THE SAN FRAN CISCO MAILSERVICE.

Otago Witness, Issue 956, 16 May 1889, Page 14

THE SAN FRAN CISCO MAILSERVICE.

AN INTERVIEW WITH MR CREIGHTON.

HIS IMPRESSIONS OF THE COLONY.

Mr R. J. Oreighton, formerly a resident of Dunedin aud well known in connection with New Zealand affairs abroad, is at present in this city. A representative of the Times had a long and interesting conversation with him ob general matters, also in relation to the San Francisco mail service, the continuance of which he is specially advocating. In reply to questions re* garbing his impression of the colony as ' a whole, M.r Creighton said that he had been deeply impressed with the evidences of progress on all Bides. He had travelled by rail from New Plymouth to vWellington, and from Lytteltoa to Dunedia. This was a flying inspection, as it were, but it satisfied him of the solid progress in agricultural development made by the colony in' the past 15 years. Comparing it with the Pacific Coast and that part of Australia he had visited, the test was favourable to New Zealand. Settlement did not seem to be spreading in Australia. This was not the case on the Pacific Slope, but the growth in New Zealand appeared to be ndore uniform. California and the northern territory of theJPacific Coast had enormous advantaged over New Zealand inasmuch as they received the outflow of an energetic population of 60 millions of people imbued with the true colonising spirit. Immigrants to the coast did, aot flock into the towns. They went upon the land in a spirit of commendable self-reliance; This remark applied to both sexes: ; There were numerous instances of , parties of young ladies leaving their homes in the Eastern States and going out to Dakota and other Western territories, taking up homestead, areas,- building houses, and, by hard manual labour, fulfilling all the conditions of the Homestead' La w; but in California, instances of this kind were rarr.and colonisation proceeded more upon family lines. But the absolute certainty of am independence, as a recompense of a few years of hard and patient toil, was a sufficient inducement for men of character and education to '• draw stakes" in the Bast and come to California. Naturally, however, settlement was confined to favoured districts, the influx of population not being sufficient to cause an overflow throughout the State. There was also a large influx of rich men from the Eastern States to Southern California, and their liberal expenditure helped that section. But, with all these advantages in its favour, Mr Creighton thought New Zealand had relatively prpgressed quite as rapidly as the purely agricultural districts of California. "Whatyoujwant is more people to develop your agricultural resources and a market for your produce nearer home. While you ship your surplus 13,000 miles to a market, you always stand at a disadvantage. I may say that Dunedin is greatly improved since I saw it last," he remarked, " and I am greatly pleased to meet so many old friends. Your city seems to have changed less in its leading citizens than any other New Zealand town." " With all this evidence of progress before one's eyes," Mr Creighton continued, " what is it you complain about? Your papers and public speakers have been crying out about Bad times and ruin and desolation. I see no Bigns of it. When I passed through Auckland last January they were just closing a fortnight's holidayrmaking, and half the stores were closed at noon because it was Saturday. The people were well dressed, had plenty of money apparently, and seemed to take the world easy. On my return three monthß later they were as elastic and happy looking as ever. New Plymouth ' appeared to thrive in spite of adverse circumstances; while Wellington had gone holiday-making to the Hubt the day I reached there, and passed over £2000 through the totalieator at the races. Very good for a day's sport, in dulltimea, is it not? Then along the line from Christchurch to Dunedin theie were welldressed people at every station; trim fences and thrifty homesteads along the| route. You see nothing almost of this kind along the line from Sydney to Melbourne. The grass land is going back to bush a few miles from the capital cities, and very little of it is visible in the agricultural districts of California. 11 It is .quite true that you have had many disadvantages, but you seem to have overcome them. Your great drawback is want of people —of a producing population, as well as distance r from a market. Australia gave you a temporary outlet in the past two seasons, but you cannot depend upon it next year. You must look else- 1 where for a profitable outlet for your produce. But while you confine yourself to one export market, apart froiE Australia, you are greatly handicapped, because economic conditions are against you. You have an alternative market open to you, if you would only exploit it." " What do you meanrby that ? " " I mean that you have come to regard England as your exclusive market, although it is not by any means the best one available if you had the enterprise to avail yourself of it. You are at very great disadvantage in theJEnglish market owing to the heavy transportation charges, and commissions, and great distance ; also to the fact that your products are sold in open competition with the world's' surplus, which is shipped to London." "Do you regard the Californian service as opening to us such an alternative market as you speak of?" •• Most certainly I do. The United States market is open to you, and it is a better market thau England, because it is protected. England charges no duty on your products, but it admits the products of all other countries on the same terms. The colonies have no advantage in the English market over countries where labour is underpaid, and colonial products are forced to compete in London with the less costly products of coolie labour. For example, Indian wheat sells at Mark Lane in level competition with Otago and Canterbury wheat, although your labour is high priced while Indian labour is paid in depreciated silver at a few pence per day. The products of tbe black labour at the Cape, of the peons of Chile and Argentine, and of the manumitted slaves of Brazil, paid either in depreciated silver or still more depreciated currency, are placed m competition with your, products, which are paid for in gold or its equivalent, not to speak of Russia and the South-eastern States of Europe, where the cost of production is very low. Everything i« against you in this competition. Wages and rent are paid, in gold in the colonies, while those countries where silver ia the measure of value, and where the standard of living is low and hours of labour long, have a decided advantage on the exchange, as they pay their miserable pittance in silver and are paid for their products in gold. Under these conditions would it not be well to look around for another market ?" "But the United ; States would not take our wheat." '" That is true, but it would take a great many other ihings which you produce if you sent them there. Canada should be an example to you. It is heavily weighted by debt and the Canadian Pacifio incubus, but it has not lain down under it till The Dominion Government has been prospecting for a market for many years outside England, aadppw looks to Australia to provide

it. I don't think', the. result will, reward jfche' enterprise, bat you might profitably follow' its example." ' " You don't think the' Canadian Pacific line will benefit New Zealand." '" ' " I don't Wee how it can. Canada is an old and poor conntry, sparsely peopled, and for at least four months every year snow-bound. It is unfortunate,also,in having nearly one-third of its population aliens in blood and language— a pro,vince which is more French than the French nation. French-Canadians have not progressed materially in the present century, and' they enjoy special privileges' under treaty which their fellow Kanucks do not enjoy. Loyalty to the British Crown id not' a prevailing sentiment in .French Canada, and anybody who talks of Imperial federation in ''connection with, the Dominion is either speaking without knowledge or promoting the business interests of the Canadian [Pacific, which is"realisiri|"upbn its land assets, and keeping up, a ;ahow :6f;trans-con-tinental traffic for very transparent reasons. " You must remember also that Canada has a high Protective 'tariff and ■ exports its surplus agricultural jproducts, to the States, and ,Eng« land. I don't kaow anything Canada can buy from you. It exports fruit, butter and cheese, lumber, fish, breadstuffs and hops, and, on the , Pacific sicle, coal. You might find a market for 'yjSur Wesfcport and Greymouth coal in' California, which took one-fourth of the total coal output of New 1 South Wales last year,' but Vancouver Island coal is a formidable rival, and has only been kept from dominating the San Francisco market through Messrs Spreckles' enterprise' in < keeping Australian.coal; to the fore. But Canada will buy nothing from .you.* New Zealand is out of touch with the, Dominion, bnt j if it were other, wise there is nothing to touch. The total trade' of Canada with Australasia in !l§sf :was under £50,000. In the Pacific province there is a population of between 30,000 and 40,000, and there is' ! really no population to 1 speak of between Vancouver, with about 8000 t people, and Winnipeg. When Manitoba is reached the policy of the - Government and people -is- for closer union with 'the United States', andrailroad connection has been made by the provincial railroad system with the Northern Pacific in spite of the most resolute opposition of the Canadian-Pacific Company which had an armed force in.the field to preyent the junction. The foreign trade, of the" Dominion, with a population, of over 6;6b0,000, was £41,500,715 in 1887; whereas the foreign trade of Australasia, with about half the population of the Dominion, was £111,407,000. Indeed, the colony of New South Wales is not far behind Canada in its total volume of foreign commerce.) The climate precedes the idea of the, Canadian route being ever used, as a fast postal service. The navigation of the St.. Lawrence was .closed last Novemr i ber, and it is not open yet. Last mail bronght j news of snow-bound trains, as .every mail since November has ddiie; and snowed-up FrenchCanadian families had to subsist) upon boiled hay, according to a Montreal despatch. " I mention these points to dispel the illusion < that Canada wUI buy anything from you, or that it can be a competing mail route with San Francisco. In about eight years the subsidy paid to the Canadian-Pacific railroad will stop, and unless it can induce Australia and Great Britain, to join the Dominion in subsidising a steamship line to make traffic for its road.it must collapse. ) There is no local traffic to speak of to sustain the road. If the' New Zealand Parliament' taxes its people for'the Canadian land and transportation monopoly it will do a very foolish thing. Besides, in a decade from now Canada will be incorporated in the United States." "In that case, what is our market ? If we cannot sell to Canada, br profitably to England, where are we to send our products ? J} • "That question implies helplessness. Suppose England were submerged by an act of God, would New Zealand cease to grow grain and fruit, make butter, and freeze mutton? Have you not the world for a market ? You compete with the world at London, and you cannot be much worse off on the universal parish than you are now. But you have the United States for a market, and if you avail yourselves of the opening, you will be able to look complacently' on the fierce- competition in the world's mart' of London." T "The United States shuts us out from its 'market. The American tariff closes us out. They don't take our wool." "" That is a mistake. , You are not closed. out. You are treated like all ' the world. There is no discrimination against you, and I think the New Zealand tariff is more onerous than that of the United States." ' ' "The duty on wool shuts us out from the American market." '* "Not at all. America buys your wool and pays duty upon it, but owing to the development; of your trade, by (keeping.' to a single market ' where • your credits are established, Americans are forced to go to London to buy Australasian wool. In 1886-87 .over 14,000,0001b .weight of foreign wool was bought for consumption 'in - the ' United ' States, plus forty thousand dollars' worth of woollen manufactures. America buys your wool, but such are your business* ramifications that the woolgrowers are compelled to pay half a dozen commissions and charges after their wool is , baled before it finally reaches the American buyer at London. ..This is doubtless? f very pleasant for the brokers, but it can hardly.be so agreeable to the woolgrower. It. would be better for him to sell direct to Americans and, save all those charges, but he is usually in the hands of his agents, who ship his wool to England in the absence of local buyers, and hel pays the charges, which sometimes equal the profit on his year's operations. If 'a'strong local market could be made for American buyers, the woolgrower would derive the full advantage, but this is not done. If American buyers appear at the sales in Australia, prices are run, up, and they are compelled to pay so high that they prefer buying in London. There they have the advantage of the competition of wool from all parts of . the worldl' produced at the lowest possible cost. , They only' buy for immediate wants, saving storage and interest, and the producer pays all charges. Thus, you see, the existing system shuts you out of the American market direct, and makes you pay a penalty for concentrating all your business in London.' The San Francisco service, if placed npon the basis I have submitted to the Australian Governments, would' secure you the American market,; and emancipate you measurably from middlemen."

"What is that basis?" "That the colonies undertake to subsidise the Oceanic Steamship 7 Company* for a period of — say 10 years— at £40,000 ;a year, for a fortnightly service, and conditional upon the United States Governments paying ka equal amount of subsidy for the same number,, of i, years. If the < United States do not pay this subsidy, then the colonies are to be" released from.their contract,' it being recognised that the UnitedSt'ateshaTe an equal interest, in < maintaining this, service ,as> the colonies. Nothing could be fairer than this. It is entirely different from, the bald proposition to renew the service upon' the old fines, which leave the United States free. • I think I , am justified in expecting that this proposition j will be accepted. It will open the United States market for fruit and butter and cheese, and give the colonies a praotical monopoly of it owing to

tHe'^opppsiiiioV of '.'ss' seasons. . The United States 'imported in 188^, tJo' supplement i& fruit crop; over £31000,000 worth'ofduty paying fruit; 1 and '£I,ooo,ooo 'Worth of free- -fruit. Apples, pears, and < gooseberries' 'are iree. i. Prime New Zealand apples would sell from' 6d -to Is apiece i in California in winter, and there is a consuming market of over 60,000,000 people, to.jgo, upon. With • fortnightly steamers , fitted up with cool air chambers, you could feed the American market;, with fruit. The same year over 5,000,0001b cheese were imported. In winterfresh butter retails at 2s to 3s per pound in San Francisco. By 'establishing a refrigerator at ; San Francisco 'you could ship beef and mutton there and get good prices.- Veal and lamb bjring 2s per pound in New York in winter. It is true most of those articles pay duty, but ■ the consumer pays the tax. . i •■. ;,. " Off course to avail yourselves of this market you must have a, thorough organisation. Unless you do so you wijl lose money ; but if yon organise on a, business basis you are bound to succeed." , , " But commercially the San Francisco service has never benefited New Zealand ?" ' "And it never will unless you take advantage of it. ,In these days of keen competition you 1 must push business, and not waif till it' comes to yam Heretofore the colonies were content to drift with the stream of English commerce, but they -must now strike .out a new line for themselves; ' While ..availing themselves of the ' English market they should form other connections. ', .The United States is the, only, possible i market, and "it is by odds the ,best. j The States are, now at, a point in their development when they are anxious, to extend their foreign trade, having built all necessary trunk railroads, and they are, prepared to foster trade |by 'tariff discrimination. Why not go - into a postal contract" partnership 'with the 1 ' United States and then ask for tariff discrimination in your favour. You would probably get it, which j would be better than Freetrade as it. would operate in the shape of ,a bounty as in the caise of Hawaiian sugar and rice. But if, you discontinue the San, Francisco servjee, and refuse 1 to make overtures', to the United' States— the mos^ powerful and richest nation on earth— you place yourselves in antagonism to American interests, a,nd can look for no favours. It would pay New Zealand to undertake the whole thing itself land become the' 'most favoured ; nation with' America.'" ' •' ' " Why not subsidise a Canadian line and run under ;the British flag P " For two reasons. If you < do .so the United Stated cannot, subsidise the line, and yon waive your claim for discrimination. Next, if- you run under| the British flag you have no immunity from capture in the., event, of England b^ing engaged in war, wh,ich you would jiave if the Australian mail were carried under the United Stages flag. This is a point of immense importance. Under the 1 plan proposed by me the United ' States would' contribute to Imperial 'defence; if British ships run the service they must be protected by cruisers or withdrawn during the war. And finally, the San Francisco service is by far the best postal line for the colony as a whole. The port of call I know is a sore point* bat ,the physical configuration of the country, is responsible. lam speaking throughout of the colony as a whole, while Ihqldthat Otagoand Southland should derive very greatadvantage from the projected'service." In reply to further questions, Mr Creighton remarked that the maintenance of the San Francisco service appeared to him ' to be the only safeguard the colony had against fall^ ing under the control of the " strongest freight- . monopoly in the world — that of the direct service under the business influence of the British India Company. That was what recent development in connection with the direct service at London pointed to. For self -protection alone an independent American service should be maintained. ' In j answer tb an article in the Daily Times criticising some of the assertions made in the interview reported" above, Mr Creighton contributed' a lengthy letter to Tuesday's Daily Timeis, from which we make the following extracts :< — '• ■ > : Of! course I do not argue that you should abandon the London market. Hold on. to what you have got there. Make the most of it ; but at the same time reach out for other ■ markets and take, advantage of them when they offer. The 'consuming power of England has been reached, but the world's production is 6teadfly increasing, hence the result will be' over supply in the London market before 'many years elaprfe, and a persistent fall in prices. This is true in the case of> breadstttffs ; it will also come true of I .other food supplies in the course of time. As a. pointer in this direction, it has beep notified in the news of.' the day that the Brazilian Govern.:, menth.as, authorised, a loan, of six o,r, seven, mil-, lions ; sterling to establish an export trade in frozen mutton, having taken the hint doubtless from! your direct' steamers touching ,at Rio. Brazil will not h,e an immediate competitor, but it is cerWd to bp in 'the' field. I mention it', however, as an incident pointing to the growing competition in ' the London market ■ and the necessity for exploiting other markets as a safeguard against a general lowering of export prices.- <) " . San Francisco, merchants.took advantage of the Australasian market., to ship you California products because i there was a sale for,, them there; they did, not, import Australasian,products—fruit, butter, and cheese, &c— because you did not produce a surplus for export. My object is to induce you to increase production to a point where you can not only supply the home demand but export to England and the United States. If California importers of fruit and dairy products' could rely upon a supply of New Zealand and 'Australian commodities at - the proper season they would send their agents here and buy for export. , But you have much to do .before you reach tha.t point of production " Selfhelp " made, America. , ,If men in the United States sat down' .till trade came to them tjiey would soon go to. the wall. . They make {heir opportunities, and, this, is what I ask my old fellow colonists to dol J

I -maintain ''that it is within your power in this country iio" feed the. California' ncarkec with frnit, butter, and cheese during the winter months on the coast, and that 'better prices will be got there than in the English market ;; and I also contend that a direct fortnightly service to San Francisco will enable you to do so. If New Let me say, however,- that if you are to make, the most, of the American market, you must organise your , own "commercial agencies. You can accomplish, m'oije in thi3 way, than' by depending vp 1 on 'Ame r rican enterprise, which has divided interests, and is" not specially concerned in developing^colonial trade.' ■ • • ' '

Acttvb Skbvicb cannot waar out fctwteetti that, areibrtbtitt d*Hy witb-Howiiims' Oboireq; >11 J dentists allow.thnt neither wash** or paste* are at jjfficaoioufc for polishing the fcee^hv and keeping then, found and white as" a pure and, D'-r..ritty tooth powder;' Bu6h as Rowlands' Onowto has' always proved itself. It whitens the teeth, prevents and arrest* 'decay, strengthens the gums, and gives a .pleasing , fragrance to cbe breath. . Bowxjutds Ksshnck of Tsbb 'is a harmless ! preparation for dyeing the b»ir & permanent brown or bltok. ■ Atk chemists and storekeepers for Bewfci.KPfl' articles, of 30 Hatton , Garden, London, and »v»W spurious imitatioai. '■"