INQUIRY.

Otago Witness, Issue 1652, 21 July 1883, Page 8

INQUIRY.

THE DUNEDIN GAOL. (From Our Speoiai, Reporter.) Christohurch, July 12. The Commission held its sitting this morning at Addington Gaol. Dr Courtney Meadwell, who was examined first at his own request, stated that he had been medical officer of Addington Prison since March 1878. He did not recollect prisoner Garrett being in the Gaol. He was not very observant of exprisoners' names, and had not been in the habit of making any entries in tho surgeon's journal when prisoners were unfit for duty. If the gaoler drew his attention to a man who said he was unfit for hard labour, witness would make an entry of it if he considered the man to be unfit. He had no recollection of ever having ordered stimulants to prisoners. If he had done so the book would show it. If a prisoner were received into the Gaol suffering from delirium tremens he would not allow him to have any liquor except on his own order. Beef tea and milk in such cases wore his general prescription. This would explain an entry in the book made by him on the 6th January 1883. He saw an entry in the book on 24th March 1880, where he had ordered a man stimulants. He had forgotten that instance, but now remembered that he had ordered it for a prisoner who had been flogged. If witness had at any time ordered stimulants, an entry would be found in the surgeon'B book.

To Mr Solomon : A prison surgeon had to be constantly on his guard to prevent being imposed on. It was not at all an unusual occurrence for a prisoner to say he was ill when he was not.

Ex-warder Bateman waa next called, and in cross-examination by Mr Solomon, said he was not aware that Dr Burns visited Rogers before that prisoner had complained to witness. He might have done so during the day. Witness was only on duty at night time. The statement he had made respecting the gaoler's treatment of Rogers was quite correct. He was not aware that the gaoler had given Rogers a warm fomentation. Did (? not) know that prisoner Butler had attended to the man. The sergeant took notice at the time witness told him that Rogers was knocking, but did not make an entry of the prisoner having knocked, though witness considered this a most serious irregularity. He had not mentioned it in hia charge against the officers made to the visiting Justices, but included it in the (charges generally, and intended to bring it out when these charges were being heard. He thought he would have been examined at the inquest held on Rogers. He made no complaint to the visiting Justices of not being examined, as he had allowed the matter to go for too long a time. He did not volunteer to give evidence at the inquest, because he thought he would have been summoned or received a notice from the gaoler to attend. He never had any quarrel with Frederick on their way home. 1< rederick was not one of the quarrelling sort, and was more of a woman than a man. Witness had heard that the complaints he had made had been referred to Mr Maitland, who had recommended that witness should be discharged. He had heard this incidentally from one of the warders. When witness was suspended he was not told how long he would be so. He might have heard that he would be suspended until after the inquiry on, his case. He had sent in a petition, after his.dismissal, to the Petitions Committee. Witness said nothing about Rogers whon speaking to the Minister of Justice. He spoke to the Minister generally about the " Gaol irregularities. He had only spoken to the Minister for a few moments, and could not remember the date he saw Mr Sheehan. He had allowed the affair to slip his memory, as he thought after that time that he was altogether done with Gaol matters, and he determined to forget all about it. After taxing his memory he could remember that he saw Mr Sheehan the day before he made his charges to the visiting Justices, but had omitted to mention the irregularities about Rodgers, as he hoped to bring out the details when the case was being heard. Witness had been accused of being the author of several anonymous letters sent to the Gaol Committee, of which Mr Bowen was chairman. He had received no reply to the petition he had sent, but saw by a Wellington paper that the Committee made no report on it. He made the first official communication of Rogers having been ill-treated to Captain Hume in witness' house. Captain Hume came to his house in Christchurch, and asked him if he knew anything of the irregularities reported to have taken place in Dunedin Gaol. Witness told him he did, and Captain Hume said he would write to him. He had never before this informed the inspector that he could give any evidence respecting the Gaol. When witness was living in Dunedin he saw Captain Hume about his case, when the inspector said he would look through the papers on his return to Wellington. Captain Hume had found* witness out in Christchurcb. Witness had no communication about the inquiry with Warders M'Kelvey and Johnston in Dunedin. He knew a Major Atkinson who had been connected with the Volunteers in Dunedin. He was aware that Major Atkinson had applied for the position of gaoler in Dunedin Gaol, but had no conversation with him about the management of the Gaol. They often walked out together, as Major Atkinson knew witness had been an old soldier, and their conversation was always about matters generally. Witness would swear that he had never showed any officer in Dunedin Gaol a report he had made on irregularities which had occurred in Homo prisons. Once he had a conversation with Mr Caldwell about a report which had appeared in a Home paper of a prisoner having escaped from Hull Gaol, and witness had told Mr Caldwell that he was the warder who was in charge of the prisoner when he made his escape. Witness had been employed for six weeks as a temporary constable at the Dunediu Immigration Barracks, and could not remember having made any report on the management of the Barracks. He had left there on good terms with Mr Duke and Mrs Crawford. He might perhaps have complained about some of the food not being properly cooked, but made no serious charge whatever, Witness bad taken a

prominent part at some meetings of the unemployed held in Dunedin, and had acted aB chairman at some of those meetings. They were held not for the purpose solely of denouncing the Government, but simply for the purpose of obtaining work for the many who were out of employment, Mr Maitland's report on the charges brought by Bateman against the other warders was here read, and was to the effect that as Bateman had aJ lowed so long a time to elapse without bringing these charges before the visiting Justices no notice should be taken of them, as Bateman knew the Justices visited the Gaol every week, and must have been aware of the rule that existed that no complaint would be considered if not made within seven days. Under all the circumstances, as it was unlikely Warder Bateman could work on amicable terms with his fellow officers, he (Mr Maitland) recommended his removal from Dunedin Gaol.

To Mr Whitefoord : Was not aware that any such rule existed in the Gaol with regard to officers. He would admit that the visiting Justices visited the Gaol every week.

To Mr Solomon : Witness waa not aware of any charges against warders being heard by the visiting Justices on a Saturday. When witness reported Warder Frederick the charge was not heard on a Saturday. On that occasion Frederick was reprimanded and fined. From Mr Caldwell's conduct on several occasions witness knew he would not get a fair hearing if he complained to the visiting Justices. He lost faith in Mr Caldwell through his treatment of Rogers. Why witness did not report Warder Johnston for drunkenness on 31st July 1876 was because a senior officer was present whose duty it was to do so. Both the governor and Sergeant Flannery saw the man. Wilson had spoken of it to the sergeant. Could not swear to any particular instance when the liquor which witness saw given by Mr Caldwell to prisoners was not either given by the doctor's orders or given medicinally. During hia four years in Dunedin Gaol he could not point to any case of a prisoner having been ill-used there. Went off duty at 5 o'clock and 6 o'clock lately. Re-examined by Captain Hume : It is not usual for officers to volunteer to give evidence at inquests held on prisoners. He was at two inquests held in Dunedin on prisoners, and each time was ordered to attend by the gaoler, and, he might also say, was prompted what evidence to give. Had not complained to Major Atkinson of the management of Dunedin Gaol. Had never seen any order or rule in Dunedin Gaol to the effect that no complaint would be considered if not made within seven days — at least regarding officers, but Baw such a one regarding prisoners. After reporting Warder Frederick, the charge was heard long before seven days, and Warder Frederick had returned to duty.

To Mr Whitefoord : In the report made by witness, No. 4 charge referred to abusive and threatening language used by Mr Caldwell on July 4, 1877. It was the duty of witness to tell Mr Caldwell anything that had happened, and it was while doing so that witness referred to Rogers' case. Rogers did not die until July 7. Witness did not contemplate the man's death at the time, but he hoped, when giving evidence in support of the charge, that he would be able to bring out the treatment Rogers had received. No warder would have a right to interfere with evidence to be given at an inquest, and witness was not ordered Jto attend. Ho only complained generally to Mr Sheehan of the irregularities going on, but intended to give all the details in his written statement. The prisoners witness saw get liquor were Morrison, a wardsman, Champness, Cook, and a man named Tom, assistant cook. These men were not under the doctor's hands. They went to the gaoler's office, and caaae away when they got their " nips." To Mr Solomon : Could not say whether the men had been sent for or had gone to the office themselves, though they would not b likely to do the latter. The gaoler had often told witnesß that he kept a bottle, and that it was necessary to have detectives within the Gaol. He also told him what he gave some prisoners, giving out that he found it necessary to do this, as he often found out what warders and prisoners were doing. Often witness was kept within the office more than half an hour at a time, and would sometimes miBB making his call, when the other warder would come in to see what was the matter with him. Witness could not interrupt the governor on these occasions.

To the Chairman : The gaoler had often spoken to witness about reporting prisoners, and fault had been found with him for not doing so. Mr Caldwell had said that if he saw any of the sergeants under the influence of liquor he was to report it. Witness said what was the use of his doing bo, as when he had reported Sergeant Watson no notice was taken of it. Mr Caldwell said if he brought the sergeant before the Justices he could do nothing — his furniture would be sold up, and he (Mr Caldwell) did not really know what to do with the man. Could not positively say that Mr Caldwell had urged him to report the prisoners more than he had done. Catherine Driscoll, examined : Had been a prisoner in Dunedin Gaol. Could not say the dates she was sent there. Had been often out and in, sometimes for a long spell. , Was there after 1877 doing a sentence. One year she was nearly five months in solitary confinement. She was placed within a cell upstairs, next the doctor's room, but it was on the concrete floor, and had the sams bedclothes that she had on the female side. The witness first said Mrs Stanton and a female prisoner took out the night-can at 6 o'clock, but afterwards stated that a warder opened the cell door first thing. A prisoner would bring in soap, water, and a towel. A male prisoner also brought her brpakfast. The matron visited her after that. Witness was always up at 6 o'clock when the bell would ring. Never knocked off her clothes at night time. Once they brought her some clean clothes, but as they were wet she would not put them on, and as she felt cold she asked a male prisoner to bring her a petticoat to put on her shoulders, and he did so. She was always dressed when the wardsman came into the cell She was doing 12 months at the time. She went into the Gaol on a three months' sentence, and got 10 months. Nearly five months of that time she Bpent in solitary confinement. A matron hit her with a boot on the side of the head, and when she lifted it witness told her she had no right to do so. It was Mrs Stanton who hit her. She was charged with assaulting the assistant matron. Knew of no irregularities having occurred in the doctor's quarters. To Mr Solomon: Witness assaulted the assistant matron when she struck her. Was brought before Messrs Logan and Brown, and got solitary confinement. Kjiew of no irregularities having taken place within the debtors' prison. Witness had put her mark in Addington Gaol to a paper before the inspector and gaoler. The paper was read over to her after she had told them what to put down.

To Mr Whitefoord: She never did any scrubbing in tho men's quarters in Dunedin Gaol. She had scrubbed the debtors' quarters. She remembered two shopß there where the men used to work. She never scrubbed them, but bad. scrubbed, the guardroota out. One of

the matrons always accompanied witness, locked her in, and took her away again. Mr Solomon hoped a particular note would be taken of this statement. Witness continued : Whon she was in solitary confinement she got exercise once a day in the male portio iof the prihon. She was never put to exercise opposite the gaoler's office. To Captain Hume : When witness was struck by the assistant matron and brought before the magidtratesshe told them all about it, but they would not listen to her, and gave her solitary confinement. Warder Coneys was present when the assistant matron raised her hand to throw the boot at her. The Commissioners here adjourned, to sit again in Lyttelton Gaol. Fridat, Jtjlt 13. Christohurch, July 13. The Commission resumed its sitting in Lytteltpn Gaol this morning. The first witness called was Principal Warder Fergusson, who stated that he was a warder in the Dunedin Gaol from 1562 to the latter end ! of 1881. He had forwarded a letter to the inspector. Mr Whitefoord then read the following letter referred to, addressed to the Inspector of Prisons, and dated Lyttelton, March 22 :—: — Sir, -I re«pcc*fuly triißt that you will cause a full and exhau-t ye inquiry into tho ncent alleged punishments inflicted m the Dunedin Gaol. I, along with other officers who were in Dunedin at the lime, feel that we are under a stigma as reportß Btand at present. A^ the the majority of thaw* extra senti-nccs w.:re inflicted on the prosecution of Principal Waidt-r (•uncan, either ditvctly or indirectly, as I con-ider he was aiiswo'abSe for all punishments inflicted iv his gang, although subordinate otheer-' names appeaved as prosecuting. I therefore think this officer, having brought himself prominently to the front in thia matter, should be responsible. If a wrong has been I i.onu by a, person illiterate and of a harsh disposition, who, no douufc, waa taught to consider thiß the high roid to favour, others should not be under censure who had no sympathy with thia system, and who were of opinion that this officer was not at all a fit person to have such uncontrolled power as he held, hia experience of either work or discipline being very slight, as was shown by the fact that he entrusted prisoners with full charge of powder and blasting, the consequence beiuif that a good deal of damage was done, with narrow esca c from lo^s of life, several men getting severely hurt , with broken legs, &c. In fact this man was considered to lie far below the average intelligence and education moot warders are l upposed to possens. (Signed) H. Fkrocsson, Chief Warder. In reply to the Chairman, the witness said he was senior warder to Duncan, and was in charge of a separate party of prisoners. He had not seen prisoners entrusted with powder personally by Duncan, but knew it had been done. The reason why he had written to the inspector was that with regard to these extra sentences imposed he had been twitted by officers in Lyttelton Gaol, and also by people outside, through being a Dunedin officer, and he thought it very hard, after being 20 years in the service, when his name was not in any way mentioned during the inquiry at Dunedin, that he should be bo twitted and blamed. He was senior officer in Dunedin Gaol, and in charge of the hulk. Examined by Captain Hume : From the number of charges brought by Sergeant Duncan, witness knew that in reporting prisoners he had not u^ed sufficient judgment by his own experience of prison discipline. He had expressed this opinion to Sergeants Flannery and Macnamara, and to Warder Kearney, who was now at Lyttelton Gaol. He was found fault with one Satu p lay evening by Mr Caldwell for not reporting -aore prisoners. This happened on one occasion when Sergeant Duncan had a lot of cases before the visiting Justices, who, Mr Caldwell I said, had remarked that he (witness) could not be doing his duty in not making more reports compared with the number made by Sergeant Duncan. Witness replied that he did not intend to compete with Sergeant Duncan in this matter. Witness had heard Sergeant Duncan say that he had obtained over 20 years' extra sentences on prisoners, and that he bad done Mb duty well. Witness remarked to Duncan at the time, "Yes; you have certainly done your duty in that respect with a vengeance," Witness had told Sergeant Duncan that his reports would bring disgrace on the management of Dunedin Gaol if ever an inquiry was held. Witness had had prisoners from Sergeant Duncan's gang sent to the hulk at their own request, and after closely watching them at work, he had reported > favourably on them. Sergeant Duncan told witness it was not fair for one warder to report contrary to another, and on the following Saturday Mr Caldwell told witness it did not look well for officers to go against one another. Witness had never seen liquor given to prisoners, but had seen them in the gaoler's office, and had afterwards smelt it on them. On one occasion Mr Caldwell told him that he knew all that was going on at the hulk as well as he (witness) did. Witness told him that he knew he was carrying on the spy system, which had already proved a failure in all countries, and would prove a failure there. To Mr Whitefoord : Mr Caldwell did admit to witness that he carried on this spy system, and that he knew from warders and prisoners all that waß going on. This practice was known in the Gaol as " whistling," and the warders I and prisoners as "whistlers." Mr Caldwell only visited the hulk once while witness was in charge, and that was with the inspector. Witness was in Dunedin Gaol from 1862 to December 1881. He was in charge of the hulk for eight years, and the rest of the time in charge of various gangs. The gaoler only visited the works at the Botanic Gardens twice. Witness remembered a prisoner named Garrett in Dunedin. Garrett was treated better than the other prisoners. He was always in at the fire, and appeared to be writing some work or other. One Saturday in 1879 witness cams up to Dunedin frem the hulk, and found Garrett locked up in a coll. He only knew from hearsay why Garrett's writing was stopped. He remembered a prisoner named Butler, but he was never under witness' charge. Butler was wardsman inside, and appeared to be in the confidence of the gaoler. Witness heard Mr Caldwell say that he had more to thank Butler for than he had any warder or sergeant in Dunedin Gaol, and he always would be thankful to him. Witness heard Butler had assaulted Sergeant Macnamara, but did not see it. Mr Caldwell one day told him that if there was a trustworthy officer there who would tell him everything, he was hounded out of the place by the sergeants, and added that Bateman was going up Pine I Hill on his lonely way, and if he continued in his present career Borne trustworthy man would soon put a stop to him. Witness must say he did not think Mr Caldwell was I speaking seriously at the time. At anyrate he did not expect witness would waylay Bateman on his way home. At this time Mr Caldwell seemed very much annoyed at some statements made by Bateman. Sergeanc Duncan's gang were not the worst men in the place, as they were drafted from other gangs — some of them from witness' ; and those prisoners whom witness had found to be good men were afterwards reported by Duncan. Witness had heard Mr Caldwell say that if Sergeant Duncan bad the same class of prisoners that be (Mr Caldwell) bad been used

to, his brains would have been knocked out long ago. Sergeant Flarmery heard the romark. He had heard Mr Oaldvvell swear all round the place, damning everybody generally, but had never heard him abuse men personally. He used to work himself up on certain occasions, and these intervals seemed chronic with him. Witness had seen prisoners in the yards at dark. There was no rule as to locking them up till Mr Oaldwell had given instructions for the men to be sent to their cells, and on one of these occasions Mr Caldwell was in his office with reporters. One night witness was sent for to Mr Caldwell's office, and when he went in observed a piece of paper lying open on the governor's table. _ He was sent for to have a circular read to him concerning a new regulation made on the equalising of pay. Witness did not approve of this regulation, and said he would like to see the inspector the following day, as he had heard he was coming. Mr Caldwell told him he did not know when the inspector was coming, and knew nothing about where he was then. After leaving the office he was told by Warder Crawford that on the slip of paper seen by witness on the governor's table he had written a memo, that he (Crawford) had seen the inspector get out of the train at Duuedin. Witness saw the inspector next day. To Mr Solomon : Witness' impression was that Caldwell had read the paper, although he. had told him he did not know the inspector would come. Mr Oaldwell kept witness in town next day from the hulk, and he saw the inspector without any hindrance. That would be in 1881. Witness had had occasion to report pri» soners in Dunedin. The visiting Justices heard the reports of the prosecuting officers and prisoners, who then retired, and were called in again. Mr Solemon : Was not the prisoner's statement also heard ? Witness : Yes. Mr Solomon : Why did you not say so ? Witness : I say so now, and understood I said so. To Captain Hume: The evidence of prisoners as witnesses was objected to. A prisoner could call an officer as a witness, but not a fellow prisoner. Witness remembered several officers being discharged in 1879 on the ground, as they were told, of retrenchment. An inquiry was to be held at the time on Sergeant Watson, and witness understood that these officers' names had been sent, in to give evidence on this case. The men who were discharged were not junior officers. Witness had not Been a female prisoner on the male Bids since 1877. He used to measure the ta3kworkthat was, breaking stones, — but never allotted the same quantity to every man. Th3y could not all do the same amount. Witness considered that Sergeant Duncan was not competent to take measurements. His writing used to be handed round among the officers as a burlesque. The, Maoris had refused to work under Sergeant Duncan. Witness was at the hulk when Rogers died. He had heard of some stories being rumoured, but knew nothing about the matter personally. Witness never had seen any officer within the prison unfit for duty since 1877. To the Chairman : Prisoner Rogers was never at work in witness' gang. To Mr Solomon : He had had several conversations about Dunedin Gaol with Captain Hume while going round on his duty at Lyttelton. Captain Hume had told him to commit the purport of these conversations to writing and forward the notes to him. He had done so. (These notes were then read by the Chairman, but were contained in the evidence given by Mr Fergusaon. A reference was made therein to himself and Sergeants Flannery and Macnamara getting more work out of Erisoners with fewer reports for idleness than ergeant Duncan did with his host of reportß.) Witness' remark about the disgrace to the Gaol that would result through the extra sentences inflicted by means of Sergeant Duncan if an inquiry were held, was made long before the return was asked for in Parliament. When Sergeant Fergusson spoke to Mr Caldwell of the spy system in practice, the latter threatened to take him before the visiting Justices. He was kept one day for some time for that purpose, but nothing came of it. Examination continued : Witness could only speak of the old officers. There were one or two among them who were* called " black sheep," but as a rule the old officers worked well together. No complaint had ever been made amongst the officers at the hulk. To Mr Solomon : Mr Caldwell had given witness brandy at the hulk to give men who got wet or cold. Witness never saw any prisoner ill-treated in the Dunedin Gaol. He only saw ordinary means of restraint used. He had never made any official complaint to anyone in Dunedin Gaol. He had spoken to Mr Caldwell about Sergeant Duncan. Witness had reported men at the hulk, but latterly he had no occasion to report. He did not know whether Sergeant Duncan's reports were treated similarly to those made by witness, as he waa not present. He had never seen a female prisoner ill-used. Witness had complained to the inspector of being transferred to Ly ttelton, as he was senior officer at Dunedin. That was the subject about which he had wished to see the inspector. He never knew the Commission were going to sit in Ly ttelton until he saw it in the public prints. He knew ex- Warder Corrigan, but never considered him a trustworthy man. Witness had said he would not believe his word on oath. Cprrigan used to be got up to tell crams, and the warders looked upon nim as an old gas. He did not know whether Warders M'Kelvey and Johnston were reliable men. At the inquiry held on Sergeant Watson, witness swore he was sober. He had never seen Sergeant Watson unfit for duty. To Mr Whitefoord : Would not like to make a public charge against Corrigan, but from hia private opinion of the man he would not believe him. He did not say this from anything he had heard Corrigan swear. The "whistlers" among prisoners were billeted men. It was considered a favour to get a billet, and this would give a prisoner an opportunity of seeing everything going on inside the Gaol. Mr Solomon : Was the " whistling" first or the billeting first ? Witness : Generally when a prisoner waa found " whistling" the officers would say he was sure to get a billet. When a prisoner was seen going to the office the warders would say to each other, " There goes another man for a billet." To Mr Whitefoord : On Buch occasions tha office door would be closed, and the prisoner would be in with the gaoler sometimes for an hour at a time. This was on Sundays aa witnesß was in. the Gaol only on Sundays. There would be no one in the office at the time but the gaoler and prisoner. To Mr Solomon : A constant stream would go to the gaoler on Sundays— sometimes five or six, according to how long each ene waa kept One or two would sometimes be waiting outside. Other prisoners besides informers, no doubt, went to seethe gaoler; but from hia knowledge as an officer witness put these down as whutlers." In fact,. from what he had observed among his own men at the hulk, he i m W^ ha UV me had B° na in " whistling." To Mr Whitefoord : The prisoners wlio were 1 under witness at the bulk would go to the

gaoler without telling witness first that they wished to see Mr Caldwell. Afterwards the gaoler would tell witness that he knew everything about Hie hulk, and witness would find out that this was the case. . To Mr Solomon: It was not necessary mall oases for a prisoner to ask witness' permission to see the gaoler. Witness knew the men who were telling tales to Mr Caidwell from his knowledge of the men and from subsequent circumstances. Captain Hume wished to ask witness whether he had seen this practice of a prisoner going to the gaoler without the officer's permission since he had been stationed at Lyttelton. Mr Solomon objected to the question being put, as they were holding an inquiry into practices at Dunedin Gaol.

The Chairman said the Commissioners thought the question a fair one, to show the practice as compared with that in other gaols. Witness, in answer to the question, said that in Lyttelton Gaol when a prisoner wished to see the gaoler he was brought in, and an entry made in a book in the presence of the gaoler and senior officer. He then spoke to the gaoler. To Mr Solomon : On two occasions since witness had been in Lyttelton a prisoner had seen the gaoler by himself. They (the prisoners) said they wished to speak to the .gaoler privately, and witness on each occasion retired. He afterwards saw an entry m the book of each case. One of these occurred in Mr Phillip I *' time, and the other since Mr Oberon was gaoler. Warder Kearney was called, and stated that he was warder in Dunedin Gaol from August 1879 to March 1882. Concerning an entry in the Dunedin Gaol night-book on January 31, 1882, it was made through witness being told that he was to relieve Warder Noonan and take charge of tho cooks at 4.30 a.m. Witness saw Noonan at 7.30 the previous night, and observed that he was drunk, and Noonan remained on duty till 4.30 a.m. He was not called before the visiting Justices to give evidence in the case. On that night he saw Noonan raise his baton over Warder Frederick's head and tell him to smarten himself. Noonau was senior to Frederick. Sergeant Macnamara came up and said he would have to report the man. On another occasion he observed that Noonan smelt of drink, and Noonan told him he had had a difference with some of the warders. He had heard Principal Warder Duncan say he • had done his duty, and that the extra sentences he had caused to be inflicted would amount to 20 years' penal servitude if received by one man. He did recollect in the year 1881 that a female lunatic (he did not recollect her name, but the woman came from Palmerston or Naßeby) was put into a cell where there were two other female prisoners, whom she waß knocking about. Witness' attention was called to this woman, and he went ■ in and held her while the other women got out, and then this woman was placed in the messroom in charge of witness all night. Noonau was in the room also, but used to go out to cry 4he calls. Principal Warder Macnamara took the woman in a cab to the Asylum next morning. Witness would like to state that a warder was sent to the Asylum at 10 o'clock that -night, but they would not take the woman in. He had never seen prisoners treated differently. He never saw them get liquor. He saw .Catherine Driscoll on the male side. He remembered her being there very well. He had .seen other females on the male side. He had Been a f amale exercising in front of the gaoler's office. He could not remember her name, but •ahe was a young woman from Port Chalmers 1 who had stolen clothes. This would be during -the hour of Divine service. There were no other females with her at the time. He had seen females scrubbing out the debtors' quar- I ters. Mrs Staunton was in charge of them, and used to lock them up always. He had never seen females scrubbing out the shoemakers and tailors' shop. To Mr Solomon: Witness was in the corridor on duty when he saw Noonan drunk at 7.30 on the night of 21st January. Noonan came from the lower gaol. From the < manner Noonan spoke to Frederick, and raised the baton over his head, witness knew he must be drunk. He never aaw any prisoner ill-used in Dunedin Gaol, or any prisoner get liquor which was not ordered by the doctor. He never heard Mr Caldwell use abusive language I to any warder or prisoner. A prisoner named Thomas Hardy, alias John Smith, who said he wished to see the Commission, was brought in, and stated that he was a prisoner in Dunedin Gaol in 1879. He was there for two years and six months, and got 11 months additional. He was illtreated while there, but could not give the dates. On one occasion during the winter, when he was under the doctor's orders and had a blister over his heart, one night Chief Warder Watson and the gaoler came to him, and told him to get out of bed immediately. He said he was not able to get up, and they pulled the clothes off him. They would not allow him to put his boote on, but walked him up the stairs in his bare feet to No. 16 cell. Then they took a sick man named Rogers out of bed, made witness go into ■Rogers' bed, and took Rogers down to the call be had just left. Next morning witness was put into a small cell downstairs. His bed was taken away, and he was made to stand on the wet asphalt. He did not know the number of this small cell. (Chief Warder Fergusson : These cells are numbered 9, 10, 11, and 12.) Witness continued : It was Sergeant Watson who put him in the small cell next day. WheD he got his bed he was taken back to another cell, and Sergeant Watson came in and pulled the bed away from under him. He told the sargeant he would report him to the doctor, and that night he got his bed again. Dr Burns was attending witness at the time witness complained to the doctor about being put in a damp cell, and also complained of being put into Rogers' cell. The day after that he was compelled to go down to the Gardens to work, but had to knock off after doing half a day and tie a handkerchief round him over his heart. He was then put with another man to drag a heavy roller. Sergeant Flannery was iv charge of the men. At night he was reported for idleness, and the next Saturday was brought before the visiting Justices. He told them his complaint, and they said heartdisease ought not to keep a man from working. He was not puuished. He got his liberty, and afterwards got back again into the same Gaol, and was sent to work under Warder M'Callion. A certain number of Maoris used to be sent to the Gardens, more for pastime than work, and before witness went there the gardener missed some things out of the Gardens. Witness 1 charged M'Callion with theft, and with killing a trout and giving it to the Maoris to cook. This was in the presence of the gardener, and the gardener told M'Callion be would report him to Mr Caldwell and have him removed. Witness also reported M'Calhon to the gardener for stealing trees out of the Gardens. M'Callion threatened he would report witness that night, and witness ran away from the Gardens to the pohce-sfcation, as he hoped he would be tried at a public court. He told Sergeant Bevin that ha wanted- a public trial, and that was wby he had run away. He wats taken ick to

Gaol instead, and looked up. Next morning he Went to the closet, and was spoken to by M'Callion, when he threw his boot at him. Sergeant Macnamara then rushed in, and held witness in the closet while M'Callion— whom he had accused of theft— hammered him. They kicked him in the yard, dragged him into the cell, and kicked him again. He felt now in his hip the effects of tho kicking he had received that day. He was tried before Mr Logan. Witness wanted to make a statement why he had run away from the Gardens, but Mr Logan would not listen to him, aud at once read out an additional sentence of two mouths. He asked Mr Logan what he was sentenced for. The magistrate would not tell him, and the governor shoved him o\it o£ the office. Witness said, " Don't shove me, governor." He was taken up on the following Saturday on the same charge, and got two mare months. The gaoler shoved him out again, and witness said, "God forgive you, Caldwell : you have killed many a man in this Gaol !" He was taken up again, and got two more months. Mr Brown, another magistrate, was present at the time. Witness went into Gaol on a sentence of 11 months, and got 11 months additional. While in charge he complained to Mr Logan about a warder leaving the prisoners in the Gardens, by themselves, but never heard anything more about it. One day Warder M'Callion shoved witness in the mess! Witness was taken before the visiting Justices, and he told them if they gave him another hour's additional sentance he would never do another day's work in prison. He asked once to see the inspector, and when the inspector visited the prison witness waa taken away to a far cell in the Gaol and locked in. On another occasion when the inspector visited the prison, witness was treated in the same way.

To Mr Solomon : It was a larger cell witness was taken to when he went into Rogers' bed. It was Sergeant Watson who placed him in the imall cell. Witness was locked up after he threw the boot at M'Callion. The boot hit the warder about his clothes, and did hitn no harm.

The last witness called was Warder Matthew O'Connell, warder in Lyttelton Gaol, who stated that he knew Assistant-warder Noonan in Dunedin. He knew him for 14 years, and had corresponded with him, but not frequently. He had been in correspondence with Noonan altogether for about aix years. He knew there had been an inquiry on Noonan for drunkenness. Noonan wrote to witness asking him his advice. Witness advised him to speak candidly, and if guilty, to say so, and throw himself on the mercy of the visiting Justices. This concluded the evidence to be taken in Lyttelton, and the Commission adjourned, to sit in Wellington on Monday next.

Wellington, July 16. The Dunedin Gaol Commission commenced their sittings this morning. The following evidence was given :—: —

Andrew Cummock : I entered the Dunedin Gaol on July 7, 1879, and was transferred 5o Lyttelton in December 1882. A short time ifter I entered the Dunedin Gaol Mr Caldwell for me, and asked me if I would tell hitn vvhat transpired in the Gaol, and if I would speak in favour of any warder who might be Drought up. He promised that if I did he would make it all right for me. Warder Cashman ill-treated a Maori prisoner shortly after I was received. The Maori asked to leave the yard, and the waider pressed a key hard behind the Maori's ear. He pressed the prisoner to the fence, whore he fell, the blood spurting from his nose and ears. I was wardsman at the time. The matter was reported to Mr Caldwell, who sene for me, and asked if I had seen the affair. I told him that I had seen it, and he replied that the warder would be tried before Mr Watt, and I should be asked to give evidence as to whai; Oashman really did to the Maori. I told him I would state the truth on oath. Mr Caldwell brought the ill-traated man before Mr Logan and another visiting Justice. After I had stated that I would tell the truth, Mr Caldwell locked me up in No. 1 cell, and kept mo there during the inquiry before Mr Walt The next occasion was when I received 14 days for giving officers' bread to a Maori. I explained the matter to the visiting Justices, and told them that I had been reported through noticing Cashman, but they concluded that 1 had been guilty of a prison offence. Five or six months after this I was brought before the visiting Justices charged with being too quiet. Mr Caldwell told the visiting Justices that I contemplated escape. I was on that occasion reprimanded. I was brought up on many occasions, but my cases were not entered on the defaulter's sheet. The last case I referred to was not entered. Perhaps on the same occasion, when I was brought to the office, I was not directly punished, but I was indirectly. With regard to the charge of my having a strap in my possession, I was not allowed to call in the visiting Justices, but I was not punished. On February 25, 1882, 1 was brought before the magistiate charged with attempting to circulate false reports against the gaoler to Captain Hume, Mr Logan and Mr Brown being the Justices. I was severely reprimanded by them, and told that Captain Hume waa Inspector of Prisons, and not inspector of prisoners. On February 8 I asked to see Captain Hume, but was kept out of his way. Afterwards I was permitted to see him, but before this I saw Captain Hume, and wanted a private interview with him, but he told me that I must see him in the presence of Mr Caldwell. I then asked to be transferred, on the grounds that my family were in Dunedin, and I wished to be away, and also that I was an invalid. The application was backed by Mr Caldwell, as he said I was a thorough invalid. Subsequently Mr Caldwell opposed tho transfer. When before the Justices, I told them that I was in perfect health. On that occasion Mr Caldwell ordered me out of the office. When I asked to see the inspector on the Tuesday following, the inspector was in the Gaol, and I was locked up in the debtors' quarters with prisoner M'Coll by Cashman, whom I again told I desired to see the inspector. Next day M'Coll and I were in the warders' quarters, and from thence we saw the inspector with Mr Caldwell, but the latter afterwards said that tho inspector had not been in the Gaol that day. A few days afterwards I was charged with idleness. I told the Justices that I had seen Capt. Hume walking with Mr Caldwell. I was then debarred from seeing ray friends by Mr Caldwell, who stopped me from writing to them.

In the afternoon prisoner Cummock continued his evidence as follows : — I wrote a defonce for the prisoner Strange by order of Principal Warder Duncan. I was brought up for this, and Mr Caldwell threw me from one end of the office to the other. He shook me, and lifting me up bodily, threw me outside on to the scraper, Warder Flannery being present. On the following day Mr Caldwell talked me over, and gave me two glasses of brandy. On another occasion Mr Caldwell spoke gruffly to my wife, who was crying about the illness of my child. I told Mr Caldwell I was mistaken as to his being a gentleman. Mr Caldwell pushed my wife out of the office, seized me by the throat, shook me, and locked me up in No. 7 cell, Mr Caldwell afterwards Bent for me,

pave me liquor, and apologised. On one occasion Warder Cashman ran me across the yard by my ears, and I asked Mr Caldwell to remove me, but he would not. In May 1882 Mr Caldwell 6hook me because I said I would give evidence in a case. I was looked up, and not permitted to give evidence. On the 28th October I was charged before tho Justices with being guilty of improper conduct with female prisoners, and knowing of similar irregularities on the part of other prisoners, 1 refused to say anything to Messrs Logan and Brown, the Justices, wiUireg.ivdto tho charge. Subsequently I told M r Logan that irregularities might have taken place iv April, May, June, and July, 1881, and that the door in tho debtors' quarters waa open on one occasion for 20 minutes. I rofused to tell the Justices if any impropriety had taken place between prisoner Shannon and a female prisoner. After the inquiry I was told to put my bed in the corridor, where I waa compelled to sleep for three nights with the windows open, although I was suffering from cold. In November last I was left in a cell without being let out till after the visits of the chaplain. I was searched afterwards. Mr Caldwell wanted to put in writing what I had said £to Captain Hume, and promised to obtain mitigation. On refusing, Mr Caldwell assaulted me violently. Although very ill, I was not allowed to lie on the bed for some time. A few days after Mr Caldwell told me I was to be transferred, and offered me brandy, which I refused. Mr Caldwell thereupon aaid, " You'll regret this." I had been brought before the Justices for complaining to my friends of my treatment in Gaol, but was not punished. To Captain Hume : I was brought before the Justices a fortnight after my reception for sitting down in the Supreme Court, and for scheming on the night of my conviction. I was reprimanded. 1 objected to Mr Logan doaling with me because he was a committeeman of the Athenaeum. Prisoner Gray was sick, and fell in the yard. Warder Flannery picked him up, and he fell. Mr Caldwell rushed out, and ordered him to be removed. He was dragged up the yard. I called out "shame," and was brought before Mr Caldwell, who shook me, but not to hurt me. My father and mother were prevented from seeing me. I had often seen females sent to the office, not always with the matron. Sometimes they went without the matrons through the officers' quarters. Maggie Duncan was locked in an upstairs room, and I have seen the gaoler go upstairs and into her room without the mation. Mr Caldwell visited a woman named Ingles in the same room in the debtors' quartern. Warders have also passed women up to the same room. I knew the prisoner Thoreby, who, whenever he got into trouble, received additional sentences. (Prisoner here described impropriety he had witnessed between a male and female' prisoner in Dunedin Gaol.) Female prisoners were employed in scrubbing the men's quarters, being in charge of officers who took little heed of them. I never saw the matron or assistant in charge of them while scrubbing. On one occasion I saw Warder Cashman behaving improperly with a female prisoner. The armoury was not locked. When I cleaned the place the arms were loaded. After complaining to Captain Hume in February 1882 I was still worse treated. In fact Mr Oaldwell and his subordinates did their utmost to kill me.

To Mr Solomon : I never complained to the doctor of my ill-treatment at the handa of Mi 1 Caldwell.

The inquiry was here adjourned till Wednesday morning.