MAJOR ATKINSON IN THE THEATRE ROYAL.

Te Aroha News, Volume III, Issue 148, 3 April 1886, Page 5

MAJOR ATKINSON IN THE THEATRE ROYAL.

Exposition of the Opposition Platform. Auckland, March 31. In response to a requisition extensively signed in Auckland, and sent to him at Taranaki, Major Atkinson addressed a crowded meeting in the Theatre Royal last night upon the political situation. The doors were not opened until 7.30, but aa early as seven o'clock they -weie beset with expectant people, and when at last the way was clear for admission, the crowds surged eagerly in. According to time honourod usage, the dross circle was reserved for ladies and their gentlemen friends, while the masculine ele rrtent maintained an unchallenged monopoly of the lower parts of tho house. After the first rush, however, the seats did not fill up very fast. Still, before the meeting commenced the house was practically full, the only seats vacaut being a few in tho pit, while the lobby was crowded. Amongst those who occupied seats upon the platform we observed Messrs VV. F. Buckland, M.H JK., T. Thompson, M.H.R , Hon. John G. Dougherty, M.L.C. (Victoria), Hon. VV. Irving Winter, M.L.C. (Victoria), Mr Montagu G. Carr (Queensland), Hon. Geo. P. Wilson (Victoria), Dr. Wilkins, Rev. Thos. Id amor, Mr W P. Moat, M.H.R. , Messrs A. McArthur, P. M. Grant, P. McN aught, J. W. Carr, L. JSeumogon, Martelli, P. Oliphant, G. P. Pierce, W. Thorne, F. Mouzer, E Bell, O. Mays, J. C. Firth, W. G Garrard, H. F. Famuli, F. Cherry, Cr. Way mouth, Mr L. L) Nathan, Rev D. Bruce, Mr Winks (Mayor of Darnell), Cr. Kidd, Mr 1). B. McDonald, Mr .J. B. Whyte, M.H.R., Superintendent Thomson, Mr A. H. Nathan, Mr C. E. Button, Mr R. Laishley, jun., Mr T. W. Leys, Mr W, J. Suiter (Mayor of Newmarket), Messrs W. S. Wilson, G. M. Reed, W. Lodder, Edward Lewis, Pierce Lanigan, W. J. Hurst, M.H.R., Colonel Fraser, M.H.R., Jas. Grant, R. A. A. Sherrin, Cr. Evans, Cr. Burns, Mr John Ross, Hon. VV. Swanson, M.L.C, Mr J. M. Clark, Mr D. J McLeod, and Cr. Aickin. Tho arrangements were under the supc. intendence of Mr W. Hodge, and proved to bo very comploto of their kind. At 8 o'clock precisely His Worship the Mayor made his entrance at the back of tho stage, followed by Major Atkinson, Mr E. Mitchelson, M.H.R , and Mr Thos. Peacock, M.H.R. They weie at once received with a burst of applau.s?. On reaching the chair. His Woiisiin 1 at once proceeded to address the audience. He said that it was quite unnecessary to read the formal notico convening the meeting. They were met togother that night for the purpose of hoaring Major Atkinson address them on gome of tho important questions that were occupying the minds of the people oi this colony. Major Atkinson was thoro in response to an invitation from a very large number of tho citizens, and they would have an oppoi tunity at a later period of the evening of signifying their opinion of what he said to them. His experience, the number of years during which he had occupied a seat in the House, and also his position as a member of several Ministries of the past, gave reason to expect from him an able and practical address. As to whether or not his opinions would agree with their views, they would have to hear before they could judgo. Need ha ask the gontlemon prosont to give Major Atkinson a fair and impaitial hearing ? He thought not. As for the ladies, they were always fair. (Loud applause.)

The Opening.—Sir Julius Vogel Criticised. Major Atkinson, on rising to address the assemblage, was received with loud cheering. He commenced by saying that, as their worthy Chairman had informed them, he was there that evening in response to a numerously - signed requisition. He responded to that requiaition, and the hearty manner in which they had received him. He was gratified on two grounds. He wasgi'atined that they should desire to hear him, and still more gratified that in a large city like Auckland they should desiro to hear all sides of the important questions that were agitating the public mind, because they had the advantage of hearing important speeches from Sir George Grey and Sir Julius Vogel. When they had heard his (Major Atkinson's) address they would have another side of the question before them, and would probably be able to judgo of the course the colony ought to pursue in the position in which they now found themselves. He wa? there that evening speaking from the Opposition platform. The duty of an opposition and its constitutional attitude was criticism. The duty of Her Majesty's Government was to submit schemes, and the duty of the Opposition was to examine these schemes, and point out tho weak places, so as to have them fairly discussed by men who undor3tood tho position. But some times occaaions arose when it wa? the duty of the Opposition to go further. There were times, such as the present, when the colony was in danger from a policy of excessive borrowing, and then it was the duty of the Opposition to go further than criticism, and point out to the electors generally what they thought were the right lines that should be pursued under the circumstances. That being so, he proposed that evening not only to criticise the scheme which a leading member of the Government submitted to thejn a few nights ago, but further with their permission to speak generally of the lines he thought should be followed at the present time. He wished, in the first place, to examine two or three statements that were made by Sir Julius Vogel in his recent address, and which were apt to mislead the public if the other side were not put. He wanted to give them his views of the deficit which Sir Julius Vogel referred to as having occurred in ISS4, when his Government went out of office. He wanted to refer to the expenditure on other than reproductive objects, on the loans which they had spent since 1870, and on Capt. Russell's motion for the reduction of the Public Works vote of the North, and also to make a few remarks respecting the position of the loan for the construction of the North Island main trunk railway. He would first refer to the deficit. They knew that there was a deficit when the late Government went out of office. He would not have said anything respecting it, if it had not been «aid by Sir Julius Vogel that at the end of his first year of office as Treasurer there was a slight credit balance of £22,000. During the year IbB4, they paid through the Treasury at least £23,000 of the debt, and in 1885, when there was a surplus of £22,000, they paid nothing off the debt. The colony determined to borrow money to pay the sinking fund, instead of paying it cut of the consolidated revenue. If these charges had not been made against the consolidated revenue last year, instead of a deficit there would have been a surplus of of £80,000 or £90,000. Now they came to the expenditure out of the loan. This was an important point, as bearing on what they would come to afterwards as to the expenditure out of future loans. Since 1870, they had borrowed and spent on public works begun twenty-two millions. He was quoting in round figures,

and would continue to do so in order that they might grasp the position. The exact sum was about a quarter of a million less j than he had stated. Now, as be had already snid, they had borrowed and spent twentytwo millions. But whilo they were spending that money they were paying* y ear after year, a very large amount for interest on sinking fund, and contributing from the consolidated revenue two and a-half millions per annum to the sinking fund, so that during these years they only increased the debt to nineteen and a-half millions, because the sinking fund paid out of the consolidated revenues wipes off the balance. Now he askfd them to see how this money was spent. Great misapprehension existed as to what was spont on reproductive works, but in the financial statement they had fund tables showing how tho money was expended, but it would be necessary for them to divide the charges, departmental expenses, etc., in order to get at the exact amount. If they did so, they would find that there was spont on railways in that period £12,250,000. Then more was spent on immigration, which also gave a directly reproductive return, a very largo amount. The money spent in bringing immigrants here was directly reproductive to the Treasury -fourteen and a-half millions had been spent on these objects alone. Then the Post - office and Telegraph Office had returned about C 17.000 or £18,000 a year, which they might call the interest upon half a million. If they added half a-million to that, tho balance of the post-office and telograph account, they would find that it made fifteen millions out of the nineteen and ahalf millions!— fifteen millions spent in directly reproductive works, from which the Treasury derived a revenue at the present time Ho had said nothing about tho roads and native lands. One million had been spent on nativo lands. He thought a large portion of that was nonproductive, and a largo portion came back into the hands of tho Treasury. Proceeding further, Major Atkinson said that ho was ono of thoso who held that the roads leading to railways had a right to be credited with money voted for tho construction of railways as the railways themselves. They had actually paid within a year on public works, 14s lO^d out of every £1 that had been spent, isow this was a voiy practical question, for Sir Julius Vogel told them, andindoingsohethoughtled them off the scent, that if they spent 5s on other works, and 15s on tho wholo loan, that would cover tho cost of tho interest on the whole loan, or 5 per cent interest. That convoyed the impression that we had not been doing so in the past years, and that we only required to adopt this scheme to got 5 por cont., and the whole interost would be covered.

Captain Russell's Motion. Now ho camo to tho consideration of Captain "Rubssell's motion. He must confess that ho wa& very much surprised at the statement made by the Colonial Treasurer that every Government must boirow in oider that they might be certain of the continuity of public works, but he wished to say that there was no ground whatever for such a statement as that (applauso), that thero was no fear that if tho votes asked for were not granted, there could bo no increase in the railway workshops of the colony. Well, the proof of the pudding was in tho eating. The Government as>ked the Hou«e to grant £2,000,000, but it should be known that the votes taken for public works were not to bespont this year. How did they think this amount was to be spent ? In order that Parliament might carry out public works, the House voted not only the amount which it was intended to expend during the year, but^ also the amount to which it was willing the Government should commit the country on future works and contracts. Generally speaking, the amount that was asked and voted was about double that which it was intendod to expend, the other being simply to carry on public work?, and for tho continuity of Parliament, etc. The Government asked for £2,600.000. They had cash in hand of £2,145,000— that was the amount of cash available — when they asked for a vote of half-a-million more. If the House agreed to that vote, one of t,vo things would have happened Either the Government would have said to the House, " You must provide an extra loan to covor ways and means," or they would have been compelled to spend the North Island Trunk Loan to make it up. They did nob believe in expending the North Island Trunk Loan for that purpose, and they were not in a position to ask for a new loan bill last session, and they thought that with two million in hand,'' they might take a littlo rest, that they might jog along for a short time. (Applause). But the actual votes that Parliament gave amounted to no less than £2, 150,000. Thoy had boon told by Ministers all over the colony that groat misery would be brought upon the people because the Government had only voted £2,150 000 for the year's work. Think of that for a year's work (laughtor), actually 12,150,000. Now Ministers had gone about one after another telling this through the colony, in the country districts, in the North and in the South, that if tho House had not cut down the votes thoy could have dono various works. Let him tell them this The Minister of Public Works said that thoy only intended to expend during this current year one million and a quarter, that was £1,250,000— a1l the rest they simply wanted for contracts ; and Sir Julius Vogel had told them, when he was advocating the necessity of an immediato loan, that they had not only to provide out of tho money in hand but also to meet the liabilities which will be still in existence at the end ot the year, and that they had to provide for liabilities of £1,250,000. Let them suppose, for the sako of argument, that the Government only spent at the rate of a million and quartor. Add these together, and it was found that the amount was £2,500,000, which included £150,000 for the East and West Coast Railway, to which nothing had been done beyond the flying survey. The Government had already comaritted the country to the full amount voted. Yet they went about saying that but for the Opposition, they would have put all these works in hand, when as a matter of fact they had already, as he had said, precisely committed the country to the full amount voted. They should have had in hand £900,000, whereas they had only £770,000, as against the £560,000 under the present administration. They should have had £120,000 remaining in hand to meet any liabilities that there had been. He asked them, Could it be said with truth that the actions of the Opposition had brought misery upon the country? He maintained that they had not, and that the charge was false.

North Island Trnnk Railway. With rogard to the loan for the North Island Trunk Railway, he could tell them that it would have been impossible for tho Government to have spent a farthing of that loan upon that line. They had only £2,045,000, and the total votes were more than that amount It was only talk on the part of the Government used in order to frighten those who did not believe in their policy. They would see from what he had stated that the Opposition! na( * taken

every care that this loan should not be infringed upon. The figures he had quoted could not be disputed, for he could produce them all to prove his assertions. He did not wish to detain them with dry details, but he felt that they would agree with him that it was necessary to touch upon these points (applause) in order than matters might be placed before them fairly. (Applause.)

The Policy of the Present Government Now he came to the policy of the present Government. He was afraid that he muat confess that he had great difficulty in saying what really waa the policy of the present Government. (Laughter.) They saw one balloon after another lot off and float into epace, and then they were never heard of more. (Laughter.) Ho liked to hear the statements of public men; — that was,aiways provided that they were their statements, but he found that the remarks made by the various Ministers, if inquired into, were not really their opinions, so they would see that he was in a difficulty when he attempted to criticise the policy ot the present Government. He would, however, quote from a speech recently made by Sir Julius Vogel, and he would remind them that the report was a carefully corrected ono He found that Sir Julius Vogel had said ; " Ladies and gentlemen 1 know my Ovvnmind." (Laughter.) Hehad no doubt that statemont wa<* quite true, and perhaps it was equally true that no one else knew the mind of the Colonial Treasurer (laughter). Then he had also said in the same coriected speech that he also knew the minds of his colleagues, and then ho led them to bolieve that he was submitting a echeme from the Government. And upon that scheme he had asked for a dissolution, saying that tho people were those to whom tho Ministry should apply ; and for himself, he must say that if a Minister ot the Crow n told them that tho Parliamont must be passed over and the people directly consulted, thon it was surely fair for him to consider that the tiue policy of tho present Governmont.

The .610,000,000 Loan. Then they had the balloon of the £10,000,000 loan which tho prosent Government wished to float. They all thought how nico that would bo for some of them who were rather hard up. (Laughter.) Yes : they were all ready for the loan, pro vidod that it was only shovelled out quickly enough. He had heard men say that they would have the loan, get as much as they could, and then go away to fresh fields and pastures new. Well, all he could say to such people was that he would tax them as heavily as he could while they -»ere here. He had commented upon the proposed £10,000,000 loan thinking that it was part of the Government policy, but the Colonial Treasurer had immediately replied that it was unfair to criticise what was not a Government scheme. Then they had tho last speech of Sir Julius Vogel at Dunedin. Stories had been spread about— he had no doubt by the Premier— to the effect that the scheme had been modified, and that wo had just enough money to go on for the present. Be could hardly take notice ol that, although it had been so seriously put forward that the Government actually announced it through their Treasurer, and claimed that a dissolution ought to be granted upon it. Therefore he wan going to examine it, taking it as tho expiession of the mature mind of tho Treasurer, at any rate after months of thought Now what was the scheme? It was this : "Let us," he had said, "increase our taxation through the Customs by £100,000 a year, with the object of borrowing and spending two millions sterling annually, one half of the two millions to be spent upon reproductive works." They were not told what the reproductive works weie.

Will You Give the Colony Another Chance ? The point of his speech seemed to be con tamed in the following passage, which he had read, re-read, and read again. He had even taken the trouble— fcr he hardly beliovod it — to read it again just before coming to address them that night, so startling was it that ho felt himself bound to read and read till he felt sure thero could be no mistake. What Sir Julius said then in that passage was this: — "Gentlemen, the question is, will you give the colony another chance ?" (Laughter, and a voice : "Quite right") His iriend had just confirmed the statement. (Renewed laughter ) So it was established out of the mouths of two witnesses (Continued laughter.) "/Will you give the colony another jchance ?" Thus said the Treasurer, and he /repeated it. " Will you follow the example of New South Wales ; not on so gigantic a scale, but on a reasonable and moderate scale? Or will you hand over the colony to a few largo land owners, and the vast mass of the population praying only to be removed to some othei colony ? " (Faint applause ) Now that was the statement the Taeasurer had made. In all seriousnes?,he said he had hoped and hoped against hope that he had misread the statement, for, he asked, "How could we continue the public works scheme after it had been condemned so completely and so utterly by no opponent of the scheme as by the father of the scheme himself, in the very sentences from his speech that he had quoted. (Applause.) Thus after 15, or rather 16 years, and after 22 millions sterling had been spont upon this scheme, wo were told by the father of the scheme in fact, the Treasurer had stiongly invited U 3 to make a fresh start on the same old linos -thab unless uo took that fresh start the colony must be practically abandoned to a few large land-owners. Mow he a«ked what encouragement was there in that for them to enter upon a new scheme of public works? (Applause.) But he said in answer that there was not a word of truth in that statement. (Loud applause. ) He said further that if we accepted it, then he would at once advise us to abandon every intention of further borrowing. It would be absolutely dishonest for us to borrow— if things were as Sir Julius had said -and ho had yet to learn that the peoplo of Now Zealand had even the shadow of dishonesty about them, Now. he said that what the Treasurer had told them contained not a word of truth in so far as it was a representation of our position. He declared that this colony at tho present time, although suffering from the wave of depression which was passing over the world generally in consequence of an enormous fall in the prices of all raw material products, as well as in those of manufactured articles, yet, on the face of the earth there wore no people bettor fed, better housed, or bettor clothed than wore the people of New Zealand (Appiausc.) (A voice: "The Americans are?") The Americans ! Bless you, no (Laughter and applause.) In America there were hundreds of thousands of men out of work at the present time. (A voice: "That is the result of the stagnation prevailing all over the world,") Now that the Treasurer of the colony made such a statement ns ho had criticised, it must of necessity act most detrimentally upon the general interests of the colony. It went abroad, and we had at once severe articles appearing in the press opposing us strongly, and stating how little they thought of our credit. If men saw that the result of 16 years' experience of public works, and the expenditure thereon 'of 23

i millions sterling was, according to Sir Julius Vcgel, only to leave tho colony in the possession of a few large landowners with the rest of the population ready to go away, how could we expect people to lend us llieir assistance, especially after its position had been so unfavourably stated by one in lagh official position like Sir Julius Vogel ? ( ip plause. )

Sir Julius Vogel's Finance. He came now to the question of reproductive works. What weie they ? He might just take the opportunity to point out that with this additional £100,000 which the Government got; through the Customs they had met their losses. W hen it was asked for from , Parliament, it was wanted not for the purpose of paying interest on the loan, but for paying the subsidies to local bodies. Now they had heard nothing about those subsidies, but the unfortunate local bodies had, on the contrary, been saddled with the expense of the charitable relief, and the sup port of the hospitals, and they were to get no more subsidies. The money was wanted for the purpose of payingintereston the loan. If they went back for a year they would find that we were told that we did not want a Sinking Fund at al l , but that we could pay it out of the revenue and go on borrowing. Ifc was stated in the Financial Statement that we did not need to pay interest on loans until we had borrowed 71,7 1 , millions yet we had to submit to £100,"b00 extra taxation, and borrow more money, whilo there was provided forth© unfortunate local bodies the happy privilege of paying for the Hospitals and for charitable aid.

Interest on Further Borrowing. But to come back to the question of reproductive works. Sir Julius Vogel advocates the immediate immediate construction of the East and West Coast Railway. He proposes to spend ono million and a half yearly upon railways. For how many years Ido not know. But if we construct the East and West Coast Railway, that /vill want threo and a-half millions. Then he told you that the department had made a careful calculation, and found that they would very soon get two per cent return upon the expenditure on the East and West Coast Railway, if that railway (as he told you on the authority of Mr Bo wen) is to pay b«tter than any other, it follows that no other can pay more, so we come to this — a reproductive work, according to that speech, means a return of two per cent, or under. ( Laughter ) I know something about this railway, and I do not beliove it will return two per cent. I believe it will return leas, but accept that figure for the sake of my aigument. You are to submit to £100,000 a year in extra taxation. Now, we are to spend at the rate of two millions a year ; one million and ahalf to be spent on railways. Suppose, at the end of the fourth year -a liberal supposition — we have spent threefourths of the eight millions (that is, six millions), and supposing further— which is supposing really what cannot take placefive millions have been spent upon vorks which during the fourth year have returned the full percentage the Government estimated, you will see that for the expendituie wo have made at the end of the fourth year we have only got a return of 2 per cent, on five millions, or £100,000 We shall have to pay for interest, £320,000, and have only a_ return of £100,000, plus tho extra taxation, but that will not come within the requirements by £120,000 a year. Now, that was put forward as a scheme that was practicable and would give a reasonable return for the money invested. Could they, he asked, follow a more uncertain guide than the man who was pre pared to map out the finances of the country on such a basis as that ? But they would say that ho did not take into account the naturalincreaseof revenue. He replied "No." But they should remember that the expenditure of the Education, and Post-office and other departments, was also on the increase, and he did not believe they could count on any relief from that source.

Vogel Only Wants the East and West Coast Railway. Now, if they looked deeper into tho scheme they would see that tho real version why ifc as proposed was this : It wa-i in order to get in the East and West Coast railway, to -which Sir Julius Vogel was irretrievably committed. (Cries of "No," and applause ) He would not have wanted this grand scheme if it had not been re quired to cover the expenditure of three millions and a half for the purposes ot this railway Was it reasonable that they shouldbe committed tosuch aschemeasthis? (Ciiesof "lVo,"and applause.) Now let him say a few words about this East and West Coast railway. The East and West Coast railway, as well as the railway north of Auckland and tho N el?on line, were all part of the original scheme, as well as the railway between here and Wellington. There was no doubt that it would have to be made in due time ; but how many yeara had Auckland and Wellington wanted to be connected ? The public works scheme had been in operation for fifteen or sixteen years, and they were not connected yet, and it would still be three or four years before the line was completed. If Auckland and Wellington, those two large districts, had to wait, and rightly so, he held, if they had to wait twenty years to be connected, then surely Hokitika ond Christchurch, which were connected with other large centres of population, could wait until the country could afford to make the line without unduly burdening the people. ISovv a great deal had beon done about this railway, as they were aware ; bills weie passed re specting it, and when the three million loan was decided upon, it was seen that a long time would have to elapse before tho lino could be undertaken. Then a bill was passed making large concessions of land with the object of getting companies to undertake the construction of the line. That was extended for a year or two, and then last sossion another bill was brought forward giving greater concessions. This was passed by a" large majority. It was seen that the country could not undertake the work at the present time, and in fact that it could not be otherwise done in the present state of the public finances. The Canterbury men were now apparently taking this position — that the Otago Central and Northern trunk line having been assented to, this work should not be delayed longer. And they were to be taken by tne throat, because the exigencies of one of the Ministers of the Crown, who was the representative of a Canterbury constituency, requested him to see to the construction of the line, whether the country could pay for it or not. They were to have this grand scheme to float this grand railway, although Parliament repeatedly said that the country waa not in a position to undertake the work.

What Ought to be Done. Well,ghe had shown them that tho policy of Sir Julius Vogol could not be satisfactory, and now he wanted to tell them what he thought ought to be done. It was monstrous to propose to thorn that they ought to accept 50s per head as the nominal rate of the customs duties which they had to pay. He understood that tho public works were to lighten taxation, and not to inorease it. Sir Julius Vogel was, in fact, mocking the people, and he (the speaker) would resist 50s as the nominal duty to the uttermost. He would object to

any increase at all, unless it were Bhown to be required for payments to which they were ongager). If they began by admitting taxation at 50s per head to raise these loans, they would soon have to pay not 503 but 70s, to cover interest and charges. He would resist any increase until he saw that it waa necessary to carry on works that were absolutely required.

Public Works. Then he wished to say a few words, with regard to public works, as to the course that he thought they ehould pursue. It was clear to him, and to most reasonable and thinking men, that we should be unwise to stop borrowing at the present time, which would be equally as unwise as to cut off all works now in an unfinished slate, or launch out upon a large scheme of new borrowing. As business men they should take stock, so as to ascertain what amount of loan it was necessary to borrow in order to carry certain works to a paying condition. This was certainly the only proper course to pursue. Ho said they should take stock and find out what was the amount of money required for this purpose, and having found that out, they should then determine to borrow only a limited amount every year in order to carry on these works. They had been frequently told that railways were rotting at one end before their completion, but these assertions were merely stories. The only instance of this state of things of which he had heard was where some political railways were commenced in the high and palmy "days, a large amount of money was spent upon them, and they were eventually left in an unfinished state. The present Government had taken them up, and were spending money upon them. He was assured by an official in the Public Works Department that there would be a greater loss in the completion of these lines than if they were left where they were. (Laughter.) He was of opinion that they must borrow just sufficient to carry on their public works to a payable point, and the expenditure, in his opinion, should not exceed one million a year. He did not think that we could afford it without additional taxation. This must be considered first, whether retrenchment was possible.

Retrenchment. They heard a great deal of talk about retrenchment at meetings previously held here, and ho had no doubt it was possible to some extent, notwithstanding the aseertions which Sir Julius Vogel made here to the contrary. He believed in retrenchment, if the people of the country required it. In 1879 they retrenched very largely, but it was not found to give general satisfaction. Indeed, his experience was that it was nob popular to retrench. The people did not really want retrenchment, and they did not support a Government that went in for it. (Laughter). It was a curious thing to say, bat he was there to give them his opinion, and he had done so. ( Hear, hear. ) So far as he knew, everyone was willing to vote at a public meeting and throw up their hats for retrenchment, except when it was applied in their own districts. If they wanted retrenchment they should tell their members po ; and if they really wanted it they would obtain it. He would tell them of one case in which the late Government made large retrenchments in the police. Several officers were subjected to a reduction in their salaries, and in every case the Government received letters from members and other influential gentlemen, in which it was said "we are pleased to see that you have taken up the work of retrenchment in earnest," but in these particular instances it means ruin to the service by the loss of valuable men, (Laughter.) That sort of thing occurred in every case. Now, if the people wanted retrenchment they must ask for it. If the people were serious in their cry for retrenchment, they could instruct their members accordingly, and they might manage the affairs of the country, so that considerable reductions in expenditure could take place. To his mind it was very impartial that they should retrench if it were possible, for he believed they had all got into extravagant ways. (Laughter and applause.) Sir Julius Vogel told them that he (Major Atkinson) preached that we ought to go about with a fig leaf instead of clothes. (Laughter. ) As for that, if it were the fashion, he would not mind coming before them in a blue flannel shirt. He had worn it in the past, and ne was willing to adopt it again if ifc could be done with propriety. The question, however, was whether they were prepared to reduce the expenditure of the Government. Now he wanted them to consider this, and record their views at the general election. If they could not take it in hand, nobody could. (Applause.)

Road in the Country. Then they must make provision for roads. He had argued that roads were unproductive investments. He was himself a small country settler. He was living on land which he had purchased from the Government over 33 years ago. He known what he was speaking about, and he could say that their railways were practically useless without roads to open up the country, and allow settlei'3 to live upon the land, and enable them to reach a market They must admit that unless they had a sound financial basis to the work upon, their traveling must be limited and slain. He wanted to draw their attention to the fact that the Public Work wero simply a means to an end. Arad that end was a settlement to the country with a well to do contented people. (Applause). Then it must follow that the railways must travel slowly in order to call at the many side stations. They did not want railways simply connecting various large centries. Tho general cry was " Land for the people," but he could tell them that in many instances those who raised that cry were the very men who would not go upon the land themselves. The truth ivas that they wanted not so much land for the people as people for the land. They wanted men and women who would give up town life and amusements, and live upon the land. Yes, women, for they could be very useful in the country, and could assist the settler greatly. (A voice : Make butter for Sd per lb). Yes, they could assist in making butter. He could see that his friend was a butter-maker, and no doubt spoke feolingly upon the matter. He had also made butter, and what was more, before this he had made butter for " sixpence a pound." (Laughter). But he must say that it was better when they were receiving 9dperlb. (Laughter). He came from a district where they were mostly small farmers, and were doing fairly well. He was glad to say that butter was a little higher than 7d. (Laughter ) Land could bo bought in his district at £1 per acre. With regard to the railways, he might safely Fay that the lands opened by the railways already made would support a population of fully three times the present' population of New Zealand. There was no doubt that railways were run, and roads were mado in various parts of the colony, that were not known to benefit small settlers, but rather passed through unoccupied lands held in large blocks by a few persons.

Sir Geo. Grey's Land Scheme. And this brought them to Sir Geo. Grey's land scheme. The chief difficulty of that.

scheme he had already stated. Wo wanto! to find out if the people were really pic pared to take advannago of it. That w.ts what he wa«t afraid of. Still the scheme might tentathely be applied to certain districts. Of course, there was a difficult j about it. Wo did not want to begin bj taking it by foice He believed W9 could obtqin places fed by railways and road-, where the expos itneut might be tried on a small scale, and ho thought that it would be well worth tho trial just to see how f<n the land was wanted, because he hud pointed out to them and wanted them to bear in mind that the whole object of conscructing our own public works wa? the settlement of the counti\ by a well-to-do population. Therefoie, any proposal which enabled the land to be profitably occupied should receive considei ation and be given an experimental trial, so a? to show how tar it would succeed. (.Applause, and "Hear, hear.")

What Vogels Railway Scheme Means Koff he wanted to point this out. It •we were to have a vigorous prosecution of the railway system, it meant, not the settlement of the country, but the ru-hu.g of the-M? railways throuj^h the land practically lor tho sake of the expenditure upen them. And this fco-called vigorous prose cution of public works meant also — and it ■nass a consideration of great importance — the sudden discontinuance of these woiks We mas' very soon coir.c to a suddeu end if wo pushed on with such vigour all the railways, it Ma? possible to make— or, what was of greater importance, all tho*e that we could protitably make: an 1 then, just think of the positi j:i we should be in ! Depend upon it. there would not bo much diffeience in th-it lespect from the position we were now in. although ho hoped the country would be more prosperous then. Still, let us picture to our-elve j what tho result of that sudden discontinuance would be. The whole ot the men sustained by that public works expenditure thrown upon the labour market and the loans stopped ' Of course, all this would pio duce a very serious crisis in the financial aflairs of the colony. Were we justified in pursuing such a course ': Why ?hould we do our public works with such hurry? If the settlement of the country was our main object our works should be undertaken and carried on with that object only. We «hould gradually go on with our railways and roads, and the rate of our progress mu?t be regulated by our means and our pjwer of settlement. (Applause.}

WXiat Example New South Wales is. Then Xev\ South Wales had been held up to u« as an example We were bade to look at New South Wales, and see lidw she ■was advancing by leaps and bounds That reminded liim that last year our advantage \\a« to be '• leaps and bounds.' 1 but not a botindC'ime. Still, with this .-cheine of Sir Julius Yogel":- we would have a regular ppring-bcdid put under v?, and ye should go on in nne scyle. (Laughter ) However. \\e had got to follow New South Wsles — not on the same gigantic scale, of course, but on a reasonable and moderate scale now what was the position of New South Wales at the present time. What it is was our experience in IS7O ; having relied on the land fund and expended largely out of fund*, this \ia« stopped suddenly, and we then had a deficit of one million sterling, and great difficulties arose. In NS. Wales we read they have a deficit at the present time of one million and a-half. Public works, are to be curtailed, taxation direct and indirect i 5i 5 to be levied. and the strictest economy practised in the public service. The lesion it taught was exactly the re verse of the lesson we had ceen taught, and he hoped and believed we should profit by it.

Progress. He was of opinion that we should have patience. We could not expect if our object was settlement, to go on too fast. Our policy should bo to proceed carefully, not too fa=t and not too tlow. We could make up for lost time by pushing- ?ettltment along the rail \\a\\- that were now completed. YVehadsi wn and must wait till the harvest time came. The eatly and latter rain must fall ana give the fruit, or we should never get it. •• How poor are they who have not patience."' What v. ound did ever heal except by degrees .' and that was our position. He declared that we must havo patience, and proceed carefully. Then our future would be absolutely certain. But if we launched out into these big scheme? theie was nothing ahead but disaster. He said that we had our lesson, and we -hould profit by it.

Local Industries. V\ c mast not consent to concentrate our whole attention upon public works. There weie other matters requiringattention. Local industries, for instance, needed looking into (loud applause), and in a direction that we had. not yet looked. He hid been watching these matters ■r ■th uresit care for many years. The late Government had done a jjreat deal to pro mote local industries, and the present Gin eminent had bsen doing their best in the - ime direction. They were, he believed, as desirous as the late Government were of doing their utmost for local industries. The-e industries required to be watrhed o\er with great care. Our object should be not to produce a manufacturing population, such as had been produced in the old country.

The Tendency of Things. And what was the present tendency '■ So far as he could see that tendency, it was for our present industries to multiply, and for a large number of young people to ba thrown out of business aa soon as they had learnt the business, by reason of the fact that there was no longer work for them in the factories. Now this was a very important question It needed the consideration of our be*t men. How were v>o to avoid it? Tho effect Mas to attract the population from the country into tho towns. That was the difficulty. The young people liked the gaieties of life as well as the older ones, and rhey naturally came to the towns for them instead of remaining or going upon the land of the country.

The Housing of tlie People. Then we muat consider the housing of the people. That was a most important point He saw in all these large towns yards and so-called gardens which were a di&grace to our civilisation. (Applause.) If they did not turn their attention to these s ocial question?, rights would grow up. As Englishmen, they were veiy tenacious of their riehte, and hence it was desirable that they should pay attention to the matter now, so that rights should not be established. They should see that houses were not crowded together, and that proper sanitary precau tions were taken. Municipal bodies required greater and more extended powers in this respect than they possessed at present. In New South Wales he had seen whole rows of substantial brick houses which fana been condemned, and bad to be pulled ■ dewn because they did not popseee Buffi.cent yard accommodation. These were thut required their attention now before the <evil sprang into existence.

Home Industries. _ Then they wanted to direct their attention to the question of home industries. Here there was a difficulty. It seemed against the spirit of the age Here in the town* wo congregated in factories, and here was the difficulty fo far as tho country was concerned. We wanted homo industrits established on all hands. They had already the keeping of bees and the rearing of poultry for the country. But, us he had already said, the young in the countiy were being drawn towards the towns, and they wanted to devise something to stop that. He advised careful consideration to th«?c matters by the people of the colony. They ?hould be thinking not so much hosv they could become rich as how they could deal Ayith the.-e social questions, and train up their industries if they wished the colony to become prosperous The Government deserved praise for the attention they devotee) last session to the timber industries, the lisheiies, and the forests. Tho bills proposed uero not altogether satisfactory to him, but still tho steps taken were in the right direction. Ho was convinced that they must direct their attention to those great question?, it they ever ■wished to become a prosperous and powerful people. (Cheers.) t-to could not pretend, and in fact thero was not time at his dis posal to touch on other questions that he intended to refer.

Local Government and Native Lands. The- speaker then referred to the question of local tjovetninent Ho thought institutions must be developed gradually. They must make provision for the revenue to enable local bodies to make roads for one end of the colony to the other. They would never be prosperous until this was done. They could never do it by subsidies, and they could not find sufficient money to pay subsidies as proposed by Sir Julius Vogel, if thty had to borrow money to meet expenditure. There were iea«onablc schemes by which money could bo provided for local bodies without placing an undue burden on the state. Then there was. the question ol nativo lands. What was gome to be done with them i It itemed to him that the nativo policy of tho Government was their very weakest point. Theie were many people who had telegrams of w hat w as being done by Mr Ballance — how he got a speai here, a mat there, and a mero at another place, and so on. They thought that great thing.-, were being done. But it appeared to him that Mr JBallanoe had been got hold of, and that he was being led about by that great and wily chief Wahanui. lie thought that there were grave diihculties Mith the natives looming in the distance. They should bear in mines that the natives owned a large portion of the JSorth Island. He wanted to know whether this land was to be leased or sold to the Government. He held and btuek to it that no more land should be left to the native* than would atlord them a fair Ihing. Tho rem tinder should be acquired by the Ciuwn If i" were necessary to make provision for their further mninten ancc, a portion of the purchase money -hould be funded so that they might be kept up with the interest. He would never consent to the creation of a race of jVlaori landlord*. Then there was the question of Federation, about which they should be thinking. They should think of means that would draw them closer to the Mother Country.

The Bryceßusden Libel Suit. Let him say one word before he closed upon the successful action which Mr Brjce had just concluded in England. (Applause.) He wanted — this being the first occasion he had had an opportunity ot | pub'iely referring to tho matter — to give I a pit olic expression of hia "atiotaction at the result of Mr Bryce's prosecution. It was due to his lato colleague to say tb-it it was only b}' his determination, unas-i_ted and declining all profened as distance, that he not only put himself right, but al o the colonists of New Zealand, before tho eyes of the entire public, by disproving the gro=s slanders contained in a. book called " Ku«den's History of New Zealand." Mr Bryce had carried that matter to a «ucce«sfui issue, and he had thereby restored our good name ana fame in the old country. lie deserved a hearty vote of thanks from ali colonists. (Applause.)

Summary. Well, now, ho would just summarise tho few points they had left They had seen tho expenditure and the net increase of the public debt during the last sixteen yeauamount to nineteen and a half millions, and of that sum three fourths had really been expended on reproductive works, which were now producing receipts to the Treasury ; they had seen that the re^olu tion of Captain Russell had not produced the least difficulty with the Government, by figures that were indisputable ; ho had shown them clearly that tho Government had proceeded to the?,exttnt they had intended to go, and that they had ample money ; then they saw the propolis of the Treasurer, which professed to be to increase taxation to a moderate amount, but which really appeared to mean that at tho end of fcur years they should require to have an increase ot the levenue of les3 than £220,000, to meet the charge.", looked at in the most favourable Vdy. They should refuse to submit to 50s per head from the Customs duties a3 additional taxation until it was shown that such was required to carry on necessary works or to meet their liabilities They should go in for retrenchment in order to leave tho people freer. They had seen that if they proceeded with the railways at an unreasonable rate, they retarded the object which they had in view, namoly, the settlement of the country, because thoy put, additional burdens on the people, additional taxation and additional rates, so that, it would deter people from coming to the colony.

Conclusion. The conclusion therefore that they had come to was that they should take their railways on at a moderate rate to such points as they would pay. and that when getting near to that point that they should consider the financial position of the country with the view of seeing whether it wa9 advisable to proceed with any fre^h scheme, and if so, that scheme should be carefully devised for that purpose. There was one point that, he had forgotten, and it was with regard to the fixing more certainly of loans for the particular works for which they were voted He believed this could be done more effectively than at preeent. The three million loan was applied to the purposes for which it was intended, except that during a time of great depression a portion was expended on worka authorised by Parliament, but which had not been scheduled. They saw generally what the position was, and Bhould determine what they should do. Would they have higher borrowing and further difficulties at the end to proceed with public works at such a rate as their means would permit them to do? Ho did not doubt that they would arrive at a right conclusion. (Applause.) If we would only face our difficulties they would dieappear as other difficulties had dis-

appoaud bofore, and we should come out again in safety (applause) : — On i' romf tiles in ourselves do lie, *A hich wo QBcribo to Heaven. Tho fated eky Gives \ib irco scopo, only doth backward pull Uur clow designs when we ourselves are dull, And dull indeed wo should bo if we thought to get, out of our present difficulties by any grand fccheme of finance. There was no royal road, but with stout hearts and strong the work had to bo done, and if tho colonists of New Zoaland woro what he thought them to be, prosperity would onco more spread over every part of this glorious land. The speaker resumed his seat amid loud applause. -Mr McNauoiit then proposed, ''That this meeting accord to Mdjor Atkinson a hearty vote of thanks for the interesting addrcsfj ho hai deliveiod." Ho would crave their indulgence for a tew momenta while ho stated a fow reasons why thoy should accord their thanks to tho Major. Thoir political a /lairs had got i^to a stato of chaos, and it buhoved them as electois to tako cognisanco of eveiy schomo laid before them by tho various political leaders, and he thought that their thanks were due to the gallant Major for coming boforo thorn to submit his political views to their consideration. It was gratifying to find that they had at least one honest man who was going to ascertain why people loft the countiy lands and gathered towards the town. That such was tho caso, nqno could dpubfc. 110 had known friends of his who had come out to Now Zealand vith six or seven thousands, and had trono on to tho land, and what had been the ie*ult? Why, in the end they were starved otF and compelled to return to tho towns These weio hard facts, and it behoved them to listen thankfully to any scheme calcu lated to put an end to such a sad state of a flair* Mr Gku is .'jlckix seconded the motion It \va=, ho said, giatifying to (hem to find that the threo gioat political loaders had cho=en to address meeting?, in Auckland. It showed that their city was coming <o the fore, and taking up its rightful position. They had 0110 itnpoitant point beforo thorn, viz., that this, portion ofr the colony had not had its proper share in the expenditure for public works, and if they woro to borrow in the future, as Major Atkinson had pointed out, they must see that Auckland had the first clai'n. Hitherto there had only boon ii expended in tho Noith for every £2 apjnt in the South Island, and they n-ust, take care that this time they obtained their fair shaio. Ihey wero entitled to have a line to Wellington, and also to Taranaki and tho West (JOrt-t. These weio the jusfc lights ot Auckland, and lio hoped that in tiie future tho electors would place those matter? before their candidates when thoy came to the hustings, and tako care that thoy obtained diiect promises from them on the-e subjects All tlnoe great leaders in the political aiona had promised to see that Auckland received it^ fair share of the Public Works expenditu'c and it only remained for them to soe that their representatives did their duty. (Applause.) Mr Phillip.-, said tha Mayor should have fjiven them further information concerning tho encouragement of industries other than agiicnltuial Ho thought that tho Bast and We?t Coast railway w ould bo a new departuie in tho public works scheme. Mr E. MoMam's proposed as an amendment "That while this meeting thanks Major Atkinson for his addrcs a , it regrets that the address is all the working men of New Zealand have to thank him for.'' Ho said that no public man in New Zoaland had done more to thwart the imposition of a Land Tax than had Major Atkinson, Sir George Gioy was the advocate for the Land Tax, they had recently endorsed his policy by thoir applau&e, and if they were sincere their confidence was due to Sir George Grey alono. (Loud cheers.) Mr Fkkoekick Mou/ek seconded the amendment. He thought that such a policy as Major Atkinson had submitted would not sweep away the existing depression, t'ho peoplo wanted bread, and not taxation. Major Atkinson had failed to lav down a satisfactory policy. (Applause.)

Questions. In answer to written quostions, M \jor Aticinsox «airl : (1) That he could not state whether the members of the present Parliament understood the science of political economy, but ho could answer in the affirmative for himself (2) That so far there was no money sent out of tho colony that •we did not get an equivalent, for. (3) That it was far better to earn rnonev than to boirow. (4) That the lawa and taxes wera supposed to be made for the purpose of enabling up to supply our own need?.

Land, Income, and Property Taxes. (.")) That it certainly was not true that the labouring classes paid tho Property Tax in the end by paying higher prices to butcher?, grocers, and bakers. If it were true, then tho labouring classes must pay all taxes and no other class paid any tax. That reduced tho thing to an absurdity (A Voico : "Labour bears it all") Weil, labour was not wholly repi'esented by the labouring classes, so called. What was taxed by the Property Tax was accumulated property, and that was what ought to be taxed. They had a Land Tax already to the lull extent that tho^o gentlomcn asked There i\*j,-3 f>ovo r i-eightha of a penny in tho £ or the unimproved value of all tho land in the country, and they had something more They did not want what ho wanted, viz., tho tay » ith the property that goes upon the land. The only diiiierenco between them was not whether they hhould put on a land tax, because they had ?ot that, but? whether the land should bo charged with the property upon it or into what it produced. The real dispute between them vi as in fact whether the tax should be put on capital of property or produce of property. He would give an instance of what he meant They might take the case of a farmer, and suppose that the whole of his property was worth £5,000. They might euppose that the improved value of that land was worth £1,000 Under the Property Tax, the farmer had to pay on the £1,000 improved value, and on the £4,000 worth of property that he had. But they said he should pay on ,the income from it. Now he would show them that there was this difference. Suppose there weto two farms equally stocked and of equal value. One farmer was thrifty, and did his business well, and perhaps had a good thrifty wife too. Now, suppose that he made fifteen per cent , or £150 on every thousand pounds, which would amount altogether to £750. The unthrifty or lazy man with the indifferent wife might make five per cent., or very likely he %vould make nothing at all, and would very probably have a loss, and he certainly would after a bit. Well, suppose he made live per cent., those men would be taxed upon their means. Now, they must see that the industrious man would have to contribute three times the amount that the unthrifty man would be called upon to pay. (A voice : And the State buying his produce). No doubt somebody would have to buy the produce of both men. (Laughter). Now, what he wanted to show them was that both men paid equally under the Property Tax, but the thrifty man under the Income Tax paid

three times moio than his lazy neighbour. Now, his view was this, that there was nothing fair about the Income Tax. Ho was quite certain of this, for ho had worked it out catefully f rcm the Property Tax returns, that all the big property men got off much cheaper undor the Income and Property Tax than under the Land lax. _ He found the Income Tax was practically an impossibility in this country. They saw the difficulty the Americans had in filling the returns, and then they could see the difficulty we would have here. Ho did not know if those gentlemen who talked airily about an income tax ever saw an income tax return. He did nob believe they could fill it up. (A voice: Pay it, you mean -laughter.) No. How, m ho could tell them that in Amoiica, n farmer, if he sold a fowl or killed a hheep, had to put it in his rtjturn. If he employed a labourer for a few days, then he "had to deduct tho man's wages from his own income. But if ho employed a labourer in foncing or clearing work, thib *„-,., termed '• betterment,' and he could not deduct that from tho income. Jlo asked them to imagine tho consternation of a small farmer in New Zoaland if ho had to fill up such a return as that. Then ho would" ask how many peoplo tbero were in a large part of the colony Mho hod mado any income- at all during tho last year, lie knew many who had mado no income at all, and who lived oa their capital, and ho asked how the tax Was to reach these. He failed to see any good reason why people should prefer an income tax to a proporty tax. Why was land to bo specially taxed? Ho would put a caso in point beforo thorn. Thirty years ago he bought a tmall farm, which ho still occupiod. lie paid full valuo on it, and he vontuied to say that at the present time ho could not sell it for what it cost had him. He paid full value on tho land, and why should he bo selected to be specially taxod? They woro told that tho unearned inclement must bo taxed. Did not the Property Tax got at the unearned incicment? (No ') tie ?aid chat it did. It mut-t be admitted that they had a tax on land, and that) oveiy thice years as it roso in valuo so were tho taxes ,'upon it incioased. Directly the land roso in value a land fever set in, and what took place ? They all of thorn knew, and many to their soriow The land was cut up and sold in small farina and allotments, which gave a profit or loss, as the case mijiht be Tho owner of the land pocketed the money, but ho did not get all of ib. Ho &aid, "Pay me a third or a fourth of the sum, and tho rest you can have at a lea&onable rate of inteiest." But tbe purchaser was the owner and not the moitgagee, and down* came tho Land Tax upon the former, who was told that although the land was valued at £2 in the pre\iou& year he hud given £o for it, and it was no uso his arguing matters, for ho would surely havo to pay the tax. It they invested money in laud they must pay special taxes Tho unearnod increment went into the pockets of tho sellers Ho had told them his view, and what happened with regard to the Land Tax, and he had told them why tho Piopeity Tax should be preferred to the Income Tax. What the State should say to a man, &,iy one who has £20,000, is this : You may do what you choose with your money, invest it if you please, lend it on interest, or do what you liko with it, but you must pay upon it to the State, which pro tects you in che use of it, as ib is realisable proper ty that you may leave behind you (Applause). Take, for instance, a small tradesman who had £1,000 invested in his business. To pay himself ho mu3t make l'2GO a year out of the business, and why should ho be charged on that income when the rich man who put his money in diamonds and pictures was not charged upon them? (Applause). Mr Garrard asked if it waß right for a magi°trato to send a man to prison for contempt of court if the debtor proved ho had not got funds, and therefore could not pay ; also if ho did not think that there should be no imprisonment for debt. Major Atkinson thought ho ought to get G^ Sd beforo answering that question. (Applause) He did not think he ought to answer leading questions. in loply to other questions tho Major said he did not consider that householders had an equal right with a ratepayer to vote for tho expenditure of local rates. A householder had, howovor, a vote for election of members of tho House of Representatives, and he should have a vote on the licensed victualling question. The Chairm vn said he had half-a-dozen moie questions, and a<* the hour was very late, he would ask whether tho audience desired them to be put. (Cries of "No, no.") The motions were then submitted, whon two solitary hands were held up for the amendment amidst hooting, and a very largo number for tho resolution, which was declared carried. Major Atkinson expressed himself gratified at tho cordial manner in which they had received him and had accorded him the vote of thanks He was sorry to find that there were some who thought that he had done nothing for the working men of New Zealand. He considered that was simply because thoy did not know more about him. He could as&uro them that if he wanted to obtain a chai actor for tho worka he had dono both in Iho field and in politics, it would be to the working men of the colony that ho would most unhesitatingly apply. (Applause). Tho hour was late, and many were no doubt returning home, but if there Vroic any theie who wiahed to discuss any question with him he was prepared to stay and argue the matter out (Laughter) and if any of them wanted ajiy information on any subject whatever./, he would be glad to meet them if they would call upon him while he remained in the city. He would conclude by asking them to accord a vote of thanks to their worthy Chairman (the Mayor). He resumed his seat amidst loud applause, and tho vote of thanks was carried by acclamation, after which the audience dispersed.