Clutha Coal Fields.

Otago Witness, Issue 497, 8 June 1861, Page 3

Clutha Coal Fields.

14. Q. Will you refer to the Appropriation Ordinance of 1859. Was the issue of £1000 to the Superintendent on account of the Clutha, Coal Fields, charged against the vote of £3000 for works in connection with the Clutha Coal Fields ?

A. Yes,

14a. Q. The sum of £1000 to the Superintendent, on 7th May 18G0, on account of the Cluthn Coal Fields, was paid at the Bank on the authority of the Superintendent's warrant : did you afterwards issue a cheque for the sum ?

A. Yes.

15. Q. You are the Treasurer of the General Ro;id Board and of the Otago Board of Education ?

A I am. But the Government has now taken the management of Roads into their own hands, in anticipation of an alteration in the law. In consequence of that, the balance that was in my hands in the month of October last was paid into the Provincial Account at the Bank.

16. Q. Will you produce the Road Board Account ?

A. Handed in accordingly. 17. Q. Where did you deposit the funds of the Road Board ? I find that the balance in hand sometimes exceeded £1400. From the Ist July 1859 to the 29th September 1860, the balance varied from about £900 to £700.

A. The Road Board balance and that of the Education Board were kept in an iron safe connected with my office and the Land Office.

18. Q. Did the Board of Audit, on any occasion since the 24th September 1857, when the monies belonging to the Provincial Account were first deposited at the Union Bank, count the cash deposited in the Chest alluded to ; and, if so, did you state to the Board that the monies deposited were monies belonging to the General Road Board and Education Board ?

A. The Provincial Account money and the Road Money and the Education Board money were severally kept in separate bags deposited in the Chest. The Provincial Auditors always asked for exhibition of the Provincial Account money, and it was exhibited. The Auditors of the Road Board and of the Education Board did not ask for exhibition of the money belonging to those several Boards, and it was not exhibited.

19. Q. It is understood from your reply that after the 24th September 1857, you continued to hold in the Chest monies belonging to the Provincial Fund Account ?

A. Sometimes ta a small amount, and I was empowered to do so by the regulations of the service. I produce copies of three letters of instruction in regard to these matters, dated respectively 16th December 1859, 13th January 1860, 26th December 1860. 20. Q>, I hand to you a statement of the Accountant of the Provincial Treasury, showing certain deficiencies in the balance of the Provincial Account at the Bank : do you admit that these deficiencies existed, and will you explain how they occurred ?

A. I have no doubt the Provincial Accountant's report is correct ; but with the exception of the sum of £1086 13a. 4d., that was in the hands of the Superintendent, I am positive, all the public monies not in the Bank were in the Provincial Chest.

21. Q. On some occasions monies were issued without the Superintendent's warrant for payment of wages of men employed on the

Public Works. It is stated by the Accountant that these issues were not shewn in your Cash-book until after the Superintendent's warrant had been obtained. This would cause a deficiency in your balance ? Can you point ont an instance where such payments have not been inserted in the CashWok at the time when the balance was struck ?

A. I wu.h to explain that when I stated to the Provincial Council's Committee, that the discrepancies between the Cash-book and Bankbook balance must have been owing to sums advanced for wages not credited, I, of course, alluded to any excess beyond the sum borrowed by the Superintendent, and had particularly in view the sum-of £1877 16s. lid. on 15th May, 1860 {vide Report, p, 6), reported by them apparently deficient on that date 5 for I was certain that if, in point of fact, there was so large an apparent deficiency, it must have been owing, not only to the loan to the Superintendent, but to advances made on account of wages which had not been placed to my credit ; and the Accountant's statement now before you shews that I was correct in that. lam quite certain that Provincial account money kept in the chest never exceeded £400 ; and I put in three letters authorising a sum to be kept to meet wages. Letters dated 16th December, 1859 13th 'January, 1860 26th December, 1860. As an instance where such payments have not been inserted in the Cash-book at the time of survey, I refer to the Accountant's Pass-book with the Union Bank on the 29th and 31st March, 1860.

21 a. Q. It is stated in the evidence taken before the Select Committee that the payments unvouched for at Invercargill account for the deficiency. I have examined the accounts in your office, and find the course adopted, in respect of the Invercargill payments, regular, and that you have taken credit for them before the vouchers were received.

A. My statement to the Committee was so far erroneous. I could not conceive how it was that the Auditors could have found a deficiency of £1800 odd. On the Committee asking me about it, I answered that if it was the case, I could not account for it in any way, except by advances having been made for wages here or at Invercargill, for which I had not been credited.

22. Q. I find from the documents you have placed in my hands, that on the 16th January, 1860, you drew from the Provincial account a sum o J£4oo by cheque signed by the Provincial Treasurer. This sum yon state was paid to Mr. Macandrew. It appears acknowledged by an I O U for £400 signed "J. M." and dated 16th January, 1860. There is a notation on the IO U, dated the same day, in your handwriting, stating that the amount was to be repaid out of money of next trip of" Pirate." A subsequent notation states that' £333 6s. Bd. Avas received on 21st Jan., 1860, towards payment of the 10 U, thus leaving abalance unpaid of £66 1 3s. 4d. There is another document in your handwriting, dated 23rd January, 1 860, stating that " Mr. Macandrew borrowed to-day £500 to enable him to retire an acceptance of Mr. Re3 r nolds\" You now state that this sum of £500 was repaid, but that Mr. Macandrew immediately borrowed another sum of £420, viz., on the Ist February, 1860, thus making up a sum of £486 13s. 4d. For this amount you state that Mr. Macandrew on the 20th February following gave a cheque on the Union Bank of Australia.

Referring then to the above sum of £500, 1 find that a cheque for the amount was drawn on the Provincial account at the Union Bank, on the 23rd January, 1860, and paid on the same day to Mr. Cheyne, a clerk in the Treasurer's office. Do I understand you to say that, when you gave Mr. Macandrew the cheque (which is signed by you as Provincial Treasurer), he said "Go yourself, or send Cheyne," and that you sent Cheyne ? A. I said to Mr. Macandrew, I cannot give it you, except by drawing on the Bank. He said then, " Go yourself for it, or send Cheyne."

23. Q. Out of what funds did you pay the loan of £420 to Mr. Macandrew on the Ist February, 1860? A. It was given to him out of the £500 repaid, and I think on the day after, or a day or two after, the repayment.

24. Q. Mr. Macandrew gave you a cheque on the Union Bank for the sum of £486 13s. 4d., dated 20th February, 1 860. Did the Bank pay the cheque on presentation? A. No. It was immediately presented an d the answer returned was "No funds." It was presented repeatedly afterwards, and the same answer given.

25. Q. Will you hand in the dishonoured cheque ? A. I have it not. Mr. Macandrew destroyed it when I obtained from him a cheque for £836 13s. 4d. ; but I have a copy of it in the handwriting of Mr. Cheyne, which I now give in. 26. Q. The cheque being dishonoured would leave Mr. Macandrew indebted to you in the sum of £486 13s. 4d. Now on the 28th February, eight days after the cheque was dishonoured, the deficiency of your balance according to the Auditors' report was £1037 Is. 3d., or according to the Accountant's report, £1010 9s. 5d., thus leaving a sum exceeding £500 unaccouuted for, besides the balance of the Road fund, amounting to £853 4s. Bd. How do you account for the deficiency ? A. Part of the £500 would be n the chest ; and it is possible that sums may have been advanced for wages and not credited. The result reported by the audit waa ascertained only at the date of their first audit.

27. Q- You state that the cheque drawn by Mr. Macandrew on the Oriental Bank for £836 13s. 4d. was dishonoured on presentation. Have you any decutnents to show that Mr. Macandrew was indebted to you to that amount ?

A. I had a cheque for £600, in addition to the one for £486 13s. 4d. He destroyed both when he gave the cheque for £836 13s. 4d. I give in a memorandum made at the time he gave the cheque last mentioned, and also a copy, in Mr. Cheyne's handwriting, of the cheque for £600. Copy of Mem.— Due J. M'G £486 13 4 600 0 0 £1086 13 4 Cash 100 0 0 £986 13 4 5a1.... f* 100 0 0 J £886 13 4 D 0.*...] 50 0 0 I £836 13 4 * The figures within the bracket are in Mr. Macandrew's handwriting. 28. Q. Did you retain any monies belongin,' to the Provincial Account besides the petty cash of about £400 ? A. I am not aware of having retained any Provincial money except the sum to the Su perintendent, and about -£400 of petty cash. There may at timea have been sums received and not paid into Bank on the same day they were received ; but the cheques for such sums, when paid by cheques, have been, I may say, almost invariably given by me to the Accountant immediately on receiving them, to be paid into the Bank.

29. Q. You state in your evidence before the Committee of the Provincial Council, that in February and March last you lent the Superintendent £400 and £600. The £400 was drawn from the Bank. Where did you obtain funds for the £600 ?

A. The £600 waa given by me to the Superintendent in cash. I recollect giving it him from the following circumstances : — I happened to go to his room that day to have a conversation with him on public business. I found Mr. John Jones with niin on opening

the door, and therefore immediately withdrew, without talking to the Superintendent. In a short time he came into my office in a great fluster, and said he was just settling a £9000 transaction frith Mr. Jones — that it was inconvenient for Mr. Jones to pay him the money that day — that he was to do it "tomonow" — that be needed £600 that day — • and that, if he did not get it, he would suffer a heavy loss — that' if I would give him that sum, both it and the previous sura of £400 odds would be repaid to me next day, when, to a certainty, he would be in ample funds. I believed his statement and gave him the money ; and, as it was to be repai J next day, and Mr. Jones was still with him, I got no voucher for it. He did not pay it next day, and stated to me some papers to pass between him and Mr. Jones had not been completed. This excuse he several times repeated. Some time afterwards, I caxinot- say how long, I got a cheque from him for the sum, dated 10th March, but that is not the date on which I received it. On that day (10th March) I observe a sum of £600 was received by me for" Educational purposes on the Superintendent's warrant ; but whether the £600 was actually given to him on that date I do not recollect, although I have repeatedly reflected on the matter since. I discovered that the Superintendent's cheque' and the drawing from the Bank of the £600 for Education are of the same date. But the impression on my mind is, that he must have got the money on the date of this cheque, viz., 10th March.

30. Q. Did you at the time. of these transactions with Mr. Macandrew keep a private account at the Bank ?

A. No, I kept my private cash in the office, and did so for the purpose of preventing confusion by having several accounts iri the Bank in my name.

31. Q. What amount of private funds had you generally in the office ?

A. There was generally a sum of from £50 to £100 of private money in the chest.

32. Q. Could it have been within the knowledge of the Superintendent that you had no private account at the Bank ?

A. I think he knew I had no private account.

33. Q. In your reply to query No. 21 on the deficient balances, you state that payments on account of Public Works have not been inserted in the Cash-b*ook at the time of survey, and you give two instances in proof. On comparing the Cash-book with the Accountant's pass-book, it is found that you were allowed credit for the two sums alluded to, with the exception of the sum of £212, which however the Accountant has allowed you credit for in his statement. Have you any further explanation to offer on this point ?

A. I referred to the two payments at the end of March in consequence of an answer I had received from the Provincial Accountant, but I find he has misunderstood the question that I put to him to enable me to answer correctly the Commissioner's query. I answered the question not from my own inspection of the books, but fromwhat I thought was the Accountant's answer, which he has now explained to me arose from a mutual misunderstanding.

34. Q. Produce the Education Board account and point out where the £600 to which yon refer will be brought to charge ? A. Produced accordingly. 35. Q. It appears from your statement that the loans to Mr. Macandrew outstanding on the 20th September last amounted to £836 13s. 4d. State when and how the repayments were made by Mr. Macandrew, and^what is the sum now outstanding ? A. I retained in payment of the monthly salaries for September, October, and November £150 0 0 I got a cheque from him by Mr. Logan, the Superintendent's Clerk, for... 120 0 0 And I got cash from him on the day of the Auditor's final report in October 400 0 0 670 0 0 Leaving a balance of 166 13 4 £836 13 4 He now disputes that balance and says he is owing only £16 13s. 4d., alleging that in the note made out by us, a copy of which I have given in, we had omitted to deduct the first of the salaries, viz., that for May, in which he is correct ; and that, besides the above sum, he paid me £100 since the date of the cheque, which is not the case. 36. Q. Will you refer to page 4 of the printed Report of the Select Committee, where you will find that Mr. Kilgour states in his evidence that you informed him officially that part of the Road Board balance was in the hands of the Superintendent ? A. Mr. Kilgour has misunderstood my statement. I did not reveal to Mr. Kilgour how matters stood till near the date of the Auditors' final Report, at which time the Superintendent was endeavouring to get some bill discounted at the Oriental Bank, as I understood. I told the Superintendent that it would be right then to tell Mr. Kilgour, and he consented to my doing so. I then mentioned to Mr. Kilgour that I had applied part of the Road money to make up the balance at 30th September. I may add that I requested the Superintendent also to see Mr. Kilgour, which be did.

Two days after the evidence in question, No. 35 to 37, was taken, Mr. M'Glashan made the following statement: —

"I told the Superintendent and also the Auditors that 1 had applied part of the Road money to make good the balance of the Provincial accounts. The Superintendent requested me not to disclose the matter to Mr. Street. Iso applied the Road money to afford the Superintendent further time to make good the sum in his hands. I Was then suspicious, and am now morally certain from his conduct towards me since the appointment of the Select Committee, that had I replaced the balance in his hands out of my own money, he would not have repaid me, but left me- to rank along with his ordinary creditors. It was on my application to the Executive that the Auditors of the Provincial Accounts were appointed to audit the Road Board account contrary to the usual practice (the Board being authorised to appoint Auditors), in order that all the accounts might be reported on by the same Auditors ; and it was arranged that their report on each of them should . be delayed till the whole had been audited and the balance of each placed in Bank. (Signed) " J. M'Giashan." 37. Q. Mr. Kilgour states that the Superintendent told him that he (the Superintendent) had only £400 of the Road Board balance, the -remainder being in the Treasurer's hands. Have you any explanation to offer on this point ? A. Mr. Kilgour must either have mistaken what the Superintendent said, or the Superintendent must have made an erroneous statement. He had no part of the Road money in his hands. In reference to the amount stated to be outstanding, £616 13s. 4d. was the balance of Provincial monies in the Superintendent's hands. - ,- 38. Q. The Auditors on the 24th October last found the full balance of 30th September 1860 lodged at the Bank; state how the deficiency of the previous quarter's account had been made good. • **■"', A. By the payments received from the Superintendent, part of the Road money in my hands, and the sum in my hands far* petty cash. - - -, ' i- 1" Note by the Commissioner, -vThe Road Board money was paid in on 24th October," so that it could not have been used, for", tne purpose „ slated ; and the petty ca^h remained* in tne \ hands of Mr. Street, ,'-""*-., :l r (Continvedon Supplenfent,) ' ' .' ,"