DEFENCE EXPENDITURE COMMISSION.

Otago Witness, Issue 3337, 27 February 1918, Page 20

DEFENCE EXPENDITURE COMMISSION.

COLONEL M'DONALD EXAMINED. SAMPLES OF GROSS EXTRAVAGANCE. PALMERSTON N., February 21. The Defence Expenditure Commission, consisting of Sir Robert Anderson and Messrs Rhodes and Peter Barr, sat in the Courthouse to-day, when the evidence of Colonel Hume and Lieutenant-colonel M'Donald was taken. Lieutenant-colonel Thomas William M'Donald, General Staff officer, stated that he had been in the permanent service for nearly 20 years. He considered overcentralisation a great mistake. There were four military districts, and a camp should have been established in each. The centralisation of the camps at Featherstori and Trentham would mean a loss of the amount of their cost—which might be £IOO,OOO or £2oo,ooo—to the country when the war was over, as they could not be used for the training of home forces, entailing too great an expenditure in travelling expenses. This method did not make the most use of the efficient, officers in other districts. The Chairman: Are these officers not fully occupied ? Witness: They are; finding work for themselves. 1 contend that the present system is cumbersome to a degree. The camp commandant controls at Featherston 700 men who are not divided into battalions He is supposed to investigate all matters and read all evidence in all cases beforo applying for courts-martial, etc., and he cannot possibly do so and carry out his work. Witness did not consider Trentham a suitable place for a camp. He then detailed a scheme for the reorganisation of the whole camp system, and said: "We have lost at least £IOO,OOO through our canteens, by letting them on contract instead of running them ourselves. We are now saving probably £25,000 annually in Featherston, selling the goods cheaper than when under contract, and making as much profit as we got for the contract. Instances were given by witness of the differences in allowances between officers and equal rank in camp and out of camp. A lieutenant-colonel in camp, who was house free, got £6OO a»d allowances amounting to £l9l 12s 6d. A man of similar rank on the staff outside camp got £6OO. but only £36 10s allowances, and had to find his house. An instance of waste of money was the painting of all transports for the Mam Body,, as they jinked up with the men from Australia, whore this wasteful policy had not been carried out. At the end of the journey many of the boats had to be restored in colour beforo handing them back to the shipping companies, all thiti entailing considerable expense. In this district there was a shortage of arms amounting to £5587, and equipment amounting to £2069. Taking the other three districts into account, there was probably £20,000 worth of these goods unaccounted for since No doubt much had gone with the men on active service, but there was not a record of how much. Lax supervision and want of proper stock-taking "would account for this. Much detailed evidence was given under this head. The position of the Director of Recruiting in Wellington and group commanders was often conflicting, and an expensive method. Telegraphing was used by the Director of Recruiting to notify recruits drawn in the ballot where memos, from the group office would answer the purpose. The Director of Recruiting in Wellington now had a staff of 152, which ho considered unnecessary, being largely working on duplication and overlapping. Reference was also made to discrepencies between soldiers' files in the recruiting and tho group office, and the employment of inspectors to make connections. The lack of co-ordination throughout the service and tho overlapping of departments was a subject requiring great consideration, and in the reconstruction of this a vast saving could be made. There was a great deal pi waste in connection

with medical boards. They consisted of two doctors, a military attesting officer, a sergeant-major, and three clerks. They received salaries and travelling expenses,,, lie considered that the clerical staff could bo dispensed with, and clerks, from the group staff utilised for the purpose. In this district one of the three Appeal Boards could be cut out altogether. He considered the military representative quite unnecessary, as the group officer had to supply him with all information, and could therefore act as military representative when needed. He understood that the military representative of the board, which was practically in residence in Wellington, drew travelling expenses all the time. The Chairman: His would be a coveted position. The question of horses for artillery training camps next came under review. Witness said they were not allowed to buy horses', yet it cost £l2 per horse for hire for 30 days, whereas the horses' values were only £9 10s each. He favoured buying horses and selling them afterwards. The present system, of military law and discipline was costly and ineffective. When a man became a soldier he had no fewer than 21 commanding officers. The method of bringing deserters from long distances for investigation was very expensive, involving witnesses' expenses also in every case. It was suggested by witness that the commission should inquire into the contracts made with officers imported from England. He questioned if the terms of their contract were being earned out. Some who came out under engagement at a certain salary, for a certain position, had been removed to higher positions at higher salaries, and this was detrimental to colonial officers as well as to other imported officers. The Chairman (smiling): Beneficial variations. Witness: We have in New Zealand officers who are quite as capable of rilling these positions. The Chairman: They have proved that by their achievements abroad. Witness (continuing) said: When I returned from England with the highest credentials I was sent to Paeroa. My- time was wasted there. Knowledge, experience, and backbone are the greatest bar to advancement, I find. I have had exceptional experience, but I find it a drawback. I have seen' men put over my head in staff departments without any knowledge of staff work. I could have saved this country a quarter of a million, but I don't get the chance. Witness finally dealt with the training of men. He considered that the period of training could bo cut down by a month, three months beimr ample time. He also favoured the establishment of an officers' training school here like they Iliad, in England. The court then adjourned, and visited the Awapuni oamm. PALMERSTON NORTH. February 22. At to-day's sitting of the Defence Expenditure Commission evidence was given by Captain Frask (paymaster), Sergeant-instruc-tor W. Minnell, Sergeant-instructor H. H. Davies, and Captain M'Donnell (commander of No. 6 group). The last n&mcdi stated that he considered that all men called up for service should be dealt with bv the group officers instead of bringing them under the dual control of the group office and the Director-general of Recruiting. He thought the group commander should be the military representative in each district before the Military Service Board'. He drew attention to the fact that in some districts a major who was an area officer was drawing a lesser rate of pay than a group commander, who was a captain, and who was the over-area officer. February 23. The Defence Expenditure Commission continued its sitting to-day. Colonel T. M. M'Donald, of the Wellington District Headquarters Staff, gave evidence regarding the training of the Expeditionary Foi-oes, and gave it his opinion that the training period could be reduced by about one month. He considered that tbe present system of sending all the men of a draft from each district into the Expeditionary Force camps on the same day was unsound in principle, unnecessary for efficiency, and extremely expensive for the following seasons: (a) It placed a Territorial of at least-seven consecutive years' training on the same footing as regards training as the civilian who had never done anv training—a position which was quite illogical: (b) there were two categories of Territorials who enlisted in the Expeditionary Force—(l) those in the first division (who had performed ten consecutive years' training in the Territorials and Cadets; and (2) all members of the second division between 20 and 25 (who had performed seven years' training in the Territorials and Cadets; (c) from this it was clear that no Territorial entered the Expeditionary camps with less training than seven years; (d) to give the game training of these Territorials as for civilians who had never trained forced us to admit either that the Territorial system was ineffective or that the system for giving Territorials and civilians- the same period of training in camps was wrong and unnecessary: (e) if wo admitted the failure of the Territorial training system, the sooner that system was abolished the better, but if we admitted its success wo must also admit that Territorials did not require as long a period of training as did untrained civilians, and the sooner we .set about reorganising the Expeditionary Force training system the bettor; (P he could not see that the question admitted of any argument, as common sense should show that a "partially trained man required less training- than, a totallv untrained one, unless the partially trained man had been trained on wronglines. If so, wo should be frank and admit it. and abolish the costly system at once, (g) He was strongly of opinion that the training of Territorials who joined the Expeditionary Force after their seven consecutive years' training should, in view of the New Zealand camps, be reduced to two months. On th.T assumption that the number of Territorials who entered the Expeditionary Force camps was 8000 (4000 less than entered in 1916-17), we should, by reducing the training by two months, effect a saving of no less than £168,000 per annum in future, and by failing to do this the last throe years had cost the country the large sum of £504.000. (h) If one added to the above a reduction of one month in the period of training in the Now Zealand camps for the remaining 7000 civilians who join the Expeditionary Forces each year a further saving of £73.530 could be effected, (i) From the above it would follow that the Territorials of each draft would not bo required to ent-cr tho camps until one month after the civilian portion went in, and on the arrival of Territorials in camp they and tho civilians would be on about

the same footing as regards training 1 , which would then go on progressively for all. (j) In addition, there would ho a huge saving in cost to the Defence Department. Ono had ako to consider the increased national efficiency which would result from the two months which 8000 Territorials and the one month which 7000 civilians would be able to devote to production.