected to reply unless that charge were withdrawn. He muat ask the Bench to 'Caution tbe witnesp. Mr Williamson said that he had no objection to the witness being cautioned ir the usual way, but at the pame time he might state that she fully knew what ehe wao about, and he contended that no improper questions had yet been aeked. Mr Palmer Jack?on : " Oh, but there han. A great number of very important questions have been asked." Hie Worship : " That has nothing to do with you, Mr Palmer; you are not appearing "for the girl." His Worship then duly cautioned the prisoner that she was not neceenit-ited to reply to any question that might criminate herself. The witness then continued her •evidence as follows : —Nothing else of importance was then eaid aa the men commenced drinking again. Caffrey was under tbe influence of liquf r that evening. Perm had also had som& drink. Later on Harry was playing the accordian, and the others were singing After that they got the Bails and tho anchors up, the other men helping them. It was about a quaiter to 11 or 11 o'clock when that was dono. The men then went away to their own boats, leaving me and Caffrey and Porm oa board the cutter. As it was then 1 o'clock, Mr Williamson intimated that the evidence bad reached a stage at which the Court might adjourn, which was accordingly done. Tbe case was remanded at two o clock. Grace Graham, under examination by Mr Williamson, said : I know Mr Napier, the solicitor. He has Been me since the adjournment twice. Mr Williamson : Well we have got to Iho point. When the vessel got under weigh, and went down the harbour, who steered the vessel ?

The witness : I shan't answer the question. . Mr Williamson : Why not. The girl: Because it may punish m« in the case you have against me, Mr Williamson : Is that the only reason you can give T The girl . Yes, sir. Mr Williamson : Well, you have been misled in the interview with Mr Napier. Mr Napier : You have no right to <*ay that. The girl has been well advised if she has been advised at all. Mr Williamson (to the girl) : Is that answer you gave the result of your interview with Mr Napier. The girl : Others told me as well as he. Mr Napier objected to the question, and submitted that the reason given was sufficient. He had ample authority for it. It was clear law that a. witness had a right to refuse to answer any question which he thought might prejudice her in any criminal case to be prepared against her. If the prosecution did not intend to pro ceed with the charee against the girl, they should withdraw it, and then she would be free to answer any qu stions without being able to claim the protection of the Court. Mr Williamson said it was his it was his instruction to withdraw the charge against the girl at the proper time She was not charged at the present time, the ca«e being simply one against Fenn and Caffrey. He held that the Court and not the witness was the proper judge whether tho question should be put, and submitted that the question was not one likely to implicate the girl in any way. If the charge were witadrawn at once, he feared that the girl, who was the paramour of one of the prisoners, would claim the protection accorded to a wife of not being compelled to give evidence against a husband. , . . „ The examination then proceeded, Mr Williamson reputing the question, and the witnes* answering it without objection. Perm steertd the cutter down the harbour. She was on deck with him. Caffrey was in his bunk asleep There was only alight wind They did not go around the North Head and down Kangitoto Channel, but straight on. She stayed oh deck till about 5 o'clock. Harry remained with hor. I' was daylight then. Harry called Jack, who answered that he was coming üb, Harry and she went down below before Jack come up. Harry turned into hib bunk and she lay down on a locker and went to sleep. Caffrey went off to sleep too, and there vvas no one in charge of the vessel Jack calling Harry arouped me, and wake me up. 1 then found that we were on Rangitoto rocks. Efforts were made to get the vessel off Caffrey and Harry were chopping a rock away. Two men came on board afterwards, but did not help. She did not know who those two men were, because ehe did nor, sre them. She remained down below. Caffrey told her to do so. They did not et>t the vessel off till about six o'clock in the oveniu". It was about eleven o'clock when Hhe woke up. At six o'clock in the evening, the captain of the Lagoon, a ecow, helped tln;m rihe believed his name was Wi'tliams There was a young fellow on board his boat. At this stage of the proceedings paper and pencil were supplied to Perm, as he wi«hoit to mako notes of the evidence ad the cat>e proceeded. Examination continued : After Captain Williams had loft two young men c&mo fro tne quarry. She knew Mr Williams and hie boy. Caffrey had some drink in the day-time after waking up, but Harry hnd none. There was no talk then of what they were going to do, and the other fellow« did not know anything about it They succeeded in getting the vessol off them In the afternoon we saw a boat coming down and thought it was a police boat This was while we were at the rocke. The*e m :e yomo men in it, and Caffrey said he thought it was the police boat. He had reason to fear the police, but, because he thruaht Mr flenderaon was coming in u. I hoard Harry tell Caff ey that Mr Henderson eaid they were on no account to take the boat. I heard Harry tell Caffiey this on the boat before wo lilted away. When we thought it was tne police biat, preparations wore made for r^ceiviu^ them. Caffrey loaded the revolvers, which were got from under his pillow in hi? bunk. There were three of them. They were new revolvers, and I had not peen them on board before. I did not know when the revolvers came on bo ml :ind who brought them They were not on board on my first trip Thcie wa3 no ammunition or anythiug on board then. When Caffrey loaded hia revolvers, he said if they (meaning the people in the boat) came on board they would not go off alive. The revolvers were Ijin^ on the cabin table ready Harry w,t- up on deck at this time, and did not ray anything to that. The boat did not nmo up to the cutter, but went past. Th-.ro was a woman in it. I did not hear anything said as to where the revolve r» came from. After we got the vessel off tl.e rocks we eailed away for Tryphena. 1 «;i; on deck during tho voyage. The men took turn about to steer the cutter. I know an island called called tho Watching. Wo passed that just before we entered Tryphena. I remember that at* we passed the Watchman, Caffrey rti-rhrirged the revolvers. He discharged ail of them, firing six ehota out of each. The practice was not eatisfaotory, ono of the revolvers was faulty, it u*.ed to miss fire, but went off sometimes. Tbid practice took place on the deck, rl irry was on deck at the time, and he and I were drinking coffee together. Harry was steering the vessel. After Caffroy had discharged the revolvers, ho put them down in the cabin. We sailed on into Tryphena Bay. Ido not know in si hit direction the wind was, but it was burning into the bay, and we had a fair wind. I know the place where we .-mr-hored. I do not know whether I could point it out on the map ; I never hoard the name Sandy Bay before. (The uitnefcp pointed out the spot where they cnttved the Bay on the map produced.) Wo did not go into the Bay, but anchored cii* the point (indicated.) There was nrjoLhor vessel there when we got round —a '•mill cutter, named the Tairua. It wak between half-past three and four o'clock in the morning when we got there. It vs-tt<s a wild night, and there was much wind. The first thing they did after we dropped anchor waf to pull the sails down. Thov did not tie them up, but left tltGm loose — Caffrey said so as to bo roady to get out of the hay quickly aftor they had done the murder. M r \* illiamson : Was anything said about doing the murder then ? The witness : Yes ; Caffrey said he would try and get the girls, and if he could not get them he would Bhoot the father for levonge. Before they went ashore Caffrey loaded the revolvers in the cabin. 1 saw him, Harry was not there then ; he was up on deck. Mr Williamson : Was there any drink then ? Yes, Caffrey had some brandy. According to what they give in tho hotel, it would be about three glasses. It was all brandy, without any water. He drank it out of an enamelled mug. lam sure Harry did not have any. I saw Caffrey put tho revolvers in his pocket. He did not give

I "I I ' any to Perm; ■ I saw him when he was going into the dingy with a revolver in eaob of his hip pockets, and one in each of hie breaet pockets. had the dingy, which was towing behind the cutter, and got into it. This was at ten minutes to 5 in the morning. She remembered the time so accurately, because she saw the time by the clock which was in the chair. Caftrey and Harry had knifes with them before they left the vessel. They were sheath knives, worn on them with a bait and Bheath. They were new knive°. I know> that, hacnupe I Baw them when they came on board before thoy left Auckland. Harry was not in the habit of carrying a sheath knife in that way. They also took some cords with them. Caffrey had them in his pocket. They were pieces of the ralyards. I knew what they were going to do with the cords, because Caffrey told me. He told me if he geb the girls he would bind the father. I had called Harry on one side just before that. This was" on the deck. They got into the dingy and pulled ashore, leaving me on board by myself. I could ccc what they did when they got ashore. The vessel was not very far fom the shore. She waa a little more than 100 yards away. From where the vessel was, I could not see any house. Between where I was and the houpe there was a big point which prevented me from seeing by a big point, I mean a point of land on a hill When they got ashore they f istened the dingy to a rock, and then went up the hill. They did not go right up to the top of it, but stopped after they had gone a little way. They stood for awhile, and eeemed to be talking. They did not remiin talking long. I saw Harry go over the point, and then Caffrey went straight up the hill They waited about a quarter of-an-hour before they started, but 1 do not know why they waited. I knew where they wero going then. Before they left the vessel, I heard come balk between them as to butter Harry bold OafFrey that he would go up to Taylors and ask for a couple of pounds of butter, Oaffrey said ail right. He wan to get the »irls while the father was getting the butter. Bhe saw them separate, Harry going over the .point, and Caffrey £oing round the hill Perm walked rathei quickly. It was not until balt-paM; eight bhat I caw them again. All the time they were away I was sitting with my arms around the dog, until about a, quarter of an hour before they came back, when I went to sleep in the locker, [t waB a wild night, and I was afraid the cutter would drae ncr anchor. After that [ went and cleaned the cabin because I expected the girls. I was asleep when they came on board at a quarier to eight. I went on deck when they came back. Cafftvy was the fhst to come on deck. I noticed something strange about Caffrey whon he stepped on the deck that morning. He had blood on the fronta of his trousers on both legs, and his hat and sleeves of his coat — the right d'-ee^e Ho had a revolver in his hand I would know itngain if I saw it (revolvers produced) This (examining them carefully) is the ono he had when be came on board. I have had some practice with these weapons, firing them off in JSew South Wales That revolver was coy ered with blood I examined it carefully at the time. There was blood on both sides of the barrel, up this groove, and on the handle. The blood was fresh. Caffrey had a blue Ferge trousers and coat, and a black felt hat It was not an old hat, but a new one Caffrey said the blood on the hat was Taylors blood. When he stepped on the deck with the revolver in his hand he ehowed ifc to me. I said, "Oh! Jack, what have you done?". Ho eaid he had put the b y old cusa out of the road. Perm here smiled at the witness, and she smiled in return Firat I asked him where the girls were, and he said they had jumped out ol the bodroom window. Then I asked him if harry had anything to do with it, and the words he eaid to me when he came on deck were, " I tjld him to fire at the man Taylor, bub the b — y fool fired at a picture high up." The blood on Caffrey's right arm was above the elbow, and looked as if Mi Taylor had caught hold of him. (Mr Williamson : You mean ad if a bloody band had caught hold of him. He also said that Taylor had hold of him.) Yes ; I asked him about that, and ho eaid it was when Taylor caught hold of him there after he had shot him. He did not say anything about Hairy beyond what f have told you I looked at the revolver when he gave it to me. I turned the barrel round and looked at it Four thots had been fired out ot it, and the empty cartridge caees remained in the chambers. I went to put the revolver down in the cabin, because Jack asked me to put it down below. I put it down under the pillow in Caffrey's bunk. Harry was up on deck during this time, and was fastening the dingy to the side of the cutter. There was nothing unusual about him. I called him to me, and lookod at his trousers his coat and his hat There were no signs of blood on him. He had his belt on inside hia coat, and Caffrey wore his the &arne way. The sheath could not be seen unless you pulled up the coat. I did not see any revolver with Harry. I went downstairs to put away the revolver, and Jack asked me to band up the black flag. It was kept in the head of Jacks' bunk, I did not get it. I looked to see where it was, and saw it, but I did not hand it to him. I did not like to hand it to him. I thought if we were caught I would get into trouble for meddling with the flag (black flag producod). It i« not ull theie. That is only half of it. It has been joined down the centre, and I hemed the othei half of it. I sewed it when we wen on Bangitoto. That was the stuff tha was produced in the cabin, when Oaffre^ said it was for the death of old Tuskey I did not hand it to him, and he came fo it. Ho went to the mast, and hauled it uj to the masthead. At the same time h called out to two chaps on tho Tairua. W were within hailing distance of the other cut ter then. He sang out to tho other fellowe "Hullo Jack Austen and Waitemata pirate. These were the names of two of the men oi the other cutter. After they came back I saw another revolver on tho cabin table Ido not know how it came there. It wa not there while they wero away I did no ccc anyone go into the cabin with it, but i might have been placed there while I wa looking for the flag. I could nob hay heard them, as they took their boot off when they came on board agair The three revolvers were then placed befor the witness, who at once identified th revolver which she had seen on th cabin table. It was a British bulldog I have seen that Binae. I had ifc over i New South Wales, and it was taken frot me when I was arrested. Thia (picking u one) is the faulty one I last saw i when Caffrey went ashore at Taylors He marked it by putting the crot (pointed»out) on it before they went ashore When Caffrey' put the cross on it, he sai that if old Taylor got it he would know i again. That revolver did not come bac to the cutter. I asked Caffrey what ha become of it, and he said the boy ha wrested it out of his hand. Caffrey a} peared pleased and in a good humour. Mr Napier said he did not wish to en barrass or interrupt th? Court, but it muf be manifest to the Court that for the la!

5 or 6 minutes his friend bad been leading the witness. : There was no necessity for this, because she gave her evidence very clearly. It was not right or fair that the counsel for the prosecution should 1 lead the witness as he had been doing. The queetion relative to the pistol which was a mest material one had been put in this form : The pistol did not come on board again did it ? lie objected to such a style of examination. Mr Williamson said she had already stated that, and the reply was not in any way material to the case. Evidence continued : They then pulled up the anchors and got the sails up. Jack gave me the wheel until they gob the sail up, when he took it. He steered straight out of the bay. As we were sailing out of the bay wo Baw Mrs Taylor, a boy, and the two girls going across the bay in a dingy. It was then blowing a good brerze. Caffrey wanted to go after the girls, but they did not go because Harry told him not to go. Harry said he would not go. Caffrey said " All right." We did not land again until about two hours after. I think Caffrey said it was Sandford Bay, I am not quite sure. Harry and I went ashore and get a cask of water and some wood. We remained beating about there while Caffrey fixed up some part of the mainsail. Then we turned and went stiaight away out from the Barrier. It was said by Caffroy relative to our destination that we were going to ateer for America. I don't know if he had any knowledge of the American coast, or if he had boen seeking such knowledge. He had a chart on board to assist him. It was a chart of America. I saw it and looked at it. I Baw it on the first trip I was away with the cutter. I then saw Caffrey looking at it down in the cabin. The vessel was then at Tryphena. He told me that he had bought it at come shop in Queen street. Harry did not have a look at it, and never used to trouble about it. Respecting the chances of being pursued, Caffrey eaid he expected the Stella or the Hawk would be about after u-i, and said if they did, he did not think the men would come after us. The reason he gave for this was that he was liked on both the boats. After we left the Barrier that day, I asked Jack if Taylor was really killed, and he said, " You would not like to be as stiff as he is." I don't remember if anything else was said then. Once, subsequently, reference was made to what happened aehore, When we were about a week out, Harry and I were quarrelling, and I said to Harry, " You had better not trust me too

much." Caffrey was in the hold, and we thought he wa3 asleep He (Caffrey) said, " No, Grace ; you can't trust a woman at all," and to Harry ho suid that he had trusted me too much, and that I would split on him. After wo had been hove to, and some time about, Caffrey used to jump about when he was at the wheel, and gay that old Tuskey was pretty stiff by that time. He did not cay anything elee about the murder, but he did say that unless he was found out he would not be taken alive. One night when I waa lying in the bunk with my eyes shut, and he thought I was asleep, I beaid him say, "Oh why did I kill the old cuss ?" Ho seemed to say this very downheartedly. I heard Caffrey make reference to the girls after we left the Barrier. He said if he had got the girls he would have made Lizzie (Mrs Seymour) a slavey, and would sleep with Janie, and as soon as we sighted laud, he would throvr the two oveiboaid. He told Harry and I about that. When we were at sea, the top sides of the vessel which had been white wero painted black. That waB when we got near the tropice. The name was also painted off the vessel's bows, and the five last letters of "Sovereign"— that was "reign" — left on the stern. The rest were painted out. The words " of the Seas" wero also painted out. When they came back to the cutter their clothes were wet. Caffrey was wet over his middle, and Harry jubt about to hi« middle. I know how that happened. They had to swim off to the dingy. Perm had light trousers on, the coat which be wears now, and a Tam-o'-Shanter hat. of red colour. I know that Caffrey had a feeling against Taylor, fie used to talk about him. He said he was engaged to Taylors daug-hter, and that phe c&tne up to be married to him, when Taylor put ie off. He got drinking, ahel got run in over it ; and while he was in pnaon her father got round her to many Seymour. I also heard threats by Caffrey againat Taylor. I heard him say he would shoot Taylor the first chance he got. Harry knew before we left what Caffrey ntouded to do. Harry told me that Caffrey had got him drunk, and that he had promised to go with him down to Taylors to get tne girls. Perm had about two glasses to drink the night we were at the Railway Wharf, but he was pretty well sober. I was net ap the street with him, and do not know if he had ony there. I could not tell what condition he was in unless he was very drunk. This concluded the examination-in- chief, and the Court was adjourned. The Girl Cleary Before the Court. . Mr Napier then asked that the girl should now be formally charged upon the information that was before the Court. She had been remanded until that day, and he wished the matter dealt with.

The girl then loft the witness box, and Mr Williamson questioned her as to whether she had anywhere to go. Miss Davey, Matron of the Prison 1 Gate Brigade, stepped forward and offered to take charge of the girl, but she declined to go. Mr Napier then called the girl to etand behind him. Mr Williamson said he did not know what to suggest. He was quite prepared to go on with the case the next day. And he would rather that her cross examination were to proceed at once in preferrence to her being allowed to get into improper company, aa he heard that she had no homo to go to. For that reason he would wish that the cross examination should go eti'aight on. Mr Napier suggested that the case should be adjourned. He had not yet been afforded an opportunity to see the witnesses. Mr Williamson pointed out that hia friend had interviewed the girl in the gaol. Mr Napier said that he had' certainlyinterviewed the girl, but there was Bush an. unpleasant odour in the room that he could not remain very long. There was a very bad odour when he was there. Mr Williamson said that he had aleo seen the girl when in prison,and he thought! it was particularly sweet. The girl eaid Mr Napier saw her when, she was in the cells. Sarah Elizabeth Cleary, alias Grace Graham, was then charged with having received, harboured, and maintained John Caffrey and Henry Albert Perm, well knowing that the said John Caffrey and Henry Albert Perm had feloniously, wilfully, and with malice aforethought killed and murdered one Robert Taylor. Mr Napier said he appeared for the accused. Mr Williamson said he regretted verymuch having to withdraw the case, as the girl would, it appored, be cast upon the streets. Mi3s Davey had offered to take care of her, but she declined to go. Mr Napier said there was no necessity to take all this care, as tho gill's friends would look after her. Ho might remark that the girl had been arrested and brought over to Auckland, and kept in prison for a week, merely .in order that the Crown Prosecutor should get that statement <r<nn her that had been given in Court. H« had previously said that such was the case, but he had been informed that he wa? making reckless statements. M r Williamson remarked that Mr Napior f g_

statement then was equally wild and reckleBß. His Worship said that there was no need to go into the matter. As the charge was withdrawn, the prisoner was at liberty to go. Mr Williamson suggested that the girl should be cautioned that unloes Ehe was careful she might still get into trouble if she returned back to her oldcour&e of lifo. The prisoners Caffrey and Perm were then, remanded until 10.15 o'^ock this morning, the Crown Prosecutor being anxious to get: through with the inquiry by Wednesday evening. Auckland, November 6. Another large crowd assembled ia the neighbourhood ot the Police Station this morning:, but the fact that the number of spectators wat not nearly co large us usual showed that the curiosity of thousands of people who wore anxious to get a glimpse of the principals in the case had been satisfied. There was again a large crowd of spectators iv Court. The case was called at 10.30 a.m., wnen the priponers took their stand in the dock. Counsel appeared as before. Grace Graham was recalled for crossexamination. In reply to Mr Williamson, she said Caffrey told her he bought the paintin Queen street, with which he painted out the name of the vessel, but she did not know at -what shop. Mr Napier then commenced the crossexamination of the girl Graham. Aftersome questions relating to the voyage dowa to the GreuS Barrier, he said : Now, we get down to Trypheno. When, you arrived at the harbour there, you say the sails were pulled down, but left loose, so aB they could get away quickly after they had done the murder. Was that what you said?— l said after "he" had done the murder". Where was -Penn when Caffrey madethafc observation ? —Ho was on deck, and Caffrey was in the cabin. Was it to you Caffrey said this ? — Yes. Was Caffrey sober then ? — Yes. After the sails were dropped did not you and Caffrey have a conversation about the whole matter— about going and getting the girls?— Yes. Where was Perm at this time ? — He waa fixing the anchor. You said yeste-day that at this timer Caffrey said he would try and get the girls, and if he could not get them, he would sheot the father for revenge. Did Pena hear this?— No. Did Perm at any time after your arrival at Tryphena that morning take any drink t —No. Mr Napier : Just before your arrival at Tryphena, did you hear any conversation I between Peon and Caffrey about their - arrangements?— Yes. I What was it? -Penn told Caffrey he i would go and get some butter, and in the meantime he was to go and get the girls.

Did you hear Perm say anything else?— He eaid he did not mind helping him to get the girls, but he would not hurt anybody. Now, you told us the other ,day that Caffrey told you that he would either cut a piece out of Taylors ear or tongue if he did not get the girl. Did you tell Porm this ?—? — Ye? ; I told him when I went below. And what did Perm say to you ? - He said ""Never mind,Gracie;l'llgo ashore and warn Taylor and tell him to get hia girls away quickly, as Caffrey is coming." Mr Palmer : Was Caffrey present then ? He waa on deck. Mr Palmer objected to tho question, but Hiß Worship ruled that it could be put. Did Perm say anything else to you on the «amo matter when ho was getting into the cutter ? —He said he did not mind helping with the girls, but he would do no shooting. Towards the end of your examination yesterday, you said you knew Caffrey had feeling against Taylor, and that he said he would shoot Taylor the first chance he got. When was this ? — That was the first trip I was with the cutter. Mr Palmer : Was Caffrey there then ?—? — Yes ; he told me that. Mr Napier : Where was Perm then ? — He was down in the cabin. Nearly the last answer you gave last night was that Harry knew after Caffrey got him on board the vessel what they were going to do. When was that? — On tho second trip. He did not know anything about it the first trip. What do you mean that Harry knew ?—? — That they were going to get the girls. Was that all he knew ?— Yes. Do you know anything about the sort of feeling that existed between Caffrey and 3Penn? How was Perm treated? — He was treated very well. Did you examine Perm's clothes and hands when he came back to the cutter — Yes. And would you have seen blood if there ■was any on them ?— Yes, I would. And there was none ? — No. "Were you present on the cutter on the afternoon before she left Auckland, when ! Mr Henderson called Perm ashore ? — I was \ on board all day. Were you near enough to hear what was j said?— ]No, I only know what Penu told Caffrey. What was that?— That Mr Henderson said that he was on no account to take the boat away. You were in company with Perm, I think, in Australia?— Yes. I think you were with him when he was ! apprehended ? - Yes. j Can you tell us how he was apprehended ? | — Yes. We saw the constable coming down, and I told him there wa? a mounted man, and to go and give himself up. He said he would do as I told him. Then he went out, and met the constable. The constable asked him where he was fjoing. What did he say ?— To Brisbane, to give himself up. The constable asked him hi? name, and he told him Harry Perm. Did he say anything else ?— He said ho was in that murder that was done in New Zealand. He said " in " ?-Yes. Do you remember what his words were ? — Yea; he said he was "in" the murder that was done in New Zealand that Jack Caffrey was "in." Did he say nothing but that he was " in " it? —He just said he waa "in "it. The constable said he would have to arrest u=. Did Perm not say "implicated in ?" Mr Williameon objected to Mr Napier suggesting answers. Looking at the position of the witness and the prisoner, it was very improper to act as he was doing. Mr Smith ruled that the counsel must not suggest answers. Mr Napier held that in cross-examination he waß justified in acting a& he did. Mr Smith : But, in cross-examination, you must not suggest answers to witnesses Mr Williamson said it was perfectly e'ear that counsel, in cross-examination, ha j no right to put answers into the witnesses' mouth. Mr Napier : Yes, " worda into witnesses' mouths." Mr Williamson : Well, that is what you did. J Mr Napier held that he only put leading questions, which he waa justified in doing. This was the rule. Mr Smith held that there were limits to every rule, and sustained Mr "Williamsons objectijH. Cros-s-examination continued. What happened then? Was there any further conversation between the constable and vos ? — The constable asked my name. Did Perm say anything more? — He only told him my name. Mr Napier : That is all I wish to aak. Mr Palmer's Cross-Examination. Mr Palmer : What was the time you left Queen-street on the Thursday night on which they left for the Barrier vlie last time? — When I left Queen-street it was about a quarter to ten. Did you know you were going to the Barrier that night ? — Ye?. What did Perm cay to you about going to the Barrier?— He told me we were juat going down to the Barrier. What did you say to him ?— I a?ked him where he waa going to,and he said to Blind Bay. What time was it during the day that Perm went ashore iv the boat to bee this man ? -About three o'clock. When did Perm tell Caffroy that he wa& not to take the boat out again ? — When we "went up the street to see Caffrey. What time was that '-Between half-past seven and eight. Then you knew between half-pact seven and eight that the boat was not to leave the harbour ? — Yes, sir. And Perm also knew that then ? — Yes. How did you know you were going to Blind Bay, then ?-Caffrey told me on the previous Monday that he wa3 eoine to Blind Bay. & Did he tell you at any other time that he •was going to Blind Bay ?— Yes, he told me on Wednesday, Did not tell you on Thursday?— No, I did not see him much on Thursday. You say that during the conversation after you were put on board, Perm was on deck?— Yes. What was he actually doing ; lifting the anchor?— No, loosening tfao stay-sail. He came down once, but we were not talking about it then. He just came down straight and had a drink, and then went up again. What did he drink ?-Rum. Did he have anything to drink up town ? — I was not with him all the time, and do not know. When you heard them 3peak about killing old Tusky, did you protest at all ?-~No, I just listened to what they said. Did you agree with what they said ?— No, 1 just listened. Now, although you heard of all this killing to be done at the Barrier, you were quite willing to go with them ?— Yes. You say it was agreed to tie Taylor up when they got to the Barrier ?— Yes. You say it was agreed to kill Taylor ? Mr Napier : She did not say that. Witness : Caffrey said if he did not get the girls. Mr Palmer: Where was Perm when Caffrey was loading the revolver ? — He was on deck. Did he see him ?— No, he did not.

1 ". jtf t { t't t-rr—i . Now, Harry was on deck at .Auckland, when you were going down, at the time of both conversations, 'and when, you vrere at Tryphena, was he on deck all these times 1 — Yea, he was. ' < Did Hairy fire, off any revolvers when you were passing the Watchman ? — No, he did not. ■ . .; Did Caffrey take aim ?— No, he put the revolver over the bulwarks and fired. When you anchored at the Barrier, were you far from the other cutter? — No. Could they have heard you if you had called out? — Yes. It appears Caffrey was very selfish. He took the three revolvers and did not give Porm any ? —Yes. I did not see him with any. Did Perm express any desire to warn Taylor ? —Yes, I told him to do so. Did you wish to warn Taylor ? — Yes. I did not wish him to be hurt. Would you have warned Taylor?— Yes; if I could. Did you moke any attempt to warn Taylor ?— I could not get ashore. If I could I would. Did you try to ' get ashore? — I asked Caffrey to let me You say they could have hoard you on the j other cutter. Was there anyone moving about on board ? — No j Did you call out to the other cutter?— No. You say the revolver was put on the cabin table while you were looking for the flag? -Yes. Is it a wide cabin ?— No. Is the table far from Jack's bunk, where the flag was kept? — You can reach it with your hand. You were standing at Jack's bunk when the revolver was placed on the table ? — Yes. Would they have to comedown any stairs to get into the cabin ? — Two. You said no one came into the cabin ?— No, I did not. But when you looked round the revolver appeared on the table ? — Yes. I believe you are very fond of Caffrey, are you not?— Yes (with a laugh). Are you really?— Ne, I am not. I hate him. Why do you hate htm ? — He quarrelled with me two or three times. la that why you hate him ? — No, it is what he used to say to me. Now, instead of hating him, did you not pay that if you could help it he should never be hung? — Yes, that was when we went away. Have you not since Baid the opposite ?—? — Yes. Did you pay it would not be your fault if he did not dangle ? — No, I eaid it would not be my fault if he was not caught. Did you say it would not be your fault if ho was not hung ? — No, I did not. Did you use any expieseion like that? — No, I did not. Now, when they were sailing out of the bay in Tryphena Harbour who wa° steering the boat?— l had the wheel while they were fixing the sails. What sail were they fixing ? — Tho staysail was not up. Was the vessel under way before the staysail was up? -Yes. As soon as tbe staysail was up, who took the wheel ? — Caffrey. Did Caffrey keep at the wheel till you were out of the harbour ?— Yes, after the stayeail was up. I stayed on deck. I did not go down in the cabin till we were out of the bay. Then you did not go into the cabin for the flag at all? — No, I went to put the re volver down. Whose revolver was that? — Caffrey's. Ho gave it to me to put down below. It was before the boat got under weigh that I went down into the cabin. Then you were not down in the cabin when Caffrey asked you to hand up the black flag? — Yes, but that was before mo got under way. What time was it when you passed the Watchman Island. - Between eleven and twelve o'clock at night. Did you see Caffrey cutting the halyard with his knife, and did he say that he would take that knife ashore ?— He said he would take it aahore to cut the cords to bind Mi Taylor, as he bad too much cord. The Girl Re-Examined. Re-examination by the Crown Solicitor : When Caffrey came on to the vessel again, while she was on the rocks ab Rangitoto, he said, " Jesup Christ, Perm, here are the bobbies." He then went below to load the revolvers. He left them on the cabin table, and it was ■when he came on deck again that he paid if the police came aboard he was sure they would not leave alive Perm did not hear him say that. He was looking at the approaching boat through the glasses, and after watching it for some time he said be thought it was tho police men. [At this stage, Caffrey, on Mr Palmcr'3 application, was allowed pencil and paper.] It was just after this that Caffroy made use of bis threat about the police. Perm and Caffrey armed themselves with their sheath knives before going ashore at Tryphena. Perm knew bpfore wo Uft Auckland of Caffrey's indention to carry off the girls. At the time of the arrest, the arresting constable was mounted and in private drees, but 1 knew by bis but that he belonged to the police. Harry told Oaffrey twice of Mr Hendersons message, ' and the firat time he said that he would let Mr Henderson eeo that he was determined to have the cutter. When Harry repeated the message at Rangitoto Caffrey repliei that ho should take tho boat. I left them just then, and don't know what Harry said fn reply. My feelings towards C»iffrey would not lead mo to tell nn untruth against him, and what I have said about this transaction is substantially true. Mr Pilmer complained of the leading nature of the questions. Mr Williamson denied tbat his questions were of a leading character. As this concluded the re-3xamination, the deposition was read over to the witness, who was requested to pay particular attention to it. Quite a number of corrections had to be made, and the Crown Solicitor took tho opportunity to request the aseistant clerk to be more caretul in taking down the evidenco, as two lives were depending upon ita accuracy. The prisoners listened with rapt attention, Caffrey standing bolt upright with his hands interlocked in front of him, and with head poised in a listening attitude, and Perm leaning forward with his left arm on the front of the clock, and Ills right hand to his cheek • hia eyes fixed upon tbe assistant clerk, and occasionally glancing at the girl. The Girl Graham Bound. Mj Williamson said that he should like to have the girl bound over in substantial seourities »o give evidence at the forthcoming criminal sessions of the Supreme Court. Of course he had* reason for the application, and . the girl had informed both himself and Mr Reston that it was not hert intention to remain in Auckland. Unless she could satisfy the Court that it was not her intention to leave the place, he must press his application. Mr Is spier said that he must decidedly object to any such course being adopted. Several; persons, (including Mies Davey, had offered to assist her in her efforts to reform and she was anxiouß to try.

r-r— —■■ f': i t i —* ■ *•* -tui 'j< ». 'v. ■ . The gir) Graham .was then, put,into .the.] witness-box, and in answer to Mr Napier ; ehe said; Ido not intend -tearing ,Apokland till after the sittings of the Supreme Court. Ido notiintend leaving! now. 'Mr Perm (Harry's father) will keep ime at' his house till aiter the Bittings are over. '■ He says if I got a situation now, I should lose it through having to go to tho Court.* ' ■ Mr Palmer pointed out that he had not fully cross-examined the girl, preferring to wait until, the whole case was. disclosed at the Supreme Court. Her going away therefore would very considerably prejudice his' client's case. He wished to snow that she was not a truthful witness. ! After some further discussion, it was decided to bind the girl over in one security of £100 to appear at the next annual sessions of the Supreme Court, Mr Perm (Henry A. Perm's father) becoming security. AUCKLAND, November 10. The court continued to hear evidence in the above caee at 10.45 this morning. 'As usual, there whb a large attendance. Amongst the visitors present was the newly appointed first-class inspector, Mr Pardy, who was stationed in Auckland for such a lengthened period. Sydney Weightman, authorised surveyor was the first witness called. Me deposed that on the 4th instant be visited Taylors place at Tryphona Harbour for the purpose of drawiDg maps of the house and its surroundings. Ho measured the house, rooms, doors, and wiudowa. From those measurements he had prepared the p*an produced The plan was on the scale of three feet to an inch. He had also prepared a plan of the surroundings, showing tho house, fences, and stockyard, also Sandy Bay, and tho track leading from it to the house, and the Bpot on the top of the range where the girls and boy were said to have been hidden and showing approximately the height of the hills. He was in a position to say that the plan correctly showed these details.

Mrs Taylors Evidence. Mrs Hester Ann Taylor depoeed : I am the widow of the late Mr Robert Taylor, who was a fcettlef at Trypheoa Bay, 1 remember Saturday, the 19th of June last. On that day I was living with my husband and family at Tryphena Bay. My family consisted of Elizabeth Ann (Mrs Seymour), with her baby, Janie, my second daughter, and my son Lincoln. Mrs Seymour and myself occupied bedroom marked No 2 on the plans. Father and Lincoln slept in bedroom marked No. 1. Janie slept in No 3 Father was first up that morning, about 7 o'clock. I followed him into the kitchen. He went outside to waeh his hands, and then he returned to the house and wiped them on the roll towel inside Our Lincoln was then just coming out of t&e bedroom, and Janie was outside collecting some wood for the fiie. Mrs Seymour was still in bed witn the baby. We had no visitors lhat morning only Perm, who came along the beach. He was by himself. I did not know him, an I had never seen him before. He had on an old Tarn o'-Shanter hat and bellbottoned trousers. When he came to the house he paid "Onnd momine.M'r Tavlor,"to which father said," Guud morniog,mascer." My husband then aeked whafc bout he was off. Perm said he waa off the Teviot. He aaked my husband if he could let him have a pound of butter He said he wanted the butter lor the Tairoa. Father aeked Perm to come in and sit down for a few minutes. Tho butter was kept in the dairy, outside of the houso. When my husband and I were going for the butter —we both went, because I wanted him to open the case, as I could not get the lid off—John Caffrey sprang in. That waa before we left the house. I did not notice anything peculiar about Perm. He bad both his hands in the side pockets of a black coat which he was wearing. When Perm was asked to sit down, he did so. He ?at on a small stool near the fireplace. He did not take his hat off, so I did not see his hands at all. John Caffrey ran in hurriedly, that's what I mean when I say sprang in. I knew Caftrey very well. I saw that he had a revolver in each hand when he came in. He bid my husband to hold his hands up. He said, "Hold your hands up, Taylor." He repeated that three times, Caffrey presented the revolver and fired. Betore he fired my hupband said, " Johnny, Johnny, don't shoot me." Ho said this before the thot was fired. I heard three shots fired one after another. My hu-band ran towards No. 1 bedroom door. He got through thedoor,and closed it behind him. He slammed the door as well as he could. There was a latch on the door. Caflrey rushed up to the door after him, and burst it. Porm followed. I was not aware of any resistance being offered to their opening the door. I waa running up and down the kitchen pcreaminc: for my life. I followed them through the door about three minutes after wardd. 1 hr»t went to tho kitchen door to see if thore was anybody übout. During that time I heard one more shot fired. It eeemed to be in my bed-room, No. 2. At that time the door leading into the kitchen was open. Iran through No. 1 bed-ioom to the door of No. 2 bed-room. The door was open. I saw Henry Perm with hi 3 loft arm round my husband's neck. He pointed the revolver to me with hia right hand to prevent me from coming any further. I did not ace Caff ey then I ran out of the house when Perm pointed the revolver at me. (Witness marked Perm's position on the plan produced) I waa just standing at the door.' It waa wide open because you could not c'oae tho bedroom door, as it waa blocked with. a piece of wood. Caffrey might have been in that room without my seeing him Perm was noarebt to me at the door. He was between me and my husband. I could not tell whether at that time my husband waa alive or dead. When I rushed from that door 1 saw a pool of blood on the oilcloth at the centre door. The oilcloth was only in the passage and not in the kitchen. After I left the house I ran towards the stockyard, in the direction of Sandy Bay. T did not get quite as far as the stockyard when Henry Perm ran after me, and overtook me. Perm told me to stay. He said, 1 " You stop ; don't you run any further." He said, "If you don't stay I will blow your brains out." He had a rovolver in his hand at that time. I was begging for mercy. I clasped my hands and said, "For tho Lord, have mercy on me, and don't shoot me." Perm asked me for the girls. He said, "Don't you stir, or i'll blow your brains out," and 1 asked him to spare an old woman like me.He then said "Where are the girls." I replied, "I cannot tell you." Perm said, "Don't tell me any stories." I said, "If you don't believe me, you can go and see." He said he believed I had them planted underneath the bed. I suppoee I would be about 200 yards from the house then. I saw Caffrey coming out of the house. I called him to help me. He came along the beach. I noticed a revolver in his right hand and a piece of line rope wrapped around his wrist. I saw blood on his hand. I did not notice whether he had blood anywhere else. When Caffrey came up I said, "Oh, Johnny what is this man going to take my life for." He said to Pen, " Oh, come on, don't harm the old woman." Then I said to Caffrey,' ♦♦Oh, Johnny, what have you done?" He

vBaid t ~ t(-I!m,done,it..»JL'ye done it.-. I said, 14 Oh, Johnny, you've murdered aninnqcant i man,"' "He, said he' was going Outside to Haratonga, where my son-in-law was living, and that,hei was 'going* to,do' for the lot* They '*both,i then. went,.away over the biltowards Sandy, Bay. I went back to my home, and > went; into the < house. I was frightened that they would come badk,to take my life, but I prayed to the Lord to protect me. I went, into the room where my husband ran,' , I, saw my husband eat down on the floor leaning against a 1 big box that I have. His head was leaning on bis chest. I spoke to him,but got no reply. I did not then examine him. I looked at his face and could see blood. I think it was on the left side. I thought if he sat that way there would be no straightening him to put him in his coffin. I saw that he was dead. So I stretched him out on,the floor. I was all by myself ; the others wore all away, After I had laid out my husband I went outside, and my little boy Lincoln ran up to me did not see anything ot the girls. Lincoln then went to find them, and shortly afterward they returned With him. Mrs Seymour was in her night-drees. I went in to the bed-room and got the baby. It was in the same room with my husband. I brought out the baby to Mrs Seymour. ' I also* brought out her ulster. My little son said, "Oh, mother, do come, do come; you'll have us all murdered." We got the boat and crossed the bay to Mr Baud's. It was very rough. In crossing the bay we saw a cutter. I knew it was the Sovereign of the Seat). Our boat was then on the left side, bud not near the shore. Caffrey rushed , into the house about five minutes after Perm had said good morning to my husband. Perm had plenty of time to have warned my husband that Caffrey was coming, if he had so desired. Before theae men came, there was not a mark on my husband's face that morning. When I aaw Perm with his arm around my husband's neck, my husband was standing straight up with hia head against the wall on the left-hand side going into the room. There were no other doors entering the house excepting that in the kitchen. Any person entering by any other means must have got through the windows. Mr Napier and Mr Palmer both reserved their cross-examination. Mrs Taylor gave her evidenoe in a clear voice, which only trembled when she was minutely describing the horrid details of her hupband'e murder. Throughout the proceedings Perm kept his eyes firmly fixed on her fice, Caffrey, as usual, looked at the ceiling. Re-examined by Mr Williamson : I could not, say that Perm fired any shot. I did not see him.

Mrs Seymour's Sworn Statement. Mrs Elizabeth Ann Seymour deposed : I am the wife of Frederick Seymour, settler, Haratonga, and daughter of the late Mr Robert Taylor. I had been living at my father's house about a week before the 19th of June last. I had my infant with me. It was a month old. I remember the morning of Saturday, the 19th of June. About 7 o'clock I was in bed in bedroom marked Mo 2on the plan. About that time I heard somebody come up to the houpe I heard what passed. The partitions in the houae are simply boards, co that there way nothing to prevent me from heering what took place. I heard a strange man come up to the house and say, •' <.-ood morning, Mr Taylor." Father said, "Good morning, mister." The man asked him if he could let him have a pound of butter. Father asked him to come in and take a seat. The man came in and stayed in the house a little while. Then I heard some one rush into the house. I next heard, " Oh, will you." After that I heard some one say, " Put up your hands, Taylor." 1 think th« words " Oh, will you," were in reply to something about the butter. I next heaid John Caffrey's voice say, "Put up your hands, Taylor." I then heard father cay, "Oh, Johnny, Johnny, don't t-hoot me " Caffrey very angrily and loudly replied, "Put them up; put them up" After this 1 heard throe ahota fired in rapid succession. [The witness here marked the inteivals by rapping her knuckles on the board in front of her.] I heard someone rueh into bedroom No. 1 and the centre door slam Thereupon I spiang out of bed in my night - dress and jumped through the window My sistar Janie was in my room along with me at the time, and she jumped through the window before I did. 1 threw the clothes over the baby, and left it lying in the bed On getting out of the hous^ I went off in the direction of the toitoi bush marked on the plan (place indicated), and I had to got over a fence on my way. The fence was distant about 12 or' 14 ya as irom the window 1 heard one more shot after I left the house -just as 1 was getting over the fence. I hid behind the bunch of rushes of toitni, and from whero I wu? I could see along the beach. While there I saw a strange man running after my mother towards thf> etockyatd. I now recognise Perm ag that man. I could nob exactly tell how he was dressed, except that he had on a mund Tarn o' Shanter hat of a maroon colour. He pasted my mother running, and turning round and facing her he pointed a revolver at her. My mother clasped her hands in front of her and looked at Perm ns if speaking to him. I then saw John Oaffrey coming along the beach horn the direction of the house. On reaching Perm and my mother they all stood together a little time. Caffrey appeared to be talking to mother. Ho then walked on and beckoned three times with his hand for Perm to follow bim. Perm followed a little way, and then looked back at mother. After this both CaflVey and Perm ran off towards Sandy Bay. I returned to the house, and we then launched a flat-bottomed dingy and pulled across the harbour. On eoing across we .saw the " Sovereign " beating out of Tryphena. She had'something black flying from the masthead. About five minutes elapsed from the time of hearing the first " Good morning" until hearing Caffrey'a voice. I was listening attentively, and am quite sure it was five minutes. This closed the examination of this witness, and Mr Napier intimated, that he should reserve 'his crocs-examination until the occasion of the trial. Mr Palmer said that he had no questions to put. '

Miss Taylors Evidence. Sarah Jane Taylor (younger sister of Mrs Seymour) was then called and sworn. She said : — I am a daughter of tho late Mr Robert Taylor, of Tryphenn. I remember the morning of Saturday, the 19th of June laet. Early that morning —about 7 o'clock —I was outside the house, gathering some firewood, when I saw a strange man coming along the beach in the direction of the bouse. I did not then know who he was, and Ido not recognise him yet. I only know that he had on a maroon Tarn o'Shanter. Before he reached the house I went in, and stopped alongside the roller towel on the left hand side of the kitchen door. The man came up to the house with both hands in his coat pockets. When he reached the door, father was outside at the foot of the steps leading up to the door. The'man said, "Good morning, Mr Taylor," and father replied, "Good morning, mister." The man then asked further

if-he would be pleased--to-let him? have a pound of buttor. Father said, "Yea, I think' so," 1 ati'di he ; thefl"l'asked, "Where are" you 'from ?" • ' The'itien answered,' "lara off the Teviotvand I want, the butter- for the- TauW yacht.""'l had seen < the' Tairaa- the clay beforo;Mi'l! then* went into the bed-room Where my sitter was lying. ' I had" laid down the' firewo'dfl, but. the fire Vas lir. The 'man had nof Entered the houee when 1 went into' the' b'edVroom. While there I heard 1 somebody rush'in and say, " But up your hands, Taylor/" iiieard father say, "Oh! Johnny, Johnny,'*don't shobt ode." The mast then said twice, in a saVage tone of voice, "Put, thenY'up." I next heard two shots go off, and Popened the window of the bedroom and«went through. Just as I 'was going through the window I heard a third -'shot. I went over the fence by the well, and Mrs Seymour was just behind me." As I was getting over the fence I heard a l'fourth shot, I hid a little higher upt the hill than Mrs Seymour. • While 'there * I saw mother run along with 'a'man after her - the same man who arrived first, at the house that morning. He walked around mother either unloading orloa'ding a revolver that he held in his hand. From what I could see mother was holding up her hands praying, They remained together about halt-an-hour. After that the. two men ran up the other side of" the' bay.. I recognise John Caffrey as being one of them. After that I came down and 'went into th>' boat with the others, I did not enter the houee again until the following morning (Sunday). Mr Blair and some others were then with me. • I saw the blood on the first bedroom door (the centre door). There was about a half a bucketful of, blood across the doorway. There waa oilcloth there. There was also blood all over the* bed behind the door on the left-hand aide. The door opened against ibhe.bed,, and when it opened there would be a passage about 2\ feet wide between the bed and the wall. There wasblood behind the door, and likewise on the right hand sicle of the wall, going Into bedroom No. 2. I did not then make any efforts to clean up. About a week afterwards I re-visited the house in oider to clean up. I attended the inquest. Ou the. Sunday that I have spoken of, ,I^only brought away some milk and a sheep, that was behind the kitcheu door, arid which father had beon going to cut up It wa» hanging up with its back to the dresser, and was cleaned and dressed, It had not been cut, so far as I know. About five minutes elapsed from tbe time the strange man said *' Good morning " until I heard the first shot. I did not see anything iD the strange man's handß. They were in his coat pockets. On the Sunday I examined the latch of the centre doorway, and found the latch broken off. It had not been broken off on the Saturday when these men came. Messrs Napier and Palmer stated that they did not wish to cross-examine th« witness. At 1.15 the Court adjourned* until 2 0 clock. A dense crowd thronged the the purlieus of the Court both as the prisoners were removed from and taken back to it during the luncheon,

Lincoln Taylors Narrative. On resuming at 2 o'clock, Lincoln Taylor was called and sworn, tie said : lam son of the late Mr Robert Taylor, settler at Tryphena. I was 15 last pril. I remember the morning of Saturday, the 19th of June lust, and a strange man coming to the door about 7 o'clock. I was standing at the kitchen door at the time. The man- was Henry Perm I had seen him once before out at Haratonga. As he came up I saw his hands He had nothing in them. When he came up he said "Good morning," and he then asked my father if ho could lot him have a pound ot butter, Fatner replied, " Oh, yes, couae in and sit down.', He came m and sat down in the kitchen. John Caffrey then rushed up the steps with a revolver in each hand. He said, " Put up your hands, Taylor." Fntber replied, " Oh, Johnny, don't shoot me !" Caffrey again said, "Put up your hand?." He seemed angry. He then tired n .phot being quite clo?e to my father ac tho time, 1 said, " Oh ! Johnny, don't *hoot father," and then I ran away. I cid net takf? any notice of Perm before running away. I ran through the doorway leading liom the kitchen to my father's bedroom. Johnny sang out for me to come back, and 1 locked round just as I opened the door and paw another shot fired by Johnny. It waa'fited at me. I know that because I saw him point the revolver at me. I was not hit, and 1 got through therefore into my mother's bedroom. I heard no onecoming bohind me as I went into it. As 1 entered it I saw my eister, Mrs Seymour, going to jump through the window. Ju^t as I was also going to through it, I heard another &hot fired. I got tuiough it and jumped over tho fence m a diff«rent direction fiom that take^ by my sisters, I heard a fourth shot as I going over the fence. There is no picture i-i 1 the kitchen, only a card with the word?, " Happy ]Sew Year "on it It was hanging just above the door leading to the bedroom into which I ran. It was ro a^frullsized door, I do not know how tall a man my father was. He was a mediameized man, not so tall as you (the Crown Solicitor). I slept in that bedroom. The edge of the bed carae close up to the hinge of the door. It was a double bed of the oadinary size. When the door opened it would open against; the side of the bed. I went away and hid m°cH. I did not see what happened en the b£uch. I only saw persons standing by my mother along by the stockyard. They stopped together about fiva min"ules. 1 saw Johnny go along the beach from the house, and I saw him join my mother and Perm. The two men went over v the hill. I then got the boat out, and pulled my mother and sisters acroes the harbour. I walked over to Mr Bailey's to Mr Blairs, and from there I prbceeded on horseback to Haratonga. The cutt°r waa then standing off and on Rosalie Bn>,. on the eastern side of the island. I dirt not then see any flag up, but in crossing the harbour I saw that ehe had a black flag up. Messrs iNapier and Palmer reserved' their examination of this witness.

Mr Blairs Examination of tke Murdered Alan's Body. James Blair deposed : I am a settler residing at Tryphena Harbour. I know Mr Robert Taylors house there. I remember visiting it on Saturday morning, the 19th of June last I gofc there about half-past eight o'clock. I was led to visit it through being informed of the murdor. My brother and Mr Bailoy went with me. I entered tho hou'-e. There is only one entrance to it, and'that opens into the kitchen. I passed through the centre door into the small bedroom, and then went to where the body was found, There was a large pool of blood hi the centre doorway, and there was blood also on the wall behind the door, on the bed, on tho back of the door, and on tho wall facing the door. There was no other blood except on the wall dividing bedrooms Nos. 1 and 2, but in bedroom No. 1. Those were smears, as if an arm had brushed against the wall. „ I -them passed into bedroom No. 2, and saw Mr

Robert Taylors, body lying there on, the floor*"" He' was btretched out straight on his back, the feet towatds'. the window, and the bead towards the door. 1 examined the body by cutting the jumper or shirt from 1 lop to bottom with my knife, and ■earthing his breaßt. I found no wound there, but 'I discovered a circular hole on the left side of the head between the eye «nd the ear. I looked at it closely and it setemed as if burnt with powder. It was very black. It was on the flosh midway between- ihe ' eye and the ear. The weapon from which the phot was firqd could not have been* held more than a few inches away from the head. I turned the body 5 over, ' and found another wound •on 'the back of the head near the ■nape*' of the neck. I examined it, and found it to be bleeding slowly, and when J turned the body on its face a large ' quantity of blood flowed from the mouth. I noticed no bruises on the face. I turned the body on its back again, threw the sheet over it, and left it. I examined the kitchen and No. 1 bedroom, I saw a bullet embedded in the wood over the centre doorway, facing the kitchen. The piece of wood produced containing that bullet contains part of the lintel of the doer, so that if the bullet had been a little lower, it would have passed right into the bedroom I noticed an illuminated card hanging over this door on the kitchen Bide. I made a further examination of the kitchen, and found the revolver produced. (The witness selected the revolver, one with a cross on the stock, - from three which were offered to him). It was nearly behind the kitchen or outer door. I examined it when I picked it up. It had five chambers, and one was discharged. The other four were loaded with ball cartridge. I kept charge of this revolver until I handed it over to the police at the inquest. I paw the carcase of a sheep banging behind the kitchen or outside door It had not been cut— not touched It was removed the day after. I have heard Taylor called "Tueky," bufe only recently I have heard him ca'led by several nicknames. Mr Tajlor'p height was between sft 6in or fift Bin. His head would almost touch the central doorwayit wouid be about four inches below the door. It was not an ordinary doorway — a tall man could n^t pars through erect.

The Medical Testimony. Henry Walker depo-ed : I am a duly qualified medical practitioner practising in Auckland. I visited the house of Mr Robert Taylor at Tryphena on the 22nd of June la^t. I went in company with the detective? and other officers with the viow of attending an inquest. I found a body in the houee in the f»r b Hroom marked No 2 on the p 1 an. ImHei alight examination of the body in that bedroom, and then had it removed to the ki^ch- n, where I made a farther examination. I found that deceased was a man about 54 years of age, about fivo feet six inches in height. There was a largre amount of blood abou*" the head, face, and neck, and on the clothes of the dec??i°ed. There was also blood on hi* has.d-- The body wa» muscular, and well noun-hed. On the left side of the head, betw <-en the eye and the ear, I found a puiill circular wound. I examined the outside of it. The wound was very much scorched around the outside. There were gunpowder marks, likewise ecchymosi*. Whether gun or revolver, the weapon that made the wound must have been very clo?e — within an inch or two. I then passed a probe into the wound, and discovered that it went into the brain. I then removed the scalp, and found the boned fractured at the back part of the head on the right side. I removed the pieces of fractured bones. The ekin was slightly broken at the back, and blood had been coming from the wound. Idissected thebonos,andextracted the bullet from the aperture. (Bullet and pieces of bone produced) Tho bullet was lodged amongst the bores. It bad only to go throagh the tkin to have passed out of the head. I the» removed the skull cap, and found a large amount of bloody eerum inside the cranium. 1 tiaced the course of the bullet from the left temple, through the brain into the back of the head on the right cide I found no other mark? of injury about the body except a Blight abrasion of the ekin on the left side of the noee. Tfcat was just a bruise. The brain was very healthy. The caase of death was the bullet passing from left to right through tho brain substance. It would have caused instantaneous death. The wouHd waB lower at tho back of the head. The ehot had evidently been fired downwards. The man who received the wound must have been sitting down, for the hand that fired the phot must have been higher than the deceaped It might probably have been similar had the man's head been bent forward, but 1 would not like to state that such would have been the case.

A Fresh Witness. Acnes Austin, a girl about 17 years of age, deposed :—At prepent I am living with Miss Davey, at Mount Roskill. I know tho two prisoners before me. I remember the night on which they left Auckland. It was on the 17th of last June. I saw them that evening in Queen-street. They were not together. I firet paw Henry Perm. 1 had a conversation with him, but Ido not know what it was about. Grace Graham was with him at the time. Caffrey came up to our place that nigh*about 9 o'clock. Me eaid he was going away to the Barrier, and that he was not •coming back again. I don't know why he wanted to tell me this. He made no proposal to me. He said that I would not see him again in Auckland, and that I would hear about him and read about him. He did not say in the papers. ' Caffrey staid with me about half an hour. He was quite eober then. Ho said nothing eke before he left. I cannot remember what he was talking about during that half-hour. I had been one voyage with him. I did not go on that voyage because I did not want to. I told him so the last night he was with me. Ido not know why I told him that I v'did not want to go that voyage. He asked me to go more than once] It was when I refused to go tint he said, i would read about him. Caffrey was dressed {

i< • ' \ 7 " ! U >U<><l r' , in ablueeeroe.auifr »nd t a, black, felt hat; that night. It wap a newbat,i X I did snot' have, any talk, witjh, . Peon (^aD,4' Gracfc Graham as ,to going.' the,,toip to the Barrier. , ■ ,■> . , i *< < !>! > * '' Mr Williamson aaid I Have no other witnesses to pall now except ooe, who will occupy a very long time.. In .any case I shall have to ask for a remand, as there are several other witnesses to be called. As they are o\\ town witnesses, it is quite immaterial to me what, day .the Court is adjourned to. t . His Worship accordingly remanded tlje prisoner^ until Friday week, the idhh irtsr., on the understanding that moßt probably a further remand would be required if the ft. M. could not be in attendance. ' Before the prisoners were removed Mr Napier requested, on behalf of the prisoner Perm, that he might during his confinement be supplied with pen, ink, and paper, in order that he might make notes for his defence. His Worship did not see how he could make any orders. Mr Williamson remarked that it was against the prison regulations. Mr Napier said that he did not see why it should be.* The prisoner Was not convicted, and was surely entitled to every facility to prepare his defence. Of course, if His Worship felt that he had not the power to make the order, then he must apply to the Minister of Justice. His Worship replied that such would be the proper course. At any mte, he should net make any order. The prisoners were then removed from the dock, aud the Court adjourned. As usual, tho audience made a wild rush for the doors, in order to see the prisoners march past. Perm has uo«r lost all his jauntineas, and walks with his head forward, as though he was becoming despondent.