Saturday, Jan. 10th.

Otago Witness, Issue 1155, 17 January 1874, Page 7

Saturday, Jan. 10th.

The fii'3t witness called was the first mate —

Abraham Foreshaw, who said : F am chief officer of the ship Surat. 1 handed in the other day my certificate as master. [ hold no other certificate} either oE competency or of service. I joined tho ship in London about fifteen days before she sailed, and superintended the loading of the greater part of the cargo. There was no cargo in the ship but a little iron when 1 joined her. The cargo consisted of railway plant and general goods. I have no idea whatever of the value of the cargo. I have no knowledge whether the ship was or was not insured. I kept the log-book. I produce a statement which was served upon me by Sergeaut Shury. After leaving Gravesend we Tiael si very Hue weather passage throughout. We had three compasses : they worked very well till wo got towards the Cape. After that there was considerable 'difference in them. Two of the compasses were on deck, ono on the sky-light. The deviation of tho compasses was considerable ; they did not correspond, and the needle used to hang sometimes. We were perfectly well aware of thia beforo our arrival on the coast of New Zealand. We had taken means to prevent it as much as possible. We arrived on the coast of New Zealand on the 31sb of December, sighting Sbewarb's Island — the first laud we saw— at 2 p.m. We had expected to see the Traps, but they were covepea with mist. I do &ot kaow what

part of Stewart's Island we first saw ; it was the south-west end. (Witness here referred to the chart and said it was the South Cape). He continued : We passed to the northward of both the Traps. The captain had taken bearings previously, and had marked the ship's position on the chart. At noon we were about 18 or 20 miles off Stewart's Island. When passing along the coast between Stewart's Island and the Traps, we kept about nine miles off the land. The first land mark we recognised and distinguished by means of the chart was Buapuke Island. We were about seven miles off it at the time. It was bearing W. N.W. Our course at the time was N.E. by E. IE. Our rate of sailing at the time was about nine miles an hour. It was about seven o'clock in the evening when we saw Ruapuke Island. On sighting that island we did not alter our course ; we still kept on the same. At 8 o'clock we saw Dog Island light. We took the bearings ef it. It was bearing W. by N. It was distant about 22 miles. We saw it from the poop-deck.

The log-book was now produced. Mr Haggitt (looking at the log-book) : I see you have not made up your log-book up to the time of sighting land. Witness : I have been accustomed to make it up every day at noon. I made up the entries to noon of the 31st. The remaining things to be entered in the log 1 had written down on my slate. Mr Haggitfc : Where is your slate ? Witness : Down at the bottom I suppose.

Witness continued : I saw the Dog Light bearing W. by N. I took the bearings myself. At 8 o'clock my watch terminated. I was succeeded by the second officer, who came on deck and relieved me. When I speak of time I refer to the time kept on board ship, and not to New Zealand mean time. I do not know the amount of difference between the two.

It was pointed out that New Zealand mean time was Christchurdi time, and that the ship's time was that of 20 miles south of Stewart's Island, the ship's time being, the witness explained, corrected at noon every dxy. Witness said ib was corrected at noon on the 31st — the noon of the day on which tho ship struck.

Mr Haggitt said his object in eliciting this fact was to clear up what had beeu said, namely, that it got dark at 7.30 in the evening, and got light at 1.30 a.m. Witness : A few minutes after the second mate came on deck, I went below. The course the ship was steering was then N. E. by E. .1 E. There is a pencil cross on the chart, nearly opposite Slope Point, which shows what I believe to have been the ship's position at the time when the second mate relieved me. The captain made the cross on the chart. We could see the land of the coast of the Middle Island as Avell as the Dog Light. We saw it but indistinctly, as there Avas haze crver it. I cannot say what part of tho Middle Island Aye saw. What we saAV Avas high laud. The land which a\'o could see was on the port boAV. I had got my bearings and distance from Dog Island, and had seen the ship's position fixed on the chart, bat Avith the information I had I did not attempt at the time to form an opinion as to what the particular part of the coast I saw on my p°rt bow Avas. I kneAv merely it was part of the south coast of the Middle Island. I did not, aft or going beloAV, again return to the deck before the vessel touched. I was in my oath cabin the Avhole of the time I was below before the A'essel touched. The doctor Avas in my cabin shortly after I Avent beloAV. He remained with me about ten minutes. We Avere sitting chatting. At the end of the ten nainute-t he left me and went to the (.'abin. I might have boen alone about twenty minutes. At the end of that time I felb the shock.

Mr Haggitt expressed surprise at the shock coming on so soon. Witness here explained that it was ten or fifteen minutes after his watch term ended before he was relieved by the second mate ; that it would be rive minutes more before he wpnt below. The doctor came into his cabin ton or fifteen minutes after — that was what he meant by shortly after. Witness had been making up his log on the slate Tho shock he felt Avas that of the vessel touching.

Tae various estimations of time given by the witness were added up, and he, after considering, made out that it was, as nearly as ho could calculate, about from 9 to 9.15 that, he had felt tho shock.

Witness resumed : I ran out of my cabin on to the main dock, and found the captain on deck. [ took my proper position on the main deck, repeated the captain's orders, and saw them carried out. The first order was to " square in the after yards," in order to back the ship off. That was done. While we were in the act of squaring in the cross jack yard, the ship slid off the rock. The ship touched five times. We wero_ at the braces when she edged off. The ship's way was not entirely stopped by going on the rock. The ship in going off the rocks, canted off to the KS. E. We were running with the wind. The wind was just abaft the beam. The canting off the rock in that way wtis the effect of squaring the cro'S-jack yard. The next order •was to call the carpenter to tho pumps, the next to haul up the main sail and cIeAV up all the topgallant sails. The next order was to back tho main yard, and it was dove and the ship hove-to. All these orders were executed. It was about an hour and a half before all the orders were given and executed. The orders to haul up the main sail and clew up the topgallant sails wore given about 20 minutes after the crossjack yard was squared, the next, that to back the main yard, which caused the ship to heave«to, wap given About an, hour ft»d » half after pha

struck. "When the crossjack yard was squared in, the ship fell off three or four points, and I «onsidered she was heading towards the E.S.E., that is, if the course had been kept that I gave the second officer ; but I did not see any compass at all. At the end of the hour and the half, when we hove-to, we went to work at the pumps. Before we went to work at the pumps, I saw the soundings taken by the carpenter. I think the first soundings were taken five to six minutes after the vessel struck. There was not more than five inches on the rod then. The carpenter remained at them continually keeping soundings. The next soundings I saw were about an hour after. There were then 20 inches. The pumps were working then. Only one was working. The pump working then was the port pump. We tried to work the starboard pump, but it would not work. The engine-driver and I went down to see if we could find out the cause of the starboard pump not working, and we concluded that the pump-ease had burst with the shock, as the boxe3 were in j>erfect order. Ido not know that the shock was at the port side. Supposing it to be on the port side, I do not know why it did not damage the port pump and not the starboard one. [ do not know what stopped it from working ; but as a fact, it would not work. I had not examined this pump for a considerable time before the occurrence further than seeing that soundings were taken every day. The pumps were never worked whilst 1 was in the ship until this occasion. There was no water in the ship. That fact was noted down every day on my log. The sounding rods sometimes showed an inch or an inch and a half when the vessel was upright. Sometimes none was shown at all. The ship on the voyage out, prior to striking, made no water. We were about an hour trying to get the starboard pump to work. During that time the port pump was being worked except for short intervals when we required to stop it in order to pour water down the starboard pump to try to get the latter to work. We poured a good number of buckets down the starboard pump, but nothing like the quantity we pumped out of the port pump. I could nob exactly say how long the port pump was stopped altogether ; that is, T cannot add up the length of the number of times it stopped, as I was away at other duties. The port pump was continuously at work from the time there were 20 inches of water in the ship, and others were working the tire engine down below. The continuous working of the pumps was from about an hour after the vessel struck. I did not notice the rate at which it increased after this time. The carpenter's reports of tho soundings were sent to the captain. The captain did not consult with ipp upon the carpenter's reports at the time. The next time I heard the quantity of water in the ship was> about one o'clock, which wits about three and a half hours after she struck. I went down to the pump, and found there was then nearly four feet of water in the hold. _Pumping had been going on continuously. I did not take any more soundings. Those were the last soundings I saw. The captain did not consult me this time. I had as much as I could do to obey his orders. He consulted me subsequently. Shortly after 1 o'clock ho consulted me as to the state of the vessel. We consulted on the | poop. 1 reported to tho captain at this time that there were nearly four feet of water in the hold, that the water was gaining on us fast, ami he ordered me to square the ship away. We squared away at once. He did not consult me as to the best course to adopt. He did not ask luy advice ; he merely gave me orders. At the same time he ordered me to square away, he also gave me orders to get the boats out. I proceeded to do so. The captaiu'b gig, in being turned over off the stage, was injured. The long boat wis injured in being lowered. Tey were pitched up, lowered, and put into the water. All the boats were put into the water, six in all. The second mate superintended the lowering at tlie after end, and I at the other. In getting the long boat out everything was confusion. Some of the crew would not obey my orders, and I left the deck.

Mr Haggitt : Do you think it was a proper tiling for you to do ?

Witness : When I found I would not be obeytd, I did so.

Mr Haggitt : Did you speak to the captain ? Witness : Yes. .Before leaving the deck I was on the poop and spoke to the captain. I told the captain that they — I mean some of the erew — would not obey me in getting tho lonj-boat out, and that 1 was going below. T dm't remember whit ho said, or whether he gave me an answer or not.

llv Jlagqibt : Did the captain attempt to support your authority in any way? IVibness : t was so excited at tbc time tint I merely spoke and went off the poop. I did not return to the deck again until the cii')fcain was going to leave tho ship. That wits after she was beached. 1 cannot say what was going on during the time I was below. Pievious to the time of my leaving the deck, I had been drinking a little. I had boen drinking gin. I was, in my own judgment, sober when I loft the deck. I had not bien drinking previous to the ship striking. I had not drunk a drop. 1 <pt the gin that I drank before I left the deck "for good" from the captain the day previous. He gave me a bottle of it. I drank it in my owu cabin, and some of tho passengers were in my cabin and saw mo <|rink it. I drank two glasses. My cabin is outside the saloon. "Whilst I was in my {abin on the night tho ship struck, and before the ship struck, I could hear tho sound fl voices from the cabin, but could not distinguish what was said. I can only say from hearsay who were in the cabin, but I Jsnow there wera five ox Bix persons in there,

Before the doctor left me I heard the captain go into the saloon with some passengers. I could hear male and female voices. This was a very few minutes before the ship struck. The captain had not that I am aware of been going backwards and forwards to the saloon, previously. The captain was on the poop giving orders when I got up after she struck — he had got out of the saloon before I got out of my room. I did not notice anything out of the common in the captain's manner. The orders were given distinctly and properly. At the time I reported to the captain that there were four feet of water in the hold there was not, so far as I could see, anything the matter with the captain. He showed no signs of drink up to the time that I left the deck. The captain gave me the bottle of gin on the day pieviously, because I asked him for it. He always gave spirits to me when I asked him. I had only asked him once or twice. I can't say whether the spirits were ship's stores or his own property. It came as a present from the captain. The spirits were kept in the lazarette under the floor of the cabin. I know when the cable was bent on to the anchor. I gave the order. I had men about the deck getting it ready at the time that other men were getting the long-boat out. I had previous to the ship striking, received orders from the captain to get the anchor ready on the following morning, and I repeated his orders to the second mate, as it would have to be done in his watch in the morning. I had been on the coast of New Zealand before. I had never been on the coast of the Middle Island previously. The ship had no chart of the coast that 1 am aware of, but the one produced. The weather was hazy and showery. The night was cloudy as the showers passed along. It was dark when the vessel struck. There was a moon, but it was obscured ; there was a shower on at the time.

Mr Haggitt : I ask you, was it a proper thing to do, in a vessel like yours, carrying a large number of passengers, with no other knowledge than that afforded by the chart, to bring your vessel into soundings on such a night ?

Witness was understood to say that he could give no opinion.

Mr Haggibfc : You are a master mariner, and as a master mariner you should give an opinion.

Witness : As a master mariner, I should have done the same thing if I had been in charge. I should have stood as we &tood at S o'clock. I considered it perfectly safe when [ lef b the deck to keep the vessel going as she was.

Mr Haggitt : Can you say where she went ashore ?

Witness : Somewhere near the Brothers.

Mr Haggitt : When the vessel struck, and you ran on deck, could you see the land ?

Witnev=is : When 1 ran on deck, 1 did not look for land.

Mr llaggiit : Why do you think she went ashore at the Brothers ?

Witness : From the distance we could have gone. Mr Strode : It is a guess ? Witness : It is only a guess. Mr Haggitt : If the time the vessel struck was from a quarter to ten to ten o'clock, instead of nine nr a quarter-past nine, on what point would you then i-txy you struck '' Witness : 1 cannot say exactly where the vessel struck, because I did not see the land. The only position 1 am certain of is the position oi the vessel at eight o'clock. If she did not strike on the Brothers, the next projecting point would be Chasliind's Mistake. Supposing we had been fifteen miles from Dog Island at eight o'clock, instead of twenty-two miles as we supposed, the course we bteered would have put us close to the Brothers at ten o'clock-— about a mile or a mile and a half off the Brothers. There ara no soundings shown on our chart within miles of the Brothers. Had we gone ashore in an hour — that'is, at niue o'clock instead of about ten o'clock — we niu&t have gone ashore at Slope Point, and not on the Brothers. Before going below, after the vessel struck, 7 threatened to use firearms to some of tho crew for disobeying my orders in the matter of getting at the longboat. I had an axe in my hand for the purpose of cutting away the rigging to get at the boat. I do not remember having threatened any of the men with the axe. 1 was so much excited at the time that I formed no opinion as to the safety or otherwise of the vessel. When I reported to the captain that there were four feet of water in the hold, I thought wo could save tho lives of the passengers and crew by getting into smooth water, and letting go tho anchor. 1 was afr.nd the vessel would not keep alloat.

Mr Haggitt : If, three hours after you reported three foot of water in the hold, you found the water still gaining upon you, and there being six feet of water in the hold, would you, as a master mariner, have sought assistance from a passing steamer ?

Witness : 1 might have asked assistance. Mr Haggitt : Not knowiug the coast yourself, would you not more especially on that account have asked assistance from the steamer ?

Witness : If there was time 1 would. But in this ease delay was daugerous, 1 should think.

Mr Haggitt : Where waa the greater danger in delaying for the steamer than ia going on ? Witness : By going on wo would get the vessel on the beach.

Mr Haggitt : Supposing you did not know of a boaoh — supposing you Avere ignorant of the beach — as you were in this instance? Witness : It was coming daylight, and if I saw there was too much water in the vessel to wait for the steamer, I would go on, li

there was time to wait for the steamer, of course I would have signalled her. Mr Haggitt : In a vessel with four feet of water in the hold, and the water increasing upon you, would you or would you not have taken advantage of, or attempted to obtain assistance from, any passing steamer or vessel ? , . Witness : Yes ; with four feet of water in the hold I would have taken advantage of a steamer or vessel.— ln answer to further questions, the witness went on to say : I slaved on board the vessel all night with two seamen, at Catlin's Bay. I volunteered to stay. I took no soundings around the vessel. I only got some things ready for sending ashore in the morning. There was a strong breeze when the vessel was beached. I was below at the time. By Captain Thomson: The deviation in the north-east point of the compass after we rounded the Cape of Good Hope was a point and a quarter easterly. That was about the deviation oe the night we struck. Observations were taken almost every day to determine the deviation of the compass. The deviation on the E. by N. point ou the night •we struck was about a couple of degrees. I could not say exactly. When we took the observation of the Dog Island Light, W. by N. was the bearing by the standard compass. The deviation on that point was about a point easterly, I think. When we took the observation of the light there was no other point of the land to be seen distinctly to enable us to take a cross bearing. Finding that we had nothing to determine our position accurately except Dog Island, the next best thing was to have taken a cast of the lead. The carpenter went down to the bed of the pumps, but he could not find out what was the matter with the starboard pump. The pumps were iron ones. We had no bilge pumps — only the two m.tin pumps. James Leys, master of the steamer Wallabi, stated : 1 just returned this morning from the wreck of ths Surat. I have noticed the windows in the stern of the ship. They are round ports. They are whole. I was m the saloon, and also in the after-cabin. There is no appearance of water in the stern of the vessel. The cushions and carpets are all dry. They had been removed before I arrived there ; but when I examined the places where they had been I found there had been no water there. A diver has been breaking the cargo out. I was aboard all yesterday. We are getting the cargo out through the hatches. 1 could form no opinion as to the quantity of water in the hold. lam well acquainted with the coast from Catlin's River to Waipapapa Point. 1 know Ohasland's Mistake. There are no outlying rocks off Chasland's Mistake. There is one small rock inside Chasland's ; but it is oub of water. A vessel could not strike on the other side Chasland 3 Mistake without rubbing her sides against it. If she were going end on, her boom would be the first to strike. I know the Brothers. They are outlying rocks. There is a small rock on the inner side of the Brothers ; but it is partly out of water, just awash. Jt is quite close to the Brothers. A vessel would get quite alongside before she would strike ; they are almost as steep as Chasland's Mistake. 1 know the coast off Slope Point. There is a very foul bottom off there. I have seen it breaking out there for a distance of three miles in heavy weather— -in ordinary weather about a mile and a-half. There is a foul bottom off Waipapapa Point. The reef runs out some distance. There are patches of rock all the way between Slope and Waipapapa Points, extending from 150 to 200 yards from the shore. I know the Dog island light, b rom the poop of a vessel, 18 feet from the level j of the water, you could see the Dog Island light from a distance of about 23 miles on a clear night. On a thick night, with passing showers, it might be seen off Kuapuke Island, that is to say, about ten or twelve miles. I am along the coast every week. It gets dark in the neighbourhood of Dog fslaiid about 31st December about half-past eight or nine o'clock; The daylight is not out of the sky at nine o'clock. In cloudy weather it would get dark sooner— it would then be q>»ite dark at nine o'clock. The state of the weather might make so much as 30 minutes' difference in the time of its getting dark. * . Cross-examined by Mr btout : I noticed the cabin windows were shut. I looked through two of the four windows. All the labourers wore on board when I went there, The stern of the vessel is towa <ls the sea, and it is quite possiblo they may have closed the windows. On the morning thu passengers were taken on board the sea was breaking slichtly over the poop at high water. I would swear from my inspection yesterday that no water had been in the lockers. Ino Biiloon hud never been wet except by the water from the hold. I could not tell from my inspection yesterday what was the state of tke saloon on January lsb but I would say from what I saw, that there had been no > water in the after part of the saloon. I was not directed by anyone to look particularly at the windows or anything else ; 1 just had a general look round. I had no idea of coming here to give evidence. I only saw four lights in the stern. I noticed no lights in the side. If there were any in the sirlo, they were covered up. It is possible there maybe such thing* au -reefs in the neighbour* hood, unknown to mariners, but 1 have been pretty close to Chasland's Mistake und the Brothers. My vessel, the Wallabi, is of li"ht draught— about seven feet. It is not bo" very long ago since the Hydra Uook was discovered, and it has never been seen since. It was known that the rocks were there bofore the " South Australian" was wrecked. It was not laid down in tho chart. To Mr Haggitt : On the 31st December jfc jrould b»ve been hi^h tM« ftt Dog Ipla»d at

about seven o'clock in the evening, from six ; to seven o'clock. There would be little difference between there and the Brothers, not half an hour. It would be later. If the water had beeu breaking in at the stern window of the cabin of the Surat it would have left marks that would have remained for some time. Things would, in such a case, remain damp for a considerable time, but I saw no signs of damp in the saloon. To Captain Thomson : I have been master of a" New Zealand vessel for thirteen years about. I have been plying between j the Bluff and Dunedin constantly for the last two years, and have been passing to and fro for some years before this time. _ The vessels I was in were of iron — that is the steamers, I was much more watchful over my compass in iron vessels than in wooden vessels. I have left the bridge of the steamer I have commanded after passing Slope Point, but not before. The land is sometimes very clear, more so than at other times. The land is fine and clear with a I north-west dry wind. On the 31st of December last I was at the Bluff with my vessel. ■ I could not say what sort of weather there was between eight and ten that night. I was at Invercargill, and it was clear there but showery. I have had occasion to take soundings on the coast from time to time, and found them very correct according to the chart, between Dog Island and the Bluff. • Thomas John Tighe deposed : I was doctor of the ship Surat. lam a surgeon and physiciau. I recollect seeing Dog Island light on the night of the 31st of December. I saw a light reported as Dog Island light at about halt-past 8 o'clock, I should suppose. My watch had been broken in the previous gale of wind, and there was no clock in the cabin. The captain directed my attention to the light. I was engaged at the time it was discovered, and had not gone up to look at it. The light when I saw it was off the port quarter. I should not be able to judge the distance the light was from the vessel. I don't think my opinion could be very good on the subject. The captain or officers did not tell me how far the light was off. As well as I can remember, I went into the saloon after I saw the light, and then went to my room for something. I then went to the hospital between decks. I remained in the hospital about ten minutes or so ; I could not exactly say. I then went to the chief officer's cabin, where he tried to explain to me the position of the ship and how far we were off. We had no chart there. _ He was telling me the position of the ship, but I cannot remember exactly what he told me. I remained in his cabin about five or ten minutes, and there I heard the captain ask some one into the saloon. Before this the mate made some remarks to the effect, as well as I cau remember, that the captain was asking some woman in, and I had better go in. I went into the saloon, and there I found the captain, Mrs Underwood, Mrs Edmunds, and Mrs Mullinger. The captain had induced them to have some wine, and he asked me to go into the after cabin to bring the wine to him. I did so. The wine was put on the table. Mrs Edmunds said she would prefer gin, if I remember rightly. Some gin was brought and placed before Mrs Edmunds. I think all the other women poured out some port wine. 1 did not take particular notice what the captain had. While they were in the act of helping thomselves to liquor, the vessel struck. T did not notice the captain taking anything, 1 think the captain was sober at the time. When the ship struck, 1 made some remark about a rock, and rushed on deck, followed by the captain. "When 1 got on deck, I saw the second mate standing on the port side of the poop. I don't know whether 1 spoke to him. I think he was trying to go down when she struck, for he was near the top of the steps. When I got on deck, 1 looked forward and saw laid off tlio port bow. It seemed to be close, but I could not say how far it was off, It did not seem to be high land, but appeared to slope gradually towards the water. This was the impression it made on me at the time. The night at that time was not particularly dark. 1 t°was not a moonlight night. There was a shower of rain shortly after the ship struck. When I lirst went on deck I did not notice any rain. I speak of the time after the ship struck. When the captain followed ms up on deck, [ heard him give some orders which were attended to. After the first bump, the vessel made thiee or four bumps when she struck, and tho last one was ihe heaviest of tho lot ; and after t'ais she appeared stationary for a momcit, Then the ship appeared to «et off. I was on the poop after this, and I heard the captain give some orders, but I cannot say what they were. L asked the captain if I should go and have the after hatch oponcd, and gDt the single girls up. Ho made some remaik —that I should not bother him — or aoraiithing of that kind ; but 1 will not swear what. He gave me no decisive answer, and I thirls he said ho had too much to do. That was all the conversation I had with him at the time. When I left the tirst officer, shortly bet'oie the ship struck, ho was sober. I had no opportunity of judging whether the seconl officer was drunk or sober previous to thp ship striking. L only saw him for a minut* after. Whon the ship got oft' the rocks, she was run out to sea, and then she was hove-to, From the time she struck until she was hove to, I should say half-an-hour elapsed, but 1 did not take any particular notice of the time. I hoard the pumps commenced. During thia time I was helping to hand up ropes, and when the order was given to send tho single women up, 1 had the hatch oponcd, and sa^ them go into the saloon. When I returned to the deck, I saw the well sounded, and heard several reports with ro* ferenoe to tho depth of water in the well, and a great many pf the pjngty women fciptQQ,

and they were sent below. Some of the men were mustered by the chief officer for pumping. I saw this. This was after the pumping had been commenced, and from three quarters of an hour to an hour after the ship struck. I noticed the mate then, and at that thne_ I thought he was sober. I remember seeing the smoke of a steamer about one hour or so after daylight. The steamer was ahead, and coming towards us. We could only see the smoke at first, so she must have been a great distance away. In another hour we could make her hull out. She was then coming up on the land side of us. I should say about ten miles ahead of us. No attempt was made to signal her until she had passed from abreast of us, and had got more on our quarter. As she was coming down on us between our port bow and the land, the passengers wanted to signal her. I should say she was ten or twelve miles off then. The passengers were greatly rejoiced when they saw the steamer coming down, and thought she was coming to us. The passengers asked the captain to signal the steamer. They asked me when I was within a few feet of the captain. This was in the captain's hearing. The captain, as far as I remember, gave orders that no signals were to be put up without his orders. The women were up on the poop waving their shawls as the steamer came abreast of us. Nothing was said to these women that I can remember. I saw the ensign hoisted, but it was not allowed to remain up. Ido not know who ordered it to be pulled down. I heard " Old Sails," the sailmaker, as he passed me on the poop, asking about the signal of distress. Some one went down for it. Ido not know who went down for it. I do not know who ordered the signal to be hoisted up or down the first time. The captain ordered it to be hoisted the second time. The interval between the time of the signal being hauled down to being hoisted again could not have been more than ten minuees. I saw the captain at this time. When the flag was hoisted the caytain was in a state of intoxication. I saw the first officer at about the same time, but I remember him better a little while after, when we were getting out the long-boat. This was an hour alter the signal was hoisted. Before the ensign was hoisted tbe second time the steamer had passed us. We were then three or four miles away. I should say the steamer was never nearer than three miles to the Surat. When the ensign was hoisted the second time the captain was not sober, I heard an order given to hoist the ensign the second time by the captain. Before the steamer got past us I believe the boat on the starboard side of the poop had been lowered. The second mate was in this boat. At that particular time I did not take any particular notice of the second mate. Ido not remember speaking to him at all after the steamer had passed. I remember Mr Booth, one of the cabin passengers, waved his hand at the second mate, and said something about going after the steamer. The second mate did go after the steamer. I went to the captain after the steamer had passed, and asked him about getting the passengers landed. He made a reply once, and said I was not to be foolish, or something of the sort. I do not know who was in charge of the deck at the time the steamer passed. I remember the steward being at the helm of the vessel when the steamer passed, and for some time. 1 asked the captain several times about getting the passengers landed, seeing that the ship was in danger of sinking. 1 could not get any satisfaction from the captain, and I asked the mate to speak to him. The mate did so, but I got no answer. After this I went forward and looked clown the lower hatch, and saw the water was coming up over the coal, showing that tho vessel must have been very deep in the water. I could see the water washing over the coal, which was covered. Then I went on the forecastle, and found some of the sailors were making some attempts to got out the longboat. The passengers were helping, and they called on me to give assistance. I believe I was asked if I would take charge of the longboat. They had got a statement from one of the passengers who had sounded the well, and they did not believe that the ship would survive long. I helped them to. launch the boat. While we were doing tltfs, the chief mate came up, and said that if we wanted to get out the? boat, we should have to cut away two of the lanyards of the rigging. This was done, nnd the mate then gave other directions to launch the boat. As the boat was being got out, there was <a bell in the way. One of the men tried to knock the bell away. The chief mate then camo up and asked how they dared do this. Tlje mate then asked the sail-maker how he dared launch the boat without the captain's order. After this the mate got out over the outside of the rigging with a hatchet, and threatened to cut down some of the men who were trying to launch tho boat. The hatchet was ultimately taken from the mute, by whom I cannot swear. Once the mate held the hatchet in a threatening attitude. 1 expect he was going to strike a man. I think one of the crew named Phillips took away the h.itchet from tho mate. The first mate was not sober at this time. After this he disappeared, and I did not sco him until after 1 came back to the ship in the long-boat. When the long-boat was hanging over the side I got into her with Bridges and some others. Shu was stove in, bub the hole in her was repaired before she touched the water, when she was manned and detached from the ship* Then the first thing done was to fill the boat wibh women and children. I cannot say how many there were, a.a there wae great confusion On,e woman jumped from tho forcastle hw4 on, to my shoulder?, and the children.

were let down with ropeß. When the boat wafi full we got her away from the side of the ship. There were only two oars that wouldpull in the boat, as the thole-pins were not all there. We got astern of the ship about three-quarters of a mile. We got part of the sail up in the boat and a blanket, so as to catch the breeze. The second mate passed us in his boat. There was a breeze. The sail brought us along, and we shipped the oars. We sailed up after the ship to look for a landing place, for where we had drifted there was nothing but cliffs. As we came up to the ship, which had got round the corner of an island, I thought I heard her grate as if she had got aground again. It might have been her anchor let go. The captain ordered us alongside the ship, and we went alongside. I went on board. There was a revolver presented at the boat at the time, and I went on board to see the captain and send the passengers ashore. When the boat came alongside, the captain presented a revolver. I was near the bow of the boat, and I thought at the time it was presented at me. I could not well tell who it was presented ai When I went on board, I experienced the bumping of the ship as she bumped upon the rocks. While I was there, there was bumping now and then, and the sailmaker told me to stand on one side, as the masts might come out. There was someone at the wheel at the time. When I left, she was still bumping. I should think the vessel is pretty nearly in the same position now as she was at the time I left her. When I went on board from the long-boat, I do not know who had charge of the ship, but 1 suppose the oaptain had.

To Mr Stout : After I came out of the long-boat, I waited on board the Surat until tho last boat load of passengers left. I went ashore in that. I was on board from half to three-quarters of an hour. The captain left about an hour after I did. When I left the. ship, the captain was not sober. He waa then not quite so bad as he had been during the morning. His manner was different before, and his movements were queer. I mean that his manner was different to what it had been previously on the voyage. I noticed the manner in which the captain walked about with his hands in his pockets, When I asked him to land the passengers he never gave me a decided answer, and did not appear to take any interest in the matter. 1 heard the captain give an order countermanding one the first mate had jusfc given. Then the first mate gave the same order as the captain. If the captain had landed, and a stranger saw him, the stranger would have been able to see that he was intoxicated. If a stranger did not observe it» it would not affect my opinion on the subject. 1 cannot say that I heard the captain give any absurd order connected with the working of the ship. Ido not consider myself competent to judge whether an order of this kind would be absurd or not. When I was on the long boat the men obeyed my orders. There were seamen in the boat. I don't consider that I know more about seafaring than they. I sat just the same as any of tho other passengers, A sailor named Mersey had the rudder. When the steamer passed the Surat it was about an hour after daylight. I cannot fix the hour, I said that the captain was not sober at this time. He was walking to and fro on tho poop. This was at the time the ensign was hoisted for the second time. The captain was doing nothing particular. While I was at tea I often saw tho captain walking up and down the poop. It was the captain's mode of giving commands that made me consider him intoxicated. He <lid not give them in the same manner as usual. His manner was not so cleoided as before. I also judged from his general appearance. If the captain had sworn that he had taken liquor, but that he perfectly understood all he was doing, I would contradict him. When the passengers were pumping, they came aud asked me for some stimulant. I thought proper to ask the captain first. He had his hands in his pockets, and his face flushed, and gave me no answtjr. He was on the main deck afc the time. I then gave the men who had been pumping some liquor myself. I should consider myself the best judgo as to whether a man required stimulants, lieing a dootor. T took notice of the way tho captain stood on the deck. I cannot give any other particular instance of his cowluct. I should consider a man drunk when lie was not cap<v ble of taking chavge of himself, or whon ho has taken so much stimulant that it acts detrimentally on his nervous centres. If 1 saw a man take two glasses of whisky, ami then walk down the street without doing anything improper, I couUl not say whether he was drunk or not. If I saw a man with his face Hushed, I would not say whether ho was drunk ov aot. When a man is drunk he is in a state of intoxication. In my opinion, "intoxication" and "not sober" mean the same thing, and aro synonymous tonns. I decline to answer what I understand by the word " drunk " when you use it. I will not say whether I draw any distinction between the word "drunk" and the word "not sober." Mr Stout called on the Bench to compel wituess to answer the question. Mr Strode : He has never used the word " drunk. " He may answer if ho likes. Mr Stout : I wilt ask that this ruling of the Bench may appear in the deposition. My reason for asking the question is evident. The matter does not end here, and the depositions will have to go before the- Board of Trade, _ . Mr Stmte : The ruling of the Bench can go down if you like. Ido not compel him to answer, as he has never used the word "drunk."

(For continuation ate pags 11, J