SOME INTERESTING EVIDENCE.

Otago Witness, Issue 2661, 15 March 1905, Page 17

SOME INTERESTING EVIDENCE.

OTAGO'S EDUCATION ENDOWMENTS. RIVERSDALE, March 7. The Land Commission, which came on here from Gore by special train on Monday night, held a meeting yesterday, when a number of witnesses gave evidence, the majority of whom came forward to complain of the conditions imposed upon them under the act by the Otago School Commissioners. John Roderick Henderson, farmer, Wendon Valley, said he held a School Commissioners' lease. He wanted the freehold, and expressed the opinion that the commissioners should reduce the price of his land. He thought the option of the freehold should be given with the lease in perpetuity. The commissioners did not allow fair valuation for improvements at the end of the- term. Samuel George Inder, livery stablebeeper, Gore, spoke about the Maniototo County, which he knew 11 years ago. He said that the low country was originally cut up into 200-aere sections. These were too small. Ragwort had steadily increased in the Gore district during the last three years. He believed the weeds spread owing to the carelessness of farmers regarding the seed they sowed. There was no tendency to an aggregation of estates in the district around Gore, where the properties were mostly freehold.

Archibald Stewart, farmer, Wendon, said that at a meeting of School Commissioners' tenants in the Wendon district, at which he was chairman, the following tenants passed a resolution in favour of having their leases altered to leases in perpetuity : — Archibald Stewart, Joseph Cooper, William "Walker, Thomas Newell, James Andeison, A. W. Robertson, Walter Miller, John Stuart, A. Alexander, and George Tayles. Alexander Murdoch said he farmed 2000 acres of freehold and leasehold at Wcndonside. He had 560 acres of leasehold from the Otago School Commissioners, and had "been a tenant of that body for two years. The rent was 6d an acre. Most of the around was used for pastoral purposes. The settlers at Waipounamu had a meeting lately to consider the desirability of meeting the commission, and witness was appeinted to represent the settlers. The tenants, he might say, were well pleased with the School Commissioners as landlords, but were not pleased with their tenures. Their lease* weTe- for 21 years. They got valuation for buildings and fences, and had to leave two-thirds_of their holding in grass at th» end of the term. There was no encouragement for a man to put on improvements or to engage in good husbandry. The meeting decided to ask that the land* should be administered by the Land Board instead of the School Commissioners, and that the tenants should be- allowed to transfer their present leases for leases in perpetuity. The present settlers had mads homes fs/ themselves, tut «± $he end of

' their leases no value was put on those improvements that a farmer liked to put jn for his own comfort, and if another tenant took up the land at the end of the term the former occupant was a considerable loser. In reply to questions witness said the lands were fairly well looked after by the tenants, but they would be even better attended to if the tenants had a lease from the Land Board. At present there was no encouragement for a man to improve nis land up to the end of his term. Tokarahi, Maerewhenua. Ardgowan, Elderslie, an. l Waikakahi were, in his opinion, successful settlements. As a farmer of long experience he did not think that ha'f of the people would have been settled on the land on those estates if they had had to purchase their sections. He was aware that th& goodwill of some of the allotments on those estates had been solcl. One section of 180 acres, adjoining Duntrcon, had realised £800 for goodwill and lease. Another lessee had refused £1200 for the goodwill of his lease, and others had sold the goodwill of their leases for / what was at one timgoonsidered to bs about tho value of the laitd. There was no difficulty in North Otago in transferring a leas© at a handsome profit. At one time he was a resident in the Oamaru district. He would not favour the State giving the right of purchase to the settlers under ithe Land for Settlements Act or to tenants on education endowments. He would not support a revaluation clause in leases to be issued in th© future. He did nob favour revaluation under any circumstances. Mr Anstey: If anyone told you that a larg© number of settlers had abandone I "their holdings at Tokarahi or Waikakahi, would you think that he was telling th© truth, or that ho was making a misstatement? — I think he would be making a misstatement. Do you think the Advances to .Settlers Office can supply the daily needs of farmers as well as a private lender? — I think the State is hardly in a. position to undertake such temporary banking. Do you know whether money-lenders consider the lease in perpetuity a bad security? — I do not think they do. I know that a good deal of money has been advanced on that lease. __ James Pollock, farmer. Lower Wendonside, said he farmed 264- acres, 554- acres with his son-in-law, and 267 acres with his son. The land was all School Commissioners' reserve. He had been farming the land for nearly 13 years. The settlers were of opinion that the tenures were too short, and they would like to have leases in perpetuity instead of their present tenures. The leases had about eight years to run, and the farms were only beginning to com© into practical use. It was all tussock when they took it up, and there were no fences on it. Under present conditions the settlers got no valuation for grazing, plantations, or draining. The tenants had no objection to the School Commissioners as landlords. It was the tenure of their lease that they mainly objected to. He did not see that the State would suffer in any way if it gave a lease in perpetuity to tho tenants. William Mortimer, farmer, son-in-law of the previous witness, endorsed th© evidence given, by Mr Pollock and Mr Murdoch. James Kelly, farmer, Riversdale district, said he had 622 acres of freehold land. Yd a time he held 260 acres under lease in perpetuity, but sold his interest, though not to much advantage. He had been 24- years farming in the district. H© devoted his land principally to grazing : it was thr.3O miles from the town. Although he owned a freehold himself, he was of opinion that for the individual the leas© in perpetuity was the better tenure. He believed it would be an advantage in the district, and a safe investment for the Crown, to advance to a tenant three-fifths of his interest in his improvements. Colin Macandrew, secretary of the Otago School Commissioners, said ho had held tlie> office of secretary for 24- years. There were about 860 tenants under the School Commissioners, the area of land administered being 390,385 acres. Of that area 1221 acres were under the administration of the Otacyo Land Board, and 17,310 acres under th© Southland Land Board. The Chairman : I understand that Ih^ right of purchase is not now given? — That is so. What is the extent of your area in th© district about Waikaia, Wendon, and Wendonside? — About 4-8,694- acres of mixed land, mostly agricultural and rough land, and 123,7+1 acres of purely pastoral land in runs, making a total of 172,435 acres. I may say that this area is exclusive of what is held under th© Land Boards. W© have heard from a gi-eat many of the tenants that they ar© quite satisfied with th© Otago School Commissioners as landlords, but they are dissatisfied with their tenure. What they say is this : When a tenant comes to th© end of his lease he naturally ceases the general improvement of his farm, knowing- that the greater he improves the more likely he is to b© ousted bj someone

outbidding him. Their desire, of course, is to come under the ordinary administration of the Land Board, and to come under the lease- in perpetuity, so as to secure a greater continuity of tenure. Another grievance is that they only get valuation for improvements, consisting of houses and fencing, and not for grassing, ditching, or plantations. Do you confirm those statements? — Yc= ; but at the same timo the commissioners supply drain tiles where required free at the nearest railway station, but the tiles are not to be included in the valuation at the end of the lease. I might also say that the commissioners have at present under consideration the question of allowing valuation for grasping and plantations There would noo be. so much trouble so far as plantations ar© concerned, but at present there is some difference of opinion amongst the commissioners in regard to gracing. One or two tenants also expressed the , opinion that the present system of valuing ! improvements is one-sided, because Lh© , commissioners appoint their own officer, and i the tenants have no voice in the matter? — I : think there is a misunderstanding there. In regard to agricultural lands, the loase provides that, in the event of a disagreement, the value of the improvements shall be fixed by arbitration, and the tenant lias full voice in appointing his own. arbitrator. In regard to runs, the commissioners appoint their own valuer. As a matter of fact, we genev- \ ally try to come to an arrangement with a • tenant* beforehand about the upset rent, but the tenant has no voice in fixing it. Mr M' Cardie: Can jou say whether you receive 4- pc cent, on the capital value in rents? — Ye-s. In fixing our upsets wo base "the rent at 5 per cent, on the capital value, aii'l in a great many cases we get a great deal more owing to the fact that there is considerable competition In your opinion, do you think that the trust would suffer in any way if you gave the tenants a more secure or longer tenure, with valuation for improvements at the end of the term? Do you not think the properties would he very much better looked after if that were done- and that the rents would likely be higher? — Yes. 1 certainly think it would ha\e a tendency to raise the value' of the lands if we gave a longer term than 14- or 21 years' leases ; but under the present law we are limited to 21 y«aiv:. I might say that just now the School Commissioners are also considering,- the question of providing for a renewal of the leases without competition. Under the Public Bodies' Powers Act, under which the commissioners are working ju s t now, I think we have power to do so, but we require to nia'ke it a condition in each lease before entering into it. The objection, however, to doing this is that in some cas^s tho commissioners might want io subdivide the land into smaller areas. We have had a good deal of evidence in regard to the carryjng capacity of the land in this immediate neighbourhood, and apparently the subdivision of properties here would be of advantage to no one? — It would not. In nay opinion a great deal of the land up here should never have been taken out of runs. Mr Marheson : Has it ever struck you from a colonial point of -\icw that this large area of land could be more economically administered by the Land Board instead of having a duplicate system of administration?—l have no doubt it could he more economically done ; but I do not think it would bring in anything like the income that it doos now. What would make th& differpnee 9 — For one thing th-o land would be opened up under the ballot system, and would he lea-.cd at 4- per cent, on the capital value. It would not b" subject to competition at all, and would be tied up for 599 years if brought under the lease in perpetuity, •whereas now we get the benefit of any improvement in value by the opening up of a district. But if they administered your land according to your regulations, could it be more economically done from a colonial point of view? — Probably. Of course it is a larsje estate, and requires a. good deal of management both in the field and office. Mr Paul : Have the commissioners power to allow valuation for grassing without further legislation? — Yes. Why lw.\e they not given valuation for it?— Hitherto thoy have not thought it wise. They thought it would be better to simply stipulate that a certain portion should be laid down in grass at tho end of the 1-QPic. I fancy they are frightened of j being handicapped with the valuations. It is not a very" easy matter to value grass. I How do you \iovv the demand for the lease in perpetuity for these endowments?— In the interests of education T think it would be a mistake, because thr>y would only get 4- per cent, on the capital ialuo for 999 yoars, whereas they may g-et at present 10 per cent, or 15 por cent. Do you think th© tenants could be met by giving them the light of renewal of their present leases? — I think so. There is

another pomt — namely, if they were ' brought under the Lanel Board th© '' thirds'' ! and " fourths" would be taken off for | loads. As it is now the whole of the rents go to the fducational trust. I Mr Anstey: It means that if the lands | were administered by the Land Board th© tenants would have the '"thirds" and fourths" expended on roads? — Yes. Can you give rrfe any particular reason v.hy the tenants should not be brought ( under the administration of the Land Board : —that is. from th<> commissioners' point of view? — From the point of view of revenue — that is- the only reason. Mr Johnston : Is thoro any of the property that is not taken up? — There are a number of township sections in different places, such as in Lumsdon, whioh are not taken up, and which ar© a source of great expense to us. J think it would bo a good thing if \v© had tJie power to soil thoeo sections. As a rule, do tho tenants keep the- land clean? — We have pretty string-ent rules in our leases, and wo have recently appointed a range-i- — Mr Kirkpatnck — to go round periodically and repoit on every holding and see that the conditions of the iease are carried out. Generally speaking, th© settlers are a good stamp of settler? — In a great many instances the tenants have freeholds adjoining, more especially in tho settled parts of the country. When \ver© tho reductions made in th© rents? — Four or five years ago. The rents were reduced on account of the bad times, and also when, in the opinion of tho commissioners, th© tenants were paying too much for them. There has been a good deal of eompetitioi for the leases, and there is no doubt some of tho tenants were paying more than they were worth. Wore times good or bad when these leases were put up? — Thoy were not ac good as th&y are now. Don't you think it would be much fairer to put an upset price, on these leases the c ame as the Government does, and let them by straight-out ballot?— lt might be better for tho tenants, but I do i.ot think it would be so good for our trust. We would not get such a Jarge revenue. The. Chairman : What is the present annual i evenup of the School Commissioners? — £13,564- 2s 9d from all sources. Mr Johnston : Whore cc n ".>es this money go to? — To the Education Board, and it re-d-aces its giant from the Government. The revenue collected by the Otngo Board only comes to £56 3s sd, and by th© Southland Board £787 16s. Suppose tho leases were put up now, would you get higher rents? — I think wo would for the runs, but I think the agricultural holdings are fetching their full value al' round. Would it not he better for the Government to tale over all this land and allow the Education Department an income equivalent to what you got, and put th© land straight into the hands of the Waste Land Board? — It might be. I could not say. In reply to the Chairman, Mr Macandrew said that the education endowments in Otago under the control of th© Otago School Commissioners were: — For primary education, 387.663 acres, capital value £372,880, rent £12,867; for secondary education, 2721 acre*, capital valup £21,4-54, rent £696. Mr Matheson said that as the money derived from these endowmencs went to reduce th© Education Board's grant from tho Government they wsrj not provincial endowments at all, but colonial endowments.

The Chairman s-aid that that was really tl o position. No more e\idance was tendered.