CHURCH UNION.

Otago Witness, Issue 2840, 19 August 1908, Page 18

CHURCH UNION.

JTATEMENT BY THE REV. DR GIBB

>.;The recently-culled outline of the Archjiefiop of Canterbury's encyclical renders of interest the following, taken from the (British Weekly, just to hand: —

We are able to publish (says the British {Weekly) an interview with the Rev. Dr }Gibb which gives, we believe, the first elea-r [statement that has appeared in this country of the effort to unit© Episcopacy with JPretibyterianiem. in Victoria. It must be (remembered that Dr Gibb is himself a New {Zealand minister, and so not directly conijeerned in the negotiations, but his position •gives .him exceptional opportunities for (comprehending the situation. Briefly, it k [proposed that the Presbyterian ministers »iow Hying shall have their orders accepted toy the Church of England. -In ttye future miinieters would be ordained Episoopally. "3!he ; Nicene Oreed is the theological basi* fof union, end ther« would he restricted '{opportunities for free prayer. We underiWfcaimd- that -the Archbishop of Melbourne rßulanits the plan to the judgment of tho iiLamheth Congress, and the decision will be awaited with the deepest interest. Wo may (bo quite sure that no «*sential principle will {{Be sacrificed by the Presbyterians of Victoria, and only those who know the cirkiumstaaices of the colony can fully underißtand the pressure which is compelling jQhrifftian people towarde union. In (Canada, we learn, the Episcopalians and '(Presbyterians axe also waiting for the ttcnibeth decision. ! The interview referred to reads as follows : — '. The movements for union in Canada, lAusfralia, and New Zealand have arisen mainly through three causes — viz. : (1) The desire to achieve the hope of Christ ; <2) the demands of home missions (many settlers never hear the loving word of Christ ; (3) the activity of Rome (recently the ruler of the Jesuits visited Australasia, and everywhere Romanism is seeking expansion). ~A hrief glance at the negotiations for Union show that they are far advanced, and in the near future some union is bound to come. In Canada, the agreement of committees of the Presbyterian. Methodist, Congregational, and Baptist Churches was heartily received by the recent Presbyterian 'Assembly. This agreement adopts lararelv the Presbyterian form of government. Its adoption by churches and peoplo will be 8, decided advance. In New Zealand tho movement is now at ebb tide. The cry of " creed in danger" was raised when prospects were bright, and negotiations were suspended. The Churches, however, have committees to watch developments, and the encroachments of Romanism and the urgent need of Church extension in the North Island will certainly bring the Presbyterians, Methodists, and Conßreßationalists into line. Moreover, as m Australia, among the younger people the old party watchwords have lost their significance. .The desire is strong for a New Zealand Church for the New Zealanders— an Australian Church for the Australians. All parties are watching with- sympathy the forward movement in Australia. It commenced with the Presbyterians, and some five years ago the Australian Unions of -the Presbyterian, the Congregational, the Methodist, and the Baptist Churches appointed - committees in each btate to work for union. The negotiations, maybe, have only cleared the way for a stronger movement in the near future. In i\ew South Wales the Methodists and Presbyterians have almost reached an agreement. In Victoria the Anglicans have- joined in much closer neuotiations, and although the Methodists cannot, agree, an agreement nas been arrived at by the Anglican and Presbyterian Church leaders, and the position is most promising. The agreement put m a few words, consents to the historic episcopate, recognises tho validity of P^hyterian orders, adopte the Nicene Creed for the united Church, allows the use of limited free prayer, and provides for a modified Presbyterian form of Church government. The whole matter is to be put before the Lambeth Conference by the Archbishop of Melbourne, and negotiations in ■ Australia have been held up for the decisions of the bishops at Lambeth. Much 'depends upon their voice, and their answer -will be awaited with anxiety. •In an interview I had m .Glasgow last week with the Rev. James Gibb, D.U-. ot IT John's Presbyterian Church -Wellington the leader of New Zealand Presbyteriaaism difficulties of the colonial cWhes were well outlined. Speaking of the union movement, Dr Gibb said . "Union is. in my judgment, certain to come in Australia. Will it include the Anglicans? That depends upon the Anglicans. Ihe Presbyterian Church admits the-validity of Anglican orders. Will the Anglicans admit the validity of Presbyterian orders? Jfoat it the questioo- PtestytSSifQ 8 must have * oleaf, unmistakable reoo^ition of t3?e hfitimateness oftneir claim 4p cburchman-

ship, and the acoeptanoe of this claim by the Anglicans will carry with it an endorsation of all the great evangelical principles for which the Presbyterian Church stahds. A sacrificing priesthood and baptismal regeneration on the one hand and tho Presbyterian conception of the ministry on the other are absolutely incompatible." Asked what difficulties will remain if the Lambeth Conference encourages union, Dr Gibb remarked that the suggested basis of union was highly satisfactory, and would be thought so by a majority of Presbyteri&n ministers, and probably by a, very large number of Anglican ministers. But the people of the ohurohes had yet to be consulted, and the church courts could not move against the wishes of the great body of laymen. The Historic Episcopate will be accepted? "Yes, I think so. The recognition of the validity of Presbyterian orders involves a surrender of those features of the Historic Episcopate which render it objectionable to Presbyterians. Presbyterians have no rooted antipathy to episcopaoy as a mene system of churoh government. They see the defects of the episcopal form. They are by mo means blind to the defects of the Presbyterian form. WaJter Smith has told us that ' grave cardinals bourgeon in all the churches — these crimson-stockinged, those olad in sober black ' ; and as a matter of faot every church has its leading men. To g^ive some of these leaders the title of Wshop and invest them with the power of superintendence would not be a subvention of Presbyterian principles. But if by the Historio Episcopate is understood some mysterious supernatural power with which the "bishop i 6 invested— well, Presbyterians cannot away with it. But this conception of their bishop must surely be abandoned in the validity of Presbyterian orders is recognised."

Dealin,g with other aspects of the matter, Dr G-ibb said the Nicene Creed would do verj well as a basis of dootrine. The united Churoh would have to allow for free and prepared prayer. Many Presbyterians already read all their prayers, but this would not become general. In the Presbyterian Church the tendency seemed to be to have certain of the prayers free and certain — especially the intercessory— fixed. At present it was left to the freedom of will of tno individual minister, but the way was prepared already for certain fixed prayers lo become an ordinance of the Church. With regard- to dootrine, the adoption of tho Nicene Creed would set the 39 articles and tiie Confession tof Faith aside.

When ask-sd for his impressions upon hia return after an absence of 13 years, Dr GibfS said h« had visited the General Assemblies in Scotland and Ireland, and o» the whole he was very favourably impressed with the condition of the ohurohes. He had so far had' no opportunity of directly I estimating the religious life of the people, but he had conversed with many ministers v of religion and studied many reports presented to the General Ass3mbliee. Tne&e indicated the opinion that church attendance is growing lees common, and that I worldliness in the form of an overweening I love of amusement and luxury is steadily 1 inoreasing. "It may be 60," continued Dr Gibb, " but for my part I have been profoundly impressed with the vigour, alertness, and resourcefulness of the churches. The Assemblies have a powerful grasp on the life of the people. The situation may be grave, but the Church is not afraid. She has the spring of an inexhaustible faith within her, and i 6 ►setting .herself to face tho problems of the new day with a patience and strenuousness altogether admirable. Tho Moderator of the Irish Assembly, in his opening address, stated that there were 45,000 Presbyterians I unaccounted for in that country. He re- | garded the situation as. if not deplorable, .at least calling for energetic action. I, with my colonial experience, exclaimed, ' Only 45,000!' Then look at the happy audacity of the Irish Church in establishing old-age' pensions for its needy members ! Again, can any Church in the world, in proportion to its membership, present such an array of able men as the United Free Church at its Assembly?. The atmosphere of the Assembly is keenly intellectual, but also ethical and spiritual, intensely evangelistic. In the colonies it is sometimes hinted that the U.F. Church is being vitiated by the Higher Criticism, and losing its touoh with the great' truth of the Evangel. I did not see a single sign of any such decadence. As for the religious life- of the colonies, we are making a brave _fig.ht for Christ's kingdom in our own lands. In some respeots tho battle is easier. "We have no inheritance from tiie past of p&uperdom and drunkenness. But in other respects our battle is harder. "We have to fight a practical materialism induced by worldly prosperity and a lightness of temper, for which our abundant sunshine may be partly responsible, that is clearly inimical to the cultivation of a deeply religious spirit. But the future is fuU of hope. We are grappling with the problem of the Sunday scjiool and the Bihle class. To the watchword ' Salvation by oo&Yeteion ' we have added ' Salva-

tion by education.' Witihin the Church we are recognising that if conversions are our glory, they are also our shame. The children of the Churoh ought to be kept by the Churoh. The future of the colonial churches is full of hope."