FRIDAY, JUNE 26.

Otago Witness, Issue 2209, 2 July 1896, Page 22

FRIDAY, JUNE 26.

In' the Legislative Coutiail to - djiy-vlfie- . debate on- the-^esorid reading jof the Asiatic* Restriction Bill was not concluded. "' " " ' ' UNDKStRABr.B rifaIjGBANTS; ~ The Hon. W. C. WALKER,' in moving thesecond reading of the Asiatic Restriction Bill, said that in his opinion the bill was a very neces.tsry onei It was right that tbii colony should m*ko access lo its shores to Asiatic races as difficult as to that of ■ the other colonies. The Cuiuese were now invading various trades and competing injuriously with oar aolooiats. .If tbe Cainese were shut out of the other oolo* nies it was only natural that they should-bo barred by equal prohibitions here. In Wellington itself the Chineie population had almost doubled itself within the last five yvois. tha numbers being 107 in 1891 and 212 in 1896.. , Though the number of Chinese was comparatively uml!, yet v*riom trades were already feeling tho result of their competition. Oa the print of morah'ty, too, it was necessary that) the number of Chinese should be prevented from inorpating. Ths Chintso race w*s one which did not b'eud with any satisfactory re* suits with the Caucasian races. A member, whose name wa? not telegraphed, thought the aot wa* a very cruel aud * very vague one. He- pointed out that A«ia was a very large plara, and instanced Parsees and Hindoos as immigrant! that were in every way desirable. „ The Hon. Mr SHRIHSKI also opposed the bill, and ridiculed the -id<?a of an it,flur of Chinese by quoting fi^urea to prove that tho number of Chinese in the colony hud been decreasing in the last few years. He* thought the bill .had boea introduced, by the Government?for - okohion purpoees, and also'to replenish .the* coffer* of the Treasury by- raising the poll ,tax- ■ from £10 to £100. He .therefore mored- that tbe bill should be read six months, hence. The Hon. Di-.GRaCB considered it rtfkuloui > for us to presam«;by legislation' to exclude from our cohmy her Mnjefcty's Asiatic subjectu. Tha'Hon. lit RIG 6 was of opinion th*fr we coald by legislation, exclude anyone we obose from our colony. He characterised the Chinefe . race as. in every- rtspeot' immoral. In. his opinion those who rented their property to Chinese at a higher rate than to Europeans were ai bad'a cla«» as the Coine«e. The Hon. Sic G. S: WHITMORff Mb sate ' that the bill was inspired merely, by motives.of tradf, and 'hat there was no danger to the community from the presence of Chinese: A. com* . parisdn between the Chinese morality and our own might not be altogether to the advantage

«f oar race. The Chinese were ad present jjWnongst us in such small numbers that no danger was to be feared to the community. jXheproposal to exclude other races was a most on-English one. He thought that the scope of the bill was too wide, but that was a matter jthat could be corrected in Committee, when her Majesty's eubjeots in India might be exoluded tfrom the operation of the bill. He believed wist there was an overwhelming majority of 'people in favour of the measure. The Hon. Mr BOWEN held that according to the traditions of the English r*ce it was Always an exceptional case when the English would exclude any race from their colonies. Sfhe bill had been brought in without any thought of an immediate incursion of undesirable races. The measure was not designed in any way to foster trade relations with such a powerful nation as Japan. There might be a time when we would be only too glad of an Alliance with the Japanese Government. We Should rememember that there was a people in this colony before us who thought us undesirable immigrants. We therefore had no right to say that we (the present occupants) would bar anyone' else from coming here. ! The Hon. Mr FHAIUZYN also opposed the bill. This country was not so very attractive after all, ' as was witnessed by the exodas of population that had been recently going on. The Hon. Mr MONTGOMERY supported the measure on moat points, and quoted extracts to prove that the Chinese were an undesirable race to Europeans. v The Hon. W. D. STEWART said that as the Lower House was more in touch with public opinion, the jGrouncil should be chary of opposing its efforts to pass measures. He would therefore support the second reading. . The Hon. Mr KELLY thought that our "workmen, accustomed to a higher standard of living, should not be compelled to compete with Chinese, who would work all hours for a wage on whioh Europeans oculd not live. The Hon. G. M f LEA.N ridiculed the idea of the country being flooded with a horde of Chinese! On the contrary, the Chinese were slowly but surely leaving the colony. He suggested that' if the measure was only an instalment of other Undesirable Immigrants Bills it would be well to keep the bill in abeyance for a week or two until the other sections of the bill came up, He therefore moved the adjournment of the debate. % The motion was lost by 19 votes to 14. The Hon. Messes Kerr, Jenningf, and Jepkinson gave strong reasons why Chinese should not be admitted to the colony. Tho three speakers were in favour of increasing the poll tax to £500. ■ '- The Hon. G. JONES moved the adjournment of the debate. <• At 5 p.m. the Council adjourned.

In.'tbe House of Representatives to - day the afternoon was taken up in replying to questions. In. the evening the Premier adjourned the motion for morning sittings. The debate on the scope and' constitution of the proposed Banking Committee was 'also adjourned. 1 , - | CHJBSriONS. Replying to Mr Tanner,'- < .•.'■• The H&p.Mr HALL-JONES said the Government contemplated.. some amendment in the Public J Works Act with' a view, of- averting. N friction beiweeu" local bodies vn jthe. question 1 'of the ccutrol and maintenance- of boundary roads. Replyingto'M?-Collins,~whether if, considering the. impossibility of passing the Local Government Bill this session, he will introduce a short bill enacting that all future municipal elections shall be- conducted on the basis of ■ household suffrage, The Hon. Mr SEDDON laid he hoped the House would consider, the Local Government Bill this seisiou, and if .the Government were enabled. to pass that bill .provision, ought to be made, whoreby, the next municipal' ejections should take place on an enlarged franchise. Replying to. Mr Allen, whether the Minister for Railways can see his way to make fome rearrangements of railway freights on rabbits, so as to provide that weights from lewt downwards may be carried at a lower rate' than at present, : The Hon. Mr OADMAN said the department could not make any fuither reduction than it had already done. .Replying to Mr Mtusey, The Hod. Mr HALL-JONES said the question of - introducing .a bill providing for a colonial scale of payment for public school ' teachers was a serious matter, and he oould not

at present promise to do so. • Replying to Mr Allen, whether the Government will bring in a bill to provide that farmers desirous of wire-netting their farms may have advances to them from the Government Advances to Settlers Office under suitable conditions for. repayment, The Hon. J. M'KENZIE said a bill would be brought in, but not with 'this object. The Government proposed to deal with, this question Jby enabling a number, of settlers to combine and get money under the Lpcal Bodies Act for this purpose. . i Replying to Dr Newman, wby the Govern- . ment issued to the Bank, of New Zealand £500,000 of debentures 'without securing payment of interest thereon, . The Hon. Mr SEDDON said the hon. member was aware that a law was passed authorising the issue of these debentures, and the Government proposed to introduce an act obviating the necessity of asking shareholders Toting on the payment of interest. ■ Reply iDg to Mr Meredith whether, in the face of the startling fact disclosed by the census returns that the male population of the colony exceeds the female population by, 40,000, the Government will taka steps, by. immigration or - otherwise, with a ..view to bring about an . equalisation in the, proportion of the sexes of the colony, The Hon. Mr SEDDON said if the hon. geutleman meant that the Government should put on a, bachelor' tax, it would receive serious consideration. - Replying to Mr G. J. Smith, whether it is the Intention of the Government to follow the course adopted last year with reference to the sinking funds of local bodies loans, The Hon. Mr SEDDON said the Government would act in accordance with the law in this matter. ' ' , . ' Replying to Mr M'Nab, whether the Minister for Lands will extend the. provisions of •• The £snd Aot 1892" to enable the seonrity provided to be given to the local authority for rates due by lessees or licensees who. are in default in payment of their rates, and whose leases or licenses are- forfeited -for reasons other than non-payment of such rates, ; The H6n. J. M'KENZIB said no complaint of this kind had reached him, but he should look into, the matter and see if he could afford Jny redress. ' Replying to Mr R. Thompson,, whether the Government will, during the present session, Introduce a bill to amend the Shipping and Seamen's Aot so as to encourge shipping companies to employ a reasonable number of boys as apprentices on each vessel, .«£* Hotter HALL- JOKES laid be. eiwuld

go into the matter carefully, as he was anxious our boys should be employed in this way. Replying to Mr O'Regan, The Hon. J. M'KENZIE said inquiries would be made as to the efficacy of Brookes's sheep dip as an eradioator of noxious weeds. Replying to Mr Collins, The Hon. Mr SEDDON said inquiries were being made as to the number of unemployed, and if work was available the most necessitous of the cases would receive employment. Replying to Mr Massey, if- the Minister for Railways will obtain the opinion of experts as to whether bituminous coal or lignite is safest to ÜBe in railway engines (so far as the danger from sparks is concerned), Tho Hon. Mr CADMAN said it was found that bituminous coal was less dangerous than other coal on the railways, and he sww no reason to make any change. Replying to Dr Newman, The Hon. J. M'KENZIE said nothing had been done towards gettiug reserves as an endowment for a (university for the middle district of Ntw Zealand, and he might say that he and his colleagues were opposed to granting land as an endowment for universities, as the endowments had been mismanaged in the past. Replying to Mr Millar, if the Government would introduce a bill to compel all companies registered under the Companies or Banks Acts to have their books audited by Government auditors, and all assets to be valued by Government valuers, The Hon. Mr SEDDON said something would have to be done in this respeot, but he was not very clear what their action should be. . | , Replying to Mr Hall, whether the Government will so amend the Corrupt Practices Act as to make it illegal for candidates to canvass for votes, The Hon. Mr SEDDON said an Electoral Bill would be brought before the House, and members would then have an opportunity of disoußsing this question. Replying to Mr M'Gowan, if the Government will, during the session, introduce an amendment to the B&nkruptoy Aot by which a dis; tinction may be, made in the case of a bankrupt who does not wilfully conceal the true state of his affairs and one who wilfully and with intent omits to keep«roper books of accouut, The Hon. Mr SEDDON said a Bankruptcy Bill wculd be introduced, and the matter referred to was well worth consideration.. Replying to Mr J. W. Kelly, if the Premier will take the necessary steps to proseoute all . persons connected with the issue of a false bond warrant for £30,000 on the firm of John Counell and Co., of London, according to the evidence given in the case recently heard before Mr | Justice Williams inDunedin, ! The Hon.. Mr SEDDON said that pending ; the inquiry of the Banking Committee to be set up it was unfair to ask the Government for its opinion on this matter. In reply to Sirß. Stout what Native Minister, if any, in the years 1884, 1885, 1886, or 1887 sanctioned the removal of or advised the Governor to remove any restriction on the Horowhenua block, . TheJlon. Mr .SEDDON said tho removal took place on D«oemb«r 17, 1886. . \ . Replying to Mr O'Rpgan if it is proposed to -amend, the .Advances to Settlers Act so as to allow proprietors of dairy cheese, factories to borrojv under its provisions, 1 • The.Hon. J. M'KENZIE said a bill would be introduced, when this question could be -dealt with. Replying to Mr Mills, who was Premier during the years 1884,' 1885, 1886, and 1887 when the restriction was removed from the Horowhenua block and the names of the persons or firms in whose favour the restrictions was bo removed, . The- Hon. Mr SEDDON said the. name of the Premier was Stout, and the name of the firm Bievwright and Stout, , - , Sir R. STOUT, io personal explanation, said he was not in Wellington when this was done, and he < never knew of any restriction' being removed until the Premier stated so the other evening. He had nothing whatever to do with the removal of the restriction, nor did he benefit in any way by it. In reply to Dr Newman if it was true that Mr Gordon has been allowed to aot as a oivil servant whilst also acting as general manager of a company, if so wby such special privileges have been granted, The Hon. Mr CADMAN said it was quite true that some time ago Mr Gordon was offered four times his present salary, and his services to the Government would terminate at the end of the present month. Replying to Mr Buchanan, from what vote the travelling expepses of the extra police attending the Premier's mee'tinga throughout the colony are defrayed, The Hon. Mr SEDDON said he believed it was always the practice of the police to pay Donour to a Minister of the Crown when travelling, and .that honour bad been . paid to him. He would just as soon have the company of Mr Buchanan himself ; and he believed the only occaiion on which the services of the police were required was in Wellington when the' senior member of that city addressed his constituents*.

Replying to Mr G. W. Russell, as to whether the Government propose to call an Attorneygeneral to the Ministry or whether it is intended that the Legislative Council should continue' to be led by a member of the Executive Counoil holding a portfolio without salary, The Hon. Mr SEDDON said to far the public service had not suffered. He should take care that it did not suffer. He had heard no oomplaints with respect to the leadership of the Council under the Hon. Mr Walker, and as that gentleman was leading the. Council without salary he thought it was creditable to him.'

Replying to the Hon. W. J. Steward, whether, an entomologist had been appointed in connection with the Department of Agriculture, The Hon. J. M'KENZIE said the matter was under consideration, and in the meantime/ the duties were performed by the Government pomologist in Wellington. Replying to Mr Buchanan whether the Government are aware that one of the departmental heads of the Government Insurance department is soliciting subscriptions for an oil painting of the Premier, The Hon. Mr SEDDON said he had heard it stated that civil servants had not souls of their own, and after seeing the question on the Order Paper he (Mr Seddon) believed it. He thought this was done to encourage fine art, and it might have been done ao v a purely departmental matter, seeing he (Mr Seddon) Waß a large policy-rholder in the department, m the Same way as a picture had been formerly painted of Sir J. Vogel. Replying to Mr G. Hutchison, if the Governor bar yet directed the Representation Commission to take the necessary steps to divide the oolony 'iato electoral districts following on the census of this year, and if such direction has not been given, whether the Premier can state when it is likely to be given, The Hod, Me SEDDON said it was imsofi-

sible to direct the commission till the complete census returns were received. The Government were using every expedition in the matter, and would, as soon as -possible, bring the whole matter before the House. Replying to Mr Buohanan, whether he was aware that a subscription list is being handed round among officers of the Post and Telegraph departments for the purpose of presenting a testimonial to the late Postmaster-general, The Hon. Mr SEDDON said he was informed that day that this was the caso, and that it was a private and non-official affair. He had no hesitation in saying that he fully appreciated the officers of the department doing what they were doing, and he scarcely thought anyone would question their action. Replying to Mr Hogg, if the Minister for Lands is aware that a fee of one guinea is being charged for the approval of applications to mortgage ; if so, will he take steps to have this imposition discontinued, ' The Hon. J. M'KENZIE said when he had heard of this practice he had given instructions to step it, and further, had given instruolions to have the fees refunded. Replying to Mr T. Mackenzie, whether the Government would reduce railway fares so as to enable invalids to cvail themselves of the curative properties of the Thermal Springs at Rotorua and elsewhere in New Zealand, The Hon. Mr OADMAN eaid the railway fares had been already reduced as low as possible, and he could promisa no farther reduotions. THE BANKING COMMITTEE. The Hon. Mr SEDDON moved— "That a select committee of 10 members be appointed to examine and report upon the following matters :— (1) The position of the Bank of New Zealand, the Bank of New Zealand Estates Company (Limited), Auokland Agncultural Company (Limited), and the Colonial Bnnk of New Zealaud, both prior and subsequent to the legislation of 1893, 1894, and 1895, with special reference to aU circumstances leading up to that legislation, the fulness and accuracy of the information then disclosed by the directors, officers, and persons attached to those institutions, and the capacity and fitness of those persons, directors, and officers ; (2) to ascertain what amouuts have been written off, and what led to the same, and to deal with all such other matters as the committee deems necessary or expedient in the premises : provided that the committee shall not be empowered to inquire into the ordinary business of persons or companies doing business with the Bank of New Zealand, excepting so far as to writing off, and what led to such." He s*id the leader of the Opposition could not complain of short notice ia this matter, and, he felt sure there .was a general desire that this matter should be dealt with forthwith. He felt that. unless the House deoided to appoint this committee it would not be' doing its duty to the colony. It had been said they should appoint a Royal Commiaeion to inquire into tho whole matter, but he felt that Parliament itself was the highest tribunal in the laud, and it was only right that Parliament should deal with it. He referred to the cirenmBtaneea leading up to the bank legislation, and said that the committee asked for would aroertain whether the condition of. the Bank of New i Zealand was such that it would have dosed its doors unless the Government had ccme to its assistance. They oould boldany inquiry buoy liked and oould not jeopardise the position of the bank, provided they would not interfere or inquire' into' the private accounts of those who did business with the bank; He said that every member of the Houae^was entitled to the information that would beelicited for the Supremo Court, as Parliament was the highest court in one land. He asked who would take exception as regards the writing off oi\ certain accounts, and he thought they were doing justice to the shareholders of the Bank oE New Zealand if they ascertained who 'were responsible for the present state of things. As the colony had given a large guarantee to the bank, it was, the duty of the House to agree to this inquiry, and it would also strengthen the position of the bank, It would also enable- them to ascertain what the true liabilities of the colony were. The responsibility of controlling the Bank of "New Zealand rested on the Government of the day, as the ba.nk was now a department of the State of New Zealand. He next referred to the position ! of the Estates Company, and said that the House had a right to go into the whole ques- | tion of the relations of that company to the Bank of New Zealand. Regarding the | Colonial Bank, he eaid the House gave its i consent to the purchase of that bank in order to increase the earning power of the Bank of | New Zealand, .and it was desirable to have an inquiry into the position of.that institution and the capacity of its officers. Both officers were willing that such an inquiry should take place, and if it were found that they were not capable and trustwo4hy men steps would be taken 4 to alter the present state of affairs. He hoped the House would agree to the motion.

Captain RUSSELL did not quite'understand the. drift of Mr Seddon's speech, as he had told them that in passing the resolution they would be conserving the credit of the oolony. He had told them nothing new except that Parliament was not able 1 previously to deal with this' question, and they were now to agree to this committee in order to do their work more thoroughly. The Premier had referred to a State Bank,' but there was no State Bank, and if the House agreed to a State Bank the inevitable result would be they would have a greater mess than they were in at present. It appeared to him that the motion was muoh too wide, as it allowed a partisan committee to review the affairs of their opponents for years past. After reviewing the circumstances connected with the bank legislation, he said the motion appeared to him to be an attempt to rake up dead men's boaes ; and if that were the case he (Captain Russell) should refuse to act on it. The private accounts of men who had been dead long ago were to be inquired into by this committee, whioh, he considered, was highly improper and uncalled for. It' was no use to say a motion of this kind would not ba injurious to the bank; and he had been asked repeatedly whether the private acoounts of people doing business with the bank were to be gone into. He held also that it would be impossible to disconnect Ministers from having knowledge of these accounts. There should be some limitation, and he thought there should be some amendment such as that already given notice of. He suggested they should strike out the words " both prior and subsequent to the banking legislation' of 1893, 1894, and 1895," and insert instead, "as the basis of their inquiry between lsb January 1893 and the present date." He referred to the committee moved for by the Premier, and said it contained no less than seven Government supporters, two Opposition members, and one Independent member, and they vere asked to believe that was an impartial committee to inquire into a large question of this kind. For his parb he did not approve of the motion. If an inquiry was necessary by all meanß.have one. As to the Colonial Bank he feared the colony did not make such a godd bargain as it might have done. Let tbem have a proper tribunal presided over by a judge of the Supreme Coutt and two impartial men, and not one whose report would bo absolutely

valueless. He, for one, refused to aofc on this committee.

The Hon. J. M'KENZIE said If the Premier's motion were not agreed to the onus of having no inquiry would be at the door of those who refused it. The Government had nothing to conceal in this matter, and it was necessary there should be the fullest inquiry into the whole matter.— (Mr Duthih t" A Government inquiry: seven to three.") He should adylee his colleague (the Premier) to agree to Mr Hutchison's proposal to have the inquiry open to the press. If the Government were found to have done anything improper in connection with the banking legislation they should be put off the Treasury bcnohes, but the inquiry asked for would explain their connection with it. They should have the best available information as to whether the Bank of New Zealand was managed in the best interests of the people or nob. There was no doubt that they could now get the information with safety which they could not get before, as the position of the bank wa«s now different from what it wan before the Government passed their banking legislation. He referred to the various statements made by the different members of the House on the banking question, and said members had repeatedly stated that the Government had something to hide respecting the Bank of New Zealand. He (Mr M'Kenzie) s&id they had nothing to conceal, and remarked that it had taken two years to find out the position of some of those estates connected with the bank. They had sinoe gained ! a great deal more information. As the result ! of inquiry it was found that the Government had to p«y £205,000 more for the Estates Company than was expected. Members might laugh, but be held that was a proper subject j for an inquiry to be made into, and it was only ! right the colony should know who were responsible for bringing the bank into its present -position. It was not detrimental to the position of the bank to hold such an inquiry. He held that Parliament was the proper tribunal to go into this nutter, and not a Royal Commission. If a Royal Commission were 'set up, the Government would have been at once twitted with putting friends of theirs ' on it. — (Captain Russell : " How about the ' present committee P") If the bank could not stand this inquiry, it was time the House should see that a new order, of things was established. The House should see that no harm could happen to the bank by the inquiry asked for. - » ' Mr BUCHANAN was astonished to hear the speech made by the Minister for Lands when he said if the bank could not stand this inquiry it should go into liquidation. What then became of Mr M'Kenzie's previous utterance, when he stated that an inquiry of this kind would mean ruin to thousands of innocent persons P He (Mr Buohanau) was of opinion this committee would never have been asked for were it not for the decision given at Danedin recently.— (Mr : "Yes.") He thought they would never have heard of it but for the decision he referred to. He held it was absurd to set up a committee to make the' inquiry asked for. It must mean looking iato the private accounts of persons who were dead years ago or who were not now customers of the bank; What purpose, therefore, cuuld such an inquiry be for except one to' whioh he was not now permitted to refer. .'The only j objeot tfie Government .had in view was a I political one, and he appealed to' the House whether it would allow a committee to inquire into this bank for such/ an object. He hoped members- on both sides of the" House would look at the matter from a practical point of view, and not agree to the motion. Sir R. STOUT asked the Government what was to be inquired into. The Minister for Lands had just told them it was to inquire into the conduct of the Government.— (Me M'Kenzie: "That is one thing.") The Government proposed to altsr the Jury/ Act, I and by their own showing they proposed that juries should sit; on an inquiry to try themselves. Were they to inquire into the conduct of dead men who could not possibly defend themselves P Had Parliament sunk to that, that they were to try dead' men, and that the Government could only defend themselves from any charge by looking at what was done 10 years ago. That was a very brave thing to do — to pry into the affairs of dead men.— (Mr M'Kenzib : " There are some of them very muoh alive.") Well, he | (Sir R. Stout) would like to know who they were. The inquiry asked for was the very thing Jihat would ruin the bank, and if the Government wanted to wreck the bank the Premier's "motion was the 'very thing | to do that. He (Sir R. Stout) thought there should be an inquiry on the lines laid down by the member for Ricoarton, but no member of tho Government should be on that inquiry. They should not sit on judgment on their own conduct. He held that if anything more tbau another proved the incompatibility j of a State bank with our present state of politios it was the motiou moved by the Premier. He asked the House not to -sanction this proposal of the Government to shield themselves from their own act : on in the manner now proposed, Mr MONTGOMERY said nearly all members were agreed there should be some inquiry. For his own part he had no doubt they had hitherto legislated with very little knowledge, of what .they were doing. As to the tribunal they should agree on, he had at one time favoured a Royal Commission, but after coasidering all the circumstances, he thought it would not bo to the interests of the people conoerned, and therefore a parliamentary committee was, he thought, the best one to adopt. It should, however, be free from party bias, and he agreed with Sir R. Stout that no member of the Government should be on it. He felt, however, that without some member of the Ministry being on the committee the inquiry might be abortive, but he thought there should be only one member of .the Ministry on it, and the members of the committee should be chosen by the House. If they were going to make an inquiry into the bank* affairs, they should take .care that private namss and private accounts should not be disoloqed, except where it was absolutely necessary. Mr DUTHIB said the colony naturally took a deep interest in the welfare of the Bank of New Zealand, as we were one w*y or another committed to five millions of money. They had no right now to put the directors of the bank on their trial. He believed them good business men, and they should receive support from the House in their endeavour to puirthe bank through. He saw no reason wby the private accounts of the people should be gone into, and this search was only wanted for political purposes by Ministers, who wanted to stir up mud previous to going to the country. It was no inquiry to grant a partisan committee such as that aiked for by the Premier, and no one would have any faith in an inquiry of that kind. He asserted that Mr Seddon had deliberately deceived Parliament over this matter, and in consequence the Premier was on hiß trial. It was a force to mppose that the real connection of the late Colonial Treasurer with the banking legislation could be properly inquired into with such a partisan committee as that asked for by the Premier,

The Hon. W. HALL-JONES was astonished and grieved at the tone the debate had taken.

The Government did not want to have anything cloaked up l it was Mr Duthie and his friends who wanted to cloak- matters up. The Govern* ment were afraid of nothing. They wijshed the whole proceedings open to the press, 'and did nob want to hide anything. He expressed great disappointment at the oourse adopted by Sir R. Stoat over this motion. Be felt that the members of this committee would be on their honour, and would take no unfair ad*' vantage of their position. It was not desirable to inquire into the private accounts of anybody except to ascertain who were responsible for the present position. They were told by Sir R. Stout that the Government were on their trial, but they were not afraid and did not want any hole-and«oorner * Work, The Opposition also would have to take the responsibility in the House and country. He (Mr Hall-Jones) wanted an inquiry before, and he should vote for it now. There was no suoh question now as the bank oloaing its doors. An inquiry could be made calmly, whioh could not be done before.

Dr NEWMAN said that a difference existed between the Hon. Mr Hall-Jones and the member for Timaru of last session. The Government were packing the jury that were to try themselves. Why, it was well known that thi Government had taken care that every member of the committee was favourable to the banking legislation. Was there ever suoh a packed jury at the Premier proposed? Last year they had a committee to consider the seieute of the sinking fund, and who whitewashed, the Premier? Wby, three Ministers, and they found three Ministers on the present; committee— two in the House and one ' in the ' Council. • Why did the Premier not have this inquiry two v years ago when the Opposition asked for it P They wanted to kaow why Mr Watson and the junior offioer of a tottering bank were put in positions of suoh importance -in the Bank of Near Zealand. There were many other things they wanted to know. He (Or Newman) would like to see one or two men on this committee who were against the banking legislation from the first. Were there no other Liberals whose aooounts were written off besides the late Colonial Treasurer's ? ' He saw no good in the proposed committee, and said the Premier would enter the oommittee room and take charge of the lot. What possible chance was there of 'a proper verdiot from a packed jury of this kind P The whole thing was a complete farce. Mr G. W. RUSSELL moved as an amendment—"That all the words after the word 'matters? down to the word 'same' be omitted, with the view of inserting the following :— ' (1) Immediate circumstances lending to the two million guarantee to the Bank of New Zealand in- 1894, and especially as to the information upon 'which the Government urged Parliament to give that guarantee; (2) all matters relating to the appointment of Mr W. Watson as president and of Mr H. Mackenzie as general manager of the Bank of New Zealand ; (3) all matters relating to the proposed amalgamation in 1894 of the Colonial Bank with the Bank of New Zealand and the purchase of the Colonial Bank in 1895, and especially as to the correctness of the balance sheet of the Colonial Bank, the amount paid to that bank as goodwill and the basis upon whioh such - alleged goodwill was assessed ; (4) and to deal with all saoh other matters at the- committee deem necessary or expedient in the premises." He said the amendment traversed to a large extent tho motion proposed by the Premier. It was the desiro ot all seotrons of the House "that an inquiry should be- instituted,. and. the statement made that any 'section of the House desired to burke inquiry was absolutely without foundation. He* held that the Premier's motion would give the right to inquire into private accounts for many years pat, and also into current accounts. That would absolutely destroy all confidence in the 1 Bank of New Zealand, and would be a serious matter, for the colony, whioh had guaranteed the bank to suoh a large extent. He said the Government were responsible for the whole position' they were in at present . over the bank. The House demanded an inquiry . not into what took place years ago, bat as to what led up to the recent legislation. He asked Mr Hall-Jones, the present Minister for Public Works, to remember what he laid last year when he characterised the banking legislation as iniquitous, and he asked the Minister foi Works whether he would go back now on th< position be then took up. * Mr COLLINS seconded the amendment. He had supported for two sessions in the main the banking legislation, and he did not regret his aotitn ; what he did regret wag that the House had not yet had suoh full information on the whale matter as they were entitled to. He held it was a disgrace to appoint a man to the presidency of the Bank of New Zealand who w»s concerned in the preparation of a false balance sheet, of which they bad recently heard so muoh. They were rfl surprised at the speech of Mr H«u« Jones, who accused Sir R. Stout of' drawing a red herring across the scent; bub it was "amusing to he»r that hon. gentleman talk in that strain after the speeoh he made last year when member for Timaru on the subjeot now before tho House. He asserted that an inquiry should be made into the whole matter. The Minister for Public Works all through the banking legislation was opposed to the Governmeut, but he^ now supported their proposals. He (Mr Collins)* •believed the Government proposals would seriously damage the Bank of Naw Zealand. Mr Hall-Jones was certainly consistent in that respect, for he was an onemy of the bank last 'session, and he was also its enemy now in sup-, porting the Premier's motion. The Hon. Mr SEDDON said he was willing that the names of the proposed committee should be left till later on. He was surprised to hear suoh opposition to his motion, as he had taken from it the power to inquire into the private accounts of individuals. — (Sevebalt Membebs: "No.") He held there should be fall inquiry into the whole of the bank matters, but Mr Russell's amendment proposed to put the blame on the officers of the bank and allow those who were responsible to escape. He held that in the faoe of the information recently gained by the Government it justified the fullest inquiry. He defended the directors of the Bank of New Zealand as being men of honour, and yet they were attacked by the member for Riccarton in a most unworthy manner. Why should these men be condemned on the floor of ,the House without having an inquiry. They were told there were SBven Government supporters on the committee against three Oppositionists, but he had selected men whom he believed would be acceptable to the House. He wanted no packed committee, but one which would command confidence and respeot. Would the House respect a committee .which included Mr DuthieP He thought not, as that hon. gentleman was too muoh of a partisan to do justice to the late Colonial Treasurer. What tljey were doing now would strengthen the bank, and not weaken it, as was alleged. He pointed out that the reason why two members of the Ministry were on the committee was because it was im« possible for him to attend every sitting ©mag

to his being on tho Public Accounts Committee, and it was uecesstry fora Minister to be present to guide the procesdiuga. If they struck the name of the Minister for Lands off the committee they would do Mr M'Kenzie on injustice, and would do no good to themselvee. He detended the late Colonial Treasurer, and said he knew nothing about the accounts iv the " A," '.B." end -**C" lists. He gave, a complete denial to Mr Duthie'a stobement in that respeob. Sir R. STOUT resented the imputation cast on him by Mr H*ll- Jones that he had been connected with a company that had a certain sum written off by the Bank of New Zealand. He gave a most explicit denial to that statement, and told tbe Minister for Public Works be had never directly or indirectly been connected with that bat,k in any way. Mr G. HUTCHISON was in favour of an inquiry, but he could understand nothing worte th&n the conduct ot the Government to go into the accounts referred to in the Premier's motion. He held that no member of the previous committee should be on the present committee, ond tu»t applied to both sides of the House. He also hoped that the Committee set up by tbe House would act by itself, as they had nobbing to do with the committee of the other Chamber. They were told the committee would do the bank no harm. It would do it harm, but that waa only another instance of tbe vicJouß conduct of the Government. He should not debate tbe question now, but would merely say be was in favour of an inquiry into tbe whole nutcer. 'The Hon. J- M'KENZIE denied that he said the Government wes on its trial over this matter. He challenged Mr Hutcbiscn to briug one single charge against the Government in connection with it. He had no wish to be on tbe committea *t all, but it was necessary that two members of the Government should be on the committee. If tho House decided that only od«l Minister thi-uld bo on it he should not, of course, sit on the committee. Cerbain charges h»d been made against the officers of the bank, and surely they had a right to some inquiry being held into these charges. >Mr R. THOMPSON regretted the attempt K.iuch was being made to raise a party spirit in connection with the matter. He had looked on tbe purchase of the. Colonial Bank last session m a job, at>d he thought no one who voted for it would cow deny ib was a job. Tbe speeches of the Premier and of the late Colonial Treasurer were those of advocates of tbe Colonial Back, not of Ministers of the Crown. Ministers were deceived themselves and they deceived the Bouse, and he could not understand how they were so easily " had " by the directors of tbe Colonial Bai,k. . Tbe Hon. W. J. STEWARD had never felt a greater feeling, of responsibility during the whole time he had .been in the House than at preeenl-, aud he bad great anxiety respecting the banking legislation. He had never ceased to regret bis vote on tbe banking legislation. Ho was .convinced an iiquiry was necessary into tbe whole matter. .Me LANG thought.this inquiry should have beea made two years ago, but it was necessary now that there sbonld be tbe fullest inquiry, ' nnd the be«t way to make that would be by a Roya] commission. , ■Mr BUDPO supported the motion. • Messrs , Buchanan, Bell, and.iTauner spoko igaiafit it- . . . : ' • .The! Hon. E. MIICHELSON supported the motion for an inquiry so far a$ bis own private affftira were .concerned. He bad nothing v to. f e»r, and nothing .to-be .ashamed of; He did Dot, however, think the. Premier's "committee v*s an impartial one. - _ • r ,-, Mr W. KEtiLY moved nhe adjournment of the debate. The Hon? Mr SEDDON eid not object to tbe Adjournment m several other members wanted to speak on the question. Tbe motion for the adjournment, was carried by 32 to 28, and, the House rose at 1:15 a.m. THE SA^ FRANCISCO STEAMERS. Sir R. Stout aaked theP«nv'er the question tending in hit name in regard to thebellicoee sUtc meats alleged to have beau, made by Mr John D. Bprecsels end published in the San Fxanc'uco sewspapors in regard to the use of the steamships Alameda and Mariposa in tbe event of war between the United Kingdom and the United States of America. Sir Robert said the statement was to the effect that these ships would, in the event of war, t© used as armed cruisers of tbe Alabama type to harass the traders of the colonies. Mr Seddou .Baid bis attention had been called to the matter, and be read a cable from the Government agent in San Francisco which went to show that the pub1 lithed accounts were mere irresponsible newspaper statements that were net worth denying. Evidently, be said, the newspapers there were very much like what they were in some parts of New Zealand. For bis own pub, if be were satisfied that such statements were made, he wonld net hesitate one moment to determine tbe contract. Sir Robert; said he ,had letters from most responsible persons, which went fca, Bhow that' there wa* no doubt^Me Spreckeh made the statement. Tbe Premier replied tb«b if Sir Robert would ltt him have the letters be would make furtter inquiries. Sir Robert, in view cf some recent events, rather scored in his reply, which was that be was sob, in the habit of banding over private letters to. ether people.

THE TESTIMONIAL TO MR WARD.

Replying to Mr Buchanan, the Premier' admitted that p. subscription list is going round ia tbe Post Office for a testimonial to Mr Ward. The Premier further stated that he fully appreciated what the officers of that department were doing, and he scarcely thought there w«s anyone wJio would question fiie propriety of their doing so, a statement that was received with cries of " Oh, eh ! " '

THE ADDRESS FROM THE THRONE.

Sir Robert Stou^ in hjs remarks on the Address-in- Rep! y, made merry ab the expense of Ministers. A f ew extracts from his speech are worth regiving. Sir Robert said of this verbose, illogical, and ungrammatioal compilation : " It cannot have been written by any person who w*s educated at any rate in the modern (rays of speaking or writing C<he English language, < md that may be tbe reason why the two older members were ohoien to bee if they oould understand the English in which it is written. It certainly is nob modern English. Whether it is ancient English I do not know. I certainly know of no English author who writes in the style in which tbe Speech was prepared. Let me give tn illustration of this wonderful Speech. I will note, for example, this : 'I am pleased to inform you,' says the Speech, *tbat the-long-otanding and much-vexed question in connection with tbe Wnirarapa Lake has been satisfactorily fettled, and has been the cause of much rejoicing.' That is, that the longstanding and muoh-vexed question has besn the cause ' of much rejoicing. It it truly most peculiar Engliin. I do not 'think it can mean that. Then, 'Mr Hall-Joues has been called to tbe Ministry, with the office of Minister for Fublio Works/ Now, 'called to the mieistry' ia a theological term, and any person seeing that would assume that the hon. member has become * ' reverend,' That is the only meaning of the phrase." An bon. member 1

" Effectual calling." Sir R. Stout • "No, my honourable friend is rather oub in his theology. ■ ' Effectual calling ' ib nob confined to the clergy. He has been called to the office of Minister for Public Works. Still I do hope the hon. member will not require us t3 address him as •The Revertivi' inFtead of 'Honourable' on any nit'ire occ^ir.n. Then we come to the uext, ihiiig, which certainly is still more surprising. It says thab • tbe Hon. W. O. Walker and the Hon. T. Thompsou have been appointed membfrfl of the Executive, and to facilitate public affairs they and tbe Hon. J. Carroll have been alloted portfolios without salary/ How ihe administration of public affairs could bo facilitated by giving them no sahry 13 certainly a mystery. Bub, sir, the thing gets more interesting as you go along. Now we come to this: 'The temporary depression which prevailed Eomo two years ago is fast passing away without any far -_renchirf£ effects.' Well, then, a temporary thing lasted apparently for two years. Tbe xnxh thmg that comes is about the Chinese, and perhaps ib is the most complicated paragraph of all. Let hon. membeis listen to tbi* very peculiar language : ' Tha prevention of undesirable persons coming to New Zealand, especially the Chinese, is of great importance as affecting the well-being and purity of cur race and as unduly disturbing our trade and industries,' to that the prevention of the Chinese coming to New Zealand unduly disturbs our trade and industries). I understand tbe Government to mean the ODpcsite of that, but that is what they say."

A WHARF AT TAUTUKU.

Messrs T. Mackenz'e, J. W. Kelly, and R. M'Nab interviewed the Minister for Landß this morning with regard to the erection of a wharf at Tautuku beyond Catlins. Tautuku is an old whaling . etatioD, and there are now about 100 settlers in the vicinity. Mr Mackenzie, in introducing the deputation, .pointed oub that there were enormous quantities of timber in that locality which would find an outlet if a wharf were erected. Reference was alto made to tbe necessity of grading a tramway from Tantuku to Taubakapu. Mr Kelly further pointed out that the works referred to would give employment to % number of men who in a 'little time would be able to do without Government assistance altogether. The Minister eaid ho would geb a report from Mr M'Curdy, tbe district surveyor, who was a reliable man.

/" JOTTINGS.

Mr T. Mackenzie was^ to-day elected chairman of the Local Bills Committee. Ib answer to Mr Meredith, who drew attention to the startling fact that there are 40,000 more males than females in the colony, and wished to know if the Government wt.uld take steps, by immigration or otherwise, with the view of bringing about an equalisation of the proportions ot the acres of the colony, the Premier said he presumed the question was asked with view to getting a substantial tax on bachelors. (Laughter.) The matter would receive tbe serious consideration of the Government. — (More laughter.) The amount expended on technical education in the colony last year was £948, of which Auckland received £100, Duaedin £250, Wellington £200, Wanganui £200, and-Christ-church'£lso, - „ , • ' The Public- Trustee acknowledges the receipt of £18,746 48s 3d to dats froml the .-various centres for the Brunner relief fund., There is ° yet a considerable sum to rekch the trustee's ' hands, including the Wellington' district con- : ' tribntiohs.' Tha whole amount of the fund will ' bd about £25,000. ' ' ■ This is the third- occasion upon which theLegislative Council h»s rejected the repeal of tho CD. Act Bill. The ex-Colonial Treasurer is nob expected back iv Wellington before 10 days or a fortnight. -The Hon. Mr Carroll has been confined to bin bed Sot three days by a severe cold. Mr Collin* wants a change in parliamentary practice so that Minieters in charge of bills may have an opportunity of speaking to and explaining their provision* in both Houses. Mr L&rnach wishes <he Government to get information regarding ihe system of light railways suoh as are uted in Wales and parts of India. Mr Flatman is to ask the Premier if he will inform the House how many station managers in the Assets Company are farming lands of their own, and does he consider it right for them to hold suoh a dual position.