FLOOD DAMAGE.

Otago Witness, Issue 3613, 12 June 1923, Page 24

FLOOD DAMAGE.

CONDITIONS AT THE TAIERI. DEPUTATION TO PRIME MINISTER. OFFER TO TAKE OVER LAND. RESIDENTS TO CONSIDER PROPOSAL. Tile importance of the effects of the recent floods at the Taieri to the people of Otago as a whole was well illustrated bv the representative nature of the deputation which waited on the Prime Minister (Mr W. F. Massey) on Friday morning to request assistance from the Government. Mr J. M. Dickson, M.P., who introduced the deputation, thanked Mr Massey for visiting the locality on the previous day as it had been the ambition of the people of the Taieri that either the Prime Minister or some other Minister should see the actual conditions for themselves during the progress of a flood. He was sure that the Prime Minister must have been impressed by what lie saw. Proceeding, Mr Dickson said that in 19C6 or 1907 a commission had been set up to inquire into flood prevention at the Taieri, but nothing had been done. In 1917 the Thompson Commission took a great deal of evidence at the cost of a lot of money and still nothing was done. Then in 1920 the Rivers Commission was set up and it presented a report with regard to the drainage of the Taieri. Its report was a very valuable one. and it was generally conceded by the people of the 'l'a.eri that if its recommendations were adopted they would go a long way towards minimising the risk of flood damage. They wanted the Prime Minister to recognise that this was not a local matter, nor was it a provincial matter; —it was a national ques tion of great importance to the people as a whole. At South Taieri there were thousands of acres of the finest land in the- dominion being lost to the community. The deputation was there to impress upon the Government, that something should be done, even if mistakes were made. They could excuse honest mistakes, but they could not excuse inaction. Mr Massey: What have the local people done ? Mr Dickson: They will tell you that themselves, Mr Alassey. Mr R. T. Said (chairman of the Taieri River Trust) said that as a result of the report of the Rivers Commission. of 1920 an Act had been passed setting up one board to supersede the several boards that were, then in existence for various parts of the plain. This board was divided into four sub divisions with a member for each, and, in addition, there were three Government nominee's. During the two years which the board had been in existence it had been taking levels and making surveys and in other ways obtaining information so as to try and carry out the recommendations of the Rivers Commission as laid down in the Act. Recently a heavy flood had occurred and had caused very bad breaches in the bank in two places. He was referring to these breaches because it was most urgent that they should be repaired as soon as possible. If another flood occurred now. even a small flood, the plain would again suffer inundation as a result of these breaks. It was roughly estimated that it would cost about £7OOO to repair them.

Mr Massey; I suppose you have remitted the details to Wellington. Mr Sadd: Yes, and we have asked for a subsidy of £1 for £1 to help us to do tiie work. W e have power to raise a small a of the dimensions that would be necessary to carry out the works recommended by the Rivers Commission. that would be a very large sum and the consent of the ratepayers would have to be obtained. Continuing, Mr Sadd said that the laieri Plain had been subject to Hoods within the memory of man. but it was undoubtedly getting worse. In the earlv days there was far more vegetation in the back country, and there were places where the water was held up, the most notable of these being Taieri Lake which, OWl [ lg ,, to natural erosion and silting up, probably caused by mining, was now practically a. grazing area. This silting up and erosion had caused the depth of the rivers and lakes to be greatly interfered with, and the water now came down on the plain. The proposals of the Rivers Commission would not altogether prevent flooding, but would confine it to a certain area and savo the bulk of the plain io his mind the great thing was to <r e t the water off quickly after a flood, and that could only be done by earying out the works recommended by the Rivers Commission. principally by way of dredging the lakes and rivers and clearing away the willows. The ratepayers were faced with a tremendous work at the present time and if anything could be done to assist them he thought that it should bo done. Mr Sadd mentioned in conclusion that the latest Hood had come down within 30 hours, showing that it was greatly accelerated owing to the denudation of the vegetation. Mr A. P. Homing, representing the Taieri settlers thanked Mr Massey for making a personal inspection of the plain on the previous day. No deputation than that one was of more importance to the future of the dominion. With regard to what the settlers had done during the last 30 or 40 years he wished to inform the Prime Minister that they had fought and struggled against the prevailing conditions and bv the construction of drains and protective banks and the installation of pumps they had sought to improve the conditions but without avail. 15y reason of these works, they had incurred a liability of 10s per acre, and yet the position to-day was no better’than it was *0 or 30 years ago. owing very largely, to the silting up of the rivers and lakes. 'I he three floods during the last three years would cost them somewhere about £BOO.OOO. Mr Massey: bn actual cash ?

Mr Fleming: According to the 1917 Commission’s report, the loss was £3OO 000 and m 1919 the farmers lost £150.000. Mr Massey: I hat, is to say, their property depreciated to that extent. Mr Fleming: That was the actual loss. In regard to the last, flood, it is impossible to say definitely what the actual loss will be, as the farmers have not. only lost the results of last year’s operations but this yiar’s as well. Continuing, the speaker said that in the event of Mr Massey suggesting a £ for £ subsidy, say, up to £50.000. lie wished to bring under his notice the fact, that they were already paying 10s an acre, and such a proposal would mean that the farmers’ rates would be in-

creased by approximately 10s per acre, making them £1 or perhaps 22s 6d per acre in all. In addition, they would still have to maintain the present drainage system and make provision for an abnormal rainfall, and he was practically certain that the farmers would not support such a suggestion if it were made. Continuing, Mr Fleming read the follow ing resolution which had been carried at a meeting of ratepayers at Momona on Saturday night:— That this meeting, being thoroughly representative of the Western Taieri drainage district, requests the Taieri River Trust to take urgent steps to place before the Prime Minister the serious position of the settlers owing to the frequent floodings of the Taieri Plain, which, according to experts’ opinions, have been mainly caused by the silting up of the lakes and the Taieri and Waipori Rivers; and urgently to impress upon the Government the immediate necessity of coming to the assistance of the settlers by financing and executing the following works, we being of the opinion that those works, as part of the recommendations in the lost Commission’s report, will do t.be greatest amount, of good by way of preventing floods for the least possible expenditure: 1. Opening up the lakes to the contour channel. 2. Opening up the Waipori and strengthening the lake’s embankment. 3. Making the railway the bank from Otokia to Taieri Ferry. 4. Extending the railway bridge at Out ram, and also straightening the

bank at Outram. The speaker added that the settlers urgently required assistance, and by helping them the Government w r as not assisting the farmers <?nly but the people of Dunedin and Otago and the dominion generally. Mr Dickson asked Mr Fleming if the loss to the settlers was the loss in the value of their land or depreciation. He took it that that was included, but that the figures also represented the loss in produce and stock, as well as in production for half the year. Mr Fleming: Yes, that is quite correct. It includes those other items as well as depreciation. Mr Dickson: Well, that alters the position to some extent. Mr Massey: I can tell you now that I am going to suggest a way out. Mr C. Todd (chairman of the Otago Expansion League) said that no words of theirs could convey anything fresh to the Prime Minister. After all, it was surely a very small matter. Holland held back the sea with dykes, and surely we could hold back the Taieri River. In Otago they made many requests to the Government, but as business men they believed that this was one of the most pressing needs of the country. Mr F. Waite (Otago branch of the Farmers’ Union) said he was there on behalf of one of the most representative organisations in Otago. Speaking for the practical farmer, of Otago he wished to tell Mr Massey that whatever he did, provided it was substantial and final, would have the backing of every intelligent farmer in Otago, and, as he knew, there were a great many of them.

Mr G. A. Lamb said he would confine himself to reading the following resolution which had been passed by the South Island Dairy Association:—“That this meeting view's with grave concern the prevailing conditions on the Taieri Plain, and would strongly urge upon the Government the necessity for coming to the assistance of the settlers in their .endeavour to obviate what can only be regarded as a national calamity.”

Mr Crosby Morris, speaking on behalf of the business firms who had relations with the Taieri farmers, expressed his appreciation of what they had done in the past to help themselves. —(“Hear, hear.”) They had taxed themselves to the extent of IQs per acre in round figures, and if they borrowed further money it might be that their land would be taxed to such an extent that they would have to retire from the business altogether. The present damage, without doubt, was due to the silting up of the river through dredging and mining, and if it were so it was a further reason why the Government should assist.

Mr J. A. Johnstone, also representing the business interests of the farmers, said he had seen every flood at the Taieri since 1868, and he had no hesitation in saying that this was the most disastrous flood experienced during that long period. He knew the circumstances of the farmers and that a number of them at the lower end of the plain were practically ruined men. Speaking as a layman, and not from the legal point of view, it seemed to him that a great responsibility was thrown upon the Government in this matter, because the recent floods were undoubtedly due to the operations of the mining industry 'and the creation of the river some years ago as a sludge channel. Mr Massey: When was that done? Mr Dickson: The date is mentioned in the report.

Mr Johnstone: I think it was in Mr Sejdon’s time. There was a good deal of indignation at the time on the part of the farmers about it. Proceeding, the speaker said he was one of the few people who did not believe in going to the Government for everything. He thought that sort of thing was vastly overdone, but if there was ever a national necessity and a need for action to cope with a situation quite out of the ordinary, and to assist the people who were the backbone of Otago, the present case was such a one.

Mr Dickson said he did not quite remember how many years ago it was since the Taieri and Waipori Rivers were declared sludge channels, but there was another factor, and this brought in the Railway Department to some extent. When the Central Otago railway was under construction the spoil was piled up on the side of the Taieri River, and the whole of that materia! —perhaps millions o’ tons—was thrown over the bank into the river. This was now coming down the stream in

addition to what was carried down from (he ruining operations. As Mr Johnstone and Mr Morris hail said (he farmers had done what they could to improve the situation, and they now needed all the sympathy and help they could tret. PRIME MINISTER’S REPLY.

Mr Massey said he wished to congratulate the, speakers on the. very concise and businesslike way in which they had put forward their representations. There had really been no need to make any representations after what he had seen on the previous day. The sight of io,COO acres of the best lard in the dominion under water was a very sad one indeed, and he was

very sorry for the settlers, many of whom would be compelled to go out altogether, leaving the work of half a lifetime or a lifetime behind them. Apart from the individual loss there was the national loss and whatever was done the present state of things could not be allowed to continue. Suggestions had been made by the meeting at Momona that something should be done, but he doubted whether the proposals went sufficiently far. One of tbe suggestions was that the lakes should be opened to the contour channel. He bad a rough idea what that meant, but it- must be a pretty big work. lie would like to know whether a calculation had been made as to the cost of these works, and if expert opinion bad been obtained whether they would be effective or not. Could Air Fleming tell them what the cost of these works was likely to be ?

Air Sadd said a rough estimate had been prepared showing that the cost of opening the lakes to the contour channel would he about £20,000, and that the opening of tbe Waipori and the strengthening of the embankment would cost übout £12,000. The cost of making the railway the bank to Taieri Ferry, and extending the railway bridge was the m-ost expensive way of making an embankment because it would mean the construction of a temporary railway, and this was estimated to cost about £65,000. They could make a tank away front the railway for probably half that amount. The strengthening of the railway bank at Outram and the lengthening of the bridge was estimated to cost about £„-,000, making a total of £127,000, which was reducible by fully £30,000 if the independent embankment were constructed. Mr Massey: Even if these works are going to cost £IOO,OOO, and the work is effective when it is done it- will be well worth doing.--(“Hear, hear.”) Personally I cannot help thinking that more is required than you have set out here. lam afraid it is going to cost more than that. Let me suggest, this: I should say that not less than 30,000 acres are affected because to-day it is a small flood compared with what it must have been. Supposing that the Government takes over (hat land at valuation, and gives the settlers fair value for their property, it can then do the neces sary works and hand back the land to the settlers or to other settlers. What we have to do is to stop flooding—there is no use playing with it. Something must be done to face the position and meet these difficulties. We want to do something that need not be repeated in the years to come — something that will make {lie banks stand and get the water away. How does my proposal strike the people concerned? The Hon. D. T. Fleming: Leave the people there. Air Todd: They know more about the floods than anyone else.

Air Massey: Your proposals will entail a probable expenditure of £IOO,OOO. but what is Parliament going to say when I go before it and ask for that expenditure of public money? I know it is for the national benefit, but what is Parliament going to say when only the people immediately concerned are going to get the full benefit of this expenditure? Air A. P. Fleming: I believe they would agree to it,. Mr Alassey: Your experience is a great deal less than mine, and you have none of the responsibility. Ask Mr Sidey what is likely to hajtpen if this expenditure were proposed for the North Island. Air Sidey : I am quite sure that any proposal which the Government brings down will meet with the approval of the House. Mr Waite: When the Government takes over this land will the ground lie idle? The people there are accustomed to these conditions, and should have the right to remain on the ground while the Government holds it. Mr Massey: If my suggestion is given effect to we are not going to rush the people off. Air Dickson suggested that if the land were valued now the settlers could remain on it. If the valuation was made after the Government completed the work the settlers could be called on to pay. Air Alassey: That is another way of putting it, and I do not object to" it, but we want something feasible. I know what the land is worth to the country and the settlers. Air W. Reid said he had five farms on the lower part of the Taieri Plain. They were all under water, and he could not go on as he was doing. He was willing to allow the Government to take one, two, or three of them at present valuation plus’ 10 per cent., and if it was going to do any good and relieve the plain generally he was willing that the Government should take over the lot if it desired to do so. Mr Alassey: I think that is a very failproposal. Your suggestions are going to cost £IOO,OOO. of which the settlers have to find £50,000, but I have my doubts about it. Air Dickson: That amount is not roing to prevent floods, but it will help very largely. He took it that the valuation would be what was paid for the land. Mr Alassey asked what it was worth tinder water. He said he would like them to think over his offer. He could only give them temporary relief now. but so far as the settlers were concerned the Government was quite willing to do everything possible to enable them to carry on. - hat was only a temporary measure bv way of a loan, and did not apply to the future. It was also an offer to the individual settlers and had nothing to do with the big question. If they would give him some definite idea of the cost of the suggestions to put before Parliament when it met next Thursday he would have an idea what to sav and do. Alt- Waite: What happened to the revenue that was earned by the mining industry? Air Alassey: It is a well-known fact; Uiat every ounce of gold cost more to produce than it was worth. The Government was willing to assist these settlers, but lie wanted them to give him a feasible proposal to which Parliament would agree. Air Fleming said there were two wavs of looking at the matter. Some of tbe settlers had bought their land at £3O, £4O, or £SO an acre, and if it were taken over at a valuation of between £2O and £3O the loss to the farmers would be readily understood. . Mr Alassey said it was in their hands. The Government wanted to help, and was willing to do a great deal to protect the interests of the settlers and the backblocks. At the same time Parliament had to agree before anything could be done. Air Dickson asked the Prime Alinister what he proposed to do in the way of temporary votes to repair the damage to roads and bridges. Mr Masey said there was a vote which provided for emergencies such as those from which the country was now suffering. He could not take £200,000 or £300,000 out

of it, but it could be called on for anything in the way of temporary repairs. He was really thinking of a permanent remedy. Mr Dickson returned thanks on behalf of the deputation, and expressed the hope that the Prime Alinister’s visit and interest in the matter would result in something definite being done to improve tbe conditions at tbe Taieri. He suggested to those immediately concerned that they should discuss the Prime Minister’s proposal at an early date and get the settlors to come to some definite conclusion aboutit. Of course opinions would vary a good deal

Air Alassey said that if they supplied him with the necessary information he would place the matter before the Cabinet. His main idea was to do something that would prevent a recurrence of such extensive damage in the future. —(Applause.) Air A. P. Fleming stated at ihe close of the deputation that he would call a meeting at an early date to discuss the Prime Alinister’s proposal. TAIERI COUNTY REQUESTS.

Air Dickson next introduced a deputation from tho Taieri County Council to ask for a subsidy of £1 for £1 up to £6OOO to repair the damage caused bv the first flood and for a straight-out grant of £SOOO to make good the damage caused bv the second flood.

Air Walter Blackie said it was 15 years smee the laieri County Council had asked the Government for help on account of flood damage. At that time thev got £4OOO which was equal to about £loiooo to-day. .they were not going to renew all the culverts immediately but would spread the money over this year and next year, there had been more water on the Taieri during recent floods than for the past 63 years.

Air Oouston informed the Prime Alinister that, details of the requirements had already been submitted to the Public Works Department.

Cr APlntosh gave details of the damage 0a r>i S Ridges in the Otokia riding. . a,r briefly .described the conditions m the Outram riding, where a number ot settlers were returned soldiers who were worthy of assistance. ~ the Government will give your" request every consideration. Air Houston said he wanted to stress the importance of repair work. Some of the roads were quite impassable. Air Alassey replied that the repairs could be gone on with at once. The Government would see them through. SLIPS ON PO R TO BELL-0 ROAD. A deputation from the Portobello Road Board was introduced by Air Dickson, who stated that during the recent floods the hills on the beach road had tried to find their way into the harbour. This had caused a great deal of damage to the road. Mr W. Rowlands (chairman of the Road Board) and Mr H. Allan explained the position, and asked for an expenditure of £ for £ to make good the damage. Mr Massey added that they would get a subsidy, but he was not sure what it would, be. THE FORM OF RELIEF. As a result of the Prime AlJnister's reply to the deputation asking for tbe Government’s assistance in respect to the constant flooding of the Taieri Plain Air A. P. Fleming, of Otokia, had another interview with Air Alassey at the Grand Hotel on Saturday morning prior to the latter’s departure for the north. Mr Fleming said that although it had been a matter of impossibility to call a meeting . of the settlers together in the limited time at his disposal, he had got in touch with quite a number of farmers who were in Dunedin at the time, and he had been asked to thank the Prime Alinister for the sympathetic reply which he had given to the deputation on the previous day. ILe quite understood Air Alassey’s position in placing before Parliament a proposition which, he quite agreed, was one of very serious national importance, but which, although it might be supported by all the South Island members, might not be viewed in quite the same light by Parliament assembled. This, he took it, was the principal reason why Mr Massey put forward the suggestion that the Government take over all the land on the Taieri at a valuation, carry out a scheme which would give permanent relief, and give back the land to tbe original owners. This suggestion had been the cause of considerable discussion amongst the farmers and business people of Dunedin, and while, for the reasons he had mentioned, no decision could be arrived at, he was of the opinion that, until he was in a position to give some definite assurance to those farmers —and there were many —who had paid high prices for their land, that they would not suffer unduly through the Government taking over the land at a valuation, he was very much afraid that the proposition would be turned down. Further, what was the position of the mortgagees in the matter? And how was it proposed to get over the difference between the valuation price and the money for which the mortgagor would be liable to the mortgagee? Then, again, supnosing the Government took over the land at a given figure, what portion, if any, of the cost of the proposed new works would be added to that valuation when the settler was asked to lake it over? These were a few points which would require to be fully gone into, and would have to he explained to a meeting of settlers in the nenr future. With regard to the other proposition—that contained ill the resolution put forward by the settlers at the Momona meeting—while thanking the Prime Alinister for the suggestion that pound for pound tin to, say, £50.000, be given by way of subsidy, AltFleming said be would hesitate before, placing finis proposal before the ratepayers. He did not think for a moment that they could accept it. The present position of tho majority of the settlers on the Taieri wa-s such that it was beyond doubt a financial impossibility to carry out the proposal. If _ Alt- Massey could not give the full assistance asked for, it was just possible that, if be could agree to sav the Government standing 25 per cent, and the ratepayers 25 per cent, of the cost, it might be agreed to by the ratepayers: but in view of the serious financial loss that has recently occurred it was evry questionable if even that proposition would be accepted. Air Alassey, in replying, said that it seemed to him that tbe only thing to do to get any hope of permanent relief in the matter —which he quite agreed was decidedly a national question—was for the Government to take over the land and carry out the works itself. Difficulties were in the way certainly, but these difficulties

had to be overcome, and the conditions which exist to-day must be remedied. Regarding Air Fleming's points as to the position of those farmers who had purchased land at inflated values and the position of the mortgagees, he fully realised toe position, hut he thought that there was a way out. He could not say just at present what the way out would be; —it would have to be considered, but he thought that an arrangement could be come to to the satisfaction of all parlies. Referring to the question of tile cost of the proposed works, lie thought that an extra charge would have to be borne by the ratepayers, who would have it added on to the price of the land. Not (he whole cost, of course, but he thought that part of the cost of the works would he added to the land. In regatxl to the proposal put forward by the ratepayers themselves, he could only say that lie had seen the place for himself and no one realised more than he did the very serious position the farmers on (lie Taieri were in. Personally, he was quite in sympathy with Air Fleming in the matter, and if there was only himself ho had no doubt that they would get what they were asking for, for he did not consider it unreasonable; but he thought that much more would be required than what had been asked for, and, in order to he in a position to place before Parliament anv proposition for relief, he was of opinion that the Government, should iirst acquire an interest in the Taieri on the lines of the suggestion he had made. The ratepayers could have a meeting, however, and discuss tho matter, and let him know the result. It would he better still if Air Fleming could . come to \\ ellington and go more fully into the matter at an early date. He fully realised the position, and something would certainly be done, but he was not in a position to say just yet what line of action would be taken.