SIR JAMES CARROLL.

Poverty Bay Herald, Volume XLVI, Issue 15079, 29 November 1919, Page 9

SIR JAMES CARROLL.

Tlie Hon. Sir James Carroll, , who was received with vyarm applause, said vthat his- colleague had* covered; the wider-. range of policy of the Liberal party during its long tenure of office, and that saved him going. over the same ground. He expressed his appreciation of * the loyal -way k ihe party truce ' during*' the war had been observed,- and referred 1 to the able manner m which the leaders had served-, the country during their visit Home. When the coalition ,was discontinued the Reform leader filled the vacancies in ' the Government from his own side. There was nothing .wrong m that, but to hear the shrieking from Reform lips one would think they had been left m the, lurch. They had no liking for* the '■Liberals. ■ Ail', along it .,. "fad. VEefttf ioid -, th'ey* w^efop n&d ' all .the main portfolios, excepting that of 'finance. Far more- on the Conservative side than on 'the' Liberal side were declaring themselves! '.'lndependents- •' becaase they were dissatisfied. If the j Massey Government possessed all the ' virtures the rank and file would, not be j taking that stand. There were now the \ three parties, Liberal, Reform arid ..j Labor. Liberalism had increased the settlement of the land, developed the resources of the country, and encouraged , the. people m various 'walks of life, spreading the benefits . over the masses of the people. When they came m they, had, changed the incidence of taxation, repealing the Property Tax Act. When the Liberals came m labor was m a very precarious condition, the country being almost bankrupt. Some of them had neard of the soup kitchens and the wages ranging from 3s 6d to V2s 6d per day. Labor was invited to* co-operate with the Liberals. For the. first time m the history of this country Labor members were nominated to the Upper IJouse, and a new era was opened up for the masses. Since then, they had Labor members m the House— fine intelligent men, too, on the average, equal to other classes m the House. The speaker went on to refer to the development of 'and effected, and the cutting up of . large estates, mentioning the Iqcql settlements. Voices: "lb toqk 21 years to do it. Why not buy more?" Sir James Carroll: How many years has it taken, the Reform Government to buy any? (Applause). They have bought none at all. Voices : Why not buy Opou and Waipaoa?, The chairman : Questions wi\\ he answered afterwards. Sir James Carroll said they certainly wanted ta push flhead and obtain more land; for settlement. Then m regard to Native lftnd. They saw many new , faces to-day j many people did riot\ know of the great trouble m the early day 3 through defective Native land titles^ many good people being ruined thereby. Southern papers had referred to Gis-; borne m those days as the Sodom of the North. A Liberal Government legislated to enable indefeasible titles to be obtained, and hundreds of thousands Vof acres of land were thrown £ open for' settlement. Someone had said there were four millions of acres of virgin land within £0 miles of Gisborne. Anyone who said that should go and have his head read. Voices : It's a nightmare. (Laughter), Sir James Carroll: t^s, it is. The Liberal po.ligy, l*,a continued, had stood, an.d tbej cpvqd not take One brick from the edifice. Mr Dayis ; Not from Balance's time. , Sir James Carroll: Not -from the days of RaMance ? Seddon, and --right through. It had taken some people 21 years to find out thqt anything had been done. Thejf s&id that the district had not progressed. Why, no other district had progressed so much. Surely sorne^, Ofcvernment was responsible for thftt, apart from the energy of .the people. It appeared that there would be a triangular fight all over the Dominjgn. The Liberals had never shifted ground excepting to a-dvancp, the Liberal flag always being $ sheltey to the incases} monopolies were nq' \ise. \q fthy coup try. The wealth of the cotnuvV should be so directed that ', the vi^HaiH^ flow would reach all human nnits. The* Vßefovm party could .be judged bh ita post. ( Voices: No good). Th# Mbor .'party ' claimed that they coidd gOVerolihe country by themselves. They wo.uldjbring-t- Vr voices: Instruction. Sr'Jkmes^rroll: Oh, no; construe- ■ tiort and induction. Thoy were' much mdbbted to^he La^o? party for new . ide*§. He fex& ■•* on |o refer to the ■ IJ}»wlFH'?Jy, and expressed confidence ■ tha| the eltcters would declare m its , .fcppr, ynffrtunately H ! Seeded as if

parochialism was lo be the. centre o. th<i light for the Gisborne seat. His- «t pouent-.had said it was a question wha the former had done and what he l(bi Japies) had not 'done— action against m action; that he had gone into so man, great things, he. "had become great out aide, and would also, become great insidt Ho. said he liked. Jiim (Sir .dames) ver„ much, but the country wanted a stron t man, a man who would make the spark ily. (Laughter). Weil, what had M Lysnar'.. done if (Voice:. We'll see yo .get m). He certainly raised a Boroug. toan-rrheVisT nob. a. gentleman who hiat his light behind a- bushel — and he bt lievea if they inspected, all , the -Boroug. loans he (fciir James) believed .th e y wou^ftnd it lo.ibe one of the dearest. The what did. they >get " from .the grea scheme? They got a couple of miles o tramline, and a creditable dfainag •■system. Then*, friend was- a, great geo*o Vgist, who knew more than tlie scientMi ■men, and made people believe there /wa an everlasting supply of metal at Genti Atmio ;. quarry. . A tramway was lai ■down.j- and the result was a heavy loss tthe Council. -Ho -would tackle^ anything ',110 .matter* what the-, result- would by •He. also placed; on the ci*edit side th •free?iing'woi'ks. (Voice:- Good man, tooj : -Yes; = but he was- not .the only . pebb*- • on. the ; bench. Other works had beei started*— at Tokomaru, and they wci : constructing -works : at Hick's' Baj Combinations of men must go into sue. subjects to deal with the produce. H deseCyed-cyery credit lor pushing- it on . he (tho. spoakerj \y.aß'-'only.. ; tqfiching . oi these things because hia opppnent ha paraded: them. He .took ..credit -for purchasing a ship. They, all- hoped it woul , be a success, becauso dt ; .would,bo a goo*, tiling for tho country; but supposing i gob, wrecketl. (Voiced;: Insurance). Bu what about, the • meat ?- Other companiesif approached, might tell. them to go aiiv buy another ship. Now,; if -the. freezin*. works of the Dominion- had com!biue«. and gQt a number of ships -it would h'avt been', a good i thing. ' They were uj against, a combine with tentacles spread ing -overy where. It was a -tremendous power against- one ship, the singlehandedness beingthe risk; He hoped il 4 ; would be successful. The fact that thi had been reduced with over} ' redistribution ■at tho end *of each live years showed- that the district had progressed. Mr "Lysnar sajcl they woult have to go back 26 years to see what hi (the speaker) had done, " yet Mi . Lysnar was one qf his strongest support I ers live- years -ago. (Laughter). Hi '■•aid that tho Native Land Act was onlj '" brought m- to validate tho Wi Peri -' Carroll Trust titles-— an insinuation tc * which he objected — that lie (Sir James, had brought m legislation 'in order tt secure -titles to the Wi -Pere— Carroli Trust. That was unfair. -He had m interest m ;any. of those blocks: *; . A company that had taken over the land : becamo insolvent. There was a debt tt the' 'bank; of £157,000, and the land was. being sold. The; blocks were* handed over to. Wi Pere , and himself m trust to . pay off the morbgage. They found the bArderi too great, having no capita, and 'having ; no means oflraising it. A Trifst Lands Board was established anc eventually merged into a. Commissioner The result was that 80,000 . a'cresi oi rough bush land was brought into set tlemertt. Yet V there,, were people whe saidaiothing had been done for the dia trict. V ... , , '..'.' y V ' '; " Sir James went .on to refer to lain settlement generally, and what had beer, done. For the past 7^ years not much progress had been made on the. -railway line,' .. ■• ..' VV ■;,' • ... V.oice : How many men .were on befort tliat?: ' ■ V ..... *;.... Sir James Carroll : Over. 600. . Voice: Thirty now. . „,-■■• Sir James : Well, you. have the differ ence, between Liberalism and •-, Reform (Laughter). He,. said- Sir .William Frase: had rightly, said there had been a shortage of .labor! .. With r.100,000 ,of : our man hood away allowances must be made Why, one union alone, the Wellington watersiders, had 300 men, leavo voluntarily. (Applause). , They must, he continued^ get the .Crown and other land? qpcnetl up. There, should be. land to suit different men,- bush.lantKfor som< and tiliable/soil.for others. . Mr Clark's land had been mentioned, and Opou was good. . yThe offer: of,; Waipaoa. ;had not been taken. • ■•■•-,.- ■■; ,'*;*,-. Voice t, . At £10 an acre,' , invested m loan funds.. . ,>• „- , Sir James : A good bargain. .'.- Voice: Much, better .than Repongaere. , Sir Jtfmes said,...that showed the difference 'between, the; old .and the existing regime. Tliey. would . have hail that 49,000. acres, and •might not have taken Rfepongaere. : Hft added, m reference to an interjection about high prices of land,* that good land was not dear, and said that; if large holders -, would not sell, land that Avas required for*, closer settlement ■-: should bo taken. . -.".'. ;:fTho speaker concluded with a peroratioiiy.expressing that, the old Liberal fll&g would be on ' top when, the "election "was. over. .He was accorded enthusiastic applause.- !.;-;'. --■ , .-... QUESTIONS... Questions twerc, invited, and as ; reported; elsewhere, a. number -were forthcoming, and. were duly answered. The chairman ] ' Mr Dartpn,,. m • the coutij.e of ay brief , 'but telling speech, moved a hearty' voto of .thanks and confidence. '„_*,- ..-'..'' VJC'hisi, \vas seconded m two places by Messrs Wall, and Davis, and was carlied ' miariimously, ; . ,"•... HonVW. D. S. Mac Donald addressed a. sympathetic audience at Waimata^, yesterday,, when -.IVjr: -%i. Wade presided. -A[iiev' his.addr.ess a- vote qt* thinks .'and cp.tifiden'ce, *v»;a's carried' on the motion of-Mr. M. J. Wade, seebnd-OfL-by Mr M ,W. Jqiies. ' jMr. JifacDdhal'd speaks at Otoko tonight.., :;../. ."Whv ai*o deputaiions irom/ the district '„p ut to. the Hon. W. "D. S.- Macl>k>nald' instead. >of . r &> ; v James . Cari*oll ?" rfsked.an electdt qf Sir James Carroll at Matawhero-' Tasb , night. Mr Mac Donald remarked ho had been, a Minister; aud things naturally . came to hhn. S'r, James Carroll (4,q the. questioner*) : "Give .ait- instance.. r when and . where?" The e^eetoi! .;,.*' Always." 'Sir. Jaipe^: "Have ypil. beenjojj^ the ; depu|rat*i9n..qy, are you sptiakipi? from i. heat-say .? , '-^'-'I read the papers..;"— Sir: .James ;,-. "Why, caannqt we >v.ojlcr in*, harmony?, . What, is your ' objection?," . ...,.., „,. „ -...,. ' _'". ."Is. it right a nian 4Q miles .out should have;tp* subsidise -.his mail, pervice?" aijk-c-i.Jvri^GW K^o^th^.„H fi! i!,UV. D.- s, AlacJJoiiaid at^Mataroka las.t. ii'ght. •"^Oi". "^he-V^-fPosthi-ifiter-.Gen-eral, who*. added he;h^ / „gfyi*.!i-;the'6ubj-ept, much attention... Owing to ; the {^•cab increase, m mail- services the Department had been; put inya difficulb position atnd sometimes things had been

>ut through without consultation. He lid not believe m backblock settlers laving to subsidise their mails, Jjgcause j tio Department was a. payii^^tt^ fie iad. given directions that smKßm-*lfbVo lot to he cut down, hut CBxr^b%cfni even ; f it cost, two or three times as much. ' ■Ie hoped the new -Government would npe out thoso subsidies. Mr Kirk : 'You did not do it jyhile you were „m lower?" Mr Mac Donal d: "No Miriiser of tho Crown can alter the policy of v Government alone. When the two * Parties joined it was agreed "there was o be no alteration of policy, and wo had o abide by the existing Government ■olicy." In" reply to a further question •c sarid the population was m the larg- j st cemita'c-s and got tho fullest consider.'^ion. He would nou -like to. pay • for a] 'aily service to somo of. the backblock,**. Ie would go as. fa,r. as .possible, but had oi keep within the* bounds of business. Vould. the questioner accept a £75 rder which would cost £175 to de- , iver? (Applause.) j Jn moving a vote of thaniiks and con- ■ dence to the Hons. Sir Jas. Carroll and y*. D. S. Mac Donald at Makaraka last •ight, Mr Geo. Barton emphasised tho jriport-anc'e of tho ejection. The war, •c said, had placed a tremendous burden tii -AheV- country ; it had increased . from '82,006,000 to £172.000.000. The burwas to be placed on -the shoulders f someone. The question was on whoso houlders? Was it to be on those who, <>u!d best afford - to pay or the struggling • ettler? That question, would be decided by the party returned to- the Treasury eiiches. To meet that, taxation thero '-lust be' extra production.-. The people : ...ver&--to decide the ...principle this counry, was to have m more ■ production — i nono poli sing the land or by '".clqscn. settle- ' nont. It was for the people; to work it nit. It was' not the two candidates - ••resent — its was the people who had to lay the piper,- . and they-, should, -know ?ho was gpinig to pay the*.., biggest 'whack." . Then there iyer© plenty of uen wanting to get. a bit of land. They vould have to decide under wliich party Miev wero likely to get a bit of land. 'A. voice: The Liberals.) It- was for the leople to decide who was going to get 10-operation amongst the workers *o « 'ide the country over its troubles. j Asked by Mr G. E. Jones at Ma -J | 'caraka last -evening if 1.i.p. , tenants ( -hould not be: given on exteiisiam of ; 1 ime m which to- acquire the freehold, i_ '"he- Hon. W. D. S. Mac Donald sajd that;' tie freehold was first given .under Dr. ! McNab's Act of 1907. Mr Massey alter- i >d tlie price from. present day value to; trigiiial value, plus 1 per cent., and gave the right only for five years. That expired kisli December. This session J soldiers were given an extra year but ho j 'Mr Mac Donald) had urged they should : be given five years. If Mr Massey was ! such a gi'eafc freeholder he would leiave \ t open till the ''expiry of the lease. He j was confident the day would come when j that woutd have to be done. It would . be giveai; effect to, even if- Mr Massey***; did not. • I "I am not prepared to say whether aril elective executive would be ' a good l thing Or not," remarked the Hon. W.-D-.j S. Mac Donald' at- Makaraka last night. J "But we. hiive had four years of 5*7 a? L tional Govewurient'. . There was no party ■ m the House but the National Governiienib was the target of all. It had /no friends. I don't think anyone who has 'iad four years int the National Government is desirous of an elective executive. I would no+i liVe to be m one." i "If you wart for the Conservatives to subdivide estates 1 for settlement you will wait till! the crack of doom and f hen it won't be accomplished. "—Hon. W. D. S. Mac Donal d-ati Matawhero: 'ast -night. I . "I am. just as much against extreme ■ Labor as I am against extreme, Con- j servatism." — Hon. W. D. : S. Mac Donald. ' "I hope whatever Government ■* comes : nto power is a Government of the rteople and for the people."— Hon. W. i O. S. Mac Donald.. ;• ■ ' V • {.. "The good woi*lc of the Liberals is forgotten by some. I know men who were strong Liberal" 25 years ago, when they carried- their swags and were male- ; his their start on the land, petting their . ifvrst advances* from- the Government. To-day some of r these men say.: 'But, Mac, .we've, got,- property, amd "there is taxation, and we want to biff. you Liberais out.' (Laughter.) If yon want to vote Conservatism and monopoly, ' vote" for .Reform. . On the other hand. -equal opportunity for ala is the watchword of Liberalism m this and any other country where : it is properly carried , out." (Applause.)— Hon. W- D.S. MacDoiiald at Matawhero. ' j "I have. been' asked as a farmer why ' do you have . anything to do with tlie Liberal party." remarked the Hon. WD, S.v Mac Donald last, night,', "I would , never have. been a- farmer- but for the Liberal party. (Applause.). And, l and others would still' have had tile privilege of carrying our swags: and looking over the ..fences; of the big fequatters."-, (Laughter,, aaid applause.) „-....;... ' "I am .not going to wear any mask,'' announced .the. Hon. . W. ,D. ■ ' S. MacDonaid- at Matawhero last evening. "I wjsh>t6 state .that I. am not an Independent or any- other such breed.' I wi-sh to ktate straight out djliat I am a Liberal. (Applaus"?.) We. have- «,ome gentlemen going , abput under a mask. I. don't thank that, is a very good, start; \ r ou want to start) on a basis of. truth. " (Applause.) There, were a. great many peoplo who said tliey did .not: like party Government at all— they wanted -strong, i men. Every man •'. who was returned to Parliament was absolutely independent so far as his -discussion m the House was concerned. The only • luesiio^ a member-'.- was asked was ' 'Where «x© • you. on ■• • a *> no-confidenice motion?" andi a -man had -to an&weir that. Otherwise -it/man was absolutely independent — there was no curbing of members . on-, either side ' of the. .House. But these, people, \vho -were proclaiming as. independents, these men '.who were going to teach; (Parliament its business— well these, gewbienien", would* be taught- something themselves., if they got into the Houso. (L,aughter ' and applause.) . . '.-■ .'',.-' ;''.,; . ■