Political Address.

South Canterbury Times, Issue 5009, 17 May 1889, Page 2

Political Address.

MB. E. TURNBULL BEFORE HI3 CONSTITUENTS.

Mr Richard Tnrnbull, M.H.R. for Timaru, addressed a meeting of his constituents in the Assembly Rooms last evening. His Worship the Mayor, Mr D. M. Ross, presided. There was only a moderate number present when the proceedings commenced at half-past sevep. The hour fixed was perhaps rather early, for others kept coming in till after eight o’clock, when there were about 250 present. His Worship the Mayor expressed his pleasure at being called upon to preside. He drew a few contrasts between New Zealand and some of the Australian colonies, and referred to the present Australian demand for New Zealand produce, and to the agitation in Canada for the institution of commercial relations with New Zealand, as proofs of the growing importance of New Zealand. This importance would he foresaw bo much and immediately increased on the successful completion of the Panama Canal—a matter of time only. For the improved position of New Zealand thanks were largely due to skilful legislation, and among those who had bad to do with that legislation, not least prominent for energy and experience, was the member for Timaru, for whom he bad the pleasure of asking a patient hearing. Mr Turnbull at the outset alluded to the smallness of the meeting as a sign of the apathy which generally chaiacteriaed political life when an election was not near. The adoption of the proposed modification of the Hare system would, he thought, correct that, and put more vigour into politics. Even public men did not display that energy in public matters which they ought to do, and if the constituencies were made larger the best men might be led to spend more time' among the people. He looked upon it. as a great misfortune that Sir Robert Stout was now out of harness, and at present did not intend to return to the House, for beside him, and the members of the Government, there was no man able to take the lead, and go round and

“ v v ““ v b w address the people. In tlio-present Opposition Mr Ballance alone could be looked upon as a man of political influence, ability, and knowledge. Sir George Grey was now becoming physically incapable of the work-lie referred to. At present, unfortunately, there was no real Opposition party, no Opposition policy to gather members together j unfortunately, because a good Opposition is the life of the country. He would not refer to the doings of the paiet session, because the papers gave such excellent reporls that hie hearers were well informed of what had been done. Indeed, it would be much better, in his opinion, for the Government to subsidise the papers, and do away with Hansard. He, however, must apologise for his absence at the dose of the session, when a vote was taken on a resolution to appropriate £IO,OOO for the purchase of lands for village settlements.. He explained how he came to be absent, and that the motion was a surprise. It was strongly opposed, and especially by none more stoutly than Mr Thompson, member for Marsden, who declared that the scum of Auckland had been sent to the village settlements in that district. He was much pleased, to find from a recent speech by Mr Thompson that he had changed that opinion. He said that he had j ust spent some time amongst them, and a finer class of men he would not wish to scej their misfortune was that the soil they were placed upon was not worth 7s 6d an acre. The member for Gladstone also [opposed the motion on a constitutional ground, and there really was something in his objection that they should not ignore the Legislative Council by dealing with such a matter by resolution instead of by Bill. He (Mr Turnbull) considered the village settlements the life of the country to a certain extent, as giving men a chance to make a living. When the Premier was here the other day he accompanied him to Beaconsfield, and Sir Harry Atkinson could not but admit that the place was in a splendid condition, and the contentment of the people but bis practical good sense pointed, out the two defects in the settlement—the p'ots were too small, and there wore too many people together for them all to find work in (he neighbourhood. If the settlements were not too large, and were placed on good land, he would support the extension of the scheme, with all his strength. The Premier had promised to extend it, and he would warmly support him. Bespecting the attempt to restore the number of members to 91, Mr Turnbull said he had voted for the reduction to 70; he had even advocated a reduction to 50. He was still of opinion that 70 was quite enough to do the business of the country

(Applause), and if any attempt was made to upset that arrangement, he would oppose it. Sir Robert Stout was opposed to large constitutiencies as opposed to the interests of democracy, but be (Mr Turnbull) did not believe that was so, or that the system of large constituencies limited the choice of candidates to wealthy men. It was true election expenses were increased, but an electoral law would probably be passed to reduce the expenses. Ho did not fear that the country constituencies were antagonistic to the democracy 5 be believed country people were as liberal as any one who could bo called a democrat. He ‘ considered that the payment of members should be increased so that a representative could devote the whole of bis time, if necessary, to the interests of his constituency ; if that were expected of him £l5O was a mere sham. Mr Turnbull next referred to the proposed amendments in the EulcS of Procedure proposed by the Premier last session, regarding which proposal it bad been said the Opposition behaved in a disgraceful manner, and the Premier could not proceed with it. As a matter of fact many members of the Government party contributed to its defeat. The rules required some amendment to prevent" stone-walling," which was now carried to an excessive extent, and over quite trivial matters. Occasions did arise when stonewalling was justifiable, and some really useful speeches bad been made in the course of a stone-wall, but the system was abused. Its abuse could be very easily checked. There must be twenty members in the House or any Bill before it would be lost; and consequently they might see twenty members asleep on the benches or whiling away the time in any way while someone spoke four or five hours about nothing at all. This could be prevented by a rule that would close a speaker’s mouth if the bell were rung twice to call a House together. The other alterations proposed he did not consider necessary. The chairman had referred to charitable aid. It would be useless for him to enter into that subject as he did not know what the new Bill would be. It

had always appeared to him that those who caused the necessity for charitable aid should pay for it. There were 3000 people in New Zealand who owned the half of the colony ; these should pay the taxation required to support those who were distressed through their action, for much of the poverty existing was caused by the people being shut off the land. Not every man who was walking about the streets in idleness was fit to go upon the land, but a great many of them were, and they could not get on the land. Ho would be prepared to move an amendment to any Charitable Aid Bill on the lines of the present one, “ That the large owners of land bear the | burden of maintaining the poor.” The land was the source of the wealth of the country, and lie failed to see why any man should monopolise it. The time had come when there should bo some limit fixed to the amount of land a person should hold ; not by direct legislation, but by taxation. The principal thing he wished to speak of was the condition or the country. Be must speak of it in a way

that might be used against him in the future, but he must say what ho really thought about it. The Ministerial papers and others interested In property were making a great boast of the prosperous condition of the country at present, of how exports were increasing, and of how well the revenue from taxation had come up to anticipations. One leading journal went so far as to say that as the exports for the last quarter had been three millions they would reach 14 millions for the year. The increase in exports for the quarter was easily understood. There was a panic in shipping circles. Everybody thought there was not another ship to be got, produce went up and everyone was anxious to get it shipped away, and the coupcqueaco was that the whole of,

the wool was shipped in one quarter instead of its exportation being spread over a longer time._ The grain was similarly hurried awsy. This increase in exports was no proof of additional prosperity. Of course there was additional haste in shipping owing to * the « falling off in the bread supply in Australia, which gave a spurt to New Zealand for a

time. Ho was sorry that this had been lost; - that people had been so mislead by the : Press to expect famine prices. This was great foolishness, and those who advised the farmers in that way must have been aware that it was foolish, with India and California ready to furnish supplies. New Zealand had • • • • shut herself out of the market by excessive anticipations. As to the satisfaction expressed ; with the way the revenue had come in, nothing else could have taken place. If so much taxation is put on, and is collected day by day, it must come in, but that does not . show that the country is prosperous. The condition of the country was worse now than it was a year ago. (A voice s i don’t believe ■ f it.) Look, even now, so soon after the wool and harvest seasons, at the number of men walking about seeking employment and un- ' able to get it. How many families were * f there suffering in Timaru from distress, but made no outcry about it? There was a great deal.of distress existing at this early season ; what winter would be like remained to be soon/ It was no use talking about revival of trade and prosperity ; it could not come. Our groat export, wool, was not employing so much lobour as it did ten years ago. A little extra labour might bo employed in agriculture, but the introduction of machinery so lessened the demand' for labour that agriculture was not -of so much benefit to the country, as it - used to be. These were the chief things the .. country had to depend upon, to provide the •-

interest on the Government debt of 38 millions and the other millions borrowed by the people themselves. , Calculate the interest and it would be seen that the colony could not progress. What was the use of talking about the want of population ? Where had ' the population gone since he last spoke ? Driven away by lack of employment. There never could be employment for all so long: as the raw - material continued to be exported.••• There was so little labour required to produce - either wheat or wool. Take a station: how few men were employed upon it, and besides the shearing there was only the carting to the steamer. The three and a half millions that the wool export was reckoned at left nothing behind it, especially after the interest on the station mortgages had gone to England. That three and a half millions ought- to. make six millions at the veiy least, and this was allowed to slip through our fingers. The , colony produced about 90 million pounds of wool and consumed about 3 million pounds. ' and after sending this away' as raw material - had to pay about 2Si per cent to get It back again. Frolectiou could do no good. The country would not consume all its- raW’'material, if not worked up, and it would not bs exported, because labour was so much cheaper in other countries. We were, therefore, compelled to export our wool raw. Why - was labour dear in New Zealand? Because the climate was unhealthy, like Panama?. Because the population was too few ? Yet population was leaving for lack of employ- • meat. There was no reason whatever for' labour being dearer than elsewhere except the ; enormous taxation which fell upon the mass'-: of the people. If they thought this- over seriously they must find that to bo the only • reason: The enormous taxation was.the reason thatwages were high and that the colony - had to send away the raw material. This,

instead of employing 6C0.000 people, ought to employ six millions. England produced 7J- millions, worth of iron ore: Imagine’ -England exporting that iron, ore raw ; the Queen’s throne would not be worth three -' months’ purchase. England would be ruined; t England would make a very had bargain if <; she exchanged a year’s out-put of iron-'ore, worih seven and a half millions, for all the gold Hew Zealand bad ever ’pro* duced—forty->five millions worth. Think - what labour our raw material would absorb, and what a benefit a wiser policy would* confer by keeping that material in the conn* try. That was the secret of England’s’ success; that 7i millions worth of iron 1 employed a very large portion of the population.' Of course wool was not so good as iron ore in ' that respect, yet the working up of the wool' would make this one of the msst prosperous countries in the world. It could not'be worked up, on acooant'pf the enormous taxaon the people. This assertion might ' injure him in the future, but he must say it, for he believed it vas true. Let each one think it outfor himself. - High taxation-made -< high wages absolutely necessary. Mr Turnbull then gave some illustrations of the difference between the obst of living in Hew

Zealand and at Homs, in food, clothing, and rent. A labouring man who only got three/ days’ work a week was worse off* than a labourer at Home. Taxation through the Customs was peculiar in this that the first payment did not cover the whole. The draper ; mustihave extra capital on account of the duty, and must therefore have extra profit, and in some cases the tax was multiplied indirectly to an extraordinary extent. In England the policy was to concentrate the Customs’ taxation upon • as few articles as possible. The New Zealand tariff comprised no less than 230’articles. If New Zealand wanted to compete with other peoples, she must sweep away all taxation through the Customs except that on spirits, wins, and tobacco, things on which It wonld

he no hardship to pay taxes. Wages were not so high now as people said. If anyone advertised a situation vacant, at say £75 a year, he would get that room half full of applicants; if he advertised £IOO, he would need the drill-shed to receive them all in. Wages were not so great as they were said to be, and men deluded themselves into (he belief that they were getting good wages when in reality they were getting less serviceable wages than an arlizan at Home. A new policy must be adopted; a policy of bringing people here with capital, to start factories, people who would come with their money and not want the interest sent Home; and in a very few years the country would make more progress than in a hundred years at the present rate. The enormous taxation upon the people' now shut out much capital, and kept our resources, our coal and iron for instance, lying idle, and our millions’ worth of wool, worth no more than 3i millions, when it ought to be made worth many times that sum. If such a policy were established there would be no need to seek foreign markets for wheat or flour; farms and mills might be trebled in number, and then there would not be too much food for the people in the country. All this was shut out, and the people were paying heavy taxes to keep the country in a state of stagnation, when the whole course of things might be widely different. This was worth think* ing about. There was an alternative policy, the reduction of the size of holdings by laying oppressive taxation upon large holdings so that the land might bo brought within the reach of everyone. Agriculture employed a great many, but look at the difference in the value of the products 5 a pound of wool was worth a shilling, a pound of wheat but a

half-penny. There must be an immense amount of land now under sheep which was fit for agriculture. There had been 8,000,000 acres sold, and only 800,000 were under agriculture, the balance was used for grazing. “ Morton’s Encyclopedia of Agriculture,” showed that arable farming employs three limes the labour, and produces eight times the food that pastoral farming does, but because it docs not employ labour, men who have not sufficient capital to do anything better with their large hold* ings shut them up for sheep walks. The distribution of the purchased land in the colony was very unequal. 33,000 people held lands valued at £20,000,000 ; these included the moat valuable farms, those under 640 acres. Companies held lands worth £4,000,000. Then' 3000 persons held lands valued at £29,000.000. If land was really the only source of wealth, should any person have such an extraordinary monopoly of it ? Ha would not take away an acre from any man, by force. If he chose to bear a share of the expenses of the country in proportion to the share of it. he held, well and good. Ho was shutting up wealth; neither getting it himself nor allowing anyone else ,to get it. That was why agriculture was loss extensively carried on than it might be;, people could got land. “Go and get Government laud,” said some. But the' Government land that was left-in this island—was not worth Sa an acre. I» Uio NQtth lekqd tlietpe ft Wft*"

siderable quantity still available, which employed a good deal of labour, because before it could be used it must bo cleared of bush, but when cleared it gave a speedy return. Grass could be sown after burning,and the land would carry five sheep to the acre in winter and eight in summer. It took money, however, to go there, and there was plenty of room for all our people here asyct. Look at one of t he large runs near hero, a run carrying 45,000 sheep, employing only nine single men all the year round. The average taxation being £3 per head, that run yielded to the Government £27 a year. The same land would carry 3000 people, yielding a revenue of £9OOO a year in taxation. People should not be allowed to hold vast freeholds, hindering the country by loss of revenue, without contributing something extra to the burdens of the country. Until there arose a well-defined party to carry out these principles there was no hope of prosperity returning. This agricultural policy, however, would not employ many more people, it would only in- ' crease the exports. It was not likely that any proposal would bo made to mend matters; we should simply be expected to go on as at present. #lf the latter policy were adopted, where, it would be asked, would the money come from for the purposes oftheGovernment ? This was a serious question, but there was no use in seeing lions in the path where there were none. The people were required to find about a million and a half per annum. At the present spirits, wines, and tobacco, paid £600,000 a year, a large proportion of the whole. These taxes

could be very well kept on. The very fact of reducing taxation generally' would allow the large salaries paid to Government officers to he reduced; the cost of living would be reduced, in proportion,—by about 25 per cent, for although all articles were not taxed at that rate, the indirect multiplication of taxation must bring the average up to 25 per cent. A tax should be placed upon mortgages, a tax which should have taken the place of some of those imposed last session. The morlgagee reminded him of the busy bee that “gathers honey all the day and eats it up at night.” With this /difference, that it was not the mortgagee hut the mortgager who did the gathering, the mortgagee doing nothing but the eating. (Laughter and applause.) Mortgagees had been the greatest curse to this country. They induced men of energy and excitable men to take their money, but in taking the money they must take all the risk, and whatever happened the mortgagee must be “ secured.” How many a man who was now penniless would have bad a house of his own, or a farm of his own, but for these people ? Bring in legitimate capital as much as they pleased, but these money-lending drones who stayed in the hivo and ate the honey they did not gather, were the greatest curse of the country. He would put a tax of a half per cent on mortgages, which would produce £170,000 or nearly. Then, with free ports trade would bo much increased ; the railways would pay much better, and instead of being worked' at a loss would soon pay 10 per cent, even at low rates. The railways ought to pay for the government of the country. ‘ They had cost a large sum of money, but less than English lines cost, and they ought to be able to travel upon them at English rates. With the Customs tax on spirits, wines, and tobacco, and a tax on mortgages, there would not be such a serious deficiency as might be imagined. This policy could not be adopted now, the people were not ripe for it, but in the coarse of years it would be adopted. In the meantime the colony must blunder along as it his blundered hitherto. i

“ Mr Turnbull then closed his address, Laving spoken about an hour. In reply to questions, Mr Turnbull said that taxation was true land nationalisation. Be was not in favour of supporting a State Bank, unless the Government had, like the banks, the sovereigns behind their notes A State bank simply meant that they must take the Government note for work done, and in his opinion this was a method of obtaining a forced loan. It was a mistake on the part of Mr Bourne (the questioner) when he said that any private individual could coin money. As to the locking up of the land, he (Mr Turnbull) admitted that it had been a mistake, but all they now could do, would be to devise means to have it properly settled. , In reply j to Captain Jones, of the fire brigade, Mr Turnbull said that he was in favour of subsidising fire brigades. Be had supported such a matter last session, and had thought it very foolish when such a subsidy was knocked off. In reply to the chairman, Mr Turnhull said that ho was certainly not in favour of selling the railways to an English or to any other syndicate. He .strongly maintained that in the course of a few years, if a proper policy was adopted, the railways could be made to pay all the expenses of government, and were the very best asset that the colony could possibly have. In asking this question Mr Boss said that in selling the railways to a syndicate the colony could, he dare say, net about £BOO,OOO of a profit. At any rate it seemed certain that if the railways were thrown on the market to-morrow, they would realise such a sum as would greatly reduce the public debt. Mr Turnbull then, in reply to Mr Heelan, junr., said that he was opposed to soiling the railways to the English Government. In reply to Mr Owers, Sir Turnbull repeated that portion of his address referring to taxation on wines, spirits, and tobacco, and said that necessarily there would have to be a transition period, should the line of taxation that he had spoken of ever be brought about. The chairman then formally proposed a vote of thanks to Mr Turnbull for his address, and of confidence in him as their representative, (Loud applause.) The motion was seconded by Mr Heelan and by Mr D. Owers. The latter gentleman said that the interests of the electors of Timaru were quite safe in the hands of Mr Turnbull. Be (Mr Owers) would like to see a change of Government, but was quite sure that they could not have a bettor man than Mr Turnbull to represent them. (Prolonged applause.) Mr Turnbull, in thanking them for the vote, said that he felt very much flattered at what Mr Owers had said. Mr Turnbull added that if a well-defined policy was brought forward- embracing such proposals for instance as an income and land tax —by a party he would support them in every way, bathe was not simply going to turn out one set of men for the purpose of putting another set in. If such had been bis desire he could have done it last session, for on a motion by Mr McKenzie the Opposition had a mojority of two. Had he then-done so, what would have been the consequence ? Why, Messrs McKenzie and Menleath would have gone back to the Government, and the country would have been politically excited when there was not the slightest occasion for it. He would not lend himself to anything of that kind. A party with a well-defined line of policy would have his warm support, but as to turning men out for the purpose of putting others in at the same salary, ho would do no such thing. (Applause ) He then moved a cordial vote of thanks to the mayor for presiding, which was carried with applause, and the meeting closed.