CHARITABLE AID BOARD.

Otago Witness, Issue 2207, 18 June 1896, Page 11

CHARITABLE AID BOARD.

A special meeting of this board was held on the morning of the 10th in connection with the decision of the Benevolent Trustees to take action in the Supreme Court calling upon the board to pay the amount requisitioned for by the trustees for the current year. There were present— Messrs ;; Robin (chairman), Gourley, Snow, Bftzlett, Mitchell, Hardy, BT'Gtre^or, and Solomon.

The Chairman stated that he, with some other members of the board, thought it would be better to call i special meeting to again consider the matter before the trustees entered an action in the Supreme Court. He would be pleased to hear anything that any member of the board might have to say. He thought the position the board had taken up was perfectly justified. After consulting one or two members of the board he had written to Mr Chisholm (chairman of the trustees) as follows i—

I notice by the newspaper reports that the trustees are about to move the Supreme Court re the action of the Charitable Aid Board in the matter of their yearly estimate. A meeting of the board has been called for Wednesday, the 10th inst., at 11 a.m., when they will be asked to reconsider their resolution, and as the process of law is slow, uncertain, and costly, and, as in this cut the costs of both boards will have to be borne by the same parties, perhaps you will be good enough to delay taking any action until your next meeting. By so doing I trust you will not in any way be compromised. Understanding that you have a tabulated return of the cost per head of those receiving outdoor, relief in a very forward state, would you kindly let me have one extending over a period of, cay, five years, so that it may be laid before the board at their next meeting? Mr Chisholm had replied in these terms :— I am in receipt of your letter of yesterday's date, intimating the fact that you have called a Meeting of your board for Wednesday first, at 11 a.m., for the purpose of reconsidering your resolution re the estimates submitted by the Benevolent Institution Trustees, and asking me to delay taking any action towards giving effect to the unanimous decision of the trustees at their last meeting until after your meeting. In reply, I feel confident the trustees will approve of my at once acceding to your most reasonable request, as their desire undoubtedly is I to afford your board every opportunity of relieving them from the necessity of any action in the direction oontsmplated. : Complying with your" request, I have also pleasure in handing you herewith tabulated return of the numbers and cost par head of those receiving outdoor relief for the past five years, from which you will see that there is little or no justification for the statement made at your meeting that the increase in expenditure was due to the allowances grafted in outdoor relief cases being much in excess of what was granted some years ago. You will notice that the slight increase in any one year is explained by a more than corresponding increase in the number of men and women 'as compared with children. You will pardon me if I further point out that our estimate for the year is not so much in excess of the amount we received from the Charitable Aid Board last year as some of your board teem to think, nor is our estimate unreasonable when you consider the amount required last year. Our requirements last year, with the object of meeting the views of yourself and several members of your board, were at the beginning of the year estimated at £10,600. - In addition to this amount, we received during the year from your board £284 8s 8d ; balance from previous year, £139 17s 34 ; balance from relief account fund, £112 6s lid ; from bank as overdraft, £218. These sums together wake a total of £11,254 12s lOd. When your board further considers that during last year the Unemployed Relief Association relieved the trustees of a number of cases that were receiving outdoor relief, who have, since the stoppage -of those works, become a charge upon their funds, and; that during the first four months of this year, as compared with the corresponding months last year, there is an increase in the number of cases on an average of 27 men, 16 women, and 65 children per week, at an extra cost of £14 12s 3d, you will see that if things continue as they are without any increast the trustees' estimate Trill be over £200 short of meetirig'their requirements. That being so, the trustees will require to take every care to keep their expenditure for the year within their estimate. I cannot conclude without expressing the sincere hope that your board, having frequently expressed their appreciation of the careful administration of the trustees, will approve of their estimate, when I venture to think, after the clear expression of opinion from your board, the trustees will continue to exercise the greatest care in granting outdoor relief only to casts of real destitution, and in such allowances as will meet with the entire approval of four foafca,

J.The return forwarded with Mr Chisholm's ter showed that in 1891 1591 persons received relief at a cost of Is lOd per head per week ; in 1892, 1393 at Is 9d ; in 1893, 13+1 at Is 9|d j in 189*, I*o* at Is 9*d ; m 1895, 1409 at Is ll£d.] ■ He (Mr Robin) then wrote to Mr Chisholm asking for the following information t— •« What plaoes has your inspector visited within the last 12 months ia which there are persons receiving outdoor relief ? If then are any places which he has not visited ? On whose recommendation do you grant and continue to give outdeor relief P " Mr Chisholm replied t

I h»ve to inform you that our inspection of outdoor relief cases for the past 12 months has been confined to Dunadin And suburbs as far aa and including Fort Chalmers to the aorta and Henley to the south. Outside of this area we have to a very Kxeat extent been influenced by the recommendation of the local bodies in- the allowance granted during that term.

Mr Snow said that this action had been taken ai the result of his motion — viz., that the •am voted to the trustees be £10,500. He looked upon this board as a useless body. If the trustees could demand a certain sum from them and they had to raise the 'money, then their occupation waa gone. If they had no control over the rates they had to levy they had better stop at home. He was not finding fault with the trustee! in the administration of relief, but at the same time the rate was so heavy on ths country districts that they must pnll up. Hia object was to force the Government to adopt some other plan. Mr Hardy said that the position he took np was this: Fintly, he contended th&teoonomy could be, and shoald be, exercised in the management of the institution ; secondly, with reference to outdoor relief, it would require to be looked into with the greatest possible care. The institution 'seemed, to encourage and make paupers. There would not be anything like the present number of deserted wives if their husbands did not say to them i "You can go to the institution; they will keep you there." The City Corporation, which he represented, could sot afford to go on at this rate. They were not paying their own way, and n was not a nice thing to ask them to give money which they did not possess. The corporation wanted money for their roads, and instead of spending it on the roads it had to be spent on charitable aid. The sum was increasing, and would continue to do so, do what they liked. It would require putting down, and if the board were to have no say he would resign, because he did not believe in being a " dummy." His corporation thought that this board was a sorb of review board. He supposed that if the Benevolent Trustees asked them for £20,000 they would have to give them that too. Mr Swow.j Yes, according to law. Mr Hazlbtt : I have not the slightest doubt the Colonial Secretary will bear us out. Mr Solomon asked what had been the yearly demand since the commencement of the act, and how had it increased, and to what extent P The Chairman said that he had all the documents on the matter at the last annual meeting. It had increased from the sum of £8000 for the first full year until this year it was £11,500. He (the speaker) entirely agreed with all that Mr Show had said. He thought that £10,500 would be «n ample sum for the requirements of this district. There were two or three reasons why the expenditure was a Uthle more. First of all the trustees took, over the lying-in department from the hospital, and that had added to the expense.

Mr Solomon t That was many years ago. The Chaihma.n, continuing, said that instead of keeping the- children in the institution they had boarded them ont, and that had cost more per head than it wonld have had they been kept in the institution. Then, again, the demand for space had increased so muohjihat they had been obliged to build two or three wings to the institution. They had taken that out of their investments, and consequently they had less money to fall back on. Those were .the three reasons why the demands had increased. He di<Lnofc think that any great care was exercised in giving outdoor relief in the country districts. The trustees should not leave it to any district body to say it should receive charitable aid. It was said to him in almost every country district he visited: "Oases' are increasing very much indeed. We pay a good deal of it and have a right to get back what we pay." The trustees had given aid in cas«B outside of the town entirely against the opinion and report of their own inspector. He questioned whether that would be enough to justify them in expressing their dissatisfaction with the administration of the affairs. What reasons can you give in support of your appeal ? He could not see how the board could succeed in going before the Colonial Secretary, for he believed that they wonld miserably fail. Therefore he would move— "That the board resoin.d their resolution of last meeting and vote the trustees the sum asked for, viz., £11,500." He believed that the manner in which they had dealt with this question would make the trustees more -careful in the future than they had been in -the past. He would willingly support Mr Snow's last motion if he could see any possible- chance of succeeding before the'' Colonial Secretary.- . Mr Goubley seconded the motion, 'because he could not see how the trustees could do with less money than they had applied for. So far as local bodies were concerned it was usual for the trustees, on the application of cases from many of the oountry districts, to refer them to the county council for a report. The county councils send in their report, and the trustees invariably adopted their suggestions. They might recommend 5i or 6i— whatever the case might be—and the trustees would pay that num.

A Membbb t Why p MrGoußtETi Because the trustees think that people living in the immediate neighbourhood would understand the caoes better thin those who are, not near to them. lam quite satisfied if this matter goes before the Supreme Ctmrfc that the board will have to pay the money. I hope the board will see their way to grant the money without going to the Supreme Court, which I think would be unpleasant for all parties concerned. I hope it will not go that length.

Mr Snow took exception to the remarks made by the chairman regarding local bodies. He could atsure them that all the cases that went before the council he represented were known to the members of that body, and they would recommend a certain sum, and it was granted. If the inspector visited his district any day in the week he would find that that was the case, so that he (Mr Snow) did not think the chairman's remarks applied to his district. Mr Solomon said he thought that the statements made by the chairman were by no means correct— that the relief given to persons residing in districts was beyond what it should be, because each country district was anxious to get as much as it could oat of the Charitable Aid Board. He (the speaker) thought that that was somewhat unjust to country bodies. The amounts granted to country applicants -for relief was sot more than the cum given to town applicants, If an old man or woman incapable «t doing *ay wQtk applied JwcsulwjE to towi thf

maximum allowance made ta them, tolar as£& (the speaker's) memory served him, was 6s a week, and he thought that the same allowance was granted in nearly every oase of old, broken* down miners, swaggers, and shearers. Of course, every woman left with a large family was somewhat poorer in town, and for that reason the allowance had to be a trifle higher. It should be remembered that this institution had control of charitable aid from the Mataura river almost to the Waitaki, and he (Mr Solomon) asked how could an inspector or inspectors be continually travelling over that large area. They had applications from. Cromwell, and what better could the trustees do than consult the county council there. As to consulting local bodies, he did not think that they could do better. They did not always act on the county, council's advice. Mr Hardy had said he thought that outdoor relief wanted lookiog into. Did he (Mr Solomon) understand that Mr Hardy was of opinion that it was not being striotly looked into P He did not think that that was fair to the trustees. He did not wish to offer any objection to the resolution.

Mr Gourley said that two years ago the trustees sent their inspector round the country, and from the report made by him at the tima it was clear that the trustees were paying a much larger sum than the inspector thought they should pay. The trustees had the reports of the county counoils before them, and what could they do ? Id many instances they paid larger sums than tbeir inspector recommended, because the county council said theyrecdmmended so much. That was about the correct way of putting it.' - Mr Solomon : That is right. Mr Snow: Can you name the county council it occurred in ? - ' Mr Goubley : I don't think so, but I can get you the name.

■ Mr M'Gbeqob did not see the use of sending an inspector «>und if they did not adopt his recommendation.

The Chaiuman said that everybody who took an interest in charitable aid knew that in many oases the trustees gave way to ,the outside reports as against the direct- reports of their inspector and the. police. The motion was lost, the chairman and Mr Geurley being the 'only member* to vote in favour of it. ■

Mr Habdt then moved— •« That a statement be prepared and sent to the Colonial Secretary protesting against the reqnisitioa of the trustees as excessive, and asking him to proceed in accordance with the act ; the chairman to be requested to take the necessary steps and to send » copy of this resolution to the Benevolent Institution Trustees." Mr Gouhley : It will cost you about £500. The motion was carried, and the meeting then adjourned.