"NEW BROOM!"

Poverty Bay Herald, Volume LXIII, Issue 19038, 11 June 1936, Page 11

"NEW BROOM!"

LABOUR IN POWER MR. FORBES' CRITICISM BROADCASTING DEBATE BILL FINALLY PASSED MANY POINTS ATTACKED ! (Per Press Acsociation.) WELLINGTON, last night. I Resuming the second reading debate on the Broadcasting Bill, the Leader I of the Opposition, the Hi. Hon. 0. W. j Forbes, said it was significant that | there was no expression of opinion I from members on the Government side of the House. He said that taking over the control of wireless was bound ! to affect its progress, and the change would not bring about any greater satisfaction than there had been in the past. Complete control was being given to the Government, and when it was learned how the Government intended to use it, it gave cause for apprehension. It was a case of a new broom sweeping clean, and some useful furniture might, be swept away in the process. The past Government had tried to establish a service that was free and unfettered, leaving the Minister the power of veto, and it had worked well. He thought commercial auvertising over the air was a retrograde step, and said that the power had been taken entirely as a weapon against newspapers! He objected to the State going into the market to sell advertising over the air, and said it was opening up a new avenue. It. would mean additional cost to the people, as one advertiser would be forced to take advantage of wireless if his competitor did so. He felt that the Labour Party on getting into office had .lowered their standard, and the fact that they were gohtg to have advertising over the air was a great fall from the standard set by the Labour Party.

"ONLY A BOGEY" -Mr. F. W. Schramm (Lab., Auckland East) said Mr. Forbes had stated that the bill established tyranny, am! he asked the House to compare it with some of the measures passed by the previous Government, and he instanced the threat of dismissal of civil servants if they criticised the then Government. lie agreed that the Minister should have control, and the talk of political control was only a bogey after all. All the control was that the political party in power appointed persons to positions they occupied. He thought the establishment of C stations, and giving them advertising, was very necessary, and he also agreed with subsidising 13 stations.

Mr. ft. t.\ Smith (Nat.. New Plymouth) contended that political con-j trol could not possibly lead to fair-1 ness. He thought New Zealand should follow the British system, which had me! with the approval of the people. The Government was changing the system without consulting the listeners, and many of the listeners who were opposed to the Government would be used to spread Government propaganda, and the House, was told that • that was fair and just. ! The bill, which seemed a simple one. was serting up a dictatorship in the hands of the Government, and he thought the Prime Minister would in time regret it. Broadcasting should be used in the national interest, and as a national service, but in future it would lie used to bolster up the Government. The Minister was just raking power to set up an .advisory council. He might not set one up. but if. he did establish the council, the Minister need not consult it. The Broadcasting Board had improved the position in New Zealand, and had done extremely good work, yet it was to be abolished. He had always thought B stations should be encouraged, and he congratulated the Minister on the provision to help them. OPPOSED TO DICTATORSHIP The Hon. F. Jones in reply, said that tho opposition to the measure came under four heads : The abolition of the Broadcasting Board', the granting of subsidies to B .stations, the use of license fees, and commercial advertising. He claimed that Ministerial control was a step forward, and said that Ministerial control had existed under the last. Government.

Regarding Mr. Coates' statement thaf the Government had had an agreement I with B stations, Mr. Jones said that all the time he was in the House the ' question of support for P. stations was ' repeatedly raised, lie mentioned the stations that had been bought out by the past Government, and other B station proprietors were concerned lest they would be forced off the air. At the present time, license fees were being used to subsidise stations. The Government spent more than £20,000 on advertising. Why should some of that not bo used for advertising over the air? It seemed

that the only fear of members was that advertising would be lost to the newspapers. The Government did not believe in dictatorships, nor did it agree with what was taking plp.ee in Germany. but references had been made to what was lining done in that country regarding the manufacture of cheap sets. Parliamentary broadcasts had assisted to popularise broadcasting, and be predicted thnt the number of licenses would siiow an increase during the present \ear. SECOND READING PASSED Regarding rents that were pnid for premises. Mr. Jones said that in Wellington, in all. for the three buildings. £1937 a year was paid. He did not say (here was anything wrong in that: it might be necessary. In Christchurcb £BSO was paid. Mr. Clyde Carr (Lab.. Tiinnru) : Too much.

Mr. Jones : T do not know. I am not judge of that. In Dunedin, portion of the Evening Star building was used, the amount paid being C 670. Mr. W. T. Anderton (Lab., Eden) : Scandalous. The second reading was challenged. but was passed at 4.20 p.m. by 40 votes to 19. The second reading division list was as follows :-

For the bill (49) : Messrs. Anderton. Atmore. Barclay, Barnes, Barrel!, C. 11. Burnett, Campbell. Carr. Chapman. Christie, Coleman, Cotterill. Cullen. Don ham. Eraser. Herring, flodgeus, Howard. Hunter. Jones. Jordan, Lnugstone. Lee. Lowry. McDongall, McMillan. Mason Meachan. Moncur, Nash, Neilson, Nord« inever, O'Brien, Peine, Parry, Ratana. Richards, Roberts. Robertson! Savage. Schramm, Semple, Sexton. Sullivan. Thorn. Webb, and Wilson. Against (he bill (19): Messrs. Bodkin. Broadfoot, T. D. Burned. Coales. Cobbe, Dickie. Endean, Forbes, Hamilton. Hardest. Holland. Holyoake, Kyle. Poison. Ransom, Roy, Smith. Wilkinson. WrightPairs: For the bill, Messrs. Coulter and McCoinbs; against the bill. Sir Apirana Ngata and Mr. Hcnare. B STATION SUBSIDIES The House then went into committee to consider the bill. Speaking on the short title, the Hon. A. Hamilton (Nat., Wallace) said most of the P. stations bought out by the last Government were poor insignificant sta lions, except two.

Mr. W. ,1. Broadfoot. (Nat., Waitomo) asked what stations, were to be subsidised. There were 21 of them, and the House was entitled to that information. What, kind of information Was to bo permitted and what, were Ibe advertisement, rates to be?

Mr. 11. A. Wright, (Ind., Wellington Sub.) sought information as to what was to be broadcast in the way of political matter. The Prime Minister had said that the Government speakers would say something that would help the country along. What did he mean by that? Mr. Savage: I can tell 'you in a minute. Nothing is reported from this side of the. House, because we want- the legislation to go through, but it is reasonable to think that something is being done to support our legislation, Iml that seldom appears, in the newspapers.

Mr. W. P. Endean (Nat., Parnell) said no one wotdd say the board would not produce better programmes than the Minister and the advisory council. The principle covering the judiciary was that it should be, free from political control, and the same principle should apply to broadcasting.

Mr. Clyde Carr (Labour. Timaru) asked if some arrangement were not entered into between newspapers and the broadcasting authorities that the newspapers would not use news picked up by shortwave from Continental and American stations if the broadcasting authorities did not advertise. He realised there was nothing on ihe department's files regarding the arrangement.

"ON BUSINESS LINES" Mr. Jones said that there would be a Department of Broadcasting under the control of a Minister, who could delegate some of his powers to the director, who would see that the Government's'policywas earned out. He assured the House that nothing would be put over the air from the Government commercial station that was not decent. The station would be run on business lines. No advertising rates had yet been determined and would not be fixed till the station was established.

Mr. H. S. S. Kyle (Nat.. Riccarton) said the Broadcasting Board was being wiped out, but an advisory council would be established in its place. What was the difference?

/ Mr. K. .1. Holyoake (Nat., Motueka) asked on what basis B stations were to bo subsidised. Mr. Jones said a survey would be made.

Mr. Savage moved the closure at 8.10 p.m., and this was carried after a division by 43 to 15. The short title was then passed by 43 to 16. Replying to further questions, Mr. Jones said that it was not intended by the Government to appoint a direct listeners' representative on (lie Advisory Council. The Government contended that members of Parliament would be able to represent the listeners very well. The- Minister might suggest to the council that it, should go into the question of staffing or into new buildings, but, in the main, its work would be to ileal with programmes.

NEW ZEALAND DIRECTOR Dealing with the duties of the Minister, Mr. Jones said he visualised the time when the Postmaster-General would still carry on the work of supervising the technical side, of broadcasting and the. new Minister of Broadcasting would luok after the cultural side. If at any time the Government was ol the opinion that a senior Minister or a Minister better qualified should till the important position of broadcasting if would be easy to make an appointment. All that had been done was to provide* for the position. Mr. Jones thought they would be able to secure a man with the necessary qualifications for director in New Zealand. The Government visualised the time when they would have one Minister supervising the technical side and another administering the cultural side. Mr. Wright said that he was sure there would be a great, deal of dissatisfaction among listeners, when they learned that the listeners* representative, was not, to be appointed to represent them. The Prime Minister said that it was not a question of appointing a board; it was appointing people to advise, the .Minister. Member.; of the council would be appointed because of what they knew of broadcasting, not because (hey happened to be listeners, nor because they happened to he organisers of the Reform Parly or of the Labour Parly. nr of any other party, 'the Government's job would lie to get hold of the right men or women and appoint them as advisers to the Minister or his subordinates.

"THE AGRICULTURAL SIDE" lie had told people all over the, country thai, as long as there was a board, listeners were entitled to be represented on it. but when this bill was passed the board would be past and an advisory council would be substituted. The council would be composed of persons to advise, not because thev were listeners, but because of i heir knowledge, and the Government's job would be to get people with that: knowledge. Mr." Broadfoot 'said the people who paid the' price were entitled to construct the tune at which they were to be taxed. . .

Mr. W. .I. 'Poison (Nat., Stratford) said the farmers had certain views on the question of broadcasting, and they were-of opinion that some representa-tives-of .their-interests should be on the Advisory Council. The Minister had said that one Minister would look after the cultural side. A voice: The agri-cultural side. Mr. Poison: - No; the Minister does not know ' anything about ' agriculture: • ' j Mr.' Polsoii went on to say the side the Minister would look after would be ;hat of "Kulfur." ; The Hon. W. Nash said there was a endenc.y to make Parliament a farce. The chairman of committees: The Minister must not reflect on u.e Chair., Mr. Nash: 1 am not reflecting on the Chair. He went on to say that; already there were departments such as the Pensions Department that vere controlled by two Ministers, and

thai might he the same in regard to broadcasting, but there was no reason why one Minister should not carry out wo functions. The bill provided an 'asy transfer should the need arise. PLEA FOR LISTENER'S

The technical side of broadcasting was associated with the Post and Telegraph Department, and the Post-.nnster-Ooneral was in charge of the scientific side. 'Then there was the other side, which was totally different. There was a splendid case for the listeners being represented on the Advisory Council, but there was no reason why every member of the Advisory Council should not be a listeners' representative. The council was charged with one thing only—to satisfy the demands of listeners. "Mr. Broadfoot: Will the Minister have the veto.' Mr. Nash: It is not a case of veto; it is a case of the Minister being in charge of the department. Tin l Minister has the last word. That is all Ihe bill says. The Rt. Hon. J. G. Co.'iles moved an amendment to clause ?> providing that the Broadcasting Corporation should consist of a Minister and three members elected by the listeners, and two

members appointed by the GovernorGeneral. The lion. I.). G. Sullivan described ihe amendment us a political stunt. Listeners would not be deceived by tactics of (hat kind. It was unadultereil humbug and miserable hypocrisy, for when Mr. Conies had the power to give listeners representation lie refused to do ii. The amendment was lost by 43 votes to IS. Opposition members protested against the abolition of the board, but the clause was retained bv -R! votes to Is. Mr. Poison moved an amendment to the next clause lo provide that the Minister should act onlv after consulting the Advisory Council. The amendment was losl bv Ft votes to 17. file clause was challenged, but was retained by 43 votes to IS. AMEN DM ENTS REJECTED. Mr. Broadfoot moved an amendment to clause ."> dealing with the appointment of a Director of Broadcasting and deleting the provision that the director shall hold office during the pleasure of the Govcrnor-General-iu-Couneil. He said that as the clause read at present, the director could lie dismissed at a moment's jot ice and he wondered what sort of a man would accept office under such conditions. The amendment was lost on the voices. A division was called for on clause (i dealing with the appointment of officers other than the director, but the clause was retained by 43 votes to 18. A furthor amendment that the

Advisory Council should consist, of a Minister and three members elected by the listeners and two others appointed by the Governor-General was lost b v 4 ""'voles to 18.

Mr. Kyle moved an amendment providing that the Advisory Council should meet as the council itself decided, not as the. Minister decided, but the amendment was lost on life voices. An amendment was moved by Mr. Forbes to clause 1- to delete the sub-eluu.se providing that moneys derived from the operation of the commercial stations should be paid into the broadcasting account. Mr. Poison said the clause was an attack on the newspapers. The amendment was defeated by 48 votes to .18. Coming to clause It, Mr. Forbes moved tut amendment to delete tho sub-clause giving the Government power to advertise from commercial stations. After some discussion on the lines of earlier remarks, the amendment was defeated and the clause was retained by -IS votes to IS. The committee- stages were completed and the bill was reported to Iho House without amendment, read a third time and passed.