CHARITABLE AID COMMISSION.

Otago Witness, Issue 2215, 13 August 1896, Page 24

CHARITABLE AID COMMISSION.

The inquiry as to whether the charges made by the Benevolent Institution Trustees on the CharitaWe Aid Board were excessive or net was resumed at the Magittrate's Courb on Friday, before Meiirs E. H. Carew, S.M., D. Reid, aud N. Y. A. Wales, commissioners. Mr White appeared for the board, and Me Cook for the trustees. Mr Cook, in opening his case for the Benevolent Trustees, said there were tbree causes of complaint— (1) the system, (2) the mode of administration, and (3) the estimata inada by the trustees. The system had nothing to do •with the inquiry, but ib hsd bfeu so strongly condemned by Mr White that it was desirable that the public should know how it worked. In his annual report Dr MacGrpgor had stated that an increase of relief had been found necessary sil over the colony. Dr MacGregor's report fully supported the contention of the irufttreithat a larger sum than ever was required. The rate which property had to piy for obari table aid had been denounced as an intolerable burden. In reality it was only 2d and a small fraction of a Id in the £. 'Hut was to say, that a property in town valued at £60 a year had to pay 10a to 12s for charitable aid rates, and in the country a person owning a farm worth £2000 would have to pay £1 to £1 53. This could not be said to be a large sum for a person to pay to compound with his conscience for all olsims on his charity and generosity. He would remind the commissioners that when Charles Dickens wrote the "Uncommercial Traveller" the poor rite in Wapping was 5s 6d in the pound, and even now in London since the rate was made uniform it was Is 6d in the pound. Mr D. Reid : We hoped to have left all that behind us. You want to bring it back. * Mr Cook said that in criticising the administration of the trustees grave reflections had been made on these gentlemen, who gave a large amount of gratuitous time and at'entiori to the "work. Tbe trusteea • had every right to expect that tho statements which had been made in' such broad language would have, been supported by evidence. Amongst the trustees were two members of the Charitable Aid Board, before whom all caies for relief were heard, so that the board had every facility and every j opporfc»~ J " to find out all particulars of j :\iZ nitration of outdoor relief. Not* | flHiwfcauu'ißK th.ii Mid all tbe lUtomentl tiut

had been made, not one tittle of evidence had been brought forward to prove the charge of negligent or improper administration againsft' the trustees. The trustets felt very strongly that such charges should have been mads' •against tbera, nnd that although the board had had every opportunity they had rnwle uo attempt to sustain this charge, IE it was not withdrawn he trusted that ths) ommissiou would notice it in'thair reports This brought him to the estimate for the year. A statement had been prepared and supplied to the board showing the details ot their requirements. In sending in a requisition for a lump sum the trustees had followed the custom of bygone years. As a rule the requisition had been accompanied by a letter, and afterwards tbe chairmen of the two bodies met, and, if necessary, the gross amount was* reduced by mutual consent. If the amount were not found to be sufficient the trustees used to atk the board for more, and it was always supplied. However, last October the secretary to the Charitable Aid Board had written to Mr Clulee and drawn his attention to the fact that the trustees were overdrawing their estimate, and requiring them to keep within it in future. The trustees, finding that they could not possibly reduoe their estimate/ declined to alter their requisition, and hence the oause of tbe inquiry. Mr Cook here put in the following estimate of receipts and expenditure, whioh showed the difference between this and last year's requirements :—•

In answer to Mr Carew, Mr Cook said th« Government tubiidy received by the trustees on contributions was 24a to the pound. Mr Cook said the total amount asked for this year was £11,500, and they hid an overdraft of £218, so that in reality the total required was £11,718. Last year the trustees' grant was £10,500, and iv addition they bad ab the commenottmonfc of that year a credit balance of £139 17a 3-1. They alao had a subsequent grant of £284 8s Bd. They also had £112 over of .a relief fund collected for a special purpose. Lust year over £6000 was raised for relief works, and there was no chance of any funds being subscribed for a similar purpose this year. The estimates for the institution had also barn somewhat iucrensei. Bttwoen £2000 and £3000 had baen fpont fa* extra buildings, and even then tho institution was as full* ai it could hold, and increased attendenoe was necefsiry. The outdoor relief showed no signs of decreasing, abd the estimate for the expenditure under that head (£BOI7 5s 9d) was the name as the previous year. The trustees had lit' ls hops of it being any less, ste Ihe majority of cases were people who wtre old and past 'work, widows, dererted wives, and women whose husbands were in gaol or in tbe asylum. The return of ihoie assisted who were out of work was gradually reducing. For instance, in March this ye&r there were 23 such cases and in Jutie only 17. The improvement of tr*de and th 9 greater demand did nob appear to affect the outdoor relief. There wera only two method* of reducing the amountgiren for outdoor relief— either to i educe the number of cases or reduce the amount in each case. The cues were first! of all carefully considered by the inspector and then afterward* di'cassed by the trustees, and every care was taken to prevent imposture. In tbe cases coming from the country no relief was given withou 1 ; first consulting the ltc*l body concerned. The trustees had brought down the expendiuire to 4s a head for adults and 9d per head for children, and this was really as low as they could bring it. Mr Cook quoted a speech made by Mr John Roberta when he was chairman of the trustees in 1894 in support of hiß contention that the relief given was only a vary poor dole. Tne digest prepared br tie Charitable Aid Board for the purposes of the iuquiry was altogether mishading, ai tbe cost per head o; those relieved depended more upon howlorjg they were on the books thin ou the amounts given, so th»b ia years when the numbers relieved were smaller the cost; psr bead was often larger than when a greater number were receiving casual relief.

Robert Chisholm, chairman of the Bduevolent Trustee;, s&id he had been one of fcUo trustees for seven years. He described tha process which applications for relief have to go through befoie they are dealt with. Tbe amount of relief varied from 2s to 22s per week. To show the averago he laid 276 caiea received 5« a weak and under, 177 cases from 53 to 10s, 17 cases from 10« to 15s, and 4 esses from 15) to 22t. The latt cases included a number of 'children who were boarded out in different families. He had had a return prepared which showed thab the caies dealt with had increased this year. The digest prepared by the Charitable Aid Board was very misleading. The nature of ths cases was altering for tbe worse every year and becoming more numerous He gave evidence from several returns which had been prepared ie support of Mr Cook's opening statements, and gave credit to the inspector for the work he did. He then dealt with each item of the estimate of receipts and expenditure, and gave it as bis opinion that the estimate of expenditure was, if anything, too low. The expenenco of the last four months led him to think thab there would be a deficiency of from £400 to £500 on the-year. ■ Mr Chisholm, cross-examined by Mr Whitq, . e»id tbe estimate as to outdcor lelief was made up ffcm previoua years' expenditure. It had , steadily increased since matters came under the control of the trustees. It might be a facb that} * the reason why the cost was greater where tbq , number of casei wai less was due to there being mor© adults than children, but witness'! explM nation of it was that the smaller number of caies were more continuous daring the 12 ' months. Cases that only received 4s or 6s a week were now receiving 6i aad 7s f becaai* women, for example, vied to get washing whica they did not get mw. Xhe iuowaied xwttf 1 1

the cases was a reason why the cost had gone tip. • Witness thought that some provisions jwere cheaper and some dearer, generally speaking cheaper, therefore the dole went further. There were very fgw exceptions where a man Jfcbo cotlld work was relieved without working \rat the amonnt of his relief. Where prople 'tapested to get work they received aid, and ■when they got work they were required to pay the Amount received. The trustees oould not afk women to work; they had nowhere to send them to work. Had never asked the board to, provide means to this end. Most of the women had a large number of children, and they could not go away and work, and get someone to take Jtheir place athome. Witness and the obairknan bad gone out to the institution with a view to looking out a site for a laundry, and jprobably one would have been erected but for the stand the board had made. In that case 'work would have been provided for some of the 'women. Notwithstanding Mr Farnie's statement about their being comparatively few unemployed, there was a very large numbor of people on the books of the trustees. In Explanation of a part of his speech at the annual meeting, witness said that if pinched it would cause the trustees to be very niggardly at .the institution, and Dr MacGregor had several '4imes spoken against patients nursing patients there. The reason for the falling off of £100 odd in the contributions was that many giving subscriptions were gradually reducing them. Them was a tendency that way, and the Uubady fell with the ■ subscriptions. She .garden at the institution - produced more than" were required, and the balance Wasspld, were made to g«t' donations "bf clothing , through the medium of the preis, but unfortunately not much came in. The (amount* granted in aid were kept as low as * Charles Haynes, treasurer for the trusteep, And. member of that body, said he was present when the statement was made up, and did not see any reason to dissent from it. The trustees had to devote at least a day a week to their work, and the chairman more than that. The outdoor relief could not be cut down. It was the constant theme they had at every me9ting. They tried to keep it as low ai possible. There were no cases on the books that were improper, or that had not been inquired into. He caw no reason why the outdoor relief should be less this year than last. A) a matter of faot it was more.

Cross-examined by Mr White : The trustees made every effort to compel the relatives of those receiving aid to corifcnbufca towards their support. Tbe cases considered on Wednesday averaged from 35 to 70. In reply to a question as to what effort was made to get the oases off the books, witness said that unfortunately once on the books they remained there. This was the case to a great extent. The trustees urged upon recipients of aid to get theirobildren into some situation ; threatening that unless this wai done the relief would cease. There was no person receiving aid who was nob entitled to it. As to the amounts given, there was a difference of opinion among the trustees as to that. Witaee* did not see any possibility of keeping down the outdoor relief. • AlfrodClulee, secretary for 12 years to the institution, said he was present when the «stirmte of receipts and expenditure was made jap. The demands were likely to be more rath<r than less as time went ou. Lastyear the inspector only collected contributions to the "SXbent of £70 or £80. dross-examined : Witness said that in his opinion no cases were relieved improperly. Witness accounted for the. steady increase in expense by theiaot that women had not been able to get work as they had done in past ye*ra. Edward Favell, inspector, stated that he took every precaution to make inquiries respecting • cases for relief. In some instances he recommended that they be struck off the li*t. _ Did not know of one case that was being relieved improperly. . To Mr White : When he was in the country he vhited every ca r e that was on the books. On one occasiou tb.it he visited the country his recommendations resulted in a saving of £8 or £9 a week. Those cases were recommended by. the local authorities. They were improperly recommended. Invariably where he recommended that cases be struck off the books, that vr&s done .or a reduction made.

Robrrb Chisholm (recalled) said that when Dr MacGregor was in town he expressed satisfaction ab tiie completeness of the arrangements at the institution.

James Robin (recalled) wished to make an explanation In connection with his proposal to give the trustees £11,500. Tb.ii was done entirely in the interests of peace and quietness, and in order that they should have no difference. With regard to haviDg said that he did not kr.o-<v of any case where aid waß being improperly bestowed, he would like to state that he bad no more knowledge of cases than members of the commission. He sometimes came across oue or two cases in a oaeual manner.

Thi6 concluded the inquiry, and, Mr Carew baying intimated that the commissioners would report; to the Colonial Secretary, the commission rose.