TUESDAY, AUGUST 8.

Otago Witness, Issue 2059, 10 August 1893, Page 20

TUESDAY, AUGUST 8.

In the Legislative Council to - day the select committee to whom it was ■ referred recommended that the Otago Harbour Board Empowering Bill be allowed to proceed with amendments.- The question of forest reserves was discussed. The Public Domains Bill escaped rejection by the casting vote of the Speaker. STATE FORESTS. - i The Hqd. Mr BOWEN moved-*" That &

description of land proposed to be withdrawn from the State forests Otago and Wellington 1 provinces having been laid on the table of this - Council on the 12th July last, in pursuance o£ section 2 of 'The New Zealand State Forests Act Amendment Act 1888/ this Council objects ~ to these lands-being so withdrawn:"' The hon. gentleman m moving the motion said he hoped the Council would go a little, further than he had indicated ■ and repeal the aot, with a - view to secure the public forests and prevent ' the wilful waste of timber which was going on, and which had gone on for so many yearspast, especially where vested' interests -were concerned. Early this season he found that three slices had been taken out of forest* reserves. 1 Oneof these slices cdnsisted of. 1700 acres in Otago, and the other comprised 1000 acres in ' Wellington province. : He did not .believe the Government were altogether to blame' in the alienation of .these reserves, as he thought the alienations were a departmental matter,' but he - hoped the Government would take steps to > prevent our rapidly decreasing forests from ' being altogether denuded. - * , ' - The Hon. Dr POLLEN cordially seconded the motion. ••« r•' ' ■ -' -';• ~ The Hon. Sir P.. BUCKLEY, replying, said he was glad to see themotion of his hon. friend" had assumed a national aspect; S6,far as the ' motion affected Otago, he asked.that it might ! ' be adjourned to a future day, by which time he hoped to be in a position to obtain full par- * ticulars from the Lands department with regard ! to the ' motion. So far as.it related to certain forest land withdrawn from State forestcfin'the Wellington land district, his .explanation" was < very simple. ■ A map on the table showed that a certain portion of the State forest reserves at ' Palmerston North had been granted for special . settlement purposes. Subsequent /to this? the Palmerston North Borough Council found that' the land referred to was required by them' for the conservation of water for the supply of the - town of Palmerston. ■ • - - ■ :-\ ' J ' The ddbate, on the motion of the Hon.' Mr ■ M'LEAN, was adjourned; ' - ' v

In the House of Representatives, the Oamaru . Loans Consolidation" Bill was ;passed. It was v ' decided that, the , House should meet, on Monday evenings, commencing with 'the 21st, inst.,< and .that Government business ..should have precedence on Wednesdays. The Electoral - Bill was again considered ' in Committee, and ' passed through before the House rose this 1 \ tnorning. It is to come on- for tbe third reading on Friday. The woman's franchise has so far nassed safely, and being in a^gallant mood the House extended the privilege to Maori women. . . ' ' , BEPLIES TO QUESTIONS.'- , (Replying to Mr JEthodes (on behalf of the member for Waimate), ' <" - The Hob. Mr SEDDON said the electoral rolls for the respective districts and registration . forms would be procurable at post "offices; but the Government did not think it necessary to go to the expense of advertising to that effect. Replying to Mr Wright, whether the Minister for Education will during the current half-year allow payments of salary tifSe made upon the working average, instead' of the strict average, owing to the loss of salary falling on teachers in the a State schools through the measles epidemic, .' 1 - -' The Hon. W. P. REEVES said he had been making inquiries in this direction, and it would be about 14 days before the necessary.infprma- , turn could be obtained. As soon as it wasreceived he would be able to state what course 4. would be taken on it. . •;..',," . Replying to Mr Meredith, whether the Minister for*. Education will include in' the Education estimates for the current year, a sumto be offered by the various Education .Boards as prizes to boys attending. our State schools , for proficiency in elementary military drill, ' - The Hon Mr. REEVES said a v good.deal more money would be devoted to educational purposes this year than last year;, and he did not feel justified in asking the House to make a new departure in this respect by voting' money for prizes which, if given at all, should be given by the Education Boards. s \ Replying to Mr. T/Thompson, : *- The Hon. Mr SEDDON. said t it would be a dangerous experiment if an. expert .like Mr S. -<- Vaile were heard at the bar of the, 1 House ia' ' support' of his scheme of railway 'management, u - and the Government did' not therefore feel v, warranted in acceding '.to,' the _. request^ of " certain petitions to'the Hotise'on ,th"isjsubj*ec6; Replying to. the Hon. G. F. Richardson, \ ■ The Hon; Mr SEDDON said the least amount represented By outstanding Treasury hills since the present,. Government' took 'office, was ■ £699;000. * • „ ' , V THE ELECTORAL Bltti ' .^ _-. . The Electoral Bill was further Considered in ; Committee. ' ~ . ■ »" ;: . Clause 110, counting votes, elicited a lengthy • discussion. The provision' that . where tt .shall appear to any deputy-returning officer, that leßs , > than 50 votes h»,ve been polled, he J shall not- : open the ballot box, but' forward it to' tbe , . returning officer, ,was strongly, opposed by several members on the' ground that .there was no reason for .the, change proposed. '> • \ \ Mr R... THOMPSON moved to strike out portion of the clause relating to this provision, after further discussion, Mr Thompson's amendment was carried, and the, clause as amended , was agreed to - * ' , The following is. the division list on the retention of subsection 2 of clause 110 :— ' Ayes (13).— Messrs Earnshaw, Hall- Jo'hes, Hogg, ■ 'Hutchison, J: M'Kenzie,- Meredith, Sandford, Saunders, Seddon, W. O. Smith, Steward, Stout, -Tanner.: . , . ■ - ' Nobs (38).— Messrs Allen, Blake, Buchanan, . Buckland, Carncross, Dtithie, Fish, Fisher, "Fraser,' . Hamlin. Harkness, Houston, -G. Mitch el sob, Kapa, w. Kblly, Lake, Scobie 'Mackenzie, T. Mackenzie, Mackintosh', M'Lean, C. H. Mills, J. ' Mills, Moore. Newman, Palmer, Parata,' Rhodes, ' Rolleston. Shera, E. M. Smith, '' Swan, Taipua, Tavlor, R. Thompson, ,T. Thompson, valentine, «$ Wilson/Wright. P^irs.— For tEe retention of the subsection : Messrs Pinkerton. Joyce, Buick, Ward. Against: ' Messrs Lawry, Hal), Russell, and Bruce. Clause 145, Maori representation; Mr SH BRA. moved that , the. defining .word " % 11 male " be struck out.' ' ' ■ - '. - ' . Mr FISH could not see how those members who had voted for the extension of the franchise to European women should refuse it to Maori women. He should 'certainly ' vote for Mr Shera's amendment. Sir R. STOUT congratulated Mr Fish -on having been convinced by the arguments he had heard in favour of woman's suffrage. - Mr FISH said he had not altered his opinions ! in any way as to woman's franchise, and ho should later on propose an amendment which" would express the views he had always had on that point. Mr TAIPUA- felt grateful to those members who supported' giving the franchise to Maori - ' women. He also complimented Mr Fish on' his change of opinionj'and he thought, it would ' make him extremely popular with the : ladies. . ." Mr KAPA supported Mr Shera's amendment - very heartily, and he was glad to see the House so unanimous' on this* subject, ' "■ •"'■' Mr J. MILLS hoped^they would not accept? ., the amendment. He was one of'those/•who'strongly supported - women's - franchise, b'ufc s thought they, fljotfld, not' *» y>b estehd/ T thV

experiment to Maori women, as they were not sufficiently educated for ib. Mr PARATA supported the amendment, and did not agree with Me Mills when he said Maori women were not educated. sufficiently to exerciae the franchise. The Hoel Mr SEDDON said he had been informed there was a serious difficulty; in getting Maprii women on the roll, and they were also told Maori women did not want it. After the assurance they had just had from Native members, however, he shouldLnot oppose the amendment. , -^ ' . • . Mr Shera's amendment was carried on the voices. ' ■ ■ , . ' l , Clause 148, qualification of Maori members. ' Mr SHERA. moved that only male eleotors Bhould.be qualified to be members of the House \ for Maori electoral^ districts.— Agreed to by 3* Clause 154, candidates may have free use of public schoolrooms, &c. for election meetings, j Mr BUCKLAND moved that .this Clause be struck out'.— li6sb by 33 to 15. "" The remaining claraes passed without alteraA* Dew platfse, which stood in Sir J. Hall's name, was moved to the effect- I ' That every publichouse within two miles of a polling booth should be closed on polling days under a penalty of forfeiting the license." A lengthy discussion ensued. . The Hon. Mr S,EDDON wanted to know why the clause should not be mote general, and why publichouses within two miles were specified ? j The clanse'was lost by 31 to 13. The following is the division list :— Ayes (13)AM^srs Aller., Earnshaw, Hall, Jones, Harkqess, Jbycp, Taipua, J. Kelly, MereCarroll, Dawpon, Duncan, Duthie, Fish.Fraser, Houston, G. Hutchison, Lake, Mackintosh, JMackenzie. C. H. Mills, J. Mills, Mitcbels.on, Moore. O'Conor, Parata, Rhodes, Richardson, Rolleßton, Seddon, Shera. E. M. bmith, Swan, 1. Thompson, Wilson, Wright. ' PAIKS.-Aye : Pinkerton. No : Lawry. Sir R. STOUT moved a new clause to the effect— " That the registrar or olerk of any court in which any member has been adjudged bankrupt, or declared to be a, public defaulter, ' or convicted, of felony or of corrupt practices, shall- within 48 hours after such* adjudication, declaration, or conviction notify the Speaker thereof ; and fche penalty for any registrar or clerk failing to send such notification shall not exceed £5 for everyday he shall neglect to send $uch notification."— Agreed to on the voices. Mr FISH moved a further new clause to the effect that the, women's franchise shall not take (fftjet till a plebiscite o? all men and women in the colony shall ,be taken, and a majority of votes' recorded in favour of giviog woman % suffrage. He-held ib was impossible to enrol the whole of, the women .of the colony in time for the next general election.— The, clause was lost by 44 to Is. . . Mr. BUOHANAN moved a further new clause, the main object of which r he explained, was to further the purity of election. The 1 clauEe gave power to any person to inspect ■ claims for enrolment at tbe same time and " place as he might inspect the names already on the roll. ' ■ " , „ . The Hon. Mr SEDDON approved of the clause, and said- it was. a very necessary provision.— Carried on the voices. > ' The Hob. Mr SEDDON moved a new clause to the effect' that every elector must specify ' which roll he wishes his name to Appear on, and if any elector! vote or offer to vote.in any dis- ; tricfc other, than that in which his, name "appears on the, roll, or allow his name to be retained -, on more than one roll, he be T'abte to disqualifi-; . cation for six months, and also be liable to a • penalty not' exceeding £50. ' - The clause elicited strong opposition, but it ', was finally passed with several amendments by 24 to 21 ; the latter portion being struck out, which provided that if any person notwithstanding his disqualification attempted to vote in a district in which his name did not appear on the roll his vote thould be disqualified, aud he should be liable to £50 penalty. -A lt-ngthy discussion took place on the schedules. • The Hon. Mr -SEDDON proposed a new • schedule, to the effect tbat the poll should close at 7 o'clock at' the following - electorates :— Aqckland, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, ParnelL Thames; Napier, Wanganui, Nelson, LytUton, Timarn, * O-jmaru, Waifcaki, Eden, Caversham, Invercargill, Avon, Chalmers, and ' Palmera'fcon North!— .agreed' to. ' , The.bill jvas reported with amendments. . ' The Hon. Mr &EDDON saidhe had intended to commit the bill in order to strike out the leaseholder's qualification from the bill, bub aB the recommittal would probably lead to considerable de|ay he rhouid not move to that effect, bub would get tho leaseholder's qualifiI'ai.ion struck out of the bill in the Legislative 1 Council. ' ' . . . ' The amendments were agreed to, and the ■bill ordered to be read a third time on Friday. - Tho House rose ab 1.45 a.m. THE GOVERNMENT AND THE LIQUOR *\ QUESTION. v The Difficulty of the Qd^stion. — A Crisis .) i"- LooJiiNGf ~ - „ The position indicated in my despatch of yesterday as" to the difficulty in relation to Sir Robert Stout's Licensing Bill Is accentuated rather than abated, and it is; more than possible tbat a crisis ip the fortunes of the Liberal party ib impending. Nothing stems, more certain than that, Sip Robert ,J3touf and his following will strain ev£ry nerve^to f Qtce' the bill through Committee fn- one coi-titiuous sitting from the moment it comes on tojtaorrow evening. What then ? The carriage Jpf the. bill will mean the virtual defeat of the Government, 'since it will ! dcmonstraW.that Sir^Robett Stout is for the occasion the,actual leader of the House. How, then, can it : tfe defeated P The sbonevrallers of the liquor, Jparty went • down before the champions of veto on' the second reading. To win now' tbey,must have new allies, and thene can only come to th(m by 1 the ' stern mandate of the Government fcp thdse of their following who will ,,\inder snch remarkable conditions, obey fctieir behest. How many will be found to obey ? This, is the Question that must concern deeply the leaders on both sides, but most' of all the Premier. On the' other hand, if the present biil f is killed^ or even mutilated in a fashion that will leap to its rejection by the extremists of the temperance party, such a fate will bub stimulate its chiefesb. supporters to a rejection- of. the Government measure, which will not, itjs gate to spy. satisfy their demands. The Government will < offer restriction, whereas the party of Sir 1 Robert Stout will be content with nothing less than veto' by a bare majority. It thus follows that the Government party will, to a setmiDg certainty in such an issue, be divided 3 gainst ' ifcf elf, and that the adverse party tbus created' j .lined with those v who under all circumstances are- against the-Government must inflict' a defeat from which no recourse will be possible but an appeal to the country. ■ There is the middle course of compromise, * the surest and the safest way could the leaders | agree upon a road .whereon both might travel to a common goal. Bub the signs at present are that there -will .be no' compromise. The knight willhave hi? bill if, he pan get it, but would, I think; bo disposed to consider such

amendments as might in Committee be projected by the Government. But this would ineari"such a surrender of Ministerial prestige as to make ib a solution improbable if not impossible from the Government standpoint. It might be urged bhab since they are pledged to legislate upon the question they may fairly ask Sir Robert Stout to withdraw this bill to make way for their measure, and that Bhould its provisions fail to comply with the requirements of his party that they if in a majority may attain their object by amendments in Committee in a proper and constitutional way, to which, for aught I know, the knight at this moment might be .disposed to answer in homely phrase : " A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." In view of any possible clashing of Sir Robert Stout's licensing bills with Government legislation, a circular has been passed around among Government members for signature asking them to support Sir 'Robert Sboub's'bill, no* matter what the Government bill may be. Up to the present, however, only nine signatures have been obtained. There is nothing to identify Sir Robert with the circular. ORDJBR OF BUSINESS. In view of the opposition of members to commence giving up Mondays thus early in- the session, the Premier has agreed to begin sitting on such days on the 21sb instead of the 14th inst., and nob bo sit in the afternoon at that! When he proposed that Government business should take precedence on Wednesdays after the present week, Mr Fioh suggested they Bhould commence at once, at which suggestion the House laughed consumedly for they knew the member for Dunedin wanted to block Sir •Robert Stoub'B Licensing Bill. The Premier replied that that matter rested with the member for Inangahua, bub Mr Jackion Palmer retorted that other people were interested besides Sir Robert, for owing to the prolongation of the financial deba_te private members had had hardly any chance. Sir Robert Stoub pointed out that a promise had .been given that facilities should be afforded private members, and thought it was altogether too soon to begin taking away private members' days. Tae Government, however, gained the point. SIR R. STOUT AND MR BUCKLAND. A smart passage took place between the member for Manukau and Sir Robert Sboub when in Committee on the Electoral Bill. The latter deprecated the opening of the ballot boxes where less than 50 votes had been recorded, and advocated that the sealed boxes should bo sent to the returning officer for counting, as otherwise ib would be known how voters had gone, and ib might lead,to their dismissal from their work. Mr Buckland said this was the sort of statement that sickened him of Liberalism. Sir Robert Stout replied that he had known it done, and in the north, too. Mr Buckland said, they had men up there. Sir Robert suggested that perhaps the north sent some of its bad specimens to the 'House. Mr Houston gave instances where to do as suggested would mean a delay of peihaps 10 hours, and in some instances three days, while in ca c es in the north when rivers were flooded the boxes could not be got bo bheir destination ab .all. Such a clause would mean a very greab hardship. Mr Roberb Thompson said he had never met a workiug man who' was afraid* to record his vote. It was altogether foreign to his (the speaker's) experience. People in tbe outlyiDg district* would consider ib a very great barduhip. Mr Buckland said Sir Roberb Stout, with his usual flippancy, had referred to him. Sir Robert: •'•I never spoke of the hon. gentlero an ab all." Mr Buckland said of course Sir Roberb might say anything he liked, though he (Mr Bucklaud) generally tried to tell the truth. He had been the best man under the circumstances the electors of Manukau had to return, as was the case of Sir Robert ab Inangahua, with all his blessings of intellec 1 ; and advocacy of brotherhood of humbug. The ' claitoß' "was eventually eliminated on the motion of Mr R. Thompson. FISH AND FISHERMEN. Messrs Pinkerton and James Mills are interesting themselves on behalf of the fishermen of Port Chalmers. The fishermen feel the need of a public market for the sale of their fish, but they recognise that to encourage a' city corporation to erect a market, a certain revenue must be ensured. Government is to be asked to introduce legislation empowering bhe Ciby Council bo provide amarkebfor fish and means of inspection, and bo require that all fish shall pass through the market. NATIVE LEGISLATION. The proposed Native legislation of the Governmenb is attracting greab attention from members, whose opinious, however, are very, divided. Tho Opposition have not yet considered the bills. The adverse opinions of Native members I have already transmitted. Mr Houston, the cbaiiman of the Native Affairs Committee, strongly supports the Government measureß. Other Northern members who are chiefly interested are nob yet decided ; bub Mr W. Kelly opposes the proposals because they are too drastic. *"* The Native opinion upon the Native Reserves Administration Bill, the Native Land Purchase and Acquisition Bill, and the Rating Acts Amendment Bill has been concreted in the form of a petition, to be presented in the name, of Hone Heke, bhe chief of bhe mosb populous tribe in the north, and the grandson of old Hone' Heke, who took such a prominent part in the Maori wars The petition prays that the bills named should be printed and circulated amongst the Natives throughout the colony, that they should have an opportunity to comment on the different clauseß, and state such amendments as they think proper, and then send in their report ; and finally, that the bills should stand over until after the next general election^ This, says Hone Heke, maans delay, but it is only fair bo proceed as suggested ; and he asks, if the House sees fib, 'that he may app-'ar and support his contentions. Ibis stated to be probable that MrKapa wili retire to allow Hone Heke to become the Northern Maori representative at the next election. The general Native opinion is that if legislation in its present form is carried it means the sure extinction of the Maori race. LAND AND INPOME TAX RETURNS. A return, on the motion of Sir John Hall, tabled this evening, shows there were 208,459 valuations of land in 1891, to which 19,461 objections were received. Of these 9898 were "allowed, and the remainder referred to the court of reviewers, resulting in reductions being granted in 2010 instances. For the year ending 31st March 1892, 1089 returns of incomes were received from persons and companies. No cases have been brought to teat the correctness of the returns of income?, but inquiries as to the accuracy of tho returns are going on and will be continued. CONSUMPTION OF ARTICLES IN COMMON USE. From a return laid upon the table this evening showing the rate per head of consumption of articles in common use I take some interesting figures for 1892, Upon an adult male basis (for the compiler of the return is gallanb enough to assume that no woman drinks whieky) of 185,070 persons, 456,995 gallons of spirits were

consumed during the past year, being equal to 2 47 gallons, of a money valae of £1 17s lid each. The return covers the years from 1878 to 1892 inclusive, and shows the highest rate as £2 16s 3d for the first year, and the lowest £1 11b lOd for 1889. Of tobacco it is shown that New Zealand no n consumes at the rate of £1 3s each (exclusive of the ladies, of course), the duty upon which for last year amounted to £122 998. Wine is not generally drunk, for including both sexes the consumption for 1892 only averages Is 6J3 each. Local beer is more in favour than English, being 2s lOd per head against H-^d of the imported article. Tea touches olose to 3s, and sugar 3s 6d per head of the total adult population. NEW BILLS. The Hon. Mr Carroll : The Native Land Court Certificates Confirmation Bill. Mr Wilson : The Palmerston North Hospital Drainage Bill. Mr O'Conor : The Aliens Act' Amendment Bill. Mr O'Conor : The Elected Executive Bill. Mr Shera: The Property Law Consolidation Act Amendment Bill. Mr Jj Kelly : The Invercargill Corporation Empowering Act 1888 Amendment Bill. Hon. Mr Seddon : The Auctioneers Act Amendment Bill, The Alcoholic Liquors Control Bill, The MiniDg Act Amendment Bill (No. 2), and The G. W. Ell Empowering Bill. Hon. Mr Reeves : inspection of Building Appliances Bill. THE RAILWAY BILL. The Railway Bill, which will- be circulated to-morrow, will provide that a Minister of the Crown will have a seat on the Board of Railway Commissioners without a casting vote. THE FRANCHISE FOR WOMEN. Mr Shera carried his point giving the vote to Maori women if it be given to European women. JOTTINGS. Ihe third reading of the E'ectoral Bill is made an order of the day for Friday. It is stated on good authority that though women's fianchise may pass the Lower House without stipulations it will be affirmed by the Council only on condition that ib remains in abeyance until -the next general election. >. ■ Photographers are petitioning Parliament to place a duty on imported photographs. .' A petition against fche direct veto has been presented, t-igned by 510 electors of Ashburton. The Colonial Treasurer is suffering from an' injured knee, which is now very/much swollen. The doctors advise 14 days' rest. Leave of absenca for a week has been granted by the House. ) Further leave of absence for 14 days has been granted to Sir George Grey, who says he is alittle better, bat not yet able to leave "Auckland for Wellington. The Minister For Lands has promised to lay before tho Cabinet Major Steward's bill seoaring owners of threshing machines a preferential lien over grain and seed threshed by them. A measure is to be brought in bythe Government to amend the Auctioneers' Act to- meet a case recently heard before Captain Wray, R.M. Only> one school uses the services of an artillery officer for drill purposes. ', Tbe Premier says proper appliances for the restraint of all lunatics are kept at all the larger; police stations. Mr Hogg complained of th^" wife of a resident in the Forty-mile Busl| being, bruised and mangled in being taken to Wellington. 1 The Minister for Education thinks something should be done in respect of loss! of salary falling upon teachers through the measles epidemic. He hopes to say something definite in about a fortnight. An opportunity will be afforded the House this session of expressing an opinion on the question of resuming some of the coal mines now declared to be in an unsatisfactory condition, and working them on the co-operative system. The Public Accounts Committee met this morning to inquire into scrip transactions. A committee, consisting of Mr Shera (chairman), Sir Robert Stout, and Mr* B. G. Wright, was appointed to draw up a reportj In regard to this, I learn that ib is probable that the Hon. Mr White and Mr Rhodes will be exonerated from all blame in the transaction. If blame will be attached to anyone, it will be the Atkinson Ministry for going beyond the law, inasmuch as Auckland scrip could not be exercised in Canterbury for over £500,- whereas it had been exercised for over £300t), though that did not mean sixpence loss to the colony. The, committee will meet on Thursday to inquire 1 into the allegation directed against the Premier as to the alteredSPublic Works Statement.