ELECTION EXPENSES.

Otago Witness, Issue 3773, 6 July 1926, Page 25

ELECTION EXPENSES.

SIZE OF CONSTITUENCIES ELECTION PETITIONS. A LABOUR ART UNION. WELLINGTON, July 2. When the Minister of Lands (the Hon. A. D. M’Leod) presented a return of voting at the general election to the House of Representatives to-day, a number of members were found willing to discuss election expenses, honoraria, the size of electorates, and other kindred topics. The Leader of the National Party (Mr G. \V. Forbes) led off by suggesting that the Reform Party in the last election had relied rather on its large fighting fund than on platform work bv its supporters, though he did not agree with another member’s estimate that it had spent £400,000. If it had it could not have Kofc value for its money. A suggestion ad been made that each party should make an official return of its expenditure, and each of its candidates shoul have a portion added to his expenses. _ There had been some correepondence »ith the Minister end the Electorel Department, but the chief electoral officer did not enoourage the suggestion, considering that he was concerned only with a candidate s personal expenditure, which was not allowed to exceed £2OO. . The Prime Minister: There is nne thing that the hon. member omitted—the increased cost of living and whether the £2OO should not be increased. Mr Forbes said he agreed th«t many items of election expenditure, especially motor car hire, had gone up considerably. Still, he felt that each political party should be required to make a return of moneys spent and a limit should be set. Mr’ W. 8. Glen (Rangiti-i) asked whether the returns of voting s- different places indicated that a re-allooation would be necessary, especially aa between the North and the South, Islands. The Leader of the Opposition (Mr H. E. Holland) aeked the linister whether any provision were to be made this session to meet oases of election ties, sue i as had occurred in Westland and Lyttelton. The two petitions had not been private onos but had been necessary to decide who had really been elected to the seats. He waa not referring to the casting votes of the returning officers, though -ach had been cast contrary to precedent against the sitting member. The point je wished to makf waa that the candidates petitioners, and respondents alike, had been made by law liable for the costs of Dtooeedingt for which they were not responsible. These costs should be a matter, for the country, and not foT the individual member. The Government had eomperv sated Mr Lyons, the Reform candidate for Lyttelton, by paying him the salarv of a member up to the date of the court s ]' t ment. He did not obiect *- that, thou-h he doubted whether there were any legal Wa The"prime MhiistenWe could not help OU Mr'Holland: But he was never elected. The Prime Minister: He was declared Cl Mr ed HollaTtd said that if the payment ■were justified the Government would also have been justified in making good the loss of the other candidate and those of the two candidates in Westland. He knew that there waa a danger of setting up precedents, but the country undoubtedly should bear the expense in s,,ch I J as %-. Respecting election expenses, Mr Holland thought that m many cnees the £2OO limit was not enough. In the cities was quite sufficient, but not so in the reunify electorates. “I think.” aa.d Mr Holland, opening up still an “ t ‘‘® r rti p “ ln t t ’ “that we ought to require all parties to publish a full list of the donations toward their party funds. People ha veil right to know who are supporting the different parties. Every penny received by the Labour Party was accounted for and made public. , , Mr Coates: In every case? Mr Holland: In every case, and it the Prime Minister challenges it— — Mr Coates: I am not challenging it. I am surprised. That is all. Mr Holland: If the Prime Minister were to publish his party s list the public would be more surprised. Mr Holland said that it was clear that the advertising the Reform Party l ' lc * ?*• the last election cost thousands of poutids, and he contended that the names of those who contributed the money should be pubCoatee: Curiosity, that is all. Mr Holland: It is not curiosity. The Hon. Mr Stewart: Some people Prefer to do good by stealth. Mr Holland: I am glad to hear the Minister admit .that his party is resorting to stealth. I hope he is lot suggesting that the people who gave the money stole it beforehand. Mr Holland added that Oil one occasion Mr Stewart had sneered at the names of some of the foreigner: who contributed to the Labour Party funds because he could not pronounce them. Mr Stewart: I was chaffing. Mr Holland: I am gird to hear it, because there are foreigners who subscribe to the Reform Party's funds as well, and the only difference is *that those who subscribe to the Lfbour inds wear bowyangs, and those who subscribe to the Reform funds wear silk hats. Mr Coates: Did you ever wear bowy*Sfr Holland: I did when I was a boy, and I would not be ashamed to do it again. Mr Coates: We have still » few supporters among them, you know. Mr Holland: Oh, yes. You will remember that once I remarked in this House that the intelligent section of the Labour Party voted for -he Labour Party. The subject of the future representation in Parliament of the South Island was next touched on by Mr Holland. He considered the North Island would hava to 6et the representation it waa entitled to y its numerical strength, but said that because of the expansion of the South Island electorates a situation might arias in which only a wealthy man might be able to represent them. Mr Noaworthv: Why not make the life of Parliament five years?

Mr Holland: I don’t think that would help at all. Mr Potter: Why not raise the honorarium? Mr Holland said be was not suggesting raising the honorarium, but he thought there was a good deal to be said fer the Queensland scheme of paying partly according to the size of the electorate. Mr T. K. Side/ (Dunedin South) foresaw a difficulty in assessing correctly the amount of money expended t>y a candidate upon a campaign, as, for instance, the use of a friend's motor car, but he thought the spirit of the law should be carried out in respect to this matter. Rather than have a definite statement from the Minister in connection with southern electorates he would prefer to await for a decision till after the Minister had been approached by a number of members of the House. It was intended to have the position discussed by northern members as well as those from the South Island, and some concrete suggestion made to the Minister.

Mr Sidey said he believed that there was hardly a necessity for a five-year census, and declared that under the complete system of recording under which the Government Statistician worked a 10-year census would give the information required with sufficient accuracy and frequency. He would prefer to see a scheme evolved under which the north could have adequate representation for the increased population. The Hon. D. Buddo (Kaiapoi) stressed the difficulties in getting through the large electorates in the south, and complained that boundaries had been altered without any rebutting evidence having been taken. Mr D. G. Sullivan (Avon) supported his southern colleagues, and asked for a restriction of the amount which candidates should spend on their campaigns. Mr J. Horn (Wakatipu) said he had been elected three times for the largest electorate in New Zealand. With £2OO for election expenses, it was impossible to do justice to his election. One day’s travel by launch and car now cost him £25. On one occasion there were two booths in his electorate at which in one. election the ballot boxes did not arrive until the hour of closing the poll, because the launch conveying them had twice to put back. At the last election he had only 24 days on which to speak at between 70 and 80 places. In such constituencies as his the. allowance should be increased beyond £2OO. The papers were arriving every day and there were advertisements in them to vote for his opponent. He could not have replied to them without over-running his expenses. One candidate had told him that nis expenses would not cost him a single shilIjug, but he (Mr Horn) had contested the elections three times and had not got a shilling from anyone. If he went away from Wellington for a week to go through his constituency he had to travel 1500 miles. Mr Horn also complained of the expense and want of comfort of living in Wellington* .H® s l e Pt jn a boarding house and had all his meals in Bellamys. The lodgings in Wellington were uncomfortable and expensive, and he advocated the building of rooms attached to Parliament House so that members could occupy them during the time Parliament was sitting. Mr H. L. Tapley said something should be done to prevent the dwindling of the South Island representation It would now lose one or two seats and in time to come its constituencies might be eliminated. It might drop down to 20 members. The only way was to increase the number of members as a whole, though that would not be a good way to get, the work done. At present the South Island membeishm was only 30. and it should not be allowed to go below that. The Government should propound some scheme to keep the figure up to -hat Mr T. E. Y. Soddon (Westland) said he did not agree that a precedent had been created by the vote of the returning offier who had not exercised a casting vote, but who had recorded his solitary vote. Mr J. M'GVmbs (Lvttelton): It says casting vote in the legislation. Mr Seddon agreed with a suggestion that the vote of the returning officer should be cast a month before the election, to oe opened after the election in the case of a tie. He referred to an art union on the West Coast which, he said, was being run for the purpose of swelling the Labour Party funds and to pay the expenses of the defeated Westland candidate and the successful apoellant in the l vttelton contest. Mr H E. Holland (Leader of the Opposition) : That is not true. Mr Sneaker: Order. Mr Seddon: The official organ of the narty, the- Grev River Argus, is advertising it for thpt nuroosc. Mr P. Fraser (Wellington Central): That is incorrect. Mr M'Oombs (Lyttelton): What does It matter If It were? Mr Seddon: Only this, that it in said that these men have been put to huge expense which they have not been called upon (o pay Mr Seddon complained that many peonle who wanted to rote in Hokitika ns absenr voters were deprived of doing so on account of the ignorance of the returning officer on the law. While this had affected him it had also affected his opponent. Mr J. M'Combs (Lyttelton) explained that the returning officer waa place 1 in a similar position to those who were employed and paid by candidates. They were deprived of a vote on the day of the poll. A returning officer who was employed outside the electorate In which he was enrolled, however, could vote as an absent voter and In the case of a tie. The expense in connection with the Lyttelton •eat litigation had been caused through the neglect of a public official In the person of the returning officer. Mr M’Combs quoted several cases in which people had applied for enrolment and the place names on the carda had been altered In pencil, while In some cases the witness to the signature was an elector in another electorate. Altogether it waa unfair that auch a big expense should have been caused through the ignorance and inefficiency of theso officials. - In respect to the art union which It had been declared waa being run for the purpose of defraying the litigation coats, the coats had already been met from the party funds as far aa he was concerned, and the art union waa not yet drawn. He waa assured by his colleagues, however, that the advertisement referred to by Mr Seddon waa not aa had been stated. Mr H. 1. Holland: No. it la nothing of the sort.

Mr M‘Combs: Jn any case. It is beside the point. A public man should not be mulcted in costs to the extent of £4OO in the case of my opponent, and £220 in my own case through the negligence of officials. I could give you 28 instances, but have only quoted two or three.

Sir Joseph Ward (Invercargill) said he was firm in the belief that no man should, through no fault of his own be mulcted in large coats such as had been the case in this instance. “The electoral position in New Zealand to-dav as it strikes me is this,” he went on, ‘ r the majority of today might be the minority of to-morrow. The present Party in Government has a very long tail, but a long tail is frequently very easily broken. The Government had three years to work out its policy and justify its position. The electoral law to day is the most wnfair the most un-British, and the most unsatisfactory that exists in any country in the world. I am sure the Prime Minister did not know how his name was being used in the big advertise mencs at c’ection time. He could not have done so, but what occurred? Any candi date standing in any constituency in Now Zealand who had adopted the some method would have been disqualified. If in Inver cargil] I had doffe the same I would have been disqualified through having exceeded the £2OO limit. As it was I watched very carefully and just kept within it.— (Laughter.) The advertisements were designed to work the tremendous oracle, and the party relied upon the size. Why before the Prime Minister came to Invercargill the people got the idea that he was a man about 9ft 10in.—(Laughter.) I am sure he did not know because he was credited with things that I myself had done.” A Labour Member: Me made no objection to it, though. Sir Joseph Ward: Oh, no; because he wanted his men returned. It is not British, however to allow them to do this when another man would be disqualified. In reply to an interjection by the Prime Minister Sir Joseph retorted: “Keep your eye on your own party. It will take you all .your time to regulate your own party affairs if all we hear is right. A Member; What about the Liberal Party? Sir Joseph: There will be a Liberal Party at the next election all right. Mr W. Veifcch (Wanganui): “Hear! hear! Sir Joseph: I don’t say that I will |>e the Leader of it next time though.— (Laughter.) He thought tnat three years would see a great change. The Hon. \V. Nosworthy: A tail can hang on a long time. Sir Joseph: Yes. and I have no intention of trying to break it. The Prime Minister: Nor to stretch it? Sir Joseph appealed to the Government and the House to recognise the electoral position, reminding the Government that at next election it might possibly be in the minority when it would appreciate the position more. He wished to see a system under which the majority r. ight rule—proportional representation or the alternative vote. France had stuck to the second ballot.. Mr M’Combs: The second ballot would have the Government 50 members. Sir Joseph: I don’t want to keep the second ballot. Mr M'Combs The alternative vote wculd have done the same. ■Hie Hon. Mr Nosworthy: The Liberals existed for 20 year* on the present system. Sir Joseph: No. we had the second ballot for a time, but for the greater part of the time we did not have the Labour Party. Things have ohanged. Why not alter the law to suit the altered conditions? He agreed that the South Island electorate? should not be made larger. If thev were, only the wealthy min could afford to stand for election. This would do more harm than ever. Some system to the mutual satisfaction of both inlands should be evolved. The Prime Minister said he did not know of any country which legislated in respect of party funds. It had been the custom in this and other countries for party organisations to take part in election campaigns and assist in placing the of the party hefore the people. Mr Sullivan: It has not been abused in other countries. Mr Coates: Has it been abused in New Zealand? Mr J A. Lee: Seven hundred pounds was .spent in canvassing in my electorate. Mr Coates: I don’t know how you are going to prevent it. It is gross exaggera tion to sav that £40.000 or £30,000, or even £20,000 was spent. He added that it was ridiculous to suggest that he had written up the advertisements about himself. He felt proud that so many ladies and gentlemen thought so well of the party that they had come forward to assist as they had done. He thanked them for their support. They meant well in what thev said, though he did not agree with all of it. He had never claimed to be a man who got tilings done, and he hoped he would never be found bragging. Mr J. A. Lee: How about the war ad vertisement attacking Mr Jordan and myself? Mr Coates said he had not seen the advertisements before they went out but if the one mentioned were open to the construction put upon it by Mr Lee then he did not agree with it. He had not read any of the advertisements through. The campaign had been a hard one, and it had teemed that there was hardly time to eat, sleep, or drink. He had always felt (nighty disappointed with anything he had done, and he did not pretend to be the wonderful man these advertisements made him out to be. He wa« sure members on the Reform side of rhe House were very appreciative of the support their friends gave them at the time of the election, and he hoped the work of the Government would be such that these friends would rally in thousands more next election. Mr Sullivan: Vain hope. Mr Coetes: We are on our trial and we have to be tried out. Continuing, Mr Coates said that he had heard the question of the so-called Tory element on his side of the House mentioned. There were, however, only two who came in 1908 and the party, as a whole, was a young, virile set of men with progressive ideas, born of the soil with a determination that thoy would serve the people, not a class of people, but the whole of the people. The policy of the Government did not include proportional representation nor preferential woting, so no legislation to bring about ohanges in those directions could be looked for. Mr Coates remarked that in New South Wales a Labour Government Was returning to the old first past the post system, the other idees having been fonnd wanting. To say our system was perfect

would be incorrect. Sir Joseph Ward probably hit the nail on the head when he said that the present system did not allow ot a third party, but probably that was a good thing. To-day there was room for only two parties, and the best thing would be for the Liberals and the Nationalists to join up with the Government and give it a hand. Anything that led to a number of parties created difficulty. A large party was always difficult to nandle and was beset with dangers which did not beset a small party. No one expected to get through without disappointing some. It was only natural. We were all human beings, but if there were party Government one had to be loyal to his party. One could not serve two masters, and it was impossible to please all. lie had been elected to the House purely as a non-party man. and it had taken him a long time to find out that single effort got one nowhere, that one got nowhere without team work—a thing which had been proved in most countries with a somewhat similar method of choosing members of Parliament. Regarding the South Island and its electorates, Mr Coates dewed with alarm any attempt to get away from a principle. Such an attempt would lead to difficulties later on. He regretted that there ’ ould be such a tremendous increase in the north as compared with the south, and would prefer to see a more equal growth. It was not that the south was going back, but that the north had been growing the faster. Mr Sidey’s suggestion to take the census every 10 years, if adopted, would result in a stabilisatioi. of the position, and it would be considered by the Government. To have hard-and-fast electorates would be opposed to a principle, and he thought anything would be better than to have the electorates grow into pocket boroughs:' Sir John Luke: That is no good. It was no good in England. Mr Coates: No, it is unsatisfactory. It creates discontent. Mr Coates said that the size of the electorates n the south was a difficulty, but he could lemember the time when the electorates in the North Island were larger than any of those in the south today. Did it not all come down to the fact that there had to be organisation and weight of assistance behind the candidates and that brought them back to party Government. No individual who was not provided with means could do himself justice in some of the electorates which were widely scattered with means of communication presenting a difficulty Continuing, Mr Coates said that any fixation scheme in regard to the electorates must be surrounded with dangers and so would not stand. It was better to remember that a certain number of people conat.l4ute.d an electorate. There was also the difficulty in regard to community of interest which, in the country districts in particular, was most annoying. The Minister in charge had certain information which h if w £ u,d give to the Hou se, and indicate the Government’s intention in regard to possible legislation, not during the current session, but during the term of the present Parliament. Mr Howard (Christchurch South) referred to what he termed a most extraordinary speech on the part of the Prime Minister. He had repudiated his advertisements. Mr Coates: No, I did not. That is not fair. Mr Howurd: Well, he stated he did not know anything about them. Mr Coates: No, I said I did not see them before they went out Mr Howard went on to refer to his owti electorate where there was one of the smartest returning officers, and he pro ceeded to condemn the statement of tho member for Westland about the West Coast Art Union. It was the most ungenerous speech he had ever heard in that House. Like the Reform Party, they might have had some kind friends who had put advertisements in the Grey River Argus, but the advertisement the member for Westland had referred to was not in the paper. He had searched the paper and could not find it. It was not intended that any money out of the lottery should go to the payment of the election petitioners’ expenses. He read the advertisement as it appeared in one copy of the paper. As to election expenses, he had always paid his own except in the last election, when he had received a little allowance He stated that there was a ban on broadcasting election speeches by wireless, yet a speech of Mr Coates’s was broadcasted over the world Mr Coates: I think that is wrong. One or two of my efforts might have been broadcasted, but the hon. gentleman has exactly the same right. Mr Howard said it was a question of the law, and the regulation was most strict. Mr Seddon. by way of personal explana tion, read another advertisement from the Grey River Argus of May 5 in which it was stated that the funds of the art union were to be partly devoted to the liquidation of election debts. There were two debts—at Lyttelton and at Westland—and it was widely known that funds were being gathered by means of the art union for the liquidation of those debtß. The advertisements were signed J. O’Brien, and 75 per cent, of the profit was to go to the Labour Party’s campaign fund. Mr Peter Fraser (Wellington Central) gave an emphatic denial to the statement that the funds were to be used for the election petition expenses. He could speak with authority because he was familiar with the administration of the Labour Party fund. He knew that Mr Beddon’s statement was incorrect. The hon. member should be ashamed of his action in bringing the name of his late opponent on to the floor of the House in this connection. Mr Seddon: I made no aspersion on my opponent. Mr Fraser added that the expenses of the election petitions were paid out of the campaign fund of the Labour Party. After brief remarks by Messrs Veitch and Armstrong, the Hon. Mr M‘Leod, in the course of a brief reply, dealt only with the question of representation. It w&s highly probable, he laid, that the South Island would Wise some eeets if the law remained as it stood. However, he felt that if Cook Strait had not existed the question would never have been raised. Mr Holland: I suppose the population would distribute itself differently. Mr M'Laod remarked that so fer as such comparisons were concerned the rest of the North Island might feel that it had a grievance over the growth of the Auckland province. He would not say that the Government had come to any definite conclusiona about the. metier, but it would be reviewed before the next general election. Mr P. Fraser: The Manawatu and Wairaraps districts aught loae some seats.

The Minister replied that some North Island electorates carried a larger and more scattered population than any. he believed, in the South Island. Exa/nples were the Bay of Plenty, Rotorua arul the Bay of Islands. Sir Maui Pomare: They are nothing compared with ours. Mr M'Leod agreed that the Maori electorates were the largest in area. Regarding country representation he said that New Zealand was fortunate in having an automatic quota, and if it were abandoned harm would result, no matter what Government were in office. He added that one or two electoral matters would be dealt with in !egi?lation this session, but no general overhaul would be attempted for the present.