DEPUTATION FROM SAWMILLERS. ITINERARY FOR CENTRAL OTAGO.

Otago Witness, Issue 2660, 8 March 1905, Page 17

DEPUTATION FROM SAWMILLERS. ITINERARY FOR CENTRAL OTAGO.

| INVERCARGILL, March 2L , The Land Commission held its final meeting- in Invereargill to-day, when, some very I interesting evidence was given, notably that of Mr -Xieggat, who appeared on behalf cf the sawixullers. On the reading of the ' minutes it came out that at a committee j. meeting,-' held at Otautau, it was agreed i that the' commission's report should, if pos- . sible, be prepared, in time for presentation, I to Parliament at its opening. The secretary I was proceeding to read the minutes of other ' matters discussed at tire same meeting, I when several m&rnbers urged that these matters ought to be dealt with in committee. It was decided to a&k the press representatives and waiting witnesses to retire, whioh they did, and when the commission resumed in /public no more was heard of the minutes. Edward HenTy Whitmore, printer, Invereargill, said he held three-quarters of an acre suburban land. He proceeded to put a number of questions to the chairman with regard to values of land, and was informed that the subjects he was touching on were outside the scope of the commission. He went on to suggest that the law should be alter-ed to compel owners of land, such as the trustees of the late Mr J. T. Thomson, held in and round Invereargill, to dispose of* it either privately, or to the municipality, or to the Government. The Chairman pointed out that the law already enabled the Government to take land eompulsorily. In reply to a question, the witness said the land he referred to was in South'and County, though in the immediate vicinity of the town. A. Bain, chairman of the Bluff Harbour Board, said the board had a reserve of about 34-, 800 acres up country, but had no control over it, aa the Land Board controlled it. The Harbour Board did not handle even the proceeds from the leasss ; they were sent to the Public Trustee in Wellington, to be placed in a sinking fund for the loan. Tlie board paid the interest on the loan out of it* ordinary revenue. The reserve was subdivided into three small runs, the rental from which was about £4-80. He believed that if the Harbour Board had had the administration of the reserve it would have been better for the tenants. Mr Paul : Do you approve of parting wUh the freehold of endowments? Witness : If the board got an equivalent it would be right enough. Do you think it would be wise to part with education. Harbour Board, -and other endowments? — If they got an equivalent, I would say yes. The equivalent would bo in money? — Yes; that i s tho only equivalent that could be given to them. If these bodies had a cash endowment equal to what they are getting from the land, I have no doubt it would he better for the country to give the freehold. A DEPUTATION. A deputation consisting of Messrs J. Leggat (manager for Messrs M'Callum and Co.), W. Timpany, J. Timpany, and W. Hensley, waited on the commission. Mr Liesgat. who acted as spokesman, said he had been in the employment of M'Callum and Co. for the past 22 years, and he had bean in this district for '25 years. T^lie Chairman : Will you state what you wish to bring before the commission? Witness : I appear on behalf of the sawmillers in this district. First of all, the sawmillers r felt that the proposal to reserve 2,500,000 acYes as a national park will be a hardship not only to them, but to the community generally by-and-bye. At present it is scarcely possible to secure a sawmilling area ia Southlr.. J, and in the pro-p-o'-ed reserve there were a good many patches of bush suitable for sawmilling. There are no great bushes, such as those of Seaward Bush, but there are many that aie capable t>f supporting a sawmill, and in the very n Var future we are certain to require bushes down there, or else close down our mills. We thii*k that the mere fact of a sawmill going through a bush does not aff«t t it at all f ,/om a scenic point of view, but , on the contrary, in fact, we believe it rather improves it, in this way : that the bush. in. its natural state is almost macoas-

sible. After the sawmiller has gone througl and laid off tramways and cut" tracks, th« bush is made accessible to tourists and others. In my opinion, also, the under, growth which comes about the edge of it improves the bush from a scenic standpoint. As a matter of fact, no one could tell without going into a bush that a sawmill had gone through, or that a mill had ever been there. So much timber that is of no use to the sawmiller is left that the scenic property is not at all affected. Where is this bush which you say it I* proposed to reserve ?— From -.vhat I }»■- - seen of the map in the i.and Office '- clown about the Sounds and Fiord Coy I have not been there myself.

If this scenic reserve is made, you ~ay you will have to close down?— l "suppose so. Our mill a_t present will not run for more than four to six months in the busb we have at present on the west coast, and if there is no chance of setting more oush we will have tc go out of the industry. At the present time we are working: under a license from the Land Board. The easily accessible bushes about Southland are either cut out or held already. What is the nature of the timber in theproposed reserve — Mostly- reel pine of h. fair quality. Of cour.-o in other parts of tl;o (.„ - the objection to your proposal is thar s:r,vmilfe generally leave a litter of branehe-% which in a dry season are apt' to take fire and destroy the remainder of tha bush; do you apprehend any danger of that "kind on the west coast ?— No ; we ■generally want more heat and less wet. Mr M'Cutchau : In tbe event of this sorve being thrown open to sawmilling would you fix maximum and minimum sawmill areas?— x hat is the law at present. They will giant one sawmill more than 800 acres"; but I was going to suggest that where th^ bush is thinly planted the quantity of bush should bear some proportion to what is considered a fair sawmilling -area. Suppose two sawmill areas are started and on© carries 10,000 ft to the acre—that means ifc will be able to cut 8,000.000 ft of timber: another may secure 800. which only carries 1000 ft to the acre, and then it only gets 800,000 ft of timber, although the miller .s put to the same initial/expense in erecting plant, etc. We think that is an anomaly that ought to be rectified. Ifc seems to us absurd that a man who puts up a smallengine of. say, 5 h.p., and does everything in the cheapest way. at a cost of about £300, should be able to hold as much .bush, as a man or company who puts in a substantial plant and good tramways at a cost of perhaps £3000. We think the area of such should bear some proportion again to the amount expended. Under the present conditions is there a time limit within which the bush must be cut out?— When an area of 800 acres is applied for the board grants 200 acres of that area and holds 600 acres in reserve, and a miller is allowed three years '-n. which to cut oufc the first 200 acres, and! tor fne remaining 600 acres he is allowed^ two years for each 200 acres. You think it is a mistake to protect iho scenery at the expense of the sawmilling industry?— l think it is perhaps a question ot degree. If the scenic business was going to bring 5s to the Government of the v > colony and the sawmilling only 2s 6d iH might be a mistake to protect trie sawmilling industry if it could not be shown.' to be of more value than the other. Wo do not -want to be particularly selfish. Mr Johnston : When you go into a husband cut out these trees is it not a fact that a large accumulation of weeds and other noxious growths follows ? — Certainly growths spring up.

Do you not find lagworfr and Californiao, thistle make an appearance? — I see plenty of them in the open plains, but not in the bush. It is just possible there may be a little, but I would not like to say they follow necessarily.

You made a comparison between a large and a small mill. How long will a large mill take to cut out 200 acres? — A large mill might cut out 100 acres in a year, and a small mill spin out the same area to any length of time.

What is the total number of hands, roughly speaking, employed in the sawmilling industry in Southland? — I suppose somewhere about 1000.

_Mr Paul : From your experience, you believo that the eawmilling industry can be' carried on without affecting the scenic value of the bush? — Yes; more than that, it will be improved.

Mr M'Lennan : What capital is pxit in cir* cutation in wages alone by an average saw< mill in a year? — Somewhere about £2500 a! year in bare wages. How many mills will be closed down ifi this area of laad is not opened for sawmilling? — At present about 60 mills are working,, and just as they get cut out and cannot gefc' more bwsh, they will cease working. Some will ran a little longer than others, justf as they have acquired areas at more receHl dates. I should! certainly saar that betw&ejr

• Jhe- next three and six years a great many -will cloie down. Mr Ansfejrv Apart from the £2500 in wages, cau you give us a rough estimate oi the other expenses attached to the mills? — "You may say £1000 a year safely. You say a fully-pqaipped mill will cut down 100 acres a year, therefore you spend £3500 on these 100 acres in a year? — Yes. -Do you think that the tourist traffic attached to the 100 acres would bring anything approaching £3500? — I have not studied the tourist, question at all, but it seems to me at a first, glance^ to be absurd to suppose so. Mr M 'Car die: In your estimate of the money spent by' each mill in a year, do you include the amounts paid in railway freight on timber? — No. .Can you form any rough idea of the revenue the railway derives from an average - ' "mill in a year? — I should say the amount » would be from £2000 to £3000 a year. | Then, not only the workers of the j _, colony suffer a great loss if the mills were , ~. " dosed down,' l>ut the" railways would also ' - - lose ? — That is so, ; j "'- /Mr~Hall: Are we to understand that the i 1"-i 1 "-- Jitter that is left by a / mill does not endanger | -the "rest of ihe bush? — I would not like to. ' y^say that absolutely. - There is just a possi- •_ Wlity - after the .bush hae. been cut out* that J-Jthe, danger, from 'fire might be increased. - r .'Of^.course you' .admit ■ that "the bush is i -^something -which -cannot , be /reproduced atJ - -«iy_- cost? — Yes; "it is a of the ' -reUttive values of the different- industries. j , *'llr Anstey: 'Is there unore- danger of fire - spreading and destroying standing"bush be- ] fore the bush is cut' or while it is - being _i_cut; or after it lias been cut? — I should say ..there is more danger •"after the Bush is~cut; "the danger would - l»e slightJv increased in * an exceptionally dry season, but this -danger, doea not apply with the same force in "the _j «outh as in the north. ,5 Is there . not much danger of fire in a standing bush? — Fires <3o go through the I>ush owing to the carelessness of tourists and sportsmen. I do not know of any extensive fire^ that has happened through ■-- that _ cause. l ""'- Mr Johnston : Do you know how long it j _ would take to cut out "the timber in the ! .proposed- reserves? — I have no idea at all. - -' Of course the sawmills only last until the --timber is -cut out, while the tourist traffic will last any number of years? — Yes. And there will- be a greater income from s the. tourists, than from the sawmills eventually? — Yes; but I hold you can have both > industries. Mr M'Cutchan-r "Will the setting up ' buildings and wharves in these sounds in j ; -connection with the timber industry be likely j > to lead~to a development in the fishing in- - dustry? — There are signs of it at the preeent. '- The fishing industry has started within a few miles of Ihe present site of our ■ - mills, and there is a talk of further develop- - ment. Thomas Hannan, labourer, said he had a ' leasehold section of five acres at Seaward Bush. He had held it for 18 years. He ~ would like to have the freehold of the land. " ~He Had a family of 11. His wife held six fccres on_Jease. He required more land, : bhe present area being too small for him. . He would rather have the freehold of aj

(mall section than a fairly large leasehold. \