IMPERIAL INTERVIEWS

Otago Witness, Issue 2860, 6 January 1909, Page 18

IMPERIAL INTERVIEWS

SIR CHARLES DILKE ON EMPIRE DEFENCE. DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES. CHE POSITION OF SELF-GOVERNING STATES. (Fbom Ous Own Correspondent.) LONDON, November 13. This article embodies the first of a series of inter\ iews obtained with public men in Great Britain who are regarded as authorities on the topics which they are asked to discuss. The object is to present to New Zealand at first hand the views held by persons who exercise influence in the Empire policy of Great Britain. In each article a topio of colonial interest will bo discus=ed, and the persons whose opinions a.re sought are only men who are recognised both in Great Britain and the colo«ies for their standing in public life and their knowledge of the subject. Almost the first English politician to come to an understanding of Colonial affairs by actual study and travel was the Eight Hon. Sir Charles W. Dilke. The investigation of the conditions of the British colonies was to him merely a continuation of his education, for he went direct from his studies at Cambridge, where he was senior legalist (head of Law Tripos) in 1865, to travel in the outlying parts of the Empire and study the conditions and aspirations of the colonies on the spot. The Australasia that he found was a very rudimentary and different community from the great congeries of eelf-governing States which people the continents and islands of the south to-day. The diggings . wer: 1 in full swing, and almost all of our I frcat social and political problems lay efore our fathers, unconsidered — many of them unsuspected. But Sir Charles Dilke saw the material at hand, and he saw and came to know the men who would have to mould it — the hard-haaded immigrant pioneers o£ the first settlement. A COLONIAL ADVOCATE. His work " Greater Britain " was published in 1868, and in tha* year he first appeared in the House of Commons, where tor 40 years he has been, regarded as one of the iirst authorities on the colonies. Amongst other positions which he held he wa-= for a time Under-Secretary of State ior Foreign Aflaiis and President of the Local Government Board. Since retiring from Cabinet rank he has continued bis study of colonial affairs, and it would be idle to lepudiate the influence which he must have exercised in a Praliament which iias not been conspicuous for its knowledge of the oversea dominions of Great Britain. Sir Charles Dilks was dfiident to speak on certain phases of colonial politics which he legarded as matters purely for local judgment and on which he might appear to be dictating to persons whose business it was to decide for themselves. On the question of Imperial defence, however, he felt free to £>peak, and he did so itith considerable exactness. BURDEN OF THE NAVY. Asked as to apportioning the cost of the Imperial navy between the Mother Country and the colonies, Sir Charles said th*t at the last Colonial Conference there eeemed to be no prospect that a uniform offer would be made on behalf of the Dominions and other self-governing colonies. A step of this 6ort must come Irom them, and no no suggestion could be made from London as to apportioning the burden of construction or niairtenance. The British navy, governed troin the Admiralty at Home, was, of course, the gieat defensrv c weapon of the Empiie. Ail Imperial defence in 8.11 parts of the Empire rested upon the foundation of the British navy. "It not only represent," Sir Charles remarked, " the material strength in defence and offence, but it also fornr;6 the < basis on which our possible alliances rest — either peace alliances, or alhance-s for or during war. In a secondary degree there are advantages to be obtained in a possible ■war— subject always to the predominanoo of the fleet— I by the organisation of expeditionary forces whioh, having to be carried •cross the eeas, and possibly supplied abroad, should be of a higb character of efficiency, and should represent quality rather tiian great numbers. But there are oertain local dcSence problems in war which may need troops in larger numbers, and even, in some cases, of a less degree of ■efficiency. For example, should there ever foe a need— of which there has boen littlo prospect hitherto — for the mobilisation of •the entire Indian army, then troops, not necessarily (at first) highly trained, might l>e needed for jrarr'.-oiis in India to set free the long-service troops maintained there at the cost of India." COLONIAL NAVAL CO OPERATION. On being incited to discuss th? md..r.-i- 11 I J&hich tlie self-soveruuig colonies mi'J.t Le=-i '

ro-operato in the navy, apart, from the granting of monoy contributions, Sir L'hailee said thk> was d.^iij.ct y a matter for individual eo ue i deration from tue j/oint of \i<j\v of tho iaiger Domin,or.s and the few smaller self-governing colonies. They j were not all in the same position. For | example, many years ago he singled out the colony of Newfoundland for a suggestion, t which had 6ince beoii adopted wit 11 good results— viz., that men of good quality, i hardy and thoroughly used to the sea, I should be selected from among the fishar- j men of the Great Banks. In Newfoundland ( this could be done without undue cost. There were also oases where local naial defence mught, exceptionally, be required. Capetown, Simon's Bay, or even Durban, j for example, were stations which were still j highly important in certain circumstances to tho fleet and to the merchant navy. Although axiy large expedition by an enemy would be subject to tne general considerations of the command of tihe sea, it might be weil to provide locally to prevent anxiety with regard to the conceivable destruction of the docks and the stores of coal. In the cose of any naval way which was easily to be foreseen, the enemy's ships from whom any --such attack could proceed would be watched and dealt with ; but when any such war might unhappily become probable it would not be safe to leave out of view the chanc-9 of sudden pressure being exercised on policy by a hypothetical enemy having come naval strength in a different part of the world from that primarily in view. LOCAL NAVAL FORCES. Another aspect of naval defence which has been somewhat misunderstood in both England and the colonies i 6 the desire of some of the colonies to develop their own maritime propensities either in the form of independent navies or by establishing naval reserves. Sir Charles Dilke said he did not wish for a moment to question the policy which had been suggested by the Admiralty to some of the colonies at their own request — the Commonwealth of Australia, far example. Personally, he wae not | a great believer in the real utility of submarines, co far as they had boen developed by France and by Great Britain; but there could be no doubt that the existence at different ports of well-constructed submarines, manned by efficient officers and orews. exeroieed a deterrent effect on the naval '. enterprise of others. What would be the probable effect of the independent Australian navy on Butish na\al policy? 1 "There is not sufficient chance in ary ' time that one can contemplate in politics," : replied Sir Charles, "of the creation of a really important Australian fleet (the only such force as yet in view), for it +0 affect present naval policy, so that it becomes a little too speculative to be worth going into. 1 One cannot anticipate the state of things ' that may exist 20 years ahead. There ~ : s no prospect of the Commonwealth having a fleet comparable with the fleets of any of the first four Powers -within any period one can foresee. The Commonwealth is not likely to have euch a fleet as Brazil or ' Argentina for many years to come. So that ' it could not well affect tlie British naval policy." MILITARY SERVICE OVERSEAS. The question of co-operation in land defence is in 6Uoh an elementary condition in the self-governing dominions that the public really holds no defined opinions re- ' garding responsibility for assisting with ' troops in different parte of the Empire. ' Discussing the responsibilities of the ' colonies for assisting in the Empire wars whioh may entail foreign service, Sir Charles was reluctant to say anything that ! would discourage the public sense of duty ! in such matters. It was, he said, mainly a ' question for the colonies themselves. Local ' defence was to some extent an 'nternal question. In regard to assisting in wars across the seas, he had already alluded to cases in which, in circumstances whioh were vpiv unlikeh, garrisons might be required I abroad. If there v.a.3 a system providing for j i ihe possibility of th<? supply ot such garrisons it would be possible for the Empire to use them — in India, for example, — and to employ the Indian army itself for service across the seas, of course, with a proper payment to the Indian funds. It could be used on a much larger scale than the expedi' on 'o China, which was entirely conducted from IncVa. Mil Chailes consideis that the -jolonir>;> could be?t a«-*ist jn oversea ,' wars at the iiiv^oi-t day by libeiuting a laige portion of the Indian army for ovei«_'a ( duty. The funds of li.tlia would have 1o be duly recouped, since they woic already overburdened as com pa" 1 with oHior pavUof the Empire. The le=-c-i bu'den which fell on Ceylon vv as in .stiiknig contiast to \ that borne by the adjacent pail* of fcouthom ' India. j AN EMPIRE YEOMANRY. i In dNcu-smg tho question of uniform training and the inteichange of officers Sir C:;;i:ifs UiJko irferrerl fo the o\peiicn<.(? _ of tho AnKTic-an coloni'-! b r fore iLe le- ! wi'. Ii tiie pi 2 ie\oluuon dajs there

was a very close association between the troops of England and those of the American colonies, but it was one of the great grievances of the Americans that this relationship was not carried out tactfully on the part of the Mother Country, not so tactfully as a similar association would be arranged to-day. From the time of Cromwell down there was a great deal of inter-co-operation between the forces of the Mother Country and those of the colonies. In the war of 1812, again, the Frenchspeaking Catholics of Canada were in the closest possible relationship with the regular army in the defence of Canada. The species of co-operation which was suggested in the scheme of Imperial Yeomany propounded by Mr Seddon during the later days of the war in South Africa r&ther appealed to Sir Charles Dilke, and he regretted that the invitation then held out by New Zealand had not been adopted. or at least considered. That was a real Imperial Yeomanry — a definitely-consti-tuted force in the dominions which would be_ available for foreign service if required, and which the Empire could definitely rely upon. It was a scheme for doing in time of peace what had always been done, and would have to be done, imperfectly, in time of war, and would form a useful basis for the creation of a very valuable force. It would be a great step in advance to have this force properly constituted in time of peace, because it had been found that when the Mother Country depended on colonial forces, as on those of the American colonies' in tlie wars with France in the eighteenth century, there used to be enormous trouble and delay in getting the votes of supply passed through the legislatures of the different States concerned, and they did not always agree in their policy. It was, therefore, of supreme importance that the.y should provide the machinery in peace that would run smoothly in war.