THE DAILY MENU

Otago Daily Times, Issue 23013, 16 October 1936, Page 7

THE DAILY MENU

BORSTAL INMATES MR C. L. CARR'S CRITICISM RIDICULED BY MINISTER (From Our Parliamentary Reporter) WELLINGTON, Oct. 15.

Criticism by Mr C. L. Carr (Govt., Timaru) of the conception of Borstal -institutions as places of punishment rather than of reform, and particularly of the food supplied to the inmates, inspired a lively debate in the House of Representatives to-day. Members witnessed the unusual spectacle of an attack by a Minister (Mr • H. G. R. Mason, Minister in Charge of Prisons) on a member of the Government Party, Mr Mason employing the weapon of ridicule against Mr Carr to show that the menu provided for prisoners of the State did not possess the shortcomings alleged. The discussion was initiated by Mr W. H. C. Denham (Govt., Invercargill) following the report by the M to Z Petitions Committee on a petition by F. Sampson, of Invercargill, seeking a Commission of Inquiry to report on the Borstal system in New Zealand. The committee reported that it had no recommendation to make.

Mr Denham said the atmosphere at the Invercargill Borstal Institution resembled that of a gaol rather than a place of reformation. Anqther report by the same committee presented by Mr Carr as its chairman comprised recommendations by the committee to the Government as the outcome of certain other petitions relating to Borstal institutions. The recommendations were made as the result of a visit to the Wellington Borstal Institution by the committee. The committee suggested that a substantial improvement in the diet of the inmates of ill Borstal institutions should be made, particularly by the provision of butter and fresh vegetables, that local bodies in collaboration with the Ministers' Association should be consulted when appointments to visiting committees were made, and that a re-classification should be - effected with a view to the segregation of different types of inmates so that they might be brought under the control of the appropriate department. M "Carr described the dietary at the Borstal as "ghastly," and said that although New Zealand exported thousands of tons of butter none could be given to the boys in the institutions as nb doubt it was considered an extravagance. The Invercargill institution was like a prison, with warders in uniform, the rattle of keys and iron bars. One could almost hear the clanking of chains. The whole idea of Borstals should be altered.

Mr Carr, complaining that the dietary scale at the institutions needed an investigation by the Minister, said the boys at the Invercargill Borstal grew fresh vegetables but were not allowed to eat them. " I take an interest in the dietary scale of the Borstal institutions," said Mr Mason, "and while it may have its shortcomings it does not call for the emotional outpourings and■-. hyperbole of expression employed by the last speaker. I also show an interest in the vegetables provided for the inmates and for the prisoners in the gaols. I want to tell the House that the prisoners and the Borstal inmates get at least two fresh vegetables daily. I don't know to what item of diet this emotional flow is applied, but I honestly believe that the prisoners and the inmates of our institutions are better treated as to diet than we get in Bellamys. That is not, saying much, I admit. We could do with very much more. ! "As far as I can see the variety of vegetables we get there consists of two potatoes and lima beans — yes, those lima beans—-and we manage on it. We are told that, while we are enjoying these marvels of Bellamy's, the prisoners are suffering misery. When a man comes under the control of the Prisons Department and walks inside the door of a gaol, there is no idea of punishing him. The honourable member need not preach to me or to anyone else under me in the department about the humanitarian treatment of prisoners. All that a man loses when he goes to prison is his liberty, and that, of course, is a good deal. He is not deprived of vegetables or anything else necessary for his welfare.' The Minister of Public Works (Mr R. Semple): You will have us breaking out of Parliament and into gaol. Referring to the question of the provision of butter in the menu of the Borstal institutions, Mr Mason said he would see that the inmates got their butter. Apart from the missing butter, they were well fed. They received vegetables, even if sometimes carrots were included in them. Mr Carr: They get carrots four times a month.

"That doesn't seem altogether a hardship," replied Mr Mason. "I have not counted the number of times I get carrots, but I would not be surprised if it was four times a month. I can't understand how carrots four times a month can evoke all this emotionalism." Mr J. Hargest (Opposition, Awarua) said the petition had been brought forward by a man who was a dissatisfied humbug. The individual concerned had obtained the position of visitor to the Invercargill Borstal, and once he had got it the authorities had been unable to get rid of him. Mr Hargest said he resented the reflections that had been cast upon certain officers at the Invercargill Borstal Institution. Those reflections were quite unwarI ranted. He himself had frequently | visited the institution, and was 1 familiar with the conditions there. He agreed that the building was not ' a first-class one, but the previous Minister of Justice (Mr J. G. Cobbe) had had alterations made with a view to making, it look less like a prison. The food was good and the boys came out of the Invercargill Borstal in better condition than when they went in. I The Minister of Education (Mr P. ! Fraser) said the Government i realised the importance of properly looking after those under its care. " Anything that can be done to improve the conditions in these institui tions will be done, but there is not I going to be any maudlin sentimentality," declared Mr Fraser. Opposition members: " Hear, hear." Pleasure at the stand taken by the Minister of Justice was expressed by Mr Cobbe. his predecessor in that office, ft was just about time, he said, that someone spoke as Mr Mason had. The inmates in the Borstal were taught useful trades and callings. It had been his experience, and no doubt it was that I of the present Minister, that some

of the visitors were nothing more than a nuisance, while others were very helpful. " The Minister's attitude has been quite incomprehensible to me," said Mr Carr, in his reply to the debate. " I suppose I laid hands on his baby. You can put a Tory in charge of a Socialist enterprise and he will brook no interference. In the same way I suppose you can put a Socialist Minister in charge of a Conservative Department of State and he will fight tooth and nail to defend it" . ...

The Attorney-general: I did not attack the hon. member. I complained of his lack of facts. Mr Carr said he had been charged with emotionalism. Tb*» chief emotion which he had felt during the debate had been one of mild amusement.

Mr Fraser: Do you think the Minister's speech was a defence of vegetarianism?

Mr Carr: I thought the Minister himself was rather a poor advertisement for Bellamys. Reverting to the subject of diet at the Invercargill Borstal, Mr Carr said the boys did not even get dripping, which was supplied for cooking purposes. They had to eat dry bread. The vegetable allowances were scanty and the meals for breakfast could generally be described as resurrections.

"I am quite content for the Minister to regard me as a crank," Mr Carr added, " if as a result the boys get a little bit of butter on their bread. If we have not shaken the tar out of the Minister we may have squeezed butter out of him. I have heard it said that when a Minister takes a portfolio the heads of his department hand him a box of inferiority complex. I hope the Attorney-general has dropped it in the waste paper basket."