POLITICAL.

Patea Mail, Volume IX, Issue 1174, 9 April 1884, Page 2

POLITICAL.

HON. MAJOR ATKINSON AT PATEAThe Harmonic Hall was well filled Inst evening, when the Hon Major Atkinson delivered a political address. The Mayor (Mr R. A. Adams) was voted to the chair, and bespoke a patient hearing for Major Atkinson. Major Atkinson, who was received with hearty applause, said it was once again his pleasing duty to come before them and render an account of Ids stewardship. He did not propose to give them any account of the doings of last session, but after they had heard what he had to say he would be happy to answer any questions. He proposed that evening to call attention to several matters of importance, upon which it was necessary the electors should make up their minds because they would probably be called on to take action upon them before any action could be taken by the country’. As Treasurer, they would naturally expect some account of the Depression in tlie Country. Terrible stories had been going about ns to our financial state and probable bankruptcy. There was a deficiency it was true; it amounted to about £170,000. It seemed a large sum, but when they considered bow it bad arisen, he did not think they would be dispose! to be frightened. The deficiency was chiefly caused by a falling off in the Customs of £120,000, Railways £BO,OOO, and other sources, including Post and Telegraphs £20,000, The Property Tax was about £15,000 more than the estimate, besides which there would be a saving on the votes. He could not give the exact figures, hut the deficit would be about the sura he had named. The deficiency in the Customs arose partly through economy and partly through the fall in the price of wool. It was a difficult matter to estimate, but he thought the Colony had lost from £400,000 to £500,000 on the sale of wool last year. Many persons were interested, and as a consequence they had less to spend, but he had no doubt that had wool maintained its price there would have been no material falling off in the Customs. It was a serious loss and there were no means of recovering it. On the other hand there had been a rise in the price of sheep, which he regretted had not been felt on ihisconstyet. but elsewherein the Colony it had been felt. Still, if a runholdcr’s sheep had risen three shillings each it would not come to bin in spending power but would rather be added to his wealth. There had been a falling off of £60,000 in the Railways and the expenditure had been under-estimated by L 20,000. That arose through the more rapid decay of sleepers and carriages 'han was anticipated, and the maximum cost of renewals would not be reached for three or four years yet. The estimated revenue was £1,020,0011 and they only received £960,000 ; the, estimated expenditure was £685,000, but it really amounted to £656,000. As far as he could see there was nothing to be frightened at, for if they would turn back to the year before last they would see that a farthing had been taken off the Property Tax and the Armed Constabulary had been for the first time charged against revenue instead of loan. Now if that had been done this year they would have had a surplus instead

of a deficit, hut the money was left in the pockets ot the people. There was however, enough, as prudent men, to make them examine their expenditure and endeavour to look the deficit in the face. First of all there was the Civil Service. He was only speaking ot salaries, not the great wages paying department, the railways. The total amount in tound numbers was £460,000 of which Customs, Justice and the Post and Telegraphs absorbed £237,000. Practically in none o( those departments could reductions be made, and the Customs were collected for a less per centage than in almost any other country. In the Post ami Telegrnpbs there was great difficulty in making reductions, as every place where there ware a few houses demanded its post and telegraph office so that unless settlers would forego ilndr privilege or necessity, Government eoulil not make much saving. The Justice Department had cost L 20,000 or L 25,000 more to collect debts than the fees amounted to, and it was a question whether they should increase (he fees in all Courts. It seemed to him that if the Slate collected debts, the Stale should demand fees equivalent to the cost of collection. Civil Service.

Last session Government undertook Civil Service reorganisation. He had spent a great deal of time over it, and would be prepared when th»* House met to submit a scheme. Briefly the proposal would he as follows: —To reduce the Under-Secretaries to a definite number, to he fixed by law—about eight; and to group the whole of the departments under them. No fresh department to he created without the express consent of Parliament, The clerks in the service would be divided into grades, each grade to have its maximum and minimum salaries. Ail persons to enter ns cadets after undergoing a competitive examination, anti to advance from one grade to another, to be decided on after examination as to the person’s fitness for a particular office. This would secure a cheap am! efficient service, and to make the service thoroughly contented there must he pensions and retiring allowances. There was groat objection to pensions as regulated under the old system, hut there was a great difficulty which was making itself felt in the railway service, owing to the impossibility of getting rid of men who had faithfully done their duty but. were past service. There was also a difficulty in providing promotion, The result was that abler men sought employment for their abilities outside the service. He hoped the House would consent to a scheme to compel civil servants to make contributions to a fund which would make provision for them when they should become unfit for work; the same as was done in the Indian Civil Service with such great advantage to the service and the public (Applause). Hospital find Olia,x*italt>le

A id. The next matter was charitable aid. Upon that they wore spending a large sum annually, including (lie hospitals, something like £IOO,OOO, and since Government took over hospitals local communities had been gradually dropping off. There were some exceptions notably in Otago, but generally the hospitals were coming upon the Consolidated Fund. He would like to see the electors take that tip and say that if the State would give £1 for £1 it would be the duly of localities to make provision for their sick. In that way they might save about £50,000 a year. He thought (be Benevolent Societies should not provide for these sick people, but their efforts should be confined io a different class, such as heads or mothers of families, who required temporary assistance to get them over a difficulty. He should soon have a Bill for a general Insurance scheme, which, however, would take some time for the people to consider. Ho felt very strongly that they should not impose anything like Poor Rates, (applause), and until they had some general scheme it would he wiser to pay the amount out of the Consolidated Fund rather than have local rates. Armed Constabulary. In referring to the Armed Constabulary, he said that a saving could be effected there. The native difficulty was not what it was, but it had not disappeared, and mismanagement might bring it on ns again. They could reduce the Armed Constabulary to 500 men, but it would not be safe to go below that.

Education. As to the Education system, the people of the country were proud of it, but it cost a great deal. The cost of primary education was £284,000, of which £21,000 came from reserves, and the balance from the consolidated fund. The cost of secondary schools, excluding fees, was £26,000, of which £22,500 came from reserves and £3,500 from the consolidated revenue; and colleges and universities cost also £26,000, of which £B,OOO came from the consolidated revenue and £IB,OOO from reserves. So that the total cost of education from the consolidated fund was £384,000, and that was exclusive of interest on money spent on buildings. Since 187G £600,000 had been spent on school buildings, yet the necessities of the positron had not been overtaken, for in some districts there was not sufficient sitting room for the children, ami the applications from the School Boards amounted to three times the money at the disposal of Government. If the interest on this £600,000 and an allowance for depreciation tor buildings (another £30,000) were added, it would be seen that the expenditure on education was something like £400,000 a year, without making any prevision for new buildings, on which £50,000 was spent last year, and £82,000 the previous year, and in respect of which there were now demands for £150,000 to meet what were termed by the Boards necessary requirements. The education given was not more than was demanded by the people of the country, and be saw no way of reducing the expenditure so long as the present demands were

kept np. To give the education given at present, whether it was through private people or through t!io State, it could not be done for less. The only opening ho saw for reducing expenditure was by withdrawing the extra grant of 5s to the Boards, but tlu-t would only bo some £l5,U')O or £I6,GUO a year, and the difficulty was that probably the first schools which would have to suffer would be the small country schools, and it would be a bad tiling which would prevent people who went out to cultivate the land obtaining a reasonable education for their children. The amount set apart for education buildings out of the last £3,000,000 loan was exhausted, and he did not think that the House would borrow more for such a purpose. The question was whether the money for building schools should be borrowed, raised by general taxation, or by local rates. He thought that one of the two lattercourses would have to be adopted. If the school age of children were raised from five to seven there would be a savingof something like £50,000 a year, but this would full principally upon the small country schools. It might lie worthy of consideration whether there should not be difference of treatment, as between large centres of population and country districts. Speaking for himself, but not for'the Government, he must say he was not satisfied with the present system, but he knew he was in a minority, and that the doctors of the colony wore determined to maintain the present system ns it was, let it cost what it would. Finance.

The charge for interest and sinking fund on loans was between £1,500,000 and £1,600,000 a year. During the last year by the conversion of loans £BO,OOO a year had been saved, and as the Imperial Government did not require further payment of the sinking fund on the guaranteed loin of 1856 another £IO,OOO had been saved—in all £40,000, just the amount payable in respect of the last £1,000,000 loan. Railway Rates.

He then referred to the increase of railway rates and defended the action of Government. The rates were reduced some time ago as an expeiiment, the revenue at that time from other sources being elastic, but the experiment had not proved a success. In the Home Country a slight reduction of fares added another class to the travelling oublic, and increased revenue was the re.-nll, but experience had shown that the population of New Zealand was not yet sufficiently large for the same thing to be experienced here. The ralis had therefore to be increased again, the Government being driven to this course by the circumstances that while month by month there was a loss on the lines, other revenue was also falling. The railways were not returning two per cent., and if the low rates had been continued tlmre would have been from £50,000 to £60,000 more of a deficiency to make np. Government had power to raise the rates, and ho ventured to say that Parliament and ttie country, would say that they had only acted right in doing what they had done. The. country, he believed, was determined that the lines should pay so long as I lie tariff was not made bnrdensurne. The Canterbury people had made the mist die of persuading themselves, or allowing tbernselnes to be persuade 1, that the lines were local property, for that was the point which underlay the whole of the agitation. Apply that to the Post Offices and the Telegraph Offices, and Justice Departments, and the result would bo a splitting up of the colony into little districts, weak districts being allowed to do the best they could while strong ones grow stronger. What was the public works system for if not to open np the weak parts of the colony ? Strong ones did not require such assistance. If it was argued that directly a district was populous enough to make the railways pay four or five per cent, all profit above that was to go into the pockets of the people in that district, then it must be acknowledged that the New Zealand people wore not prepared to do their duty ns colonists, hut were merely striving to secure particular benefits to each of their own little districts. This was in another form a repetition of the old claim that the land fund belonged to the people of particular districts rather than to the people of New Zealand. He held that the railways of New Zealand belonged to the people of New Zealand, and that the profits were to go into the pockets of the people of New Zealand rather than Into those of people residing in particular districts. If the farmers of Canterbury ten or twelve years ago had been told that their grain would be carried at the rates now charged they would have been perfectly contented. In the old provincial days the charge for carrying a ton of wheat thirty miles was 8s 7d, whereas at the present time it was but 7s Bd. Was not that a low and reasonable rate? Under the rates before the recent increase there was no profit to the Government, though there might bo if the grain traffic had lasted nil the year round. The traffic was peculiar, for, though it was confined to three months in the year, very heavy expense was necessary to meet the requirements of the farmer at that particular time. He and the other members of the Government had gone into the matter as carefully as possible, ami he was certain that the colony would not make much out of the grain traffic even at the increased rates. The amount of increased revenue from class E, which included grain, was £40,000, while other classes made up the increase to £IIO,OOO. The railway revenue during the current year would be but three per cent on cost of railways, and the money to build them cost about five per cent. He ventured to say that the electors of the colony would not be satisfied with less revenue from the lines than three per cent. As to a nonpolitical board, it might be necessary if 1 Government were liable to be turned out

of office because they framed a tariff wlucti would malco tlie lineas yield a fsiir percentage upon cost. If a non-politi-cal board were set up, ho ventured to think that the direction given to it would he that the lines should be made ta pay so much per cent., and that the hoard, noting like a company, would not fix differential rates to suit particular parts of the colony, but would get their revenue from wherever it might he obtained. He sympathised with the Canterbury farmers under their present circumstances, but ho was convinced that when they came to look at the question fairly, and to compare the amount payable by them with that eharired for all other goods, they must admit that the charge was reasonable, and had not been imposed in any arbitrary spirit. Mr Montgomery had told the people that this was class taxation, hut if he dared to put. that view before the House in a resolution it would be negatived by a very large majority. Our Position.

Having directed attention to these matters, in which there might be savings of expenditure or additions to revenue, he would point out that every thing rested with the people themselves. Democratic comitdes were not usually economical countries. Members of the House would talk by the hour about the desirability of reductions in every possible direction, but the moment yon put your finger on a policeman yon wore fold that the country was going to be mined. It all rested with the people. They must tell their members what they would have and what they would nolhave. In season and out of season he had preached that the responsibility rested with the electors, hut he could not get them to believe it. As the people so the Parlia ment ; as the Parliament so the Government. If the people insisted upon their members studying economy, economy would he studied. He had said that there was in the deficit nothing to frighten or dispirit the people. He had come to the conclusion that there was no real depression, that the colony was perfectly sound, and that the spending power of the people had not been seriously diminished. There was no doubt that there was severe commercial depression. The Customs returns showed that on luxuries, such ns spirits, tobacco, and English a!c the falling off was about 8 per cent., whereas the falling off on necessaries of life was about 10 per cent., from which he drew the conclusion that the people had become less wasteful in the necessities of life, but that there had been no serious diminution in the spending power. The deposits in the. Savings Banks had fallen off by £75,000 as compared with the previous year, but, on the other hand, the deposits in other Banks had increased by £300,000, although the Government deposits had decreased during that time by £140,000, so that it would seem that the people had not had to draw upon their savings. He spoke in a general way, being aware that many influences affected these calculations, He also pointed to the fact that there was little or no diminution in building in the country, that fresh lands were being taken up for cultivation, that large sums were being spent on amusement, especially horse racing, which seemed to indicate that when people wanted to spend the money there was always plenty of spare cash to be found. Then payers of Properly Tax ha«\ increased by 2,400 as compared with the previous valuation. Still the fact remained that there was a great deal of commercial depression, which he set down to overtrailing, over-importation, and a tendency on the part of persons to take np more land than they could profitably use. In reference to the private indebtedness of the colony, he pointed out that while the mortgages amounted to 30 millions, of which 15 millions was advanced by colonists, the value of real property was 100 millions, and the mortgages were, therefore, only 30 per cent of the value of the property, as against nearly 60 per cent in Great Britain. Government 3?oiiey. As to the poiicy of Government, he had already pointed out what they were doing in regard to the Civil Service. In respect to the question of the electoral law, he might state without going into detail that Government had come to the conclusion that the larger towns should at any rate he consolidated into single electorates. The reason for that was that small electorates were more likely to be led away by mere local considerations, and he believed that, the step proposed by the Government would be taken with the entire approval of the different, divisionsof townsand would give more general satisfaction than the presen system in towns. It was recognised that the electoral rolls were in a very unsatisfactory condition, and proposals would be made to Parliament to secure the periodical purging of these rolls, and to make better provision for striking off the names of these persons who were not entitled to be on. With reference to the land policy of Government, it had been their endeavour to see whether a belter title could not be found than that of the ordinary freehold tenure. All who had considered the question know that it was agitating the minds of men in almost nil communities. In (he old country it had been necessary to limit the power of contract between landlord and tenant, and when once yon had got to that it was only a question of degree, and not of principle, ns to the right of the State to interfere in the freehold title. Government, with the approval of Parliament, had been trying the experiment of perpetual leasing as well as that of deferred payment, but of course the deferred payment system was practically only a deferred freehold, and as far he was able to judge, freehold tenure was not giving satisfaction, at anyrate in the old countries, where the population was thick. What would be the ultimate tenure it was impossible to say. A good deni had been done in the way of settlement within the last four years, 4000 leaseholds and 7000 cash purchasers having taken up land during that time. With regard to the Crown

Lands, ho considered that they should experiment with porpotunl leasing- upon that land, and Government had come to the conclusion to soil no more pastoral land Imt to retain that ns an estate for the colony for ever, anil in future if it will let in smaller blocks, rents will bo enormously increased. Native Policy.

In dealing with the natives, the Government policy had been one of justice and firmness. Their opponents and some of the. newspapers took them to task in not being active enough in suppressing the native difficulty. Government had mot very great difficulties, and even now the natives were uneasy. They took no advantage of the Native Courts, because they feared the land would be taken from them. Government bad therefore come to the conclusion to resume the pre-emptive right, and will ask Parliament t> pass a Bill to enable natives to sell their land through the Commissioners of Crown lands, or direct to the Government. Public Works.

With regard to Public Works, Government would continue to push them steadily on. The question of borrowing would not immediately arise, because they bad to raise a million of thc L 3,000,000 loan ; but ho bad no doubt they would have to borrow some day. He would like to see the electors put it off as long as possible; but having borrowed, the money should be lied up for the particular works for which it was borrowed, and not devoted to outside expenditure.

Mr W. Williams: How can the electors control it ?

Major Atkinson : Well that is just the rub. The electors are responsible for the expenditure. lam the servant of the electors of New Zealand, and if I am an unfaithful servant they should turn me out at once. They would never have good representatives or a real national parliament until electors recognised the importaneeofthcelections. He considered (ho choice of a representative almost as important as the choice of a wife (laughter;, and he repeated that until the electors recognised this, they would have people in Parliament who should not be there.

Mr Williams: Suppose wo are in a minority ?

Major Atkinson: Then you take your fate like anybody else. The business of a minority is to turn itself into a majority, and if they worked hard they would probably succeed. He hoped they would all recognise the fact that as arc the electors so is Parliament.

Conclusion

In concluding his remarks, Major Atkinson, said ho was very much obliged lor the patient hearing they had given him. He had touched lightly upon the subjects, but he hoped he had said enough to set those present thinking, because upon them depended the settlement of these questions. The electors should set the example of expenditure in public and in private, because Government in attempting economy had only to touch a policeman and they were immediately told that man must not go. Where they had attempted it they had received letters and petitions in every case and although everybody liked to talk about economy it could not be carried out unless they elected a Parliament that would support the Government when they saw that reductions could he made. The first tendency of our Education was that all wanted to escape work in the country and put on a black coat to become c'orks or something of that sort. With the electors rested the duly of combatting this feeling and he hoped to see the day when the dignity of labour would be recognised and when mechanics would take a different position in what is called society to what they do to-day. He said that in this colony the people had a larger margin for expenditure than any other country in the world, and they had the power of making New Zealand one of the greatest, happiest, and most prosperous countries in the world. (Applause).

Mr Lett; Wbat about Federation and the Trunk Railway ?

Major Atkinson: I forgot to speak about those. With regard to the North Island Railway, survey parlies are out to obtain information. One line has been got through South to Marten, and one North of Wnitara, which he believed was very good. The line from Stratford was not yet through. The Minister for Public Works starts to-day from Marton, and after he has gone up that route he will come down the other, unless the weather should prevent him, in which ease he will go on to Auckland, but will afterwards come down to Taranaki. He will form his own opinion, and Government will estimate the length of line, cost, and the country likely to be opened up. Various stories are going about to the effect that both Mr Bryce and Mr Mitchelson me strongly in favour of the Central route, while I am determined to have the North Route, so that you see there is a preity kettle of fish. All these stories are untrue. We have kept ourselves entirely open and free, and shall consider the question on its merits. With regard to Federation, I am going shortly to make a speech upon the question, and will only just touch upon it now. We found that the French practically claim the whole of the islands in the south sea between here and Panama. Lately they have taken possession of an island named Rapa, which has an excellent harbour capable of fortification that will make it impregnable. Lord Granville says he does not admit the claim, which is satifactory, but the French flag is flying there which is not satisfactory. This is done by a nation which does not colonise, and I would ask whether it is wise that our trade should be at the mercy of a foreign nation. If you refer to the debate in the French Senate in 1841 you will find that it was said that if they could get a footing in these seas the Panama canal was sure to be made, and then they could command the trade. There is no doubt they have kept that quietly in mind. Then we see they have determined to deport to these seas twice convicted

prisoners, and thesearenot kept in prison but are allowed to free. X say tbe people of these Colonies won’t submit to it, when they would not allow their own Government to do the same. What was done in Victoria when convicts were sent there ? They just put them on board the ship again and sent them back. The Homo Government recognised it, and did not attempt it again. There is a large party at Home who thought tnat the Colonies should bo no expense to them, but he claimed that we were ns much a part of the Empire as Devonshire or Kent. Unless steps were taken the French would, when the Panama Canal was opened, dominate these seas, and our merchant ships would be at their mercy. The Home Government would have to increase their fleet, and we should have to get a fleet of our own. What the recent Conference desired was to constitute some body which should be able to speak to the Imperial Government on all matters of Imperial interest in those sens, and it was a problem that must be solved. Australia will federate by-and-byc, and the Home Government at present says that they would treat with us as a whole, but not separately. Meanwhile France is carefully advancing, and our Government is practically doing nothing at all. As remarked before, Australia is bound to confederate when local jealousies have subsided, and if we do not join the movement, they may tell us to go with our insignificance and or greatness, and say “We will have nothing to do with you. We will take the trade and leave you to yourself.” We cannot have that. It is said that this is not our business, but we are noted as one of the richest colonies in the world, and do you think we should be let alone. We are not too insignificant not to be wanted by another nation, and how better can we be defended than as part of a great Empire. Sydney had recently spent L 40,0000 at the request of the Admiralty, to accommodate the vessels there. Victoria had torpedo boats, and wo ourselves had a few torpedo boats, but a single privateer could enter our chief ports now and lose us millions of money. Major Atkinson said that ha should shortly deliver an address upon the subject, and would forward copies to most of those present. He had intended spending two or three weeks in the district, but his public duties, and especially in connection with the Civil Service lately, had absorbed so much of his time that it was impossible; and although apparently he had been neglecting his constituents, he had been doing a higher duty which he trusted would be of service to them.

Major Atkinson was loudly applauded upon resuming his seat, Mr W. Williams said he did not feel very clear as to how the present debt of L 170,000 was to be paid off. Major Atkinson had said it was not a very serious matter, but it appeared to him (Mr Williams) to be a serious matter. He had not seen that Major Atkinson had proposed any plan by which to meet the deficiency. Major Atkinson said ho conk! hardly go into a financial statement now, and he had not yet cosidercd how he should meet the deficiency. They had to make up L 170,000, but he did not think they had gone back. All that had taken place was that the public had not paid so much into the Treasury as was anticipated, so that they had got so much in their pockets. Government may have to take it out. (Laughter.) Mr Williams, whose question was partly inaudible, asked Major Atkinson if it did not strike him that we arc not in such a good position as we should have been. He bad said that he would have liked to have spent two or three weeks in looking at our prosperity, but wc had been prospering backwards. He (Mr Williams) thought Government should find some way to get money without squeezing it out of the people’s pockets.

Major Atkinson knew of a good many Treasurers, but he never knew them to raise money by any other process than by taking it out of the pockets of the people. He denied the statement that this district was going back. Times were hard, but if they looked at all the facts it was impossible to say the country was going back. There was great commercial depression no doubt, but he saw nothing to dispirit them. There was enough to make ns consider where we can save, and if they felt the pinch seriously, great savings could be made if the electors insisted upon it. Saving was only possible in (his way. The country was not overtaxed,and compared with others the average earnings in this country were larger than in any country in the world. As to squeezing, why we could squeeze out our national debt without getting dry. Mr Williams was surprised that the Government had not found some other way of raising money. Sometime ago he (Major Atkinson) said that land available amounted to about L 100,000,000. Could not the Government trade upon that without its being thrown into the hands or private individuals? Major Atkinson thought that the State would finally absorb everything, bat if he seriously proposed to take-over our banking institutions he should probably stand in a majority of one with Mr Williams at his back. Government could not at present go into the banking business.

Mr Barton asked that as it was generally believed that in the neighbourhood of the ranges between Lake Taupo and the West Coast there were goldfields, would the Government afford any facilities or protection to any prospectors. Major Atkinson ; No; Government .would not be disposed to offer any j facilities at present. | Mr Barton : But suppose a company were organised, and at the consent of the neighbouring chiefs a certain district might be put aside, and the consent of the chiefs having control over that district obtained, would the Government then throw any opposition in the way of prospecting. Major Atkinson : As soon as Government were satisfied that no native com plications would arise they would bfi

prepared to give every assistance, but they were satisfied that any attempt to prospect would delay the opening of tbe country for a length of lime. They would i-sk everybody not to attempt it, as it was sure to fail.

Mr Barton would ask another question with regard to the Gaming and Lotteries Act, He thought it was pretty well acknowledged that the object of that Act had failed. They saw newspapers bristling with advertisements for raising large amounts for gaining. He would ask if Major Atkinson was in favour of imposing penalties upon newspapers inserting such advertisements or abolishing the Act. Major Atkinson: Government intended to make the Act very much more stringent, and if they did not abolish the totalisator, they would probably prohibit the advcitiscments, Mr Williams: You say you don’t hold the same views as your colleagues upon the Education Act. Are your views altered ?

Major Atkinson: No ; I speak for myself. I have always held the same views.

Mr Barton : I believe some L 50.000 were set aside for school buildings in tliis district. X don’t know if X ntu right. Major Atkinson explained that that was incorrect. The vote w->s 1j50,000 for primary schools ami L20,U00 lor Native schools.

Mr Barton : [suppose it was “ Native Schools, etc.that misled ns. Are you aware that a large number of Native Schools are being used as granaries and dwelling houses. Major Atkinson : Thai’s news to me. I was told by a member of the Education Board, well informed upon the subject. Major Atkinson: I am very much obliged for the information, ami I will look into it.

Mr Hughes saM that the question of economy had boon spoken on at some length. He was a strong believer in such n policy. When they looked at France after the Prussian War ami saw how she rose out of her difficulties by exercising economy it was a great encouragement. But he would ask when they were expected to exercise economy, public and private, were the House willing to share the burden and part with their honorariums. Major Atkinson could not answer for what the House in its wisdom might do, His experience of the House was that they had no intention of abandoning the honorarium. The tendency was to ask for more. In two separate Parliaments there had been a majority for L3UO a year, and be had had difficulty in defeating it. But he had no doubt it was coming, although he should resist it. There were those who hold that Parliament would not be efficient until members were paid and they were quite as capable of forming an opinion as he was.

Mr Hughes asked Major Atkinson’s opinion as to the relative merits of Parliaments prior to the introduction of payment of members and at present. Major Atkinson did not think Parliament had detonated as a whole, nor did ho think the present Parliament inferior. The difficulty was that there were no principles dividing the parties ; it was merely a question of confidence in men, and the House was disorganised. A similar state of things sometimes arose in England, when the House was Said to be unmanageable. Mr Hughes: If under the present system a superior Parliament was not produced, would it not be advisable to return to the old system. Major Atkinson did not think it followed because one Parliament was not better, that other Parliaments were to be the same. New Zealand was settled by picked men and in the early days they were prepared to go in. It was a mistake to compare the present Parliament with them, because the circumstances are so different. The 30 good men that originally composed Parliament, would be lost among the 90 of to-day. He did not think the triennial parliament was satisfactory, but it would be unwise to make a charge until they saw if they should got on better. Ho feared that next session the members would be restless as they would imagine their opponents were canvassing the constituencies, and be would like the electors to turn it over in their minds whether a triennial was the best Parliament. Many 7 who supported it at first bad come to the conclusion that it was not. Mr Gibson : When economy is to be the order of the day is there any chance economising the salary of the Gorerr nor.

Major Atkinson could not answer that. He thought the Governor fully paid, but the colonies ranked according to the salaries paid, and it was desirable that we should rank ns a first-class colony. In that case ho thought a couple of thousand was not worth considering, Mr Bright, amid loud applause, asked if there was a good reason for fencing the inhabitants of this town off from the most convenient entrance to the Railway Station.

Major Atkinson knew of no reason. He would undertake to look into the matter. Mr Barton : As yon arc no doubt aware the Public Works Act provides that no compensation shall be paid for land taken from a public body, A large amount of land here bad been taken by the Government, Are yon not of opinion that it is unjust when persons bad put up buildings on the land that they should not got compensation, and if yon arc of that opinion, do you not think the law should be modified ? Major Atkinson: If it were not a lawyer speaking I should say that was not tho law. I always understood that if a tenant built ho always obtained full compensation . Mr Barton : Against whom ? Major Atkinson : Tho Government. Mr Barton : I nm aware that able lawyers in Wellington do not take that construction. Major Atkinson : 1 think you will find compensation is always paid. It may not be the law, but it is the practice. Mr Williams had very great pleasure in moving a vote of thanks and confidence in Major Atkinson. Mr Tapliu seconded. After the Major bad replied to a question by Mr Aitchison, the motion was put and carried with applause. Major Atkinson thanked them for (heir vote. He said he should he a candidate for Egmont as long as his friends desired bis services. If they told

him they knew of a man who would servo them better, then lie would be happy to part good friends. A vote of thanks to the Chairman closed the proceedings.