HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Otago Witness, Issue 921, 24 July 1869, Page 18

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

1 (Hansard— J une -17th.')'. ' ;,- • MINERS BEPBESENTATION ACT AMENDMENT Mr Swan, in moving theisecond reading of tliis Bill, said it was not his intention to detain the House at any great length, consideline' the important debate that was proceeding. As to the claim he' made on behalf of the miners of New Zealand, he •would say that it was the natural right of th se who contributed a very large amount of taxation to the expense of the country to be represented in some measure in •proportion to that taxation. He had taken the trouble to go through the statements of accounts of the colony since the year 1,860, and he found that, at the close of the financial year 1860, the ordi. nary revenue of the colony was L 202.007 believed that, in 1861, when the goldfields first broke out in Ofcago,, the revenue had increased to nearly L 230.000. A. very large increase had taken place in succeeding years until the close of the financial year 1867, when the ordinary revenue of the colony was L 1.024,613. He had carefully compared the revenue of the several provinces, and he found that the largest increase of Customs revenue was from those provinces in which goldfields had been dis&*veMd, namely. Otago, Canterbury, and Nelson. For 1862, 1863, and 1864, there waa a very large increase of revenue from the province of Auckland, caused by the immense Imperial and colonial expenditure on account of the war, bub he believed the increase of the revenue of the colony had been maiuly earned by the discovery of gold. That; being the case, and considering that the Superintendents of province*, elected as they are by popular vote, were, by law, the holers of the delegation from the Governor for tb.B ad Ministration of the goldfields, he wmit L contend that the miners had a perfect ri'ht to vote in the election of those who h I<l th it deleg ition. The nvners not only contributed totho Cu3tomn revenue, which wis m,unly taken for the support of the provine sin wh eh the goldfielda existed, but they contributed a special taxation whi h was by law appropriated to the purposes of the l'o cl fields. He knew he should be met xvilh the argument, that it would be throwin / thj election of Superintendents of proviucoa into the hands of a class of in-n who would naturally vote very no-i'ly » 11 ono wa y 5 but he believed tint that was only a fancy objection. He was prepared to stand up for th-i rights of the miners even should the result 'be us anticipated. He wished also to declaim, on the present ocewion, being actuated by any party motives in having introduced that Bill. Ha might say that before he left Auckland some 2000 miners hid sent in their claims to the right of votin" at the election of the Sup.'rinten-d.-ut. arid that a parson named Gallaoner, who' was perfectly unknown on the Ti.araes, had objected to 'some hundreds of those cUinis. He observed by the last ■n m-rs received that a meeting had b»en h^ld Mlfie Thames goldfield, and that steps had b'on taken to bring the claims before the U-vising Officer, in order to have the names pi iced on the electoral roll for the next .lection That was a wrong position in which to i-lacfi the people of the poldfields He did not th.nk it necessary that he should tnke up tho time of tho House any longor. He did mot believe that tho Bill would pa«s sub silwfh. and ho should be prepared to answer any objections that inithfc be taken to it. Mr Curtis wished to move, by way of anwiriKU-nt, that the Bill be road a S iml Mmc tbafc day six months. The hono. rabl- member had spoken of tho immon™ imp^tance of tho mining in. 3 thTcolonJ'- «* be. °f.?i »f ' nn d c *.th him in the option ft Tno U r of vory great importance. Th /> jible member, however, seemed t '' "> r g ot that that interest had also certain privilo^^ wn^ no other interest in tho Colony enjoy"* o - Tho honourable morabor had stated thsit tho miners were subject to special taxftfon. Ho supposed ho moantthe duty pay a )>» upon gold, but that should rather be lookcl upon as a royalty than a tax ; it was merely the payment for the special privilege 'accorded to thorn. For instance, if timber Ho* naes wore granted, or the uso of Crown Lands for special purposos, the parties wo always required to pay for tho privilol'O, iv the same way ns miners wcro expi<c.ted to pay for tho privileges conferred upon thorn. The statotnont the honourable member had made that 2000 claims hud been sonfc in by miners on tho Thames goldfields, in tho ordinary manner, was only a proof that they would be fairly represented. The T»<«sing of such a Bill would have tho rfiVet. in thfl province he represented, of t'!«n« away from tho permanent sottlors tho electing of tho Snporintondont. and i»lncir«^ tho election in tho hands of a floating population, who might not remain in tho provweo for throo months at a time, and who had no permanent interest whatever in tho colony Tho population of tho gold fields of Nelson ws about 10.000, and tho population of tho othor portion of tho province war about 13.000, roany of whom h»d no votrs, and tho consequonee would bo that the mining population would bn able to roturn whom they liked as thoir Buponntendont. and tho permanent sottW* would not hi rVprowntorf. He wwy M therefore move tho amendment that the Bill bo road that day a x months. , . Mr Caiuwos said it tea. h 'V ™ ,, l ° W •npMort tho socoml reading of tho Bill, but not prooiwly on tho ««no B™™* w*™ honourable nwror h»d supported it. The

Basis upori'which'thS 'honourable ' aaember had 1 the 'Bill, ''wits "the- naturalright'of. those, who contributed' largely' to the , revenue to control the expenditure of 'that revenue; and also their rights of voting 1 in the election of that officer who held the delegation of, the Governor's power in 1 the management, of the goldfields. Ithadheenhispraoticenever to suffer a claim tp the natural right to vote to go unchallenged m that House, as he was not aware how any such right arose. A vote was a trust, and as such was to be exercised for tho benefit of the community, and not for the benefit of the individual himself. How any per«on acquired his right to vote he had not yet been told, unless he was to accept the dictum of a great man in England, who stated that every man's right to vote was based on the fact of his being composed of flesh and blood. He might o"serve thas the first question to be considered was not the absolute right of the individual himself to vote, but the right of the community to be properly represented. They were lapsing by degrees into the idea that the first question to be considered was the right and the interest of the individual, leaving out of the question altogether the far more important consideration of what was the right and interest of the whole, community. With regard to the second ground on which the honourable member had based his arguments in introducing the Bill, he thought that as far as it went he had taken the proper course. He did think those men who were entitled to vote in the election of members of that House, who made the ■ laws concerning goldfields, and enacted that the Governor should have the power to delegate his own powers to certain other persons, were also entitled to vote in the election of the persons to whom that power was delegated. Nevertheless he would take that occasion to observe that where such interests were concerned, he thought the Superintendent of the Province was the wrong person to hold the Governor's powers, for it was putting temptation into his way. The Sup rintendent of any province might be perfectly well disposed, but they knew very well that his interests were to divert tho taxation paid by the goldfields community to other purposes. He had the power by the present law to do so, and there was no way of preventing him, except by giving the miners a vote, who being a very strong body, would take care to see that the money contributed by them was not bo diverted, and would, it was absolutely certain, appeal to the Governor to revoke the delegation. His own opinion was that tho whole system of representation required radical and amendment, but as matters were then, he thought it only lair play that the miners should have the same qualification as othor electors. But there was a question in his own mind whether miners' votes ought not to be fused together all over the Colony, giving to the whole body a fair share of represetation, instead of having to add a mem ber to the House for every goldfield that cropped up. The great question had to be grappled with, as to whether the interests of the miners were inseparable from the interests of the rest of tho oommunity. If those interests were ueparate, give them a separate representation ; if they were identical, then lot them have the samo ropresentition. As a mattor of fair play, he asked them not to put a ban upon the miners — not to say that they were inferior to the rest of tho community. So far from being inferior, as far as contributing to tho revenue went, they were vastly superior to any other class, excepting perhaps the flock-holders. The only fair argument that he had heard to show that miners ought not to be entrusted with votes to tho same extent as the rest of the community, was that they were essentially a migratory population. Ho was perfectly ready to admit that ; but ho thought that experience hiul shown that their migratory propensities had been very much over-ratea. So long as their system of voting remained in its present form, it would only be fair play vn the holder* of miners' rights, who. ho contended, had just *s good qualifications ns .. L 5 voters had wh» wero hard I v able to those "/ ovflr their he(uhf thafc they SSw pitioV^ *« ** °^ iOM of Su P° r * intondents. , Mr Crkwhto* would Bupj.'^fc tho amendment, that tho Bill bo road that day six months. Ho thought that if any ftnrume^w wore required to prove that tho Bill should bo rejected, tho speech of the honourable member who h-ul just sat down furnished those arguments. He had had the pleasure on many occasion! to liaten to the nonowrablo morabor, and admirod tho ingenuity with which ht crossed the soont, and mado the worse appear tho better omijo t but ho hnd l /er hoard from th»t honourable member s speech whhh displayed those qualities to such an extent as the one just delivered by him. Ho congratulated the honourab'e member upon the skill with whioh ho had deported himself m » special pKvlor. Tho honourable member had told tho Houso that tho miner* ponnewicd tho oleotoral franohiso, nml that they could return mem-, bors to represent thoir interest* in tho Houso of Representative* and Provincial Counoils, and thon ho nr^wod that Iwantiso tho Superintendent wm an olect«d officer, holding the dolenntlon from tho Governor, tho miner* oußht to bo allowed to voto at tho Sunorintrndonoy election also. Now it should be borno in mind that tho Lntfinlaturo raado tho lawn controlling and affooting tho intercita of the mining population. If tho honourable (fontloman'B arjmraont would hold good, tho miner, ought to poimesi tho rwht of nominating and olwottnn tho Governor. The powers whioh the Govornor potioMcd under tho fcgUUtion «f tke Howe, i«d whioh w«ro

delegated to Superintendents of Provinces, were simply, executive powers;; .and ill would certainly be a novel thing for_ the ,.Ho|use t& .affirm that the mining population, , or indeed the electoral bodies, should &£' once proceed, ' not only to elect the subordinate \ officers, such as' the Superintendents, but the" Governor of the Colony also, and 1 that they should control both the Legislature and the Executive. He thought, therefore, the honourable gentleman's argument would go- for nothing. He could quite understand that when there was a general election pending, it was a very Bafe thing, arid a very politic thing, for the honourable member for Franklin— not for the Thames goldfields — and the honourable member for the Bay of Islands, to try to catch the popular vote at the Thames by the action they had taken in this matter, but he happened to know something about the mining community at the Thames.

The Speaker reminded the honourable member that it was not quite regular to impute motives to honourable, members in the House. Mr Creighton begged to be excused if he had transgressed the rules of the House, only the idea was so strong in his mind that he could not refrain from expressing it. If it was the intention ,of these honourable members to defeat the present Superintendent of Auckland at the approaching election, they would be disappointed, even if they succeeded in ) passing the Bill. It would have an opposite effect. The popularity of those gentlemen would not be increased in the Thames District by their action in this matter, for the Bill, if passed, would cause the present Superintendent to be returned by a still greater majority ; but he objected to increase his certain majority by special legislation. The facts of the case wore these. About 1,600 fresh applications were sent in to the Registration Officer for the electoral district of Franklin, and about 300 were objected to, he believed, by the gentleman to wbom the honourable member for Franklin had alluded, Mr Gallagher ; and he found, from a letter which he had received from Auckland, that only 175 of those objections were sustained. A Urge number, however, were disallowed on the ground of the informality of those applications. The honourable member who had introduced the Bill had told them that he did so because a number of persons at the Thames wished to have their names placed upon the electoral roll for Franklin, because, on acoount of some informality or other, they were likely to have their names struck off the roll, and he therefore proposed, by a pi' cc of special legislation, to place the names of all holders of miners' rights on the roll, to enatlo them to vote at the coming election for the Superintendoncy. He thought the House would be establishing a very dangerous precedent if they allowed this Bill to pass, and he trusted they would nit do so. He was surprised that tha honourable member for the Bay of Islands, who was designated the Father of the Houso, should have lent his groat talent to what he (Mr Croightou) conceived to be a very questionable proceeding, subversive of tho principles of Constitutional Government, and striking at tho foundation of representative institutions. With regard to the gentleman spokon of by the honourable member for Franklin as an "unknown person," he must say that he was a very old settler in the Province of Auokland. and was a member of the Provincial Counoil thore. It was the honourable gentleman's misfortune that he was not acquainted with him, and he was suro that, if he had known him, he would not have introduced his name into the dobate in the manner in whioh ho had done. He conceived tb.it this question ought to be set aside altogether until the general discussion on the Bill to regulate the representation of tho colony, brought in by the Government, took place, and he hoped the House would see the advisability of rejecting it. If the honourable member, Mr Carleton, proposed that there should be manhood suffrage, he would support him ; bnt he would not go with any proposition whioh would confer a special right upon miners to vote for the election of members of the House of Representatives and Provincial Counoils becaute they hold a miner's right. The minor's ripht, he maintained, conferred speoial privileges upon the holder not enjoyed by the ordinary labourer. He had nrhnthepaid for— a monopoly ofl»bouron tho gdWfleldß. He had groat pleasure in supporting the amendment. Mr Hauohton was sorry th» honourable contloman who had juat sat down had thought it neoosswy to impute I*™*"*"*; tives to the honourable member for ftaaictai introducing tho BUI, which hj thtmght wa.aiu B tone. Ctould the greatcsUdvooate of settled institutions have a w^t° "** against the principle of allowing those men who, by the mwers' rights, could vote for members of the How©, to vote /<*»•««• perintendents of ftwmcMJ ty .TtJIV 1862, the franchise hsd bwn nry justly qc* tended to a class ol mon who had done a creat de*l for the country, and who conifihutod a groat deal, dirootly and indirootly, towards the inaintewnoe of those M»m.rogd esUblishmonts whioh thoy called _ provincial invitations, and of whioh tho Sapenntpn. d«nts wore tho h^nds ; and bo contended that those mdividnas should hay« • vole© in the olootion of officers whoso 9 aUries they helped to pay. With regard to the Unputatioiondflavouwd to bo cast upon the honour, able member for Franklin, ho could ,s»y that honourable member had only done his duty in endeavouring to onabla tho most important part of tho population of AudiUnd lohavo* TOioe in the •Jootion of ftwrfjW magisftrtte, Hi oouW M ■«• th« diff««w

between, Jhe_,qu»liflpatioDS of on elector to r vote' at" Provin^al* Council jßleetionfct and tHoß'e :: of an 1 eloot'or ; to vote 'for House of Kepreaentative'elgotionß,, and if any hon. member could point' htm oktthet difference, ho wotlld vote for tte second feadinfe of the Bill that day six months. ' Id fact; it appeared to him ' that it had been a mere slip in the legislation that had prevented those miners to vote, and he hoped all thbie members who were in the House' when 1 that legislation took place would endeavour to set the matter right by voting for the Bill now before the Mouse.

Mr Dnxoir Bell said all those who took an interest in the principles ef representation; 1 ought to be obliged to the honourable members for the speeches just delivered. He could not understand how any one could support a proposal the certain effect of whioh would be absolutely to take away from every one who had any 'property or any stake in the country the power of determining who should be the Superintendent of their province, and to place such power into the nauds of the miners alone. There never was anything so inconceivably ridiculous aa the statement just made by the honourable member about Mr Hunt. If Mr Hunt had property -to the extent of L 40.000 or .150,000, they knew he' had got gardens, houses, and lands, and it was aa a' proprietor that he exercised his share in' the representation. It was perfectly true that miners ought to have their full share in the representation both as regarded the House of .Representatives and the Provincial Council, and every facility ought to be given to enable them to possess it ; indeed, there was an eleotoral district in the province in whioh he happened to reside, where it was now the boast of the miners that they would, at the next election for a representative in the House, be in suoh a preponderating majority that they would simply prevent the representation of any other class. Now that might of itself be held to be an evil, but it was not an evil without its remedy ; for when the member representing those miners made his appearance in the House, he would very soon find that he could not take any unfair action there, for he wonld meet the constitutional checks whioh were p*rt of their system. Honourable members must not suppose that there had been any want of deliberation or of intention in excluding the miners from voting at elections for Superintendents of provinces. He hoped they would reject this Bill, but that at the same time they wonld be prepared, as the Hon. the Postmaster-General had just said, to give their reconsideration to the subject, so that miners might, while having a proper share in the elections, not be allowed to swamp the interests of the other classes of the electors.

Mr Reynolds could not see that there was much benefit to be derived from discussing the question. He thought it was patent that the question before the House would never be assented to, as it could have no advooates, excepting perhaps a few mining members. He was somewhat astonished to find the honourable member for Mataura saying that it would be advisable to consider whether the miners should not have a proper share in the election of the Superintendent of the province in which they lived, as they had that already. la the province from which he came a large proportion of the miners had their names on the eleotoral roll as qualified residents, as leaseholders, householders, or freeholders. Suoh being the case, they were not placed at any diaadvantage, Any miner who had become a permanent settler in the oolony wou'd have a house of the value of L 5 aye&r, and could register himself for suoh. He disapproved entirely of speoial representation of miners, even in regard to Provincial Councils and to that House. It was a grand mistake that wm committed, and he hoped, when the Representation Act was before the House, such a Xsial representation would be entirely lished. and the miners left to depend upon the qualifications in the same way as himself: and other honourable members had to do. There was a very large population of the oolony — clerks in offices and in banks, and young men living in lodgings— who had no suoh privilege, and who could not exercise the f ranchite by paying LI a year for a license. Why should not those persons be allowed to vote as well as the miners ? They were far more interested in questions affecting the country than tho miners, who were ber« today and away tomorrow. Muoh as be reopeoted the mining population, and he did respeot them, although he did not respect their followers, who were, ho considered, tho corse of the oolony, be would not givo them any special representation ; he did not b«lieva that the miner, desired the privilego sought 'to be conferred upon them by the Bill On the contrary, he thought they would be perfectly oontent with the ordinary representation of the colony ; it might answer the purposes of some " loafer" to take advantage of snoh tax Act to get returned as Superintendent. He did not think that was advisable, and should be sorry to be a resident in the oolony if suoh » system wcro allowod to become the Uw of the land. He trusted that the Bill would be thrown oat without any great waste of time, Tho honourable member who introduced the Bill must know perfectly well that he would not have the feast chance of carrying it, and that ho would only have the support of a very few members. Mr Gai-laqhkr felt justified, as a repre* wnUtive of the mining interest, in supporting tho Bill. He thought the minor, did not require top mnoh wh*»n they asked to bo allowod » voice in the election of Superintendent.. It might be ssid to be % special privilege, but be contended thrill WMnot. He %WgaUtWMtiawU»*ttt

House took icWt6% ea.uaUt^witK*otMe^'%>Niiw * The mining intereßtj instead of being a =fluotnat-. ing interest; was a settled, one;, and. the great majority of the .miners had become useful settlers throughout (the colony. .The objection might also be taken that; , opt cial privileges had , also , been given, but it must , not be forgotten that, they paid .special taxes j for those privileges/; They were paying^ on. the average seven times as much as any other class of men resident in the colony. They Had' to pay LI a year for a miners" right, and whenever a rush J took place they had to follow it, and J were* obliged to pay LI in every fresh -province <- or county that they went into/ so that it might happen* that they would have to pay L 9 a year for mioers' rights alone. Beßides that, he had to, pay a gold tax, and he .considered that the House was in duty, bound to give the miner a right to vote in the eleotion of the chief officer of the province. That officer had the chief command of the revenue which was derived from the goldfields— a revenue which was often appropriated to other purposes than those connected with the development of the goldfields. He was sorry to say that to those officers was chiefly attributable the present' state of the- goldfields of New Zealand. If the Parliament/ had never delegated the powers to - the. > Superintendents,, but had placed the miners ; under the General- Government, the colony, would -be in a much more flourishing, condition. No doubt the statement would be ridiculed, but it was the faot that the position, of many of the squatters was to to attributed to the population which had been attraoted to the colony for mining purposes. Was it not owing to the energy of the miners, often exerted at the cost of their lives, that many of the goldfields had been discovered in the back districts of Otago, in Westland, and in Nelson, and that Auckland, from being almost bankrupt, had been, raised to be one of the most flourishing provinces of New Zealand ? If that House acted fairly, it would give the miners a voice in the election of the chief officer of the province. Mr W. H. Harrison said that although to a certain extent he might be said to represent a mining constituency, he quite agreed with the remarks of those honourable members who had spoken against the Bill. He oould not use any arguments that would be new, as the subject had been exhausted ; and although the mischief of the thing must be so evident to any person who took the trouble to enquire into its probable effects, he oould not allow the debate to close without expressing his opinion. Aa a rule, he thought it would be exceedingly impolitic to place speoial powers in the hands of any olass, with regard to the eleotion of executive officers, but still more so in the hands of miners. For the most part the mining population contained a larger proportion of intelligent men than any other numerous class, tut it was not the intelligent men who took the trouble to go to elections ; it whs the uneducated men, who never gave the matter a thought, but voted for the nearest storekeeper, or the man who oould spend the most money. He spoke from actual experience, and he was convinced that a great proportion j of the miners were not entitled to the fran- , ohise at all. ( Mr Swan, in reply, said that it would i only be necessary for him to make a few 1 remarks. His Honour the Superintendent 5 of Nelson had laid that miners had speoial 1 privileges. That was perfectly true, but j they had to pay specially for them He based < the claim he advanoed t not only on the con- 1 tribution to the revenue, but he was \ prepared to stand upon the right ; for he i contended that the franchise was a right c and not a truit, because every man in the « community who contributed to the ex- t penses of the Government was entitled c to a vote as an inherent right, and not c in trust for any one else. The members of \ that House voted as a trust, and not as a right. The honourable member for Newton, t with the usual courtesy of debate for which \ he was so famous in the Provincial Council f of Auckland, had chosen on one or two ooca- ( sions to allude personally to him, hut that 0 did not take him by surprise as the honour- 8 able member had announced his intention to 1 do so before he came there. 1,

Mr Creicmton rose to order. He oonld assure the Hou»o and the honourable gentleman that he did nothing of the kind. Be never troubled himself to think much of what the honourable member said.

The Speaker said th»t the honourable member for Frauklin did cot appear to him to be out of order. Mr Swan oamethero porfeotly prepared for that tort of thing from the honourable number. Hft (Mr Swan's} argument with reference to the delegation to Superintendent* was, that as it was fixed by law that the Superintendents should hold the delegation of powers over the goldflelds, and as they were elected by the popular vote, the miners should have a Toioe in their election. He oonld not see how tho argument could be strained to apply to tho Governor. The very foot of the opposition of the provincial authorities to granting that franohiae to tho miners, was an argument in favour of taking away the control of the goldfields from the provinoe*, and placing them nndor a general central mining authority, so that the money might be expended by tho authoritf of publio bodies appointed by theraselvos. What wa* the case in tho Provinoe of Auckland? The miners of tho Thames had two representatives in tho Provincial Council. The whole revenue appropriirtftrt by that body last Msiioa resulted from tns PW»P«rity and contributions of tho Thauws goldfields.

Every shilling of ifcj for; on < ~the f 3oih June, m 186$, the' -province was indebted, to the General Government, some LBpooorL9ooo, taking the published accounts as correct. >- . , ,i - „ Mr, Creighton. — They are not. ," , Mr, ( , Swan said they were the public accounts, 1 and that the very faot of 'the Provincial Council being' able, sixteen months after the opening of those goldfields, to appropriate so much money was proof po-,' sitive that it wai not only goldfields revenue which had boen raised, but that the whole revenue was a consequence of the prosperity of the gb'dfields. Tbat being the case, the miners who contributed that money had a right to vote at the election of their chief officer. He trusted that the House would assent to the second reading of the Bill. , , Question put, "That the word 'now,! proposed to be left out, stand part of the question," upon which a division was called for, with the following result : — Ayes 14 Noes .. ... 46 Majority against 32 ' Ayes : Mr Ball, Mr Barff, Mr Bradshaw, Mr Edwards, Mr Farmof, Mr Gallagher, Mr Haughton, Captain Kenny, Mr 0. O'Neill, Mr O'Rorke, Mr Parker, Mr Russell. Tellers :' Mr Carleton, Mr Swan. ' Noes : Mr Armstrong, Mr Baigent, Mr Dillon Bell, Mr Birch. Mr Borlase, Mr Brandon, Major Brown, Mr Burns, Mr Cargill, Mr Clark, Mr Collins, Mr Creighton, Mr Dignan, Mr Driver, Mr Eyes, Mr Fnrnall, Dr Featheraton, Mr Fox. Mr Graham, Mr Hall, Mr Hsnkinson, Mr H, S. Harrison, &fr W. EL Harrison, Colonel Hanltain, Major Heaphy, V.C., Mr Jollie, Mr Kelly, Mr Kerr, Mr Macandrew, Mr M'Lean, Mr Mervyn, Mr Munro, Mr Ormond, Mr Patterson, Mr Peacocke, Mr Potts, Mr Reynolds, Mr Eich, Mr Stevens, Mr Studholme, Mr Tareha, Mr Wells, Mr Williamson, Mr Woods. Tellers : Mr Curtis, Mr Rolleston.

The motion was therefore negatived, and the Bill was thenordered to be read a second time that day HhTmonths.