[By Electric Telegraph.]

Otago Witness, Issue 1242, 18 September 1875, Page 8

[By Electric Telegraph.]

Wellington, September 9fch. In the Legislative Council, Mr Waterhouse gave notice that he would move for a return showing the moneys advanced to companies under the Immigration and Public Works Act

Mr Ngatata moved for copies of documents showing the authority under which the Crown grant to Native land at Porirua was issued to the Bishop of New Zealand for educational purposes.

Order ef the day No. 1. — Consideration of message No. 4 from His Excellency, transmitting the following propesed amendment in the Southland Waste Lands Bill : — In clause 3, to omit all words of the clause to «• unsurveyed" in line two, and insert "Whenever the Board shall hereafter receive an application for the purchase o\ any" in lieu thereof. In lme 7of same clause to omit " the land " and insert "such land" in lieu thereof. In line 10 of same clause, after "shall" to insert "alter such refusal."

The amendments were carried.

The following Bills were read a third time and passed without discussion : — Oamaru Water Works Bill, Nelson City Loan Bill, Oampbelltown Athenaeum Bill, Plans ot Towns Regulation Bills. The Goldfields Act Amendment Bill passed through Committee, and the third reading is order of the day for to-morrow. The Wellington Harbour Keserves Sales Bill went into Committee, and the further consideration fixed for that day week. The Council adjourned till Tuesday.

Upon resuming at 7.30 laat evening, the House went into committee upon the Christchurch District Drainage Bill. Mr Stout suggested that the second clause should be amended by leaving out all prrvisions respecting plurality of voting, which he objected to as wrong in principle. Mr Richardson hoped the member for Caversham would try his experiments upon some Bill of his own district. This Bill was drawn up in consonance with the wishes of the people of Chris tchurch. Several members spoke against the amendment,

Mr Stout demanded a division, which resuited in three voting for the amendment, and 34 against it. Mr Stout, Sir G. Grey, and Mr G. M'Lean voting for the amendment.

The Bill was reported without amendments, and third reading postponed for that day week.

Mr Sheehan moved the second readiog of the Highway Boards Empowering Act Amendment Bill.— ("No.") His principal desire was to enable the people to increase the rating upon the annual value of property. Mr Andrew moved that the Bill be read that day six months, but was negatived, and the Bill wa3 read a second time, and ordered to be committed that day week. Mr Bunny moved the second reading of the Wellington Toll-gate Bill. A good deal of objection was taken to the third clausp, which gave the Bill a retrospective character.

ivlr Bunny said that would bs amended. The Bill was read a second time.

The Kakanui Harbour Board Bill was passed.

The Oamaru Town Hall and Gas Works Bill was passed through Committee. The Timaru Corporation Waterworks Bill was read a third time and passed. Tue House adjourned at 12.30. la the House of Representatives, at 2.30 to-day, Sir Geo. Grey presented a petition from Auckland signed by 1250 persons against the immediate passing of the Abolition Bill He said tbere were 600 signatures still to come.

.... , August 10th. When the House met at 7.30 last evening, Mr Sheehan resumed the debate, and after speaking for half-an-hour without int'oducing any new matter of argument, was succeeded by Mr Fitzherbert, who spoke in so low a tone as to^be almost inaudible, giving hi 3 reason for this that he intended to husband his resources, and indicated that he was going to speak for a considerable length of time. The honourable member said he felt like one about to take a long and tedious journey, one that might probably last for four months; he intended, so long as his strength and intellect lasted, and as often as the forms of the House permitted, to move that the Chairman report progress, so as by every means in his power to obstruct the passing of the Bill through Committee. The honourable member, in replying to a question, was informed by the Chairman that the honourable member might speak a number of times and as long as he liked. In such case he would ask how long it would take to decide a question which embraced the whole Colony. Although he intended to oppose the Bill in all its stages, he was not opposed to a change. He thought a great change necessary, but the Government were too hasty. Changes should be made after due consideration. If proposals of the Government were good the more they saw light of day —the more they were diseussad — the more perfeot they would become, and the more they would meet the approval of the country. If, on the other hand, the Government forced tbe measures at once, they would cause universal dissatisfaction. Mr Fitzherbert began at 8 and finished at 11.20. Mr Montgomery next rosa and said members should ,not forget they were there to do their duty as representatives of the whole Colony. He thought that fact ot the Government having given notice of other Bills, they should nave brought them forward, and their not having done so had strengthened the hands of the Opposition. The whole policy of the Government should be before the House. The honourable member suggested the insertion of a clause in the Bill that it should not come into operation until after the next meeting of the Legislature ; that no new contracts should be «n*wed into by the Provinci*! Government* *wwttbownfiwfcef tMcvernwiat; fat

no Ordinances of the Provincial Councils should become law without the assent of the Government ; also, that all clauses up to clause 4 of the Abolition Bill should be postponed.

Mr J. E. Brown suggested that clause 2— time when the Act is to come into operationshould be postponed till the rest of the Bill had gone through Committee ; also that the time (90 days) in clause 4 be left blank. Sir Donald M'Lean said that, he Committee were willing to pass clauses till they came to those referred to by tho last two speakers, the Government would be ] treasured to consider their proposition, or any which they recognised as being made in a fair and reasonable spirit. Mr Gibbs said no doubt the Bill was not perfect, but urged that the Committee should endeavour to improve it, and if when it came out of Committee it was not such as he could approve, he would join the Opposition in endeavouring to prevent it becoming law. Let us all, said the honourable gentleman, work all together here in Committee, to make this measure suitable to the requirements of the country. At present they were simply wasting the time of the country. They were sent there to pass laws for its order and good Government, and what had they done during all the time they had been in session? Mr O'Neill, referring to the petition presented by Sir George Grey against abolition, a,nd after pointing out that his constituency were as numerous as those in the town of Auckland, exclusive of the suburbs, read a tetter tothe Chairman of a public meeting at Tairua, in which a resolution was passed ap' proving of immediate abolition. Also, a telegram from Corornandel, reporting a very lar"e meeting, in which abolition was approved, but reference to the constituents w -,s recommended, as tending to strengthen the hands of those in favour of abolition. At the Thames, the meet ing recommended that the Abolition Bill be passed as soon as possible. Mr Swanson recommended an adjournment to give the Government an opportunity to state what course of action might be practicable. He did not see -why all the concessions should be from the Opposition, who held strong views on the subject, and their views and wishes ought to be consulted. If, after such consultation, no agreement between the Government and the Opposition could be arrived at, why then the contest must be fought out to the bitter end. > Mr Reader Wood said he intended to stay till eight to-morrow morning, when he- would be relieved till 2.30, then another relief till 5 50 and so on till the Opposition gained their point. Opposition would keep on these tactics till the present Parliament had died by effluxion of tome. They (the Opposition) were acting in ascordance with the wishes of the people ; the Government were acting in opposition to the of the people. The Opposition con eidered it their duty, however painfnl, to t i ™ Me ' and the y wer e determined the Bill should not pass during the present session. All they asked was that it should be referred to the country. The honourable member pointed out that in four months a new Parliament could be called together to discuss this question. The honourable member asked the indulgence of the House as, for the first time in big experience, he had risen to speak when he had really nothing to say. All that could be said on their side of the House had been said. After intimating that he would continue to speak against time, he blamed the Government for obstructing the business of the House by forcing the W, The Opposition were determined that no further should the Bill go, that no clause should be passed. The Opposition were a small but determined band, >as Government would find

Mr Stout followed, in support of reporting progress. The honourable member read copious extracts from -works on tho federation of the United States, a form of government of which the speaker highly approved. After an hour and a-half, during which no light was thrown on the subject, he retired for a quarter of an hour. Mr Stout observed that he had several points yet to touch upon, and was left speaking at 3 a.m., the House not rising till 6.30 a.m.

Upon the House resuming at 2 this afternoon, J Mr Ward proceeded to speak. j About 2.20, the Sergeatit-at- Arras took the mace away from under the Committee table. Mr Sheehan at once raised a point of order, and a sharp discussion followed, which, at halfpast 2, was t>ut short by the entrance of Mr Speaker, who took the chair and opened the House with prayer. Mr Brandon and Mr Stout raised a point of order that the Speaker, taking the chair, was ' irregular. Air O'Korke ruled the proceedings quite valid, and the House was in Committee. Mr Brandon and Mr Fitzherbert contended that under the circumstances there was no Chairman of Committee,

The Speaker explained that he took the proper course, and the only one that could possibly be taken. The House, if in doubt, could call upon the ruling of the Chairman of Committee, or ask the Speaker to take the chair. Mr JRollestqn pointed oufc how the action of the Speaker interposed in the presenting of petitions. Mr Fitzherbert said the only way to settle the question waa to move the Speaker take the Chair.

Mr Sheehan maintained it was a breach of privilege that progress had not been resorted, as the sitting was continuous. Mr O'Korke ruled the Committee was sitting constitutionally. Along and warm discussion ensued, m the course of which Mr O'Rorke twice again ruled that the proceedings had been perfectly # regular, and that the House was properly in Committee ; but Mr Eeid and Mr Bunny strongly insisted on the view that, in consequence of the irregularity, the present proceedings were invalid, and even if they at once passed the Abolition Bill through all its stages, it would not.be of any avail, £ a ll their subsequent proceedings had been vitiated. The only way out of the difficulty was for the Speaker to take the chair. Mr O'Rorke explained that the Speaker could not reverse any decision given by the tKSr* ° ommlttce BVen lf Ssd resume Jkfik? i^ We 3& clte iss toßtan « to »kow that the Speaker could override the decision of tbe Chairman of Committee. « TO "*"« "* Mr O'Korke: That is when he has doubts, but I have none upon this point. ' The question was then put that prom-ess b'a affi¥ nd * divlaloa fc * k<m «KSS?B Mr Stout said in order to give the Govern, ment supporters something Fo doh« 3d move that the ChaWn leaVthu cLfr "KS BSSSBF*****- -"ASS succumb in the end, The rules \# P««fi y J Mr nm wwtw to kW *h#s mv *&4 &>

rible tactics were to be put in motion against the Opposition. Major Atkinson said it seemed that any unusual tactics came from the Opposition, who considered that one third of the House should do as they chose with the majority. Notwithstanding all the threats of the Opposition that the Bill would not be advanced a stage it had been advanced, and would continue to be advanced, and he made no doubt passed after some weeks. He thought a month of sittings like List night would be as much as the Oppositioneared about. They would soon see whether 23 members who composed the Opposition, or 46 who sujjported the Government measure, rpally expressed the views of the country. If the minority were determined to obstruct the business of the House, the majority must take steps to protect" themselves. The hon. member suggested that those members of the House who considered the proceedings now irregular or illegal had better go home. Let the remainder of the House pass this Bill, and those who had doubts could afterwards test its validity in a court of law. The Speaker observed, in reference to the point of order, that he thought it desirable he should inform the House that possibly to-moi-row, or at any rate at some future time, and from time to time, he should think ii his duty totake the chair as Speaker, and take cS^isel with the House on certain matters on which his ruling may be required. MrFitzherbert'niade a few remarks on th!« intimation, and animadverted on supposed threats by certain members on the Government side.

Mr Bunny said that though there was a majority against them in the House, they assu redly had a majority with them in the country. The Opposition will not be beat by the Government ; on the contrary, they will be in better condition «it the end of the month than now. If, however, tbe Government will meet the Opposition in a conciliatory spirit, and, if concessions were made on both sides, the Opposition would assist in passingsuch a measure, even this session, as will meet the requirements of the country, which the present Bill does not. Instead of abolishing the Provinces, it retains all the worst features of the present Provincial institutions. Mr Stout denied that the Opposition were speaking 1 against time last night. Mr Swanson began talking about 4.30, and kept it up till 5.20, when the House rose. The House resumed at 7.30 this evening, when Mr Swanson continued his remarks for about 10 minutes, when Mr Murray took up the discussion, and interspersed his speech with letters and extracts from newspapers, and upon request read one letter regarding Hauraki bush twice over. At 10 minutes past 8 , Mr Bunny said something to Mr Murray, who cut short his remarks, and Major Atkinson moved that progress be reported. "It was agreed to. The Native Minister then said it was desirable that the present state of tilings should be terminated, as certain proposals had been made to the Government by the Opposition regarding the question at issue. He would move that the House adjourn till Tuesday next, when the Government would consider these proposals, a.nd he hoped that by that time they should all meet in better temper. The motion was agreed to. It is understood tbit a meeting of Government supporters will be held to-morrow, and that the proposals of the Opposition will then be submitted and considered.

_ _ September 11th. The Evening IW gives the following as the negotiation between the Government and the Opposition :— : The proposals of the Opposition are :— The Governor is not to consent to the passing of the BiJl except on the following terms: Admitting that the principle of abolition has been affirmed' by fche House of Representatives, the Bill is to be proceeded with in a fair spirit of discussion, so as to render it as j perfect a meaeure as possible, provided that a clause shall be inserted providing that the Act shall only come • into • operation on a resolution to that effect being passed by both Houee3 of the Legislature in the next session of the new Parliament. It is also agreed that such arrangements shall be made as shall satisfy the Colonial Government that no undue advantage will be taken of the position in the meantime by the Provincial Legislatures. Tho Alinisters replied to those by sub* mitting the following counter proposals of the Government :— (I.) That the Abolition Bill be passed this session, with a pUjJrision that it should only take effeot on a day to be named by proclamation of the Governot, but that no such proclamation shall issue should a resolution of either House of Legislature to the contrary be introduced within one month after the meeting of the new, Parliament and passed before the close of the session. (2.) That Provincial administration shall continue until the Act is bo proclaimed that the appropriation for departmental purposes shall be continued by the Assembly at the present rates. That public works already authorued by the Provincial Councils rshall be undertaken, but that no Provincial Council shall mjaet again unless the Act i-ipse. The reply of the Opposition was s—" This last sentence we cannot of ourselves entertain, but will oonsnlt thereon these gentlemen we are acting with. At the same time, we submit other proposals to them . which we will undertake and recommend for their adoption, and we will at once communicate with you."

At caucus meetings to-day, there was a caucus on each side. Forty seven members attended that of the Government. In the proposals of the Government, Mr Stafford 1 pointed out that the word "either 11 (printed in italics) was an insult to the Legislative Council which certainly would be reseated. 7 «£ m .?», aß aa»«nendment, thtt the word both" be substituted. On this there was a great deal of discussion. Ultimately the matter dropped, and a resolution to the fol. lowing effect was carried almost unani* moasly :—"That this party cannot assent to the proposals of the Opposition, but authorise the Government to consider iay other proposal the Oppositipn may make with a vjow to arriving at* a satisfactory understanding. The Opposition caucus were unanimous ia leaving the negotiations in the hands of Sir George Grey, Messrs Fiteherbert, Kolleston, and Macandrew. j It is expected on understanding will be come to before the House meets on Tuesday.

w . « .. . September 13fch. sso definite forma of compromise have as yet been agreed to between the Government and the Opposition. The Ministers tod tariff* of th« Opposition, meet at f e'dwl

September 14th. In the legislative Council, The Auckland Improvement Bill was passed. ■ Dr Menzies asked Dr Pollen whether the public vaccinators have been appointed in all oistricts appointed under sections 91 of the Public Health Act, 1872. Dr Pollen replied in the affirmative. Mr Waterhousc moved for a return of moneys which had been advanced, and subsidies granted to private Companies, under the goldfields clauses of the Immigration and Public Works* Acts, such return to specify the amount advanced, or granted, to each Company, and extent to which the obligations imposed by the Government in making such grant or advance, have bwn fulfilled. Agreed to. Tne iroltlnelds Act Amendment Bill was read a third time and passed. t The Kakanni Harbour Board Bill, and Timaru Municipal Council Empowering and Waterworks Bill, were read a second time. The House met at 2.30 to-day. Mr Steward brought up the report of the Reporting Debates Committee, which was read. Attached to the report was a uiemoranlum from the Government printer, stating the printing of members' speeches us -supplements, though not expensive, was rather incon Venient if many demands were made in that direction, and would seriously retard the print ing of Hansard, unless more type were procured. Major Atkinson gave notice to ask leave to Introduce another Imprest Supply Bill. Major Atkinson moved the postponement of the Abolition of Provinces Bill till to morrow, at half -past 2. Agreed to. The House moved into committee, and the Treasurer asked that a sum not exceeding £250,000 be granted to Her Majesty in addition to the amount already granted. The Bill was ordered to be reported to-morrow. There was no Ministerial statement made regarding the arrangements pending between Government and the Opposition. Mr Basatian asked the Postmaster-General if the Government will make provision for a mail service to Gore and Mataura, the railway being now open to that township ; also, if it is the intention of the Government to make provision at an early date for telegraph communication being opened to the township of Gore and Mataura. Mr Reynolds said arrangements had been made by which a daily service was to have been commenced yesterday. He was not aware, however, whether the service bad then commenced. The second question was answered in the affirmative. The Oamaru Gas Works Bill was passed. The Hawkes Bay Volunteers Grant Bill was discharged, at the request of the Native Minister, who intimated that the claims for Which the Bill was intended would be better met another way, The second reading of the Fraudulent Debtors Bill, Bills of Sale Bill, Stamp Fee Bill, were reported with amendments. Mr Bowen moved the second reading of the Marriage Act Amendment BilL Mr Stout asked if the Government would sot insert a provision to enable the Resident Magistrate to marry, and also to allow the Registrar-General to license anyperson to marry, because there were many persons in the Colony belonging tp sects whose religious officiatora were not entitled to be called reverend, and he thought it desirable they should lie placed Upon the same footing as regarded celebrating marriages, as gentlemen who were called everend. The House went into Committee on the Electric Telegraph BilL Clauses Ito ID were passed without alteration. Clause 20, " Privileged communications conveyed by telegraph not to be deemed maliciously published." Mr Stout moved that the clause be omitted. He held that a libellous telegram passing through the telegraph office was virtually published by the fact of the operators being aware of the contents. Mr Fyke took the aamo view. There was nothing but a sense of honour to prevent telegraph operators from divulging what came voder their notice. They were not boimd by oath or otherwise not to divulge. Mr Murray supported the clause. Mr Fitzherbert said the secrecy of telegrams Was a subject which required the best attention of the Government, because the public, he thought, had some right to complain of the secrecy of their messages not having been respected as it should have been. Mr Reynolds was not aware of such a thing. Re thought the secrecy of the telegraph department was as rigidly observed as it was well possible to be. That, and subsequent clauses were passed passed without amendment, and the Bill passed. Mr Bowen mored the second reading of the Stamp Duties Act without comment, having introduced the Bill to the House previously. Mr Murray said the Bill was a device to raise revenue under the guise of supplying a public convenience. He objected especially to the stamps upon mortgages. Mr George M'Lean also took objection to that provision, though he agreed with the Bill tt a whole. Mr Yon der Hyde said that if the Bill was hofc intended to raise revenue, there were several impositions which ought to be dispensed with. Mr Stout suggested that a schedule should be printed, showing any variations on the old law «s compared with the present BilL This would facilitate the consideration of the Bill in Cora* toittee. Mr .*owen agreed with the suggestion. The other objections taken were matters for consideration in Committee. The Bin was read a second time. The Native Minuter at 5.30 moved the adjournment of the House till 2.30 to-morrow, as there was little business upon the Order Paper. Agreed to, and the House adjourned. ■ j -♦»...« September 15th. In the Legislative Council to-day, Mr Man. ten moved it be an instruction to the Disqualification Act Infringement Committee to inquire -and report upon the question whether a member of this Council, holding an honorary appointment under the Executive Government, ■can receive any travelling allowances or free passages whilst travelling on the duties of his honorary appointment, without contravention of tiie Disqualification Act— Carried. ji 5$ nw * v Boards Empowering Bill, to adjust difference between Road Boards, was read a second time, and ordered to be comafctf* next day. The Bill will be general in application. The Kakanui Harbour Board Bill was passed through Committee without amendment, and «**» third time, and passed. TheTunara Municipal Council Empowering :an ?L Wat EWOE W01 ' k8 Bm WM P*»ed through Committoe. The preamble having been amended, the third reading was fixed for Friday. In the Houje of Representatives, at 2.30, Mr Steward aiked whether the Marine D* pwtment proposes to take steps to guard tgliwt mmm during the day dm kvewifc.

passing along the coast of Otago, between Oaniaruand Poit Chalmers, by marking the position of the reef off Moeraki, known as the Fish Keef, by means of bell-buoys or floatin" beacons, and when the proposed lighthouse at Moeraki will be available as a beacon and guide for vessels passing this portion of the coast at night. Mr Reynolds said the position of the reef was well laid down, and in ordinary weather any navigator ought to be able to give it a wide berth. There was no doubt it was a dangerous reef in thick weather. The Government intended to erect a lighthouse at Moerald, so that any vessel in passing could take the bearin-' and so avoid the reef. As soon as the money was voted no time would be lost in proceedin" with the work. . °

The following 1 motions by Mr O'JVTeil were agreed to, in as far as the information required could be supp'ied :— -That reports of various Boards of Health laid upon the table during the present session be printed. That returns laid before the House showing the quantity and value of coal imported into Xew Zealand from Ist July, 1873, to 30th June, 1875, giving locality whence imported, the port where discharged, be supplemented by a return snowing the quantity of the coal imported annually from 30th June, 1870, to 30th June, 1875. For return of the names of all persons who have been drowned in any river or stream in New Zealand, from 30th Juiie, 1870, to 30th June last, giving the name of such river or stream, and of the Province in which it is situated, in continuation of a return ordered on the motion of Mr Stafford for the names of all persons drowned in any river or stream in New Zealand from Ist January, 1840, to 30th June, 1870. For a return showing the number of mining accidents in New Zealand, specifying the localities, from the date of discovery of gold in 1857 to the 30th June last. Return to show the number of yearly accidents, the causes, as far as is known, verdicts, inquests, and any general remarks, together with the names of persons killed, whether married or single, and the number of widows and children of persons so killed ; and that, in continuation, there shall be laid before the House each session a yearly return of all mining accidents. Sir Donald M'Lean, after announcing that the Abolition Bill would be postponed until tomorrow at half-past 2, stated that in adjourning the House on Friday evening last, it was done in consequence of having received a proposition from the Opposition members in reference to the Abolition Bill and other matters before the House. That led to several interviews between the Government and members of the Opposition. The result of which was that it had been agreed that the Abolition Bill should pass the House that session, and that the Bill should be considered entirely upon its merits, and without offering any unreasonable opposition to its main principle. It was agreed that the Bill should come into operation one day after the close of the first session of the new Parliament. That was the concession made by the Government, and he believed honourable members acting with the Government would find that the principle of the Bill would be fully affirmed, and the Bill duly placed upon the Statute Book. The Government had insisted upon that, and it had been complied with. Upon the question if, when the Bill should be brought into operation, they had met the views of the Opposition so far as to allow the Bill not to become law before the day named, and with regard to the discussion between the Government and the leaders of the Opposition, he was glad to state it had been conducted in a way that evinced a desire to expedite the business of the country, and he hoped all future business would be conducted in ft like manner, as they had. a great deal to do before the session ended. He hoped results arrived at would meet the general concurrence of the House. — (General applause.) Sir George Grey concuored in substance with the statement ot the Native Minister. He •wished to add, however, that, personally, he was not able to act in the matter with those with whom, upon all other subjects, he was united. But the agreement having been come to, he would do his best to give effect to the views expressed. For himself, he could not altogether concur or acquiesce in the course taken. He was, however, able to stale that the Opposition would faithfully carry out the arrangements, and the arrangements which had been made he should in no way interfere, object, or embarrass. Mr Sheehan moved that the report of the Native Affairs Committee, on the petitior of certain Natives of Hauraki district, having reference to restrictions on the sale of land to Maoris' representatives, and the neglect to place Maoris on the jury list be now taken into consideration. He wished to ace some law of general application that there should not be restrictions in regard to one tribe while others had no such restrictions imposed. With regard to the # latter part of the motion, he thought that, if the special representatives now granted to the Natives were not increased to something like a fair proportion to a race who numbered at least 50,000, it might be found the better plan to place them at once upon an equality with the rest of her Majesty's subjects in regard to voting at elections and serving upon juries. The Native Minister said the Government fwlly recognised the importance of the matters referred to. The question, however, was too large to introduce any change in the Native land laws this session. No doubt there had been a great deal of dissatisfaction amongst the Natives on this very question. Much of this, however, was due to the works of Europeans, who, for interested motives, made the iSatives discontented. The Act of 1873, he thought, met a great many of the objections, and he thought it should be left to its operation until there was a greater necessity for change than at present. The question of representation in the House was forced upon the Government. It was because there was a special need for it at the time, and it could not be made otherwise than exceptional. The Government went in the direction of seeing the Natives fully and fairly represented, and it was with that view they encouraged in everyway the education of the Native youth. The present Maori Representation Act expired in 1877, and he hoped by that time the Natives would be able to send to the House representatives who could address them in the English language. With rezard to juries, the 147 th clause of the Act of 1808 provided for Maoris serving upon juries, and they had done so in some instances. Mr Takamoana hoped the House alone would deal with the matter, and not leave it to the Native Minister. Mr Katene urged that the petition should be referred to the Government. In reply to a question from Sir George Grey, The Native Minister said that when the Government had considered the question of Natives sitting on juries he would inform the House what action they proposed to take.

Mr Taiaroa was very much dissatisfied with the present representation given to the Maoris. He nad moved for obtaining more, but the House took no notice of him. In fact, he could see little use in the Maoris being in the House. For his own part he did not intend to come back next Parliament, and he hoped no other representative would. Why did not Government bring in their Bill at once if they had on», not postpone ft till »wt nwjon i $9 jje

should think they were working for the extinction of the Native race.

Mr Stout moved— l. That in the opinion of the House the most de&irable and profitable way to dispose of the waste Lands of the Crown is by a leasing system. 2. That the Government should, during the recess, prepare a^ Bill to give effect to the above resolution. This question might at present be considered a theoretical one, but he felt the day was not far distant when it would become a most pressing one indeed. Although many might consider it Utopian, he had no doubt a party would gradually arise who would advocate the principle. The hon. gentleman referred the House to a number of eminent modern thinkers, who, whatever their differences, all agreed in that theory — that a nation should not part with its lauds. The question had evei\ been brought up in the Otago Provincial Council, and the motion was defeated only by 18 to 15. In Victoria, too, some of the ablest men voted in favour of it. Men who, like Grant and Higinbotham, had made the subject a special study. At present, a single individual could buy up all the land in a citj 1 - or district, and by right of property could prevent anyone residing there,_ just the same as wholesale evictions were possible in Scotland and Ireland. Looking at the question from a point of expediency, lie thought the position of this Colonj' was strongly in favour of the theory he advanced, as would be seen by the great value the lands of the Colony would reach in course of time. The principle was not new, tv, it seemed the theory was carried out in practice by granting reserves to Education Boards, Harbour Boards, Municipalities, and other social bodies, to re tain these lauds in their hands for the purpose of future profit. The honourable gentleman quotedfrom Stuart Mill, M'Donald, and claimed to show the wisdom of the State owning the land. Taking this Colony, they saw the State, by making a railway near a person's land, increasing the value of that land fourfold, without the owner having done anything to make his land more valuable. It might be urged that the principle was opposed to industry and enterprise, but it did not do that, for men would have wealth and everythiug open to them that could he got by exertion excepting the ownership of the soil, which he coiild not create. Grey, who was a great political writer, certainly urged with all his weight that the best men should enjoy the land, but experience had shown that the best men did not enjoy the land, and that monopoly had nothing to do with raising a race of clever men. He agreed with Emerson, who, saying that an Englishman born with a nice comfortable living as an inheritance rarely developed into an intellectual light. So long as they believed in the existing practice they could not comp'ain at the wholesale evictions which took place in Scotland and Ireland. It had been urged that if you destroyed the freehold system of land agriculture would languish, as men would not display the same earnestness in improving the land that they would if it was. their own property; but the facts were against that. Nations had been built up and agriculture developed under the tenant system, and at the present day, in the lowlands of Scotland, where some of the very best f arming was carried on, farmers were all tenants. If the system of only leasing the land were introduced into this Colony, we could do without taxatio*i altogether. If the runs were placed in the market open to the whole people, the purely pastoral runs might be made to yield a quarter of a million rent yearly. The premiums now paid to squatters showed they were at a ridiculously low rental. He estimated that the vast tracts in Otago, partly pastoral and partly agricultural, ought to realise another L 150,000 yearly. Ap plying the same calculations to the rest of the Colony, there would be such a revenue derived that the Treasurer would absolutely not know what to do with the mouey. Take it from another point of view : Ought the Colony to be expending its millions for the benefit and creation of a capitalist class. While recognising the usefulness of capitalists, he contended the Colony was at present going in the wrong direction. We left Europe iv the hope of coming to a country where the evils of the Old Country did not exist ; but what was the fact? In Canterbury, which was held up aa a model in the way of dealing with its lands, he could mention several instances where one individual owned miles of land in one block. Those who thought that when the land was sold the laud question would be disposed of were entirely mistaken. That would be one of the firat things to lead to an agitation on the land question. Even in America, whose lands might be thought illimitable, the question was assuming great importance, and ere long it must be a leading one amontrst American politicians. It was urged as a difficulty against this scheme that the State could not resume possession of lands already sold. But he saw no obstacle to that that could not be overcome. In bringing forward this question, he did ao only from the desire that the question should be brought under the notice of the people, with the hope that the next _ Parliament would fake the matter up and initiate a system which would prevent the ( ruinous taxation now before them. Had the originator of the great scheme they were now carrying out made the same provision for a rise in the price of land consequent on the execution of public works, he would have placed his scheme upon a comprehensive and statesmanlike basis. If the Colony would hut take the lead in the matter, it would not only be setting a good example to older councils in a great social question, mit would get rid of all her financial difficulties, and initiate a new theory of Government in the system of progress such as had not heretofore been seen.

Mr Bowen hoped the motion would hn withdrawn, because it would be impossible for the Government to introduce legislation upon such a many-sided question. Although political economy proposed to regard the greatest happiness of the greatest number, yet the science, which was comparatively new, neglected many features in the problem that were essential to human happiness ; such, for instance, as the sentimental side. They must look to the attractions which brought the people here from the overcrowded countries of the old world, and one of the strongest instincts was a desire to possess a piece of the soil, and make a home for themselves and families. While admitting the great want of the eminent men quoted by the member for Caversham, it must not be forgotten they were pioneers of thought. They were men feeling their way in diiforent branches of the political science, and who, though they often step forward here and there, had as often to retrace their steps. They no doubt did great good, but it would be rash to follow them at once, wherever they led, until their theories were endorsed by the experience of the world. For instance, Herbert bpencer wondered how constituencies would be so foolish as to send lawyers into the House of Commons aa their representatives. Another point was the danger of creating a dead level and limiting the ambition of men. Our ambi«on ought to be, give all a fair start. We should not say you shall reach so far, and no tarther. As to the owners reaping an advantage by the expenditure of Government money in railways, &c and so increasing private laud, or property, he thought it was practically impossible to prevent persons reaping benefit trow m WertioiM Qt Qtfrjr people, Thousands

of instances of this must be seen in all the workings of industry and commerce. There was no doubt that there were conditions which would justify the State in stepping in in the interest and for the happiness of the greatest number, but he feared that if such a scheme as that promised were introduced, a perpetual agitation would follow, which would lead to a running sore in the conflict that would ensue between those who were fortunate enough to be occupants of Crown lands aud those who were not". The honourable member held out a dazzling lU-ospect of the surplus weolth of the Colonial Treasury, but to him that appeared to be rather an evil than otherwise. Jt would be better to have the Treasurer to come to the tax-payer for money if he wanted it. The money would come out of the people's pocket in some way, though it might not be quite apparent, and it would be more in accordance with their ideas that they should find the money. Mrßallauce thought the question of such importance as to call for considerable discussion. He therefore moved tho debate be adjourned till Wednesday next. Mr Steward moved that the interim report of the Reporting Debates Committee, presented on. the 14th inst. be taken into consideration. TLe Committee, having gone into the matter, saw only two courses opeu to them : either to make the practice general, and make provision accordingly; or else prevent a few members from having an undue advantage over others. And they had no reason to alter their decision. The debate was cut short at 5.30.