NATIVE LAND PURCHASE.

Poverty Bay Herald, Volume XXXIV, Issue 11056, 23 August 1907, Page 2

NATIVE LAND PURCHASE.

AN INTERESTING DEBATE.. (From our Parliamentary Reporter.) WELLINGTON, this day. An interesting discussion upon thc Native land purchase policy of the Government, past and present, took place m tlie House late last night m consideration of tb.fr Committee's report on the Maori Land Settlement. Amendment Bill. Mr Fraser considered the amendment wa9 a very necessary one, because there had been a difference between the Treasury and Land Purchase Department, and this would put any doubt at rest. The Native Minister was quite right m bringing down an amendment. W hat he rose, prmeipauy to say, however, was to protest against the reprehensible manner m which the Crown purchases had been carried: out m the past, and to-day they found that many of the Natives who were now drawing old age pensions was thej result of iniquitious purchases of the past. Since 1905 nearly 100,000 acres liad been purchased under the . operative clause. He had been responsibly informed m many of tlie purchases this safeguard liad been absolutely ignored. By this insatiable .greed for land they were building up and perpetuating the curses and, evils of the past. The Government valued to fmrchase for themselves; the market was United to the Government, and consequently the prioe of the last few years had been m the direction that law and justice said it should be. Proceeding, the, member for Napier went on to quote, from a report of one of the Native land purchaser, whose business appeared to be to beat A Ja.e Natives down and to do everything'not in 'the -interests; of the- Natives, but jo obtain cheapness m land. He gave one instance of where certain land had been acquired at 15s per acre, wluch he admitted was worth £1 10s : per acre, whilst other bush land with milling tim- ' ber was pm as low as 7s od per acre. The leSS^, Jihey learned fromthis was that if timbw-^glttir alone were put into the market it woidd bring m £15 Ser acre, yet the Government, the guarians of the race, were only giving 7s 6d per acre for the timber and the land. Were they acting honestly? He did not v want it said he, was always finding fault, but he would be equally wrong if he were to sit still and say nothing about it. Nothing more scathing was ever written than that penned by the Chief Justice and Mr Ngata m their Royal Commission report, and that which they referred to was equally true to-day. The Crown made no allowance foi nulling timber. Better opportunities J would be afforded to deal with these matters referred \o m the Commission's report at a later date. As a member of the Legislature and a trustee of the Natives, he would be criminally liable if he did not make these comments. Certainly the Crown should not purchase any more lands. Let them complete their ' purchases pending, but only under the Maori Land Settlement; Act, With its protective clauses. As to the future, let the Maoris go into the open market and get the highest value, whilst a sufficient area should be ensured. Then there should also be an improvement m the present abominable and expensive system of leases. The Crown m purchasing would, he admitted, owing to expenditure on roads and railways through the country, be justified m purchasing at 10 and 15 per cent, less than thie private individual, but bush areas were daily becoming more liable to destruction by fire. I( Natives desired to dispose of their timber rights, there should lie some ■ tribunal which should confirm such sale or lease of the same as it did m regard to the transfer of it. He was sorry he had to speak at such length, but hoped it would be of benefit to the Natives of the colony as a whole. ■'./.'" Mr Ngata said he thought the previous speaker was quite right m drawing the attention of the colony to the purchase m the TTJTig Country; His opinions were already made clear m the report of the Native Land Commission. It was hardly realised that the cause of the present deadlock m Maori lands was what happened from 1893 to 1899. They had a large area of virgin Native land m Waiapu stretching right round the East Cape, which was generally considered not available for settlement. In 1892 the land was all before the Court, but the chiefs, as a protest against the price and system of Crown purchase, went and absolutely withdrew all their blocks from the Court. Thus there was a quarter of a million acres of some of the finest grazing country m the colony withdrawn, tor the Natives saw that this was their only safety if they desired to reserve their lands. Thus, since 1890, these lands had been held until to-day. Beyond Cape Runaway, there was a block of 1500 acres wliich would have come,, before the Court years ago but for fear on the part of the Natives from the effect of clothing their, lands m titles, which only meant that it would afford the Government an opportunity to acquire their lands at a low ' price. This was what -was underlying with the Ureweia people m their hesitation to have their lands brought before the Court,- &r-thej^ha4~«en evidence of Crown purchases m this neighborhood. There was m the Urewera Country a million acres of fairly 'good land. In regard to the present measure, the Minister had disarmed criticism, by assuring the House that it was only intended to complete the purchase of lands at first under negotiation.. When. instructions were issued to complete these purchases, he hoped it would be borne m mind that the King Country lands had been reported upon by the Commission, and a recommendation had been made as regards the disposal, of some of these very lands. Some of the blocks they recommended for sale, some for leasing, and the balance all at the wish of the Natives for reservation for their own use. H the Government decided after full consideration of the Native land question to continue the purchase of Native land, and to some extent he had an amount of sympathy m that direction, but if it was done it should be on the ruanunga system, which would remove many of the objections of the Natives. Under tub system they would ascertain the wishes of the owners as to the sale of a particular block, and a portion of the purchase money would be set aside for the benefit of the owners. This would be done by the Land Purchase Department coining to the ' House and asking for a, particular block of land to be declared Grown, land, or it could easily be simplified. An hon.- member : How would you assess the value? Mr Ngata : The same way as is done under the Land for Settlement Act, by an Assessment Court. Crown purchases m the past had been located m places where the Maori was weakest, near the publichouse, and m the earlier days he had known of thousands of acres changing hands over the gambling table, not that the Crown purchaser was present, but he was close at hand. This was before the legislation of 1905. In the King Country the purchasers had actually to go outside the prohibition country, and the complaint was m the King Country the Natives went out of the prohibition area and wasted the whole of their purchase money around the hotels. These were the sort of things they must see did not recur. (Applause.) Ht was not so much the disposal of the land they had to provide against, but it was tlie degradation of the race. Mr Herries said he cordially agreed with the remarks of the member for Napier. There was no doubt great injustice had been done to the Maori race because of these land purchases by the Government. There was also no doubt that tlie Maori m the old times got more for his land when purchases were not restricted to the Crown, and it was unquestionable that the pakeha offered still more, as he had to pay not only to the Maori but to Maori agents and the lawyers, more m some cases than the value bf the land. ITiere ought to be more expenditure on the part of tlie Government m cutting up Maori properties already bought. Mr Heke said his remedy was this, the cessation of Crown purchases from the Native altogether. No matter hew they dealt with this question, they would always find the errors of tlie past creeping m. They might try and create iome means by which they/could check certain methods of getting at the Natives, but the mind of man was too strong even for any barrier they might erect by legislation. Tlie only remedy was absolute cessation of Crown purchases. The Native Minister, m Teply, said it was customary now on Native Land Bills to traverse the -whole policy of Native land purchase legislation, etc., for years back. The present Bill was simply, as he had previously explained, to remove a doubt as to the" validity of Crown pur-

chases m: respect of divided interests. However, the debate liad extended to the disposition of lands of the future, to the full catalogue of crimes of past Governments. He was not there to defend the Governments of the past. They had made the best of their duties as they could m response to the pressure brought to bear on them. They might have done better, but as to recent purchases being the cause of so many Natives being on the old a ge pension list to-day, h© must disclaim any' responsibility. There were many influences. There was a wave of desire to dispose of all tlieir lands, which together liad combined to do far more evil than the Acts of the Legislature. Since 1905, bowever, tlie purchases of land had been carried out under much fairer conditions, and instructions had been issued to all the purchasers to arrive at a fair value to the Natives, and, he held, when thoy took all the circumstances into con- ' sideration, the price paid had not been very far behind a fair. value especially wnen one took into- consideration that the Court was justified to acquire at 10 to 15 per cent, less than the individual by reason of expenditure of public money. It did not fall so very far back as to call forth a general chorus of disapprobation. There was also, it should be remembered, room for a wide variation m the real value of land. It may be that m some instances there had been bush land purchased containing milling country; then they should have given, more for it. but he could not always accept the qualification of milling bush, for often times it ■was not worth putting mills into. They to fix a fair price -for the land, but did not go m for timber. As regards the Wanganui land mentioned by the member for Napier, m this instance the only thing they had to guide them was. a certain block which had been laying x idle, despite the title was land transfer, for years and years. People wouldn't take it up, but at last a large sheepfarmer from Gisborne came and acquired the whole area at 12s 6di This was why the neighboring block was fixed at that value. Under the Act of 1905 they had purchased 102,109 acres m the North Island, which averaged £1 per mCte, but-only one block of 11,006 acres had been* completed. The reason why it was not cut up was because it had only jnst been purchased, and before it could be thrown open they luid to decide upon a scheme of cutting up, surveying, roading, etc. .He ventured to say the surveyors would be on this block, however, this summer. As to the future of Native lands, • he quite agreed with what had been uttered by the member for Napier, that they should shut down on private dealings between Natives, and private individuals. In fact, he had proposed that m 1905, but' was 1 unable to carry this point. In the future they should shut down on private dealings. The disposal should be by private^ auction or tender, and through^ a, statutory body. Reservation^ also .should be made for Natives and a portion of the purchase money retained for the benefit of Natives, which would come m very useful for a strenuous effort -to assist the Natives on their land. If they had not their own money, give them some on the security of their own land. . If they were going to establish a Maori tenancy, they would have to assist them. He wanted to do aWay mth individualists, as they would never open a single section. Tlie Bill passed final stages.