FRIDAY, OCTOBER 30.

Otago Witness, Issue 1967, 5 November 1891, Page 17

FRIDAY, OCTOBER 30.

The Presbyterian Synod resumed business in the First Church this morning, the Moderator (the Rev. J. Steven) presiding. MINISTERS OP OTHER CHURCHES. • The Rev. Mr 'Ferguson reported that the majority of the presbyteries had approved of the resolution sent down to them that ministers of other 6han Presbyterian churches be not em- - ployed by presbyteries and churoh committees till they are received by the Bynod. It was agreed' to rule in accordance with the returns from presbyteries. STUDENTS FOB THE MINISTBY. , The Rev.'fflr'FEßXJUsoiralso reported that the majority of presbyteries had disapproved of the resolution sent down anent students without regular undergraduate training. It was agreed to depart from the resolution. SYfcdb STANDING OBDEBB. The Rev. Mr Ferguson fupther reported that the majority of presbyteries had amended the proposed synod standing orders, and »11 but one had declared them unnecessary. It was agreed to tako the standing orders into consideration' at a future sederunfc, the Committee of Order and Business to fix the time. <■ THE CONFESSION OP FAITH. The following report of a committee on the Confession of Faith was submitted to the synod by the Rev. Dr. Dunlop, the convener of the the committee :— I As was anticipated, your committee is not, for the present, in a position to place before the synod any definite recommendation bearing on the solution of the confessional problem presently exercising the mind of onr church, inasmuch as neither of the two churches on whose notion in the matter of the Confession your committee was Instructed to wait, has come to a final decision. Tbe revision of tbe Confession pro-

posed by the oommltteetfof the Presbyterian Church of Amerioa, and printed- in a late number of the Presbyterian, has simply been sent down to presbyteries for oritioism and suggestion. As regards tne Prae Chtirch of Scotland, the Declaratory Act proproposed by Its committee has, by a very large) majority, been adopted by the assembly of that church and sent down to presbyterlei, in terms of the Barrier Act To your oommittee It seems highly probable that the said Declaratory Aot will be finally adopted at the first ™eethig of the Genewl Assembly of the Free Church of Scotland. This, however, will uot complete the confessional leglsla-^ tion of that ohurch, inasmuch a» the formula 01 subscription and the questions put to ministers at their ordinattoa mu.t be adjuited to the proposed Declaratory Aot. Tour committee would therefore respeoif ully suggest that it be reapporatedin. terms of the motion adopted by the synod of 1890. The report was adopted. The following proposed Declaratory Act was appended to the report :— Wbereas It is expedient to remove difficulties and scruples which have been felt by some in reference to the declaration of belief required from persons who receive license or are admitted to office in this church, 4he General Assembly, with consent of presbyteries, declare as follows : — That, In holding and teaohlng, aooordlng to tbe oonfesslon, the Divine purpose of grace towards those who are laved, and the execution of that purpose in time, this churoh most earnestly proclaims, as standing in, the forefront of the revelation of grace, the love' of God, Father. Son, and Holy Spirit, to sinners of 'mankind, manifested especially in tbe Father's gut of the Son to be the Saviour of the world, in tbe oomiog of the Son to offer Himself a propitiation for sin, an<| in the striving of the Holy Spirit with men to bring them to repentance. That this olluroh also holds that all who hear the Gospel are -warranted and required to believe .to the saving of their sonls ; and that in tbe case of such as do not believe, but perish in their sins, the isiue Is due to their own rejeotion of the Gospel call. That this church does not teach, and doedrnoc regard the Confession as teaching, the fore-ordination of men to death irrespective of their own sin. That It is ihe duty of those who believe, ana one end of their calling by God to make known the Gospel to all men everywhere for tbe obedience of faith. And that while the Gospel is the ordinary means of salvation for those to whom it is' made known, yet it does not follow, nor is the Oonfeisiom to be held as teaching, that any who die' la .infanoy are lost, or that God may not extend His meroy, for Ghrl«t>'» sake, and by His Holy Spirit, to those who are beyond.the reach of these means, as it may seem good to Him, according to the riches of Hi* grace. "-That, in holding and teaching, according to the Confessionx>f Faith, the corruption of man's whole ! nature as fallen., this churoh also maintains that there remain tokens of his greatness as created in the image of God ; that he possesses a knowledge of God and of duty $ that he is responsible for com- ■ plianoe with the moral law and with tbe Gospel ; and that, although unable without tbe aid of thß Holy Spirit to return to God, be is yet capable of affections and' actions which in themselves are virtuous and praiseworthy. That this ohurch disclaims intolerant or persecuting principles, and does not consider berj office bearers, in subscribing the Confession, committed to any prinoiple, Inconsistent with liberty of oonsolenoe and tbe righi of private judgment. , That while diversity of opinion is recognised in this churoh on suoh points in tbe Confession, as do not enter into the substance oUbe BeformediFaith therein set forth, the church retains full authority to determine, in any case which may arise, what points fall -within this description, and thus to 'guard i against any abuse of this liberty to the detriment of sound doctrine, or to tbe injury of her unity and peace. In introducing the report Rev. Dr" DunloP said, the appendix 'thereto was simpler re- [ printed from " the Free Churoh report ! for tbe information of tbe synod, ' and was not, properly speaking, a part of the report. The committee had not beeni mischievously active during the past year — (Laughter.) They had 'not in the slightest degree strained or overstrained the powers that • the synod entrusted them with. Perhap< they ' •all 'learned from experience, and experience taught them to be very cautious in this matter, and to avoid the very appearance of driviog. As the committee understood their instructions,' ■they were to wait upon -the action of the ■churches in question — not necessarily on the completed action of both churches, but at least on one or other of 'those cb.urcb.eß. Let him remind them that neither- of those churches had reached a final decision in regard to this question. The American Church, in particular, from aught " f th'at they knew! might be a long, way from coming to a final decision in the matter. However, every hearty Presbyterian rejoiced in the fact that things seemed to be prospering in this matter with the great American Church, they rejoiced that something like a spirit of harmony prevailed in that body, and whether they followed in their lines or not, they certainly wished that church well. He nerd hardly shrink from indicating his own .'very firm conviction that it' would not be wise for ihe Presbyterian Church here to follow in the line of the American Presbyterian Church, That churoh knew it's own 1 affairs best/ Perhaps, too, it would seem somewTiit' 'ufigrsicious tb criticise anything in the prpposaldf its commifctep. Still he might say that £ in one point it was unnecessarily, dogmatic in practically affirming that all infanta were necessarily to 'be saved. <In his opinion that was a statement that ought not to. appear in any 'creed. He thought the question should b^e left' open.- There ,were" ; good friends, and true" that have believed, an/ido? flow believe, that thAt was an unwarranted 'statement; In that respect the Free Ohurch: prop6B.il ~*was' Vgreajbly "suijaribr. Coming" now to the Free Church of Sootland.ne ! believed* technically that the church olaimed the right to give" immediately a purely Declaratory Act the force of law, but they had acted wisely in this matter, and had sent it down to presbyteries in the terms of. .the Barrier Act. They were not to be too fast in assuming that although the report with regard to the Declaratory Ace was adopted in the Free Churoh by a very; large majority, that the act would become a law of the church, even • though a majority of the pros* byteries declared in its favonr. The next assembly might not be of the same mind as the last assembly, and it was by no means pledged, in a legal sense, to adopt the act as a law of the churoh just because a majority of presbyteries might declare in its favour. However, he took' it to be in a high degree probable that the act would become the law of the Free CDurch of Scotland at its next meeting of General Assembly. r The committee, of whiofi he was the convener, did not feel warranted in advising the synod to adopt the act before them, or any other act, in such a way as to give it the force of a law of the church.' '.The Barrier Act had no part, he believed, in the legislative procedure of the church to which they belonged. It, however, might be well to adopt it, as it would simplify legislation very much. He would now take the liberty, in accordance with the feeling expressed by the committee, to move that the synod adopt the report and reappoint the oommittee, in terms of a motion adopted by the synod of 1890— (Applause.) The Rev. W. Will seconded tho motion. He said that he was somewhat surprised to find that a few on all occasions ridiculed the proceedings of the committee because they moved so slowly. He believed that the very best thing that the committee could do was to do very little — (hear, hear) — as little as possible, consistent with keep* ing the subject before the church. The resolution of the synod last year appointed the oommittee to do nothing; it appointed a committee' to wait until some definite decision or conclusion was reached on the part of the Free Churoh of Scotland or on the part 'of the Free Church in America. The assemblies of those uhurohes had not finally deoided upon the subject, and therei fore the committee appointed by the synod

could not propose at the present .time that this proposed Declaratory Act should be adopted by the synod, or be taken into consideration by the synod in order to be sent to presbyteries and afterwards adopted. He thought it must be evident to everyone that the church that would command the respect of that synod above all others would be the Free Church of Scotland, and any final decision to which she might come would command the confidence of the people of the church here above that of any other church. On that ground, if the Free Church Declaratory Act were finally adopted by that church he was very much inclined to say that that should be the act which the synod should | adopt, although there were some phras.es in it that were a little ambiguous. Dr Macgbegob heartily supported the motion. The committee were requested to do nothing, and ihey had done it thoroughly.— (Laughter.) For this they were to be commended. Two years ago he moved that no definite action ahould be taken until they knew what determination the Free Cburoh of Scothnd had' come to. Time had proved that he was then, in the right. The motion was then agreed to. THE MODERATOR FOB NBXT YEAR. The Moderator reported that tlra'committee appointed to recommend 'a ' t moderator for next year" tad met that morning and had unanimously agreed to recommend that the Rev. Mr Ewen, of Limestone Plains, be appointed. The recommendation was agreed to. ' THE CONSENSUS CREED. The committee appointed to consider the Consensus Creed reported as follows :— The synod thank the committee fcf the Assembly of the United States for their courtesy in communicating with it on the subject of a Consensus Creed, la view of the limited extent of the Otago and Southland church, the »ynod does not see ife meet to undertake the drafting of such a creed on its own part, but wil be glad to receive any information regarding what may be done in the matted by the larger branohes of the Presbyterian Church, with which the synod is prepared cordially to co-operate. The report was adopted. A church at catlins. The appeal from the decision of the Clutha Presbytery anent erection of a church at Catlin's having been called for, the Rev. Mr Chisholm intimated, on behalf of the appellant, that the appeal had been fallen from. The matter was accordingly departed from. .STANDING COMMITTEES. A committee was appointed to nominate standing committees. The remainder of the business at the morning sitting of the synod was transacted in private. Afternoon Sedebtjnt. At the afternoon sitting of the synod, the first business taken up was that of the report on the SOSTENTATION FOND. J This report was brought before the synod on the previous' day. The following overture from the Presbytery of Southland was read in connection with the matte* of the fund i— •* Whereas the existing austenfation liih'd reflations are hot altogether 'satisfactory^ an£Fwfie¥eas the principle of the entire sustentation fund scheme is to some extent being' ignored, it iß*hei"e¥y overtured by the Presbytery 6f~ Southland that the venerable the Synod of Otago and Southland arrange that a regular ' visitation of all be carried out by the Sustentation Committee in conjunction with the several presbyteies; also that a vigorous and united attempt bu made within the next three years to secure a dividend of £250 per annum, and further take the whole subject' of the state of the sustentation fund into" consideration, 7 and devise 'such other measures for the management of this fund as to its wisdom it shall ( deem best." The Rev. Mr 'Jolly (Lawrence) moved the following aeliviMiice :— * Adopt tha report ; thank the committee, especially the convener ; express gratitude ifco^Gbd "for the measure of prosperity that has ' attended this important fund during the year; acknowledge the liberality; of the members and adherents of the congregations of the churob ; urging upon deacons' courts the careful supervising of the collecting of this "fund 5 utge upori"non-aid-giying congregations that they supplement, the necessity of \ showing stricter loyalty to this, the central fund of the church ; and agree to erect Toi Tois into a sanctioned charge?' r Mr J. ! Macka'y the deliverance, which was adopted after some discussion. The synod adjourned at 6 p.m. Evening Skdebtjnt. an invitation to usb theathsn.a3um. On the synod resigning in the evening, it was intimated' that members were invited to make use of the Athenaeum rooms during the session. ■ e THB GENERAL MISSION FUND.' ' The Clerk (the Rev. Mr Bannefinan) intimated that a donation' of £5fT had been received for the general ftissibn f rind from some anonymous friend —(Applause). UNION WITH THE PflESßirEßlAjisr CHURCH OF NEW ZEALAND^ * The following overture frem the Presbytery of Olutha was ■'considered, by the synod .— " Whereas, in accordance with the catholic and unifying spirit of JPresbyterianism, our church has almost, from the beginning of her history aimed al anlncor&orating union' with the church* in the\norttie.rn paris of New Zealand, but has been' let' hiifterto chiefly by geographical difficulties; whereas these difficulties are daily lessening' as' the facilities for travelling by land and sea are increasing; whereas, it is the tendency of separate churches as years go by to Stiffen info' peculiarities of polity and worship that rende'r'union less practicable ; and whereas, in extending the church: "throughout this now land, in raising up^aßd' graining a Christian ministry to meet the requirements of colonial life, in coping with the demand for missionary effort in tlae New Hebrides and elsewhere, and in dealing with all social and educational questions, a united churoh could act with greater prestige 1 and effect, it is humbly overtured by the Presbytery of Clutha to the venerable the Synod of Otago and Southland, indicted to meet in the' month of October ensuing, that they would take this whole subject into their serious consideration, and devise auch measures thereanent as may tend tff promote the glory of God and the good of the church." The' following overture from the Presbytery of Southland was also read :—" That, inasmuch as the present seems to be a time peculiarly opportune for effecting an incorporating union between this church' and the Presbyterian Church of New Zealand, it is humbly overtured by the Presbytery of Southland co the venerable the Synod of Otago and Southland, indicted to meet in Duriedin 6n the Jast Monday of October, to take such steps as may eeem to them moat likely to accomplish that desirable result at as early a period as possible." The Rev. Mr Chisholm, in speaking to the overture, said it was the clear duty of the church to proceed in this matter, and he would just like at the outset to disabuse th« minds of membeia of synod of an idea that was given utterance to by the moderator of the Northern Church Assembly in his address the other evening. He was not going to criticise that address, but in dealings with this matter of union ihe repre- ntatives of the Northern Church seemed

to think that this was a movement promoted at the present time almost entirely by the younger members of the synod. Now, this could hardly be the case. The two overtures before the synod came not from individuals, but from presbyteries. The one from the Clutha Presbytery was unanimously adopted ; and the other overture from the Southland Presbytery he believed was just as unanimously agreed to. These presbyteries were comprised of both old and young members. It was, therefore, putting the matter in a wrong light to regard it as emanating from younger members, and as being pushed forward bythem alone. But even supposing that that were the case, he would say in promoting a movement of this kind the younger members would be showing themselves better Presbyterians than the older ones, because it seemed to him that the movement was truly in accordance with tbe traditions and history of the Presbyterian Church. No, doubt through human error and imperfections the enuroh had been broken up into sections, but that was a matter that ought to be deplored, and a matter that ought to be remedied as soon as possible. These divisions had created an atmosphere that had been in the very highest degree detrimental to spiritual life, and a discredit to the church of Christ throughout the world. That was sufficient, to justify the' statement in tbe overture from the Clutha Presbytery that union was in accordance with the catholic and unifying spirit of Presby terianism. That was why, he said, if this movement was a movement that had been originated, and was being pushed forward by the younger men they would be showing themselves better Presbyterians and more loyal to tbe history and tradition* of their ohurch than the older men. But as he bad said before that was not the ease. There were a great many mote older, men in favour of the movement than young men. He concluded by moving that the overtures be received. The motion was agreed to. The Rev. Mr Ferguson moved the following deliverance :— " Adopt. the overtures; appoint a large representative committee to maturely consider the matter of union, and report to next synod." He trusted the house would adopt the motion without^ a division. He pleaded for union in tbe interests of a national church. He wanted them all to feel that they belonged to a church that had a rule in the extreme north as in the extreme south. It had been said that there'was no disunion between the churches, but j that was not the same thing as union*.. > The Hon. W. D. Stbwabt,' in seconding the motion, said he thought they were substantially unanimous in favour of union, and that tbe only question was one of, expediency. As he understood it, tbe three objections raised against union weTfe the questions of creeds, of distance, and of the special endowments belonging to the church The question of distance was vanishing every day. As to creeds, he believed that union would bring about a uniformity, and not a diversity, of creeds. Special legislation might be required on the subject of endowments, but he was quite sore that what the, two branches of the Presbyterian Church of tbe colony agreed upon the Legislature would not hesitate for 1 a single moment to -give effect to. He declared that it was an' anomaly and a disgrace that non-union should so long have existed— (applause)— and he thought there was no doubt that the church would prosper and flourish under union to a much greater extent than under present circumstances. The Key. W. Banneeman said he was not opposed to union — he ever had been a friend of ib— but he did not think the time had yet -arrived for an incorporating union between the northern and southern branches of the church in this colony. He criticised Mr Ohisholm's remarks at some length, and expressed his belief that more could be done to further the cause of Christianity in New Zealand with the churches stimulating each other as at present than under union. He thought that Ofcago had lost a very great deal as a province by union with the rest of tbe colony in the abolition of the provinces, and he thought a similar loss would result from the nnion of the two churches in the present state of the colony, because he still argued only on the inoppbrtuneness of the proposal' Ha believed the time would come when there would only be one Presbyterian Church in New Zealand, and he hoped the time would come when it would be tbe one church of New Zealand.— (Laughter.) ft The Rev. Dr Stuart : That is a dream. The Rev. W. BAnnebbcan, continuing, said that one point against the proposal was the cost that would be added to' the present working. They could not meet the travelling expenses of their representatives to Auckland, for less; than £800 or £900, and very little 'short of that would be required if the General Asembly of the church met in Wellington . He would like to know i how the#e expenses ' would be defrayed, and whether their elders could spare the "time to attend the meeting of the assembly there. They would be robbed of the influence and advice of their elders in ' carrying on their business as a church, and they would' be robbej of the high advantage of their elders returning to their sessions and congregations carrying back somewhat of the spirit and interest of the synod' in promoting the work of God. To sacrifice that would he too great a price to pay for the'union of the two churches. Were' the churches disunited, he would like to ask? They were united as branches of the one Church of Jesus Christ in the same way as branches of the vine were united one to the other on the same stem. Were they not united in having common standards? He was perfeotly satisfied that the friends of union had not considered what was involved in the proposal — what the loss would be to the church and what tbe injury would be to the progress of the church in the land ? WHb was to conduct the church extension scheme ? Who was to manage their sustentation scheme, for they had none in the northern churoh ? If the management of these matters was to be left to the synod, the assembly would be but a conference, probably only a clerical conference. Were they to sacrifice their healthy, honestworking synod for a mere clerical conference ? He would move the following deliverance:— 41 Pass from the overtures, and resolve that it is net an opportune time to prosecute the matter of union." The Rev. W. Will said he could not jjiay that be had very great pleasure in seconding this motion, because he --regretted exceedingly that the subject had been brought before the synod at all.— (Hear, hear.) He believed that union must come before very long, but let there be a synod for the North Island, a central synod for Chrlstohnrch and the West Coast, and a synod for Otago and Southland Then let these have, aa far as possible, complete power of administration within themselves — (hear, hear)— and let them have a kind of general assembly, meeting perhaps once in three years — one time at Auckland, one time at Wellington, or wherever, found necessary. But while tbe three would combine the idea of unity, these synods should, as far as possible, be left to carry out their own organisations and to do their own work. That was the idea that led to the consideration of the snbject at all, and that would be the idea that would come to the front yet and it would probably solve their difficulties.

If the synod agreed to union, he did not think it would be carried with anything like unanimity or anything like cordiality, and if a large minority were dragged into the united cburoh what would be the value of thaf union.— (A Voice : M Worthless.") It would be worthless and worse than worthless. He would suggest that Mr Chisholm should withdraw the subject for another two years. The Rev. A. M. Finlatson rose to support the motion of Mr Ferguson. He, however, wished to guard himself against being committed to all that was advocated in the overtures. He was not quite sure that an incorporate union was the union* that the ohurch of Otago and Southland desired. The idea suggested by Mr Will was the most practical and statesmanlike view of the subject that had been brought before the synod. He did not think that the adoption of Mr Bannerman's motion would give satisfaction. It appeared to him that the best' way was to refer the matter' to a oommittee representing all kinds of views, who would look at it from all points of view, and bring up a mature judgment on the matter. Tbe Rev. Dr Macqbegob said he was strongly . in favour of union. It was a very important matter to have various centres of influence so that matters of importance could be fairly ventilated. It would be a very great advantage appealing to a wider constituency so as not to be constantly carried' mto'lrretrievable positions. But. the abstract durableness of union was not in question. He, thought they all favoured union, but tbe question was whether the present time was opportcne. He was of opinion that it was not. The Rev. Dr Stuart never regarded himself as opposed to union, and believed that the way for promoting it would by-and-bye be secured. At present he did not see what advantage was to arise to the churoh from union, but he believed Ifhere would be great disadvantage. He looked upon it that the church of Otago would for some years to come be a great misßioa church, and that its charge was to carry the Gospel to every valley and district in Otago— (applause) ; and if they succeeded in planting schools and churches throughout Otago, following the settlers toT every district, and instructing them in tbe fear of God and in the ways of civilisation, they would be performing a very' noble work. For administrative purposes their synod carried the palm in New Zealand. Their " elders were a strong moral baDk, whose force was frequently felt, and they bad once «dcU again! saved the Synod from blunders, and he believed they would save them still, but if the ministers took to by-ways, the elders might not follow them, but would call them back. ,- He considered the time for union was not ripe, but he believed it would come, and that heaven would open a way for securing union of administration that would be advantageous to them as a whole, but let them, he said, have patience!— (Applause.) Messrs J.Johnston and A. C. Begig supported Mr Bannerman'a motion. The Rev. A. B. Todd supported Mr Ferguson's motion, which he regarded as a very mild one. It was quite possible to have a union of the two churches without interfering with the mode of raising, ordinances, either by way of the sustentation fund or otherwise. As to doctrinal points, he held that there were greater differences of opinion in the churoh of Otngo and Southland than .there were between tbe northern church and the southern one. Tbe Revs. I. Jolly and A. H. Stobo also spoke in support of Mr Ferguson's motion. The Ri-v. J. Mi M'Kerrow eupported Mr Bannerman's motion, but not for Mr Banner.man's reasons. He maintained, that tbe synod should. get the question of the Declaratory Aot and tbe revision of the Westminster Confession of Faicb out of the way before they took up any other question of fcuch importance as the question of union. When they had settled those doctrinal questions then let them bring on the question of union and carry it through. The Rev. J. Gibson Smith, Mr W. H. Ado, the Rev. J. Chisholm, and Mr W. Ham spoke ia support of Mr Ferguson's motion, which wa» opposed by Messrs J. Adam and A. Christie. - The Rev. J. Ferguson having replied, The synod proceeded to a vote by calling the roll, with the result that tbero voted : For Mr Ferguson's motion, 36 ; for Mr Bannerman's, 31. The following was the division list :— For Mr Ferguson's motion : • Ministers- Hevs A M Flnlayson, W Campbell, J Gibson Smith. O Dutton, At Don, J Ohlsholm. G Hall, A M Dalrymple, S WOnrrie, I Jolly, A H Stobo, B Ewen, J Baird, J Ferguson, J Blackie, H Kelly, W White. A. B Todd, and P Bams&y. Elders— Hon W D Stewart; Me»ir* G Keid, J Maokay. W H Ash, W M'Oorkindale, W Gibb, J M'Hattle, W Ham, J Cowfe! J nhaw, J Brass, B Steel, J E Taylor, T Bohertsim, J Kirk, J Bdio, and W Hutchison. ' For Mr Bannerman's motion : - „ „ . . Miolßterß-BevsW Will, Dr Stuart, JM Sutherland, J Kirkland, BUM Sutherland, J Christie, JM M'Kerrow, W Bannerman, I U Spenoe, T Alexander. J Clark, Dr Macgregor, ; J A Will. J Lothian, J M Davidson, JBSmellle, and J Johnston. Elders-Messrs A GhishobjL John Held, A Blackwood, D Thomson, John Johnston (Kalhikuj, W Ohisholm, A Christie, A M'Sregor, A Boss, Q Moir, A C Begg, J Adam, W Stewart, and W White. I The synod rose at 11.35 p.m., to meet at 7 p.m. on Monday.